Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa) - Responsibility Respons‬ · forum‬

Haruto

Joined December 2013

Haruto 2016-12-08T10:20:24+00:00

Deppyforce wrote:
seriously
when someone qualified something unusual and someone else sees it ''bad in their opinion'', you try so fucking hard to make it gets disqualified and must be changed to your own preference, even tho the thing you thing its bad is perfectly rankable and doesnt break any rules and is the mapper's original idea or intention.(there is no way to map ''correctly'' in this game anyways) in this case i know my diff is fine so i want to keep it but u guys want to make me change so bad just bcuz u havent seen this kind of name ranked before so you think its not fine, and im not a known or famous mapper, so everything i do thats not mainstream is always wrong, bcuz u bng ppl's opinion worth more than mine, so i cant disagree with u or this mapset will not be ranked cuz of my diffname and every gder here would blame me for stuff
when pishifat did his 'insanother' ofc its fine cuz he is already a bn at that time so everything he do is right, but im not a bn so im always wrong cuz i have no power at all
and vinxis too, hes famous so kamal's extra is also fine

im fucking tired of this community ill just change it to avoid more of this stupid pointless endless drama

We are not making any drama. This is how Community used to be, we arguing about opinions. But at least im not forcing you to change it, i just said. Its up to you, but if you changes it then it'll be more than good. Please examine my words more if you think that im forcing you.

Geez, why people are taking this kind of discussion into a whole new level lmao. Okay im out, im also tired to people that thinks the community are making a drama instead of discussion. And, last post of me in this beatmap's thread. I hope that this will be re-qualified sooner

.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-08T13:02:46+00:00

Updated hitsounding, combo colors and deppy's diff name :V

Kyouren

5,723 posts

Joined October 2012

Kyouren 2016-12-08T13:08:13+00:00

Deppy's Another is better but why Another? (It's anime lol) xD

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-08T13:42:35+00:00

And what? It's not problem at all

FCL

1,497 posts

Joined July 2014

FCL 2016-12-08T13:46:11+00:00

some people said something about the diffname of miniature extra, so let me tell why this diffname is totally fine.

As you guys could notice, there're a lot extra difficulties in the set. And my extra has a some addition in the form of "miniature" what means that there's difficulties with the small cs. So then a man, seeing this diffname will know that this diff has small cs. Pretty simple, right? The diff has word like "Extra" in the diffname as well, so there're no a problems here.

However I am totally fine if this difficulty will have diff name like "miniature another" , "miniature light extra" etc. This doesn't make many sense tho. Same goes for my normal extra, I like the idea with FLC's Extreme
now time for the reply

Yuii- wrote:
[FCL's Extra]

00:32:866 (1) - I am unsure about this NC being there, to be honest. It is introduced in a very weird way, where I (when testplaying it) got a miss as I thought it was a 1/2 circle. There is really no way of doing an inconsistent spacing stream for that, and the NC makes it hard to read as players don't expect the turn + the continous stream. i did some changes before, so now there's no stream anymore
00:35:836 (1,2) - Spacing here is counter-intuitive and completely differs from 00:33:460 (1,2) - as well as 00:34:648 (2,3,4,1) - . It might have been a mistake while you were moving things around, but it should be changed since it is very easy to misread. would like decline this, but actually this is true. changed
00:42:965 - I will be honest with you here. Spacing-wise, I truly believe you made a very good job compared to the other Extra difficulty. Rhythm-wise no, unfortunately. Ignoring what is in the song to map a full spam of 1/2 circles was not the best idea, to be honest. I would strongly recommend you to replace some of these circles to sliders as they would go along with the music much better. Also, 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the spacing here is incredibly high and unnecessary for the difficulty. from here is starting the most intense part of the song. The background of the song reaches the peak, same goes with vocal, therefore option like mapping by only circles looks like great idea. And no, 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - is definitely not overdoned, you just don't like this way
00:51:727 (2) - 00:56:480 (2) - Cannot really comprehend the reason behind these 1/4 sliders. These feel very off and add an unnecessary density to the map that is not audible in the song. It does not really feel appropriate to have them here because they do not make the patterns any harder, if anything, the might look like that, when they are not, really. Actually there might be mapped like 1/4 slider all things like 00:51:430 (2) - , these really sounds like 1/4, so it's totally fine
00:57:965 (3,4,5) - This pattern looks quite weird, to be honest. The whole emphasis is put onto (5) when the song is emphasizing (4) instead. Something such as https://imgur-archive.ppy.sh/VbWrdQz.jpg that might help a little more. Also, the current pattern kind of makes a zig-zag-y movement, but the music does not really support that. did some changes
00:59:004 (4,5) - Stack here breaks with the momentum you were building earlier, having to stand on clicking objects and them moving again at high-speed is not really a good pattern and very risky. nah, this doesn't break the movement, I did similar stacks for same vocal sounds, and it worked
01:04:054 (3,4) - There is some very noticeable inconsistency here that should be changed 01:02:866 (3,4) - 01:05:242 (3,4) - . i did this cuz I haven't heard the vocal there
01:18:608 (1,2) - Not sure if you want to keep this, it is way too exaggerated. just don't think so

slayed's reply:

[Slayed's Answer]

00:19:202 (1,2,3) - The angle and spacing used in this pattern is very different from everything else in this section. I do not think this was done intentionally as it is very recognizable. I would suggest you to place 00:19:648 (2) - in between 00:19:796 (3,4) - to make it more consistent as well as not to snappy compared to everything else. Even 00:28:707 (1,2,3,4) - is different from it as the distance from (2,3) is more big (although it should not be like that, since you are always emphasizing the sound on 00:29:153 - so it makes it weird anyway). w-w-what.. um.. thats the most senseless thing ive ever heard lol. if i will put it between 00:19:796 (3,4) -, that will mean that im going to emphasise 00:19:648 (2) - this beat like a lot, while there are litterally no strong sound.. the flow here is totally fine and fits the overall style of the map very well, so it shouldnt be a prolem if i keep it
00:42:965 - Section here is when things start getting a bit crazy. I get it is a build-up section, and, as such, you started to increase the spacing, that is perfectly fine, I actually support that. The thing is, it builds-up at a very weird spot and incredibly fast, when it should not be like that. For that reason, the 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - doubles at this section lose complete emphasis due to the spacing used previously. In my opinion, the rest of the Extra difficulties did a better job on this section by incrementing the spacing as the music gets more intense, but I will speak of them later on. tbh, i dont think that anything is wrong with it actually. music gets more intense, and so the map do. 00:45:341 - strong sounds here are emphasised buy the ncs and i think that its okay, since it plays nicely.. so id like to keep it again as it is
00:49:796 (4) - Ctrl+G'ing this slider (and re-arranging it later on, else the distance would be huge) would be much better as it would prevent a linear pattern which is not being done anywhere in the map. tbh dont really like how this looks if id ctrl+G it, so id prefer to keep it..
00:50:688 (3,4) - Stack kills the whole momentum of the section and it is also being inconsistent with 00:48:608 (4,5) - (although the spacing should/could be decreased because (5) is not really that accentuated in the background music) which is a problem. Consider unstack. idk how to put so the flow wont visually suck, maybe you have any ideas? :s
01:05:539 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - This pattern is way too much. its not, since the climax part of the song
01:12:074 (3,4,5,6) - Jumps here feel very overdone after you play 01:12:668 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - since the intensity is the complete opposite and the spacing of said pattern is the same. Starting the jump section at 01:12:668 (1) - would feel more natural. if you listen to the song, u will see that the intense part of the melody starts here 01:11:480 - so its actually more logical to start some jumpy things from there... 01:11:480 (1,2) - these are sliders because i wanted to diversify the gameplay and make it more interesting. if we are talking about emphasis, 01:12:668 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - these are emphasised more than 01:12:074 (3,4,5,6) - these because ncs and hitsounds. so.. i think that this moment is okay too, hope you understand my points..

