Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa) - Responsibility Respons · forum

riffy

osu! Alumni

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T11:18:02+00:00

Wouldn't really call it gigantic, but if that's what you really want, sure, that'd sort of resolve the controversery.

edit: we'd still have to ask FCL to make sure they're okay with it.

Nozhomi

Global Moderator

4,568 posts

Joined May 2013

Nozhomi 2016-12-18T11:21:25+00:00

Sounds stupid to add something just to resolve a nonsense diffname. I would just remove "miniature", having it just for indicating CS is not a valid reason.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,218 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-18T11:22:45+00:00

It's your own opinion. We as mappers want to keep it because it shows diff's level

Deppyforce

1,961 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2016-12-18T11:23:46+00:00

it is also not a valid unrankable issue

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,060 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T11:41:19+00:00

Just because something does something, it doesn't mean that it should be in the set. Otherwise we might end up with difficulty names like bakari's rather average in size, pretty fast paced and relatively accuracy heavy hard with intense HP Drain which still indicates the difficulty yet does not make any sense whatsoever.

edit: well, at least the relativity is now here. the diffnames should make more sense now

Fanteer

483 posts

Joined February 2016

Fanteer 2016-12-18T11:46:28+00:00

[Fanteer's Normal]

00:14:450 (1,2) - I would like to recieve an explanation on why the flow here goes in such a way. It could have been something more simplistic and players friendly, something more circluar, I'd say. example. Yet, you stick to this very unusual style 00:29:895 (2,3) - even later on. The question I ask you is why the flow goes rather tricky in the intro while the rest of the difficulty is fairly simplistic.
00:54:846 (1,2) - I would highly insist on (1) being a repeat slider. As to emphasise the drums starting with (3) and reduce the difficulty level. After all, hitting 5 notes after a 3/2 gap can get challenging.
Note: 01:11:480 (1,2) - same here.

fix

update

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TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
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vanucik

484 posts

Joined December 2014

vanucik 2016-12-18T12:09:02+00:00

1. спейсинг увеличил 2. насчет слайдеров 1\4 в киае, звук там намного отличается от тех, что ты мне сказал, здесь они затухают(ну типо они пиздец разные, их надо как-то выделить), 1\4 лучше под музыку подходит (1\2 уже пробовал ставить, не очень хорошо заходит)

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FCL

1,478 posts

Joined July 2014

FCL 2016-12-18T12:14:31+00:00

I don't care anymore

Seaweed

359 posts

Joined November 2014

Seaweed 2016-12-18T13:20:45+00:00

here we go again.. So much drama for a diffname (which tbh is completely fine as desperate kun said) pls dont involve me in this drama

Kyuukai

1,511 posts

Joined December 2014

Kyuukai 2016-12-18T13:44:15+00:00

Bakari wrote:
[Yaleufeu's Normal]
00:37:915 (3) - feels a bit untidy as the circle touches the default skin's HP-Bar. Probably should be placed lower.
00:48:905 (4,5) - try swapping these two on the timeline by selcting them and hitting Ctrl+G, this should match the vocals and drum lines better.
fixed all
Overall, I would suggest using higher DS, sometihng of x1,2 or even x1.3 as to make 1/2 and 1/1 spacing contrast even more and increasse readability of the difficulty. To my very subjective taste it felt clustered. The reading difficulty is intentionnal.

AZERTYUIOP

osu file format v14

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DistanceSpacing: 1
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GridSize: 4
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Title:Responsibility Response
TitleUnicode:Responsibility Response
Artist:Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa)
ArtistUnicode:赤沢泉美(CV.米澤 円)
Creator:Shmiklak
Version:Yaleufeu's Normal
Source:Another
Tags:slayed fcl wajinshu -bakari- deppyforce salsa vanucik5656 themefisto fanteer yaleufeu lama_poluna lama poluna tropical collab collaboration
BeatmapID:1077992
BeatmapSetID:495332

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riffy

osu! Alumni

8,060 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T15:21:09+00:00

The reading difficulty is intentionnal.

Could you, please, elaborate? I have not encountered a single Normal level difficulty where reading would be a part of the challenge along with the patterning. I fail to understand this. Wouldn't forcing reading difficulty as a part of the challenge make E/N gap feel too big?

Kyuukai

1,511 posts

Joined December 2014

Kyuukai 2016-12-18T16:55:11+00:00

Bakari wrote:
The reading difficulty is intentionnal.
Could you, please, elaborate? I have not encountered a single Normal level difficulty where reading would be a part of the challenge along with the patterning. I fail to understand this. Wouldn't forcing reading difficulty as a part of the challenge make E/N gap feel too big?

Well, I like playing with the reading of ppl, and the diff looks good that way, dunno why I would remap it with a higher DS.

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,060 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-12-18T18:25:34+00:00

Alrighty, as long as you're okay with the forced reading challenge in the Normal difficulty I have nothing else to add here. Good thing we've resolved it now.

Shmiklak

Elite Storyboarder

3,218 posts

Joined January 2015

Topic Starter

Shmiklak 2016-12-19T12:47:41+00:00

Bakari wrote:
[General]
Timing points contradicting each other: 00:00:193 at this point in just about every difficulty exculidng E/N ones and TheMefisto's Extra.
Quality of the background image seems to be pretty low. Besides, it does not quite match with the mood of the song. You could have found something of better quality, I believe. current one is fine :V it fits music as I told you before on vk
[Easy]
00:28:707 (1) - minor - keeping this ojne straight would give a softer transition between objects. example

I have a certain concern about Slider Velocity multiplier being set to x1.3 as this feels a bit too intense fo the easiest difficulty. Provided that there is a good deal of difficulties where using SV changes would be much more appropriate I would recommend to done down the velocity to x1.2 or even stick to regular x1.0 throughout the whole difficulty. Didn't change it. It seems fine for me and for others, it plays fine by players.

[Wajuklak's Advanced]

To my subjective taste overlaps like 00:21:282 (6,2) - while not being exactly noticeable leave a rather unpleasant impression of lustered patterning. Why not spread things apart? example. Another example of the same overlappy thing would be 00:33:163 (6,1) - this pattern.
Something similar would apply to 00:28:707 (1,2) - where the curve gets somewhat covered and feels a bit too difficult to read for a Normal+ difficulty.
00:51:282 (3,4,5) - the strong beats which are hitsounded with finishes and are supported by other instruments for some reason I fail to understand left unclickable. What makes this even weirder is the very similar rhythm mapped in a completely different 01:00:787 (4,5,6) - way a few seconds later. I guess this happened due to the lack of communication between collab mappers. Try to stick to some rhythm and follow it in both parts, so that this difficulty feels more consistent?

Overall structure feels a bit unpolished, but this is probably just me beingpicky. The main concerns I have are stated above.
[Insane]
00:25:143 (1) - I'd say a Ctrl+G on this slider would give a better flow. Let me explain: (1) and (2) are very similar, hence similar flow moves should work, and (2) has a clap sound, hence it could use a jump. So, here's the suggested pattern example
[FCL's Another]
00:25:886 (5,6) - the clap sound here is stressed with a jump, yet, identical sounds at 00:24:846 (4) - 00:22:321 (3,4) - are ignored. Probably you could fix this inconsistency by adding some extra spacing to the circles. As the jumpy patterns on this clap thing continue throughout the map.
01:08:707 (1,1) - the new combos here feel excessive. A single NC combined with the low DS would make the 1/3 snap readable. Adding more NCs feels excessive.
fixed everything for fcl
[Slayed's Extra]
01:14:747 - feels pretty unnatural to have the clap here covered with an unclickable beat. Especially after taking into consideration the density of the objects and spacing you use in this part.
and slayed

That wraps it up on my end, I'd really love to see some of these things being replied to. After all, I am a part of this set as well and I want it to be as neat and accurate as possible.

ty
EDIT: fixed all for lp

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-19T13:10:06+00:00

Still disagree with the idea of using the x1,3 multiplier on Easy since it is completely missing from Normals and doesn't feel crucial for the Easy difficulty. Besides, as I've already mentioned it creates extra difficulty and could've been easily avoided or kept for higher difficulties. Would be good to hear from somebody who has nominated the map previously commenting on that.