extra

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Title:Responsibility Response
TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:FCL's Extra
Source:Another
Tags:slayed fcl wajinshu -bakari- deppyforce salsa vanucik5656 themefisto fanteer yaleufeu lama_poluna lama poluna tropical collab collaboration
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miniature extrra

osu file format v14

[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 46603
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
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[Editor]
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BeatDivisor: 4
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[Metadata]
Title:Responsibility Response
TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:FCL's Miniature Extra
Source:Another
Tags:slayed fcl wajinshu -bakari- deppyforce salsa vanucik5656 themefisto fanteer yaleufeu lama_poluna lama poluna tropical collab collaboration
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BeatmapSetID:495332

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Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-08T14:05:38+00:00

updated flc's diffs

Deppyforce

1,988 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2016-12-08T14:16:27+00:00

tbh i expect miniature to be cs 6.5+ but ok

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-08T14:17:23+00:00

i think current cs is great
did little upd for last diff
updated themefisto's diff

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-08T15:48:19+00:00

Double post

Last edited by Shmiklak 2016-12-09T14:43:03+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Ayana Hana

796 posts

Joined June 2014

Ayana Hana 2016-12-09T13:30:21+00:00

Yuii- wrote:
[LP's Extra]

00:04:054 (1,2,3) - Spacing is quite exaggerated compared to everything else in the intro. I appreciate you tried to give this pattern some emphasis, but it might be too much. As on me everything is good. I don't see anything bad.
00:08:955 (4,5,6) - This is not very recommendable as misreading is most likely to happen. You are not doing this pattern anywhere else in the map, so adding an additional reading challenge is not what you want to try. You could try to reduce the distance of 00:08:955 (4) - to make it more predictable. ^
00:48:163 (2,3) - Ctrl+G'ing the rhythm is highly recommended as it would follow the music better. There is nothing audible from 00:48:311 - to 00:48:460 - so placing a holdable object in to where there is nothing, is not a great idea. Also, considering the spacing from (1,2) and the fact that you are using a Finish hitsound on (2), the current spacing looks like an anti-jump. ++++++
00:45:341 (1,1,1) - and 00:56:034 (1,1,1,1,1) - and everything else - Muting the sliderends would be much more professional when you are doing these 1/4 patterns. ++++++
01:01:975 (1,2,3,4) - Similarly to what I have just mentioned, the spacing here looks inappropriate to what the music is providing. And, yes, the same occurs with the other two following patterns. ++++++
01:06:876 (2,1) - This is an anti-jump, by the way, and a very big one. It ruins the momentum you are trying to create with this pattern as a whole due to your 1/4 slider. I would strongly suggest you to replace that slider for a full triplet instead.
01:07:767 (2,3,4,5) - Mostly personal here, but it is very tricky to read this. It is most likely that people will read this as a full 1/2 pattern instead of this. Also, the full stack is not really the best option as they are three very distinguishable sounds, so mapping them as individual objects instead of that might sound more reasonable. ++++++
01:13:707 - There is a very noticeable sound in the music here, mapping this would be appreciated. ++++++
01:18:608 (1,1) - Why would you place a cross-screen jump at the end of the map, that does not sound appropriate and it is actually a very unwanted pattern. ++++++
01:19:648 (1) - Any reason for the whistle on the slidertail? Seems off. ++++++

map : https://puu.sh/sJxdl.osu

thanks yui~

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-09T15:07:58+00:00

updated.

Bara-

11,980 posts

Joined April 2013

Bara- 2016-12-10T15:40:02+00:00

Was the discussion about the diffname that big of a deal...?
Insanextra at least shows difficulty, but no. It's not a word and therefore shouldn't be used

Please note that I have an old (Taiko) map, which uses diffnames as Futsukashii, Muzoni. I talked to multiple QATs/BNs and they ALL said it was perfectly fine. Then why on earth, is it not allowed in a gamemode which much more leniency in diff-naming

Time to rebub

Shmiklak

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3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-10T16:49:06+00:00

∆o∆

Yuii-

2,501 posts

Joined July 2013

Yuii- 2016-12-10T19:48:23+00:00

Hello again!

Sorry to be that guy, but I never gave the "okay" to this mapset and my concerns did not get replied properly. Yes, I did see the PM you sent me yesterday, a couple of minutes ago, so I couldn't reply. I was busy, that was my bad for not checking my phone every 5 minutes.

Anywa, quoting the BNG rules:

If something you bubbled or nominated gets disqualified, you must not rebubble or requalify it, unless the community that wanted the disqualification and the mapper make an agreement.

Lama Poluma's answer are not well detailed- saying "is it good to me" is not a proper answer and does not help the modder understanding why you decided to do that.

Also,

wajinshu wrote:
[Waji's Another]

00:30:638 (4,5,1) - This type of linear flow with a very noticeable spacing with the same type of snapping does not quite work. I would try a different angle or something to make it better to play. for example...? - What do you think about something like http://i.imgur.com/g9pdIp7.jpg so it forces the player not to do a linear movement?

FCL wrote:
Yuii- wrote:
[FCL's Extra]

00:35:836 (1,2) - Spacing here is counter-intuitive and completely differs from 00:33:460 (1,2) - as well as 00:34:648 (2,3,4,1) - . It might have been a mistake while you were moving things around, but it should be changed since it is very easy to misread. would like decline this, but actually this is true. changed - This hasn't been addressed.
00:42:965 - I will be honest with you here. Spacing-wise, I truly believe you made a very good job compared to the other Extra difficulty. Rhythm-wise no, unfortunately. Ignoring what is in the song to map a full spam of 1/2 circles was not the best idea, to be honest. I would strongly recommend you to replace some of these circles to sliders as they would go along with the music much better. Also, 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the spacing here is incredibly high and unnecessary for the difficulty. from here is starting the most intense part of the song. The background of the song reaches the peak, same goes with vocal, therefore option like mapping by only circles looks like great idea. And no, 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - is definitely not overdoned, you just don't like this way - Of course I don't like it, it's overdone... cross-screen jumps aren't supposed to be used that way, but I won't go into too much detail about that pattern because it happens on every single ranked map. I still don't agree with you ignoring the vocals because of "the song reaches the peak". That is no reason for you to ignore every single other aspect of a song, that's not what a song is about.
00:59:004 (4,5) - Stack here breaks with the momentum you were building earlier, having to stand on clicking objects and them moving again at high-speed is not really a good pattern and very risky. nah, this doesn't break the movement, I did similar stacks for same vocal sounds, and it worked - Doesn't break the movement, it breaks with the momentum.
01:04:054 (3,4) - There is some very noticeable inconsistency here that should be changed 01:02:866 (3,4) - 01:05:242 (3,4) - . i did this cuz I haven't heard the vocal there - This is actually true, didn't notice it back then. I would still like you to change it because it ruins the momentum of the section, but it's up to you, feel free to leave it.
01:18:608 (1,2) - Not sure if you want to keep this, it is way too exaggerated. just don't think so - I do think so.
slayed's reply:

[Slayed's Answer]

00:42:965 - Section here is when things start getting a bit crazy. I get it is a build-up section, and, as such, you started to increase the spacing, that is perfectly fine, I actually support that. The thing is, it builds-up at a very weird spot and incredibly fast, when it should not be like that. For that reason, the 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - doubles at this section lose complete emphasis due to the spacing used previously. In my opinion, the rest of the Extra difficulties did a better job on this section by incrementing the spacing as the music gets more intense, but I will speak of them later on. tbh, i dont think that anything is wrong with it actually. music gets more intense, and so the map do. 00:45:341 - strong sounds here are emphasised buy the ncs and i think that its okay, since it plays nicely.. so id like to keep it again as it is - Quoting you: "w-w-what.. um.. thats the most senseless thing ive ever heard lol." it's actually worth quoting because I think the same about this . NCs aren't supposed to work that way, they are not supposed to emphasize sounds, that's not how you do it. Mapping getting more intense is exactly what I was mentioning and you ignored it completely. This section feels the same throughout every single pattern because they are mapped the same way... over, and over, and over again; even 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - has no sort of emphasis compared to your other (1,2,1,2,1,2) patterns because you are mapping the previous patterns with the exact same spacing. That is not how you create a build-up, but rather how you increase the SR of a map while ignoring the song.
00:50:688 (3,4) - Stack kills the whole momentum of the section and it is also being inconsistent with 00:48:608 (4,5) - (although the spacing should/could be decreased because (5) is not really that accentuated in the background music) which is a problem. Consider unstack. idk how to put so the flow wont visually suck, maybe you have any ideas? :s - Struggling with your current placement, but http://i.imgur.com/6AkxfHW.jpg could work, not sure if you like it, though.
01:05:539 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - This pattern is way too much. its not, since the climax part of the song - It is.
01:12:074 (3,4,5,6) - Jumps here feel very overdone after you play 01:12:668 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - since the intensity is the complete opposite and the spacing of said pattern is the same. Starting the jump section at 01:12:668 (1) - would feel more natural. if you listen to the song, u will see that the intense part of the melody starts here 01:11:480 - so its actually more logical to start some jumpy things from there... 01:11:480 (1,2) - these are sliders because i wanted to diversify the gameplay and make it more interesting. if we are talking about emphasis, 01:12:668 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - these are emphasised more than 01:12:074 (3,4,5,6) - these because ncs and hitsounds. so.. i think that this moment is okay too, hope you understand my points.. - I rotated 01:12:371 (5,6) - by 90° http://i.imgur.com/VrQeq3P.jpg so you can see that I listened to the song. Please, do change this, jumps should start on 01:12:668 (1) - and not in the current placement, that pattern is overdone as is ignoring the music as a whole.

Once you have applied/replied so all those points in a proper way, feel free to call Bara- and/or Rizia for a rebubble.

Good luck!

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,251 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2016-12-10T21:05:58+00:00

Yuii- wrote:
[Slayed's Answer]

00:42:965 - ok i 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - increased the spacing here a lot so now it should be better
00:50:688 (3,4) - yeah k i redid the whole pattern + 00:49:351 (2,3,4,5) - this
01:05:539 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - its not i copied this from yuitarks map
01:12:074 (3,4,5,6) - fukk!! u declassified my ultra ebin pp pattern so i had to change it sorry bara oh w8 its still 8 stars with dtez :__))
yui doesnt like dicks (and that suks) i also improved a e s te t hsi c s so thhis map is gay 2015/2015 owo/?b

http://nnikitin.s-ul.eu/2MyFKZpr

Kitasan

1,580 posts

Joined April 2015

Kitasan 2016-12-10T21:09:37+00:00

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Ayana Hana

796 posts

Joined June 2014

Ayana Hana 2016-12-11T08:03:16+00:00

https://puu.sh/sLv2P.osu
I change everything, thank you that has spoiled my map, Yuii- .

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-11T08:07:24+00:00

Waiting to FCL

Kyubey

osu! Alumni

3,097 posts

Joined December 2012

Kyubey 2016-12-11T13:11:08+00:00

A friendly reminder to stay on topic and keep the thread not loaded with blaming, it doesn't help the mappers.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-11T13:19:33+00:00

Kyubey wrote:
A friendly reminder to stay on topic and keep the thread not loaded with blaming, it doesn't help the mappers.

спасибо за чистку дядя кьюнбей
Updated Slayed's, waji's, lp's diffs

FCL

1,497 posts

Joined July 2014

FCL 2016-12-11T14:23:12+00:00

FCL wrote:
Yuii- wrote:
[FCL's Extra]

00:35:836 (1,2) - Spacing here is counter-intuitive and completely differs from 00:33:460 (1,2) - as well as 00:34:648 (2,3,4,1) - . It might have been a mistake while you were moving things around, but it should be changed since it is very easy to misread. would like decline this, but actually this is true. changed - This hasn't been addressed. ))
00:42:965 - I will be honest with you here. Spacing-wise, I truly believe you made a very good job compared to the other Extra difficulty. Rhythm-wise no, unfortunately. Ignoring what is in the song to map a full spam of 1/2 circles was not the best idea, to be honest. I would strongly recommend you to replace some of these circles to sliders as they would go along with the music much better. Also, 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the spacing here is incredibly high and unnecessary for the difficulty. from here is starting the most intense part of the song. The background of the song reaches the peak, same goes with vocal, therefore option like mapping by only circles looks like great idea. And no, 00:45:341 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - is definitely not overdoned, you just don't like this way - Of course I don't like it, it's overdone... cross-screen jumps aren't supposed to be used that way, but I won't go into too much detail about that pattern because it happens on every single ranked map. I still don't agree with you ignoring the vocals because of "the song reaches the peak". That is no reason for you to ignore every single other aspect of a song, that's not what a song is about. as you wish
00:59:004 (4,5) - Stack here breaks with the momentum you were building earlier, having to stand on clicking objects and them moving again at high-speed is not really a good pattern and very risky. nah, this doesn't break the movement, I did similar stacks for same vocal sounds, and it worked - Doesn't break the movement, it breaks with the momentum. 4 and 5 sound definitely same, I really can't being agree with that, it doesn't break the momentum cuz it has sense
01:04:054 (3,4) - There is some very noticeable inconsistency here that should be changed 01:02:866 (3,4) - 01:05:242 (3,4) - . i did this cuz I haven't heard the vocal there - This is actually true, didn't notice it back then. I would still like you to change it because it ruins the momentum of the section, but it's up to you, feel free to leave it. k, unstacked and changed spacing between them
01:18:608 (1,2) - Not sure if you want to keep this, it is way too exaggerated. just don't think so - I do think so. I don't think so, but you do think. (1) and (2) have mostly strong and important sounds in the song, so this spacing has sense in my opinion

osu file format v14

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Title:Responsibility Response
TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:FCL's Extreme
Source:Another
Tags:slayed fcl wajinshu -bakari- deppyforce salsa vanucik5656 themefisto fanteer yaleufeu lama_poluna lama poluna tropical collab collaboration
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301,276,71777,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-11T14:25:35+00:00

updated

Yuii-

2,501 posts

Joined July 2013

Yuii- 2016-12-11T15:26:08+00:00

Feel free to rebubble!