Apart from that I don't think there is much more to add.

Seijiro

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Seijiro 2016-12-22T11:32:27+00:00

I actually share Bakari's concern here for the Easy.
Moreover, I'd like to point out that a diff name is surely the last of your worries if we're talking about the highest diffs here.

It's obviously subjective stuff and you can always disregard whatever I say with that.
Also, the fact you're presenting such giant mapset has never made sense for me (I'm speaking in general), but well, there is no rule against that so I can't say anything on that.

Let's say few words regarding the maps instead, since it's obviously easy to say things without pointing out stuff:
- the section from 00:33:460 - to 00:38:212 - on mainly Slayed's and Waji's diffs is still too high with SV, making the map lacking proper expression of the song imo. They can may be Extra diffs but you can always make these details pop up even without necessarily applying big changes to it
- 00:00:193 - 00:04:945 - how is this part any different from the next section of the map? Isn't this an intro? Why am I having same identical things as anywhere else in the map? This happens mostly on Slayed's diff, but the other diffs could have been better too in this regard
- 00:37:915 (3) - part from this spacing inconsistency with 00:35:539 (3) -, on FCL's diff I also found something that isn't so great imo: from 01:01:975 - here you start following those great long beats in the background and it is fine in itself doing so. What isn't so good is switching suddenly on 01:05:539 - this stuff. Now, I don't like making assumptions on my own since I might be wrong here, but was that just to increase difficulty (aka, pp)? I'd rather keep the somewhat consistency of those long sliders till the end, since the song doesn't change there
- stuff like 00:14:450 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:16:826 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:19:202 (1,2,3,4,5) - makes few sense to me on Mephisto's diff. What I see is "objects placed on the playfield". Is that all? A bit more of organization would be appreciated as a quality of the map imo. This thing actually repeats in the whole map, not just the start of it, I just cut down the links.
You also do the same thing I said above for 01:05:539 - this part. You start using circles out of nowhere even tho you were following the long background sounds.
- on Waji's diff: 00:51:727 (3,4,5) - or 00:56:480 (2,3,4) - this triplet totally kills the movement considering all those finishers in the section, but no one said a thing about it yet. It's even inconsistent with stuff like 01:00:787 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - for example, where you don't use that triplet.
Also, 01:15:638 (1,2,1,2) - this pattern just kills the movement and goes against the whole map's concept (you actually don't make a huge jump out of nowhere!!! /sorry for the sarcasm, but I couldn't resist)
- in general, 00:04:945 (1,2) - these sounds were a bit ignored and mapped loosely by everyone in the highest diffs. I don't know how the situation is on the lower ones, but I was expecting something "special" for these sounds, something easily recognizable, not random slider shapes on each one of these identical sounds

I could point other minor things that would improve each difficulty a bit, but it wouldn't be a valid reason to not qualify it anyway.
My point is: I get the feeling the mapset is sloppy and some ideas do not fit with the song. Yes, it is subjective, but I do have the right to say this.
We're at a point in mapping where making something "rankable" is easy for most people. What I'd like to see is a bit more thought in everyone's works instead, since I'm kinda stuffed up with usual patterns and interpretations.

Also, you should really fix that naming now that I see it again. It's plainly dumb and it is counter-intuitive the way you named them: it feels like Deppy's diff should have been the hardest, while FCL's the easiest among the two.