Good luck from now on

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-11T15:31:10+00:00

Ty ty

Rizia

3,114 posts

Joined January 2012

Rizia 2016-12-14T13:27:02+00:00

reb

Bara-

11,980 posts

Joined April 2013

Bara- 2016-12-15T14:43:45+00:00

Lets' try again!

Namki

1,285 posts

Joined November 2014

Namki 2016-12-15T14:46:14+00:00

регратс!

marcuddles

450 posts

Joined May 2015

marcuddles 2016-12-15T15:49:58+00:00

Finally requalified!
gj

Kitasan

1,580 posts

Joined April 2015

Kitasan 2016-12-15T16:01:32+00:00

Namki wrote:
регратс!

Kyuukai

Beatmap Nominator

1,541 posts

Joined December 2014

Kyuukai 2016-12-15T16:14:39+00:00

hype

Sieg

3,981 posts

Joined February 2012

Sieg 2016-12-15T16:46:19+00:00

wajinshu wrote:
Namki wrote:
ртс!

Haruto

1,823 posts

Joined December 2013

Haruto 2016-12-15T17:45:33+00:00

congrats on the requalify! i hope there is no more issue this time~.

Len

Beatmap Nominator

2,836 posts

Joined June 2012

Len 2016-12-15T22:14:24+00:00

so many gds ez mapping
pls do map ez only not ez ins and find gders for next mapset w
anyway gratz

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,251 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2016-12-16T05:40:47+00:00

Miniature Another is higher SR than the Another, not sure if it should be addressed but lolz

Battle

2,875 posts

Joined February 2014

Battle 2016-12-16T05:57:38+00:00

That's unfortunate

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-16T06:57:27+00:00

Logic Agent

483 posts

Joined April 2015

Logic Agent 2016-12-16T07:40:46+00:00

But it is objectively wrong... the term miniature means "of a much smaller size than normal; very small." In a mapping context, this word should be used synonymous to "light." You don't go Hard > Insane > Light Insane do you?

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-16T07:45:29+00:00

miniature means that the diff uses low CS and as I posted above, if you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's also fully rankable, so bye, I don't want to discus about actually right thing.

Logic Agent

483 posts

Joined April 2015

Logic Agent 2016-12-16T07:52:31+00:00

Oh, my mistake. Maybe consider renaming TheMefisto's Extra to "TheMefisto's almost Miniature Extra," since it's cs4.3?

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-16T07:53:03+00:00

Logic Agent wrote:
Oh, my mistake. Maybe consider renaming TheMefisto's Extra to "TheMefisto's almost Miniature Extra," since it's cs4.3?

no

Logic Agent

483 posts

Joined April 2015

Logic Agent 2016-12-16T07:56:00+00:00

Unlucky. Congrats on qualify anyways

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-16T07:56:38+00:00

ty
bye

Sotarks

Mapping Architect

3,553 posts

Joined May 2014

Sotarks 2016-12-16T10:20:12+00:00

forced

Nozhomi

Global Moderator

4,579 posts

Joined May 2013

Nozhomi 2016-12-16T14:34:33+00:00

Shmiklak wrote:
miniature means that the diff uses low CS and as I posted above, if you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's also fully rankable, so bye, I don't want to discus about actually right thing.

So Deppy's Another should be Deppy's Giant Another since it's CS2.8. Having some consistency on your diffname would be better.

Also

A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set. The mapset's hardest difficulty may use an appropriate custom difficulty name, unrelated to a username. Mapsets may also use a complete set of custom difficulty names that clearly indicate their level of difficulty to the player. Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.

It's not a full custom difficulty names, and using a extention to indicate the CS is clearly not useful in any case and not okay since it's not the highest diff here.

Also consider about being less rude when you answer to people, even if they could be wrong.

FCL

1,497 posts

Joined July 2014

FCL 2016-12-16T14:46:21+00:00

so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)

Last edited by FCL 2016-12-16T14:49:19+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-16T14:49:14+00:00

Hi

Deppyforce

1,988 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2016-12-16T16:26:52+00:00

FCL wrote:
so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)

yea dud same even with my old diffname

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,251 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2016-12-16T16:29:09+00:00

FCL wrote:
so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)

Tragic Love Extra doesn't misrepresent the difficulty the way that Miniature Another does. They're completely different cases, so I'm not sure how you can even defend your point that way lol.. It's nothing to do with popularity, it's the fact that it is not labeled properly.

Sieg

3,981 posts

Joined February 2012

Sieg 2016-12-16T17:03:55+00:00

FCL wrote:
so why we may see some diff names like "Tragic Love Extra" even if it isn't a highest diff then? These words have even no sense. Howewer when some unpopular mapper like me adds "miniature" in the diffname (it has sense and i said why before), people should say something about that?

I thought we concluded earlier, after 1st disqualification, but nah..)

Well.. other ranked sets cannot be used as justify but I tend to agree that in current case it's not really huge alteration and still current difficulty's name indicate its level of difficulty, minor addition about difficulty specific wont hurt in such huge set.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-16T17:15:32+00:00

I'm sorry for my behaviour, I'm just tired. Let's wait to QATs' decree.

Deppyforce

1,988 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2016-12-16T17:43:58+00:00

its fine so why not just keep it

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,061 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-17T15:27:24+00:00

So, basically you insisnt on keeping a difficulty name that is clearly causing a good deal of confusion even among mappers despite being offered to change it multiple times and referring to other ranked sets as the only valid point?

Can we get a clear response that'd satisfy both the people questioning it and those who were okay with the difficulty names? Referring to some other sets won't get you far.

FCL

1,497 posts

Joined July 2014

FCL 2016-12-17T22:20:25+00:00

Bakari wrote:
So, basically you insisnt on keeping a difficulty name that is clearly causing a good deal of confusion even among mappers despite being offered to change it multiple times and referring to other ranked sets as the only valid point?

Can we get a clear response that'd satisfy both the people questioning it and those who were okay with the difficulty names? Referring to some other sets won't get you far.

Okay, for the last time.
Miniature Another is a good diffname. Seriously. It clearly shows the level of the difficulty, even though some people cant agree with it.
First of all, its called Miniature due to circle size - its pretty small in comparsion with the other diffs. By the way, this cs is the smallest in the mapset. In comparsion with the another Another, Deppy's one, my diff looks really "miniature", so people, who are able to turn on their brains in the circle-clicking game will easily recognize the thing of the difficulty naming and the difficulty itself.
The second thing is that there is already a bunch of people, who agree with this naming. By people i mean all modders, who were involved in modding this map and also two nominators, who gave this set their nominations so it could be pushed forward.
I understand the point that this naming isnt appropriate for somebody. But since it makes sense and there are already some people, who are okay with it, why we are not able to push it forward as it is?

Doormat

2,050 posts

Joined September 2013

Doormat 2016-12-17T23:53:47+00:00

FCL wrote:
Bakari wrote:
So, basically you insisnt on keeping a difficulty name that is clearly causing a good deal of confusion even among mappers despite being offered to change it multiple times and referring to other ranked sets as the only valid point?

Can we get a clear response that'd satisfy both the people questioning it and those who were okay with the difficulty names? Referring to some other sets won't get you far.
Okay, for the last time.
Miniature Another is a good diffname. Seriously. It clearly shows the level of the difficulty, even though some people cant agree with it.
First of all, its called Miniature due to circle size - its pretty small in comparsion with the other diffs. By the way, this cs is the smallest in the mapset. In comparsion with the another Another, Deppy's one, my diff looks really "miniature", so people, who are able to turn on their brains in the circle-clicking game will easily recognize the thing of the difficulty naming and the difficulty itself.
The second thing is that there is already a bunch of people, who agree with this naming. By people i mean all modders, who were involved in modding this map and also two nominators, who gave this set their nominations so it could be pushed forward.
I understand the point that this naming isnt appropriate for somebody. But since it makes sense and there are already some people, who are okay with it, why we are not able to push it forward as it is?

you know, insulting people's intelligence because they can't agree with your logic is probably not the best way of proving your point. personally i also think "Miniature Another" is misleading because when i see the diff name at first glance before i even play the map i think "oh so this is probably like a slightly easier Another diff", and then it isn't. however, you're right in that "Miniature" does reflect your diff to some extent. maybe shmiklak can put the reasoning for the diff name in the map description? seems like the best compromise to me

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-18T04:07:35+00:00

Let me add info about every diff to description. It will be better, won't it? I guess when it will be added this discusion may be closed, right? I guess it's really best compromise way for us. Thank you loli Doormat for suggesting it.

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,061 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T08:45:41+00:00

First of all, there is a clear indication of the circle size used and all you have to do is to look at the upper-left corner of the song-select menu, there is no actual need to keep the difficulty name the way it is now. Secondly, the word miniature along with the comments in the description make the whole structure of the set excessively wordy, if something needs to be explained this way, chances, are, we don't need it on the first place. Besides, frankly speaking, people rarely read the description and often use osu!direct, which gives no opportunity to read the description at all.

In comparsion with the another Another, Deppy's one,

You're setting conetext here, those, who see the set for the first time have no context. They don't know how large/tiny/difficult the other difficulties are. If you are going for comparison here, you'd probably have to convince Deppy to use something like "Massive" or "Large" to go with their difficulty name.

Hope this explains my concerns better.

Alrighty, let's just take a few minutes to stop and think aboit this more. Here're a few changes that I believe to be quite important that I want you to consider before it goes ranked.

[General]

Timing points contradicting each other: 00:00:193 at this point in just about every difficulty exculidng E/N ones and TheMefisto's Extra.
Quality of the background image seems to be pretty low. Besides, it does not quite match with the mood of the song. You could have found something of better quality, I believe.

[Easy]

00:28:707 (1) - minor - keeping this ojne straight would give a softer transition between objects. example

I have a certain concern about Slider Velocity multiplier being set to x1.3 as this feels a bit too intense fo the easiest difficulty. Provided that there is a good deal of difficulties where using SV changes would be much more appropriate I would recommend to done down the velocity to x1.2 or even stick to regular x1.0 throughout the whole difficulty.

[Fanteer's Normal]

00:14:450 (1,2) - I would like to recieve an explanation on why the flow here goes in such a way. It could have been something more simplistic and players friendly, something more circluar, I'd say. example. Yet, you stick to this very unusual style 00:29:895 (2,3) - even later on. The question I ask you is why the flow goes rather tricky in the intro while the rest of the difficulty is fairly simplistic.
00:54:846 (1,2) - I would highly insist on (1) being a repeat slider. As to emphasise the drums starting with (3) and reduce the difficulty level. After all, hitting 5 notes after a 3/2 gap can get challenging.
Note: 01:11:480 (1,2) - same here.

[Yaleufeu's Normal]

00:37:915 (3) - feels a bit untidy as the circle touches the default skin's HP-Bar. Probably should be placed lower.
00:48:905 (4,5) - try swapping these two on the timeline by selcting them and hitting Ctrl+G, this should match the vocals and drum lines better.

Overall, I would suggest using higher DS, sometihng of x1,2 or even x1.3 as to make 1/2 and 1/1 spacing contrast even more and increasse readability of the difficulty. To my very subjective taste it felt clustered.

[Wajuklak's Advanced]

To my subjective taste overlaps like 00:21:282 (6,2) - while not being exactly noticeable leave a rather unpleasant impression of lustered patterning. Why not spread things apart? example. Another example of the same overlappy thing would be 00:33:163 (6,1) - this pattern.
Something similar would apply to 00:28:707 (1,2) - where the curve gets somewhat covered and feels a bit too difficult to read for a Normal+ difficulty.

00:51:282 (3,4,5) - the strong beats which are hitsounded with finishes and are supported by other instruments for some reason I fail to understand left unclickable. What makes this even weirder is the very similar rhythm mapped in a completely different 01:00:787 (4,5,6) - way a few seconds later. I guess this happened due to the lack of communication between collab mappers. Try to stick to some rhythm and follow it in both parts, so that this difficulty feels more consistent?

Overall structure feels a bit unpolished, but this is probably just me beingpicky. The main concerns I have are stated above.

[Insane]

00:25:143 (1) - I'd say a Ctrl+G on this slider would give a better flow. Let me explain: (1) and (2) are very similar, hence similar flow moves should work, and (2) has a clap sound, hence it could use a jump. So, here's the suggested pattern example

[vanucik's Insane]

00:56:034 (1,2,3,4) - 01:12:668 (1,2,3,4) - could you, please, clarify your logic behind the rhythm picked for these two parts? They sound almost identical, yet one uses 1/4 sliders, the other one goes with 1/2 ones.
01:18:608 (1,2) - could also use larger spacing as to accentuate the drums appearing on (2) and introduce the 1/1 jumps better

[Deppy's Another]

00:08:806 (3,4) - there is no clear indicaton of the flow direction change and players would naturally proceed and hit (5) instead of (4). A new combo would be a clear and very readable sign to warn about the pattern change.
01:09:994 (3) - just a matter of preference, but I would much rather have it stacked wiith (1) as to give some extra action to emphasise the clap sound (3) has.

[FCL's Another]

00:25:886 (5,6) - the clap sound here is stressed with a jump, yet, identical sounds at 00:24:846 (4) - 00:22:321 (3,4) - are ignored. Probably you could fix this inconsistency by adding some extra spacing to the circles. As the jumpy patterns on this clap thing continue throughout the map.
01:08:707 (1,1) - the new combos here feel excessive. A single NC combined with the low DS would make the 1/3 snap readable. Adding more NCs feels excessive.

[Slayed's Extra]

01:14:747 - feels pretty unnatural to have the clap here covered with an unclickable beat. Especially after taking into consideration the density of the objects and spacing you use in this part.

[LP's Extra]

00:45:638 (1,1,1) - excissive usage of new cmbos that brings extra HP and sort of breaks the intended gameplay experience. Just a single new combo on 00:45:341 (1) - and probably the final one 00:46:232 (1) - here would be enough.
Note: 01:12:965 (1,1,1) - 01:18:757 (1,1,1) - same applies here, I believe
01:08:509 (3) - yet, here, for example, a new combo would do great as to warn about the 1/3 snaps being used. Keep in mind that there are no other visible indications of it.
01:16:084 (3,1) - feels like this part lacks a jump as to accentuate the drums.

Wow, you never fail to impres me. I really enjoyed this difficulty.

That wraps it up on my end, I'd really love to see some of these things being replied to. After all, I am a part of this set as well and I want it to be as neat and accurate as possible.

Myxo

osu! Alumni

3,103 posts

Joined December 2012

Myxo 2016-12-18T10:55:13+00:00

It seems like there are some things worth discussing, so I'm taking this down.
I disagree with the diffname being an issue, though. It's a weird decision to use it (because the diff's circle cize isn't really anything special) but I am fine with it as long as the difficulty level is properly indicated.