As long as you can provide better reasons than memes I'd be glad to help out

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-22T13:35:49+00:00

I'm really tired from all these stupid discussions, so I want to give up. Thanks everyone who supported me, I'm sorry that I can't rank this map (I know you want). It's end. There won't be any updates or posts from me. Sorry guys ;w;

Zerss

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Zerss 2016-12-22T14:32:31+00:00

Ovoui

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Ovoui 2016-12-22T14:33:18+00:00

c'est vraiment pd ça

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-22T14:37:06+00:00

Just a reminder for you to stay on topic and avoid nonsense/spam.

We'll be here if you change your mind and need any help.

Seijiro

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Seijiro 2016-12-22T17:00:11+00:00

Shmiklak wrote:
I'm really tired from all these stupid discussions, so I want to give up.

well, sorry for trying to help =w="
Also, I checked only the 4 highest diffs so as far as I can tell it's not "your" fault, or at least not only yours.

If you need my help give me a call...

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-22T17:15:35+00:00

Guest mappers forced me to back :V We are here again haha

wajinshu

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wajinshu 2016-12-22T17:54:02+00:00

I'm glad.

Monstrata

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Monstrata 2016-12-22T23:00:17+00:00

1.30x multiplier on Easy doesn't affect difficulty that much imo. The base SV is really low for typical Easies of this bpm (0.60x) and the lower the base SV, the less a multiplier actually affects total slider speed. (0.60x SV x 1.3 = 0.78 = increase in 0.18 SV // compare it to say // 1.8x SV x 1.3 = 2.34 = 0.54 increase in SV).

You can say that as a whole, the map becomes "harder" because the SV (and DS) end up increasing, but the increase in difficulty is already warranted due to the presence of a kiai.

As for the SV change being difficult for new players, I don't think anyone has any basis to say that unless they've asked new players for their opinions. Modding experience will only tell you what is acceptable, and what most Easy's will follow. What is to say new players won't enjoy increased SV's? And is there a reason we shouldn't try to be innovative on lower difficulties anyways? Anyways, that, and SV changes on Easy are perfectly acceptable as long as they apply to an entire section of a song.

Just my opinion on SV changes on Easy. It's an easy fix though I mean, come on, it's an Easy lol. If the community can't agree on keeping the SV's, changing it to appease people isn't hard either. Remember, it's your map and you can do whatever you want with it. But it's also a BN's bubble, and they can do whatever they want with it.

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-23T01:43:27+00:00

It is fixed already :V

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-23T02:42:27+00:00

I prefer to think of SV changes in relation with the actual difficulty. Hence, for the target skill range of Easy diff a x1.3 is just as much of a challenge as such in an Insane+ difficulties for skilled players.

Add the BPM which makes even lov SV changes feel pretty tense and you can see where the concerns are coming from. Besides, both Normals lack that very SV change.

It ssure is up to the mapper but as a member of this community I have all the rights to ask "why?" and suggest things that would improve the consistency/playability of the set. It could work, but in my opinion it doesn't.

Sorry if I come harsh in any way, my only intention is to make sure we get a reasonable solution.

Edit: whoa, guess we'll take the discussion somewhere else or completely end it.

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-23T02:47:59+00:00

Heeey! It's fixed! Please stop!!

riffy

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riffy 2016-12-23T10:08:50+00:00

I am content with the changes being made to E/N/Adv part of the set. Leaving the rest up to MrSergio and guest mappers.

Just an additional thingy, 00:29:153 (2,1) - Insane - this definitely stands out and feels unwanted. Try lowerig the DS?