Deppyforce

1,988 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2016-12-18T11:16:51+00:00

edit: w i gues il go with massive another

Bakari wrote:
[Deppy's Another]
00:08:806 (3,4) - there is no clear indicaton of the flow direction change and players would naturally proceed and hit (5) instead of (4). A new combo would be a clear and very readable sign to warn about the pattern change. ok fine fixed
01:09:994 (3) - just a matter of preference, but I would much rather have it stacked wiith (1) as to give some extra action to emphasise the clap sound (3) has. focusing on instruments so this kinda works better in my perspective

thanks

osu file format v14

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TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:Deppy's Massive Another
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Last edited by Deppyforce 2016-12-18T11:30:08+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,061 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T11:18:02+00:00

Wouldn't really call it gigantic, but if that's what you really want, sure, that'd sort of resolve the controversery.

edit: we'd still have to ask FCL to make sure they're okay with it.

Nozhomi

Global Moderator

4,579 posts

Joined May 2013

Nozhomi 2016-12-18T11:21:25+00:00

Sounds stupid to add something just to resolve a nonsense diffname. I would just remove "miniature", having it just for indicating CS is not a valid reason.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-18T11:22:45+00:00

It's your own opinion. We as mappers want to keep it because it shows diff's level

Deppyforce

1,988 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2016-12-18T11:23:46+00:00

it is also not a valid unrankable issue

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,061 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T11:41:19+00:00

Just because something does something, it doesn't mean that it should be in the set. Otherwise we might end up with difficulty names like bakari's rather average in size, pretty fast paced and relatively accuracy heavy hard with intense HP Drain which still indicates the difficulty yet does not make any sense whatsoever.

edit: well, at least the relativity is now here. the diffnames should make more sense now

Fanteer

483 posts

Joined February 2016

Fanteer 2016-12-18T11:46:28+00:00

[Fanteer's Normal]

00:14:450 (1,2) - I would like to recieve an explanation on why the flow here goes in such a way. It could have been something more simplistic and players friendly, something more circluar, I'd say. example. Yet, you stick to this very unusual style 00:29:895 (2,3) - even later on. The question I ask you is why the flow goes rather tricky in the intro while the rest of the difficulty is fairly simplistic.
00:54:846 (1,2) - I would highly insist on (1) being a repeat slider. As to emphasise the drums starting with (3) and reduce the difficulty level. After all, hitting 5 notes after a 3/2 gap can get challenging.
Note: 01:11:480 (1,2) - same here.

fix

update

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vanucik

484 posts

Joined December 2014

vanucik 2016-12-18T12:09:02+00:00

1. спейсинг увеличил 2. насчет слайдеров 1\4 в киае, звук там намного отличается от тех, что ты мне сказал, здесь они затухают(ну типо они пиздец разные, их надо как-то выделить), 1\4 лучше под музыку подходит (1\2 уже пробовал ставить, не очень хорошо заходит)

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FCL

1,497 posts

Joined July 2014

FCL 2016-12-18T12:14:31+00:00

I don't care anymore

Seaweed

376 posts

Joined November 2014

Seaweed 2016-12-18T13:20:45+00:00

here we go again.. So much drama for a diffname (which tbh is completely fine as desperate kun said) pls dont involve me in this drama

Kyuukai

Beatmap Nominator

1,541 posts

Joined December 2014

Kyuukai 2016-12-18T13:44:15+00:00

Bakari wrote:
[Yaleufeu's Normal]
00:37:915 (3) - feels a bit untidy as the circle touches the default skin's HP-Bar. Probably should be placed lower.
00:48:905 (4,5) - try swapping these two on the timeline by selcting them and hitting Ctrl+G, this should match the vocals and drum lines better.
fixed all
Overall, I would suggest using higher DS, sometihng of x1,2 or even x1.3 as to make 1/2 and 1/1 spacing contrast even more and increasse readability of the difficulty. To my very subjective taste it felt clustered. The reading difficulty is intentionnal.

AZERTYUIOP

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 46603
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 193,14450,33460,57222,69103,79796
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 2.3

[Metadata]
Title:Responsibility Response
TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:Yaleufeu's Normal
Source:Another
Tags:slayed fcl wajinshu -bakari- deppyforce salsa vanucik5656 themefisto fanteer yaleufeu lama_poluna lama poluna tropical collab collaboration
BeatmapID:1077992
BeatmapSetID:495332

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:3
CircleSize:3
OverallDifficulty:3
ApproachRate:4
SliderMultiplier:0.8
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"shmiklakgey.jpg",0,0
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riffy

osu! Alumni

8,061 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T15:21:09+00:00

The reading difficulty is intentionnal.

Could you, please, elaborate? I have not encountered a single Normal level difficulty where reading would be a part of the challenge along with the patterning. I fail to understand this. Wouldn't forcing reading difficulty as a part of the challenge make E/N gap feel too big?

Kyuukai

Beatmap Nominator

1,541 posts

Joined December 2014

Kyuukai 2016-12-18T16:55:11+00:00

Bakari wrote:
The reading difficulty is intentionnal.
Could you, please, elaborate? I have not encountered a single Normal level difficulty where reading would be a part of the challenge along with the patterning. I fail to understand this. Wouldn't forcing reading difficulty as a part of the challenge make E/N gap feel too big?

Well, I like playing with the reading of ppl, and the diff looks good that way, dunno why I would remap it with a higher DS.

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,061 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T18:25:34+00:00

Alrighty, as long as you're okay with the forced reading challenge in the Normal difficulty I have nothing else to add here. Good thing we've resolved it now.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,287 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-19T12:47:41+00:00

Bakari wrote:
[General]
Timing points contradicting each other: 00:00:193 at this point in just about every difficulty exculidng E/N ones and TheMefisto's Extra.
Quality of the background image seems to be pretty low. Besides, it does not quite match with the mood of the song. You could have found something of better quality, I believe. current one is fine :V it fits music as I told you before on vk
[Easy]
00:28:707 (1) - minor - keeping this ojne straight would give a softer transition between objects. example

I have a certain concern about Slider Velocity multiplier being set to x1.3 as this feels a bit too intense fo the easiest difficulty. Provided that there is a good deal of difficulties where using SV changes would be much more appropriate I would recommend to done down the velocity to x1.2 or even stick to regular x1.0 throughout the whole difficulty. Didn't change it. It seems fine for me and for others, it plays fine by players.

[Wajuklak's Advanced]

To my subjective taste overlaps like 00:21:282 (6,2) - while not being exactly noticeable leave a rather unpleasant impression of lustered patterning. Why not spread things apart? example. Another example of the same overlappy thing would be 00:33:163 (6,1) - this pattern.
Something similar would apply to 00:28:707 (1,2) - where the curve gets somewhat covered and feels a bit too difficult to read for a Normal+ difficulty.
00:51:282 (3,4,5) - the strong beats which are hitsounded with finishes and are supported by other instruments for some reason I fail to understand left unclickable. What makes this even weirder is the very similar rhythm mapped in a completely different 01:00:787 (4,5,6) - way a few seconds later. I guess this happened due to the lack of communication between collab mappers. Try to stick to some rhythm and follow it in both parts, so that this difficulty feels more consistent?

Overall structure feels a bit unpolished, but this is probably just me beingpicky. The main concerns I have are stated above.
[Insane]
00:25:143 (1) - I'd say a Ctrl+G on this slider would give a better flow. Let me explain: (1) and (2) are very similar, hence similar flow moves should work, and (2) has a clap sound, hence it could use a jump. So, here's the suggested pattern example
[FCL's Another]
00:25:886 (5,6) - the clap sound here is stressed with a jump, yet, identical sounds at 00:24:846 (4) - 00:22:321 (3,4) - are ignored. Probably you could fix this inconsistency by adding some extra spacing to the circles. As the jumpy patterns on this clap thing continue throughout the map.
01:08:707 (1,1) - the new combos here feel excessive. A single NC combined with the low DS would make the 1/3 snap readable. Adding more NCs feels excessive.
fixed everything for fcl
[Slayed's Extra]
01:14:747 - feels pretty unnatural to have the clap here covered with an unclickable beat. Especially after taking into consideration the density of the objects and spacing you use in this part.
and slayed

That wraps it up on my end, I'd really love to see some of these things being replied to. After all, I am a part of this set as well and I want it to be as neat and accurate as possible.

ty
EDIT: fixed all for lp

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-19T13:10:06+00:00

Still disagree with the idea of using the x1,3 multiplier on Easy since it is completely missing from Normals and doesn't feel crucial for the Easy difficulty. Besides, as I've already mentioned it creates extra difficulty and could've been easily avoided or kept for higher difficulties. Would be good to hear from somebody who has nominated the map previously commenting on that.

Apart from that I don't think there is much more to add.

Seijiro

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Seijiro 2016-12-22T11:32:27+00:00

I actually share Bakari's concern here for the Easy.
Moreover, I'd like to point out that a diff name is surely the last of your worries if we're talking about the highest diffs here.

It's obviously subjective stuff and you can always disregard whatever I say with that.
Also, the fact you're presenting such giant mapset has never made sense for me (I'm speaking in general), but well, there is no rule against that so I can't say anything on that.

Let's say few words regarding the maps instead, since it's obviously easy to say things without pointing out stuff:
- the section from 00:33:460 - to 00:38:212 - on mainly Slayed's and Waji's diffs is still too high with SV, making the map lacking proper expression of the song imo. They can may be Extra diffs but you can always make these details pop up even without necessarily applying big changes to it
- 00:00:193 - 00:04:945 - how is this part any different from the next section of the map? Isn't this an intro? Why am I having same identical things as anywhere else in the map? This happens mostly on Slayed's diff, but the other diffs could have been better too in this regard
- 00:37:915 (3) - part from this spacing inconsistency with 00:35:539 (3) -, on FCL's diff I also found something that isn't so great imo: from 01:01:975 - here you start following those great long beats in the background and it is fine in itself doing so. What isn't so good is switching suddenly on 01:05:539 - this stuff. Now, I don't like making assumptions on my own since I might be wrong here, but was that just to increase difficulty (aka, pp)? I'd rather keep the somewhat consistency of those long sliders till the end, since the song doesn't change there
- stuff like 00:14:450 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:16:826 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:19:202 (1,2,3,4,5) - makes few sense to me on Mephisto's diff. What I see is "objects placed on the playfield". Is that all? A bit more of organization would be appreciated as a quality of the map imo. This thing actually repeats in the whole map, not just the start of it, I just cut down the links.
You also do the same thing I said above for 01:05:539 - this part. You start using circles out of nowhere even tho you were following the long background sounds.
- on Waji's diff: 00:51:727 (3,4,5) - or 00:56:480 (2,3,4) - this triplet totally kills the movement considering all those finishers in the section, but no one said a thing about it yet. It's even inconsistent with stuff like 01:00:787 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - for example, where you don't use that triplet.
Also, 01:15:638 (1,2,1,2) - this pattern just kills the movement and goes against the whole map's concept (you actually don't make a huge jump out of nowhere!!! /sorry for the sarcasm, but I couldn't resist)
- in general, 00:04:945 (1,2) - these sounds were a bit ignored and mapped loosely by everyone in the highest diffs. I don't know how the situation is on the lower ones, but I was expecting something "special" for these sounds, something easily recognizable, not random slider shapes on each one of these identical sounds

I could point other minor things that would improve each difficulty a bit, but it wouldn't be a valid reason to not qualify it anyway.
My point is: I get the feeling the mapset is sloppy and some ideas do not fit with the song. Yes, it is subjective, but I do have the right to say this.
We're at a point in mapping where making something "rankable" is easy for most people. What I'd like to see is a bit more thought in everyone's works instead, since I'm kinda stuffed up with usual patterns and interpretations.

Also, you should really fix that naming now that I see it again. It's plainly dumb and it is counter-intuitive the way you named them: it feels like Deppy's diff should have been the hardest, while FCL's the easiest among the two.

As long as you can provide better reasons than memes I'd be glad to help out

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-22T13:35:49+00:00

I'm really tired from all these stupid discussions, so I want to give up. Thanks everyone who supported me, I'm sorry that I can't rank this map (I know you want). It's end. There won't be any updates or posts from me. Sorry guys ;w;

Zerss

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Zerss 2016-12-22T14:32:31+00:00

Ovoui

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Ovoui 2016-12-22T14:33:18+00:00

c'est vraiment pd ça

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-22T14:37:06+00:00

Just a reminder for you to stay on topic and avoid nonsense/spam.

We'll be here if you change your mind and need any help.

Seijiro

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Seijiro 2016-12-22T17:00:11+00:00

Shmiklak wrote:
I'm really tired from all these stupid discussions, so I want to give up.

well, sorry for trying to help =w="
Also, I checked only the 4 highest diffs so as far as I can tell it's not "your" fault, or at least not only yours.

If you need my help give me a call...

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-22T17:15:35+00:00

Guest mappers forced me to back :V We are here again haha

Kitasan

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Kitasan 2016-12-22T17:54:02+00:00

I'm glad.

Monstrata

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Monstrata 2016-12-22T23:00:17+00:00

1.30x multiplier on Easy doesn't affect difficulty that much imo. The base SV is really low for typical Easies of this bpm (0.60x) and the lower the base SV, the less a multiplier actually affects total slider speed. (0.60x SV x 1.3 = 0.78 = increase in 0.18 SV // compare it to say // 1.8x SV x 1.3 = 2.34 = 0.54 increase in SV).

You can say that as a whole, the map becomes "harder" because the SV (and DS) end up increasing, but the increase in difficulty is already warranted due to the presence of a kiai.

As for the SV change being difficult for new players, I don't think anyone has any basis to say that unless they've asked new players for their opinions. Modding experience will only tell you what is acceptable, and what most Easy's will follow. What is to say new players won't enjoy increased SV's? And is there a reason we shouldn't try to be innovative on lower difficulties anyways? Anyways, that, and SV changes on Easy are perfectly acceptable as long as they apply to an entire section of a song.

Just my opinion on SV changes on Easy. It's an easy fix though I mean, come on, it's an Easy lol. If the community can't agree on keeping the SV's, changing it to appease people isn't hard either. Remember, it's your map and you can do whatever you want with it. But it's also a BN's bubble, and they can do whatever they want with it.

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-23T01:43:27+00:00

It is fixed already :V

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-23T02:42:27+00:00

I prefer to think of SV changes in relation with the actual difficulty. Hence, for the target skill range of Easy diff a x1.3 is just as much of a challenge as such in an Insane+ difficulties for skilled players.

Add the BPM which makes even lov SV changes feel pretty tense and you can see where the concerns are coming from. Besides, both Normals lack that very SV change.

It ssure is up to the mapper but as a member of this community I have all the rights to ask "why?" and suggest things that would improve the consistency/playability of the set. It could work, but in my opinion it doesn't.

Sorry if I come harsh in any way, my only intention is to make sure we get a reasonable solution.

Edit: whoa, guess we'll take the discussion somewhere else or completely end it.

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-23T02:47:59+00:00

Heeey! It's fixed! Please stop!!

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-23T10:08:50+00:00

I am content with the changes being made to E/N/Adv part of the set. Leaving the rest up to MrSergio and guest mappers.

Just an additional thingy, 00:29:153 (2,1) - Insane - this definitely stands out and feels unwanted. Try lowerig the DS?

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-25T13:47:23+00:00

Bakari, yes

TheMefisto

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TheMefisto 2016-12-26T19:13:22+00:00

MrSergio wrote:
- stuff like 00:14:450 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:16:826 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:19:202 (1,2,3,4,5) - makes few sense to me on Mephisto's diff. What I see is "objects placed on the playfield". Is that all? A bit more of organization would be appreciated as a quality of the map imo. This thing actually repeats in the whole map, not just the start of it, I just cut down the links. Well, this is not "tricky map" or smth like this. Main idea is trying to follow music as much as I can. So objects with stronger sound spaced more than objects with weak sound, sliders in "long" sounds and etc. That's my point
You also do the same thing I said above for 01:05:539 - this part. You start using circles out of nowhere even tho you were following the long background sounds. Actually these parts are not the same. Here starts first part: 01:01:975 - and we have something like "finishes" (strong drum sound) in song every 3/2 ticks. Then, as you said, out of nowhere, song changes and these "finishes" places in every 1/1 ticks, that adds more expression. So I made jumps to emphasize this change

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-27T17:31:18+00:00

- the section from 00:33:460 - to 00:38:212 - on mainly Slayed's and Waji's diffs is still too high with SV, making the map lacking proper expression of the song imo. They can may be Extra diffs but you can always make these details pop up even without necessarily applying big changes to it — if i decrease the sv, it will just become weird, because sv will be way too slow in this part. 0,8x is more than enough. same for waji, i think
- 00:00:193 - 00:04:945 - how is this part any different from the next section of the map? Isn't this an intro? Why am I having same identical things as anywhere else in the map? This happens mostly on Slayed's diff, but the other diffs could have been better too in this regard — I have no idea of what are you talking about because its different from the other parts of the map if we just simply look on the patterns or sv

Kitasan

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Kitasan 2016-12-27T17:51:22+00:00

irc with sergio 2016.12.22

[code]
2016-12-22 19:12 wajinshu: sergio!
2016-12-22 19:12 wajinshu: can you help?
2016-12-22 19:13 MrSergio: that double pm
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: xd
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1054503 Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa) - Responsibility Response [Waji's Extra]]
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: about SV
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: 00:33:460 (1) - from this
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: section
2016-12-22 19:14 wajinshu: what can you recommend me to use
2016-12-22 19:14 MrSergio: well, the song there calms down quite a lot in comparison with the previous section, so using a slower SV would make a better rendering of the song
2016-12-22 19:14 wajinshu: i know...
2016-12-22 19:14 MrSergio: it was x1 before that part and it is now x0.85
2016-12-22 19:15 MrSergio: so umh... not so noticeable imo
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: wait
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: what
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: a
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: wait
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: hmm
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: 0,65х enough?
2016-12-22 19:15 MrSergio: let's say that it's also a bit AR's fault here, making it look faster than it is
2016-12-22 19:16 MrSergio: yeah, could work
2016-12-22 19:16 wajinshu: okay, and i put 01:01:232 - triplet here
2016-12-22 19:16 wajinshu: xdd
2016-12-22 19:16 wajinshu: thanks!
2016-12-22 19:17 MrSergio: I'd actually avoid the triplet lol
2016-12-22 19:17 MrSergio: but well, consistency I guess...
2016-12-22 19:18 MrSergio: the main focus of 01:00:787 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this part are finishers, and as such I would expect emphasis on them accordingly
2016-12-22 19:18 MrSergio: if you place a triplet it kinda makes all that vain imo
2016-12-22 19:18 MrSergio: taking that ^ as reference, 00:56:034 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - this whole thing should be 1 combo alone and without the triplet
2016-12-22 19:19 MrSergio: 01:15:935 (1,2) - a ctrl + g would really make a good flow here
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: o
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: really
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: right
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: fixed
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: :3
2016-12-22 19:20 MrSergio: 00:00:193 (1,2,3) - if I take this as reference and then check 00:02:569 (1) - this one, it feels a bit strange you didn't map the high pitch piano and instead mapped the grave piano
2016-12-22 19:21 MrSergio: basically, 00:02:569 (1) - for consistency, it should be circles
2016-12-22 19:21 MrSergio: or even a 1/2 repeat slider
2016-12-22 19:21 MrSergio: or something that uses all 3 beats and not just one
2016-12-22 19:22 wajinshu: i put circes here
2016-12-22 19:22 MrSergio: 00:27:519 (1,2,3) - small details, but there aren't even equally distant if you check lol
2016-12-22 19:22 they *
2016-12-22 19:23 MrSergio: 00:28:113 (3) - x88 y96
2016-12-22 19:23 MrSergio: and adjust 4 accordingly maybe
2016-12-22 19:23 wajinshu: okay
2016-12-22 19:25 MrSergio: 00:45:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - well, flow-wise, this is fine... I guess... If I look at it rhythm-wise I see that emphasis is placed on the wrong beats
2016-12-22 19:26 MrSergio: 00:45:341 (1,3,5,7) - these are the strong beats, hence they should have a bigger jump than the the previous object
2016-12-22 19:26 MrSergio: 00:45:490 (2) - yet this has a big jump on it (check top right corner of the screen for values)
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: aaaaaaa
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: my internet
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: rip
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: qwq
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: sorry ><
2016-12-22 19:33 MrSergio: http://mrsergio.s-ul.eu/FgwH4hGG.png
2016-12-22 19:34 wajinshu: thanks :d
2016-12-22 19:34 wajinshu: http://puu.sh/sXNHo/eb4f6bb708.png bad flow?
2016-12-22 19:38 MrSergio: umh, where is that?
2016-12-22 19:38 wajinshu: 00:02:569 (1) -
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: there must be consistency
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: with
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: 00:00:193 (1,2,3) -
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: so
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: i try
2016-12-22 19:41 MrSergio: umh... let's say yes...
2016-12-22 19:41 MrSergio: although it's not structurally solid (but I guess that's not really something you considered in the whole map so let's leave it at that)
2016-12-22 19:41 wajinshu: well, okay
[code]

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-29T13:53:05+00:00

- 00:37:915 (3) - part from this spacing inconsistency with 00:35:539 (3) -, on FCL's diff I also found something that isn't so great imo: from 01:01:975 - here you start following those great long beats in the background and it is fine in itself doing so. What isn't so good is switching suddenly on 01:05:539 - this stuff. Now, I don't like making assumptions on my own since I might be wrong here, but was that just to increase difficulty (aka, pp)? I'd rather keep the somewhat consistency of those long sliders till the end, since the song doesn't change there — yeah i fixed that inconsistency, but your second point is total bullshit. 01:05:539 - here starts a new section with very strong 1/2 beats, and thats why those jumps are there. it wasnt done for the pp, i was just following the music. maybe you could listen to the song?

Rizia

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Rizia 2017-01-01T14:07:23+00:00

re

Shmiklak

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