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-25T13:47:23+00:00

Bakari, yes

TheMefisto

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TheMefisto 2016-12-26T19:13:22+00:00

MrSergio wrote:
- stuff like 00:14:450 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:16:826 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or 00:19:202 (1,2,3,4,5) - makes few sense to me on Mephisto's diff. What I see is "objects placed on the playfield". Is that all? A bit more of organization would be appreciated as a quality of the map imo. This thing actually repeats in the whole map, not just the start of it, I just cut down the links. Well, this is not "tricky map" or smth like this. Main idea is trying to follow music as much as I can. So objects with stronger sound spaced more than objects with weak sound, sliders in "long" sounds and etc. That's my point
You also do the same thing I said above for 01:05:539 - this part. You start using circles out of nowhere even tho you were following the long background sounds. Actually these parts are not the same. Here starts first part: 01:01:975 - and we have something like "finishes" (strong drum sound) in song every 3/2 ticks. Then, as you said, out of nowhere, song changes and these "finishes" places in every 1/1 ticks, that adds more expression. So I made jumps to emphasize this change

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-27T17:31:18+00:00

- the section from 00:33:460 - to 00:38:212 - on mainly Slayed's and Waji's diffs is still too high with SV, making the map lacking proper expression of the song imo. They can may be Extra diffs but you can always make these details pop up even without necessarily applying big changes to it — if i decrease the sv, it will just become weird, because sv will be way too slow in this part. 0,8x is more than enough. same for waji, i think
- 00:00:193 - 00:04:945 - how is this part any different from the next section of the map? Isn't this an intro? Why am I having same identical things as anywhere else in the map? This happens mostly on Slayed's diff, but the other diffs could have been better too in this regard — I have no idea of what are you talking about because its different from the other parts of the map if we just simply look on the patterns or sv

wajinshu

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wajinshu 2016-12-27T17:51:22+00:00

irc with sergio 2016.12.22

[code]
2016-12-22 19:12 wajinshu: sergio!
2016-12-22 19:12 wajinshu: can you help?
2016-12-22 19:13 MrSergio: that double pm
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: xd
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1054503 Izumi Akazawa (CV. Madoka Yonezawa) - Responsibility Response [Waji's Extra]]
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: about SV
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: 00:33:460 (1) - from this
2016-12-22 19:13 wajinshu: section
2016-12-22 19:14 wajinshu: what can you recommend me to use
2016-12-22 19:14 MrSergio: well, the song there calms down quite a lot in comparison with the previous section, so using a slower SV would make a better rendering of the song
2016-12-22 19:14 wajinshu: i know...
2016-12-22 19:14 MrSergio: it was x1 before that part and it is now x0.85
2016-12-22 19:15 MrSergio: so umh... not so noticeable imo
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: wait
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: what
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: a
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: wait
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: hmm
2016-12-22 19:15 wajinshu: 0,65х enough?
2016-12-22 19:15 MrSergio: let's say that it's also a bit AR's fault here, making it look faster than it is
2016-12-22 19:16 MrSergio: yeah, could work
2016-12-22 19:16 wajinshu: okay, and i put 01:01:232 - triplet here
2016-12-22 19:16 wajinshu: xdd
2016-12-22 19:16 wajinshu: thanks!
2016-12-22 19:17 MrSergio: I'd actually avoid the triplet lol
2016-12-22 19:17 MrSergio: but well, consistency I guess...
2016-12-22 19:18 MrSergio: the main focus of 01:00:787 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this part are finishers, and as such I would expect emphasis on them accordingly
2016-12-22 19:18 MrSergio: if you place a triplet it kinda makes all that vain imo
2016-12-22 19:18 MrSergio: taking that ^ as reference, 00:56:034 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - this whole thing should be 1 combo alone and without the triplet
2016-12-22 19:19 MrSergio: 01:15:935 (1,2) - a ctrl + g would really make a good flow here
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: o
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: really
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: right
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: fixed
2016-12-22 19:19 wajinshu: :3
2016-12-22 19:20 MrSergio: 00:00:193 (1,2,3) - if I take this as reference and then check 00:02:569 (1) - this one, it feels a bit strange you didn't map the high pitch piano and instead mapped the grave piano
2016-12-22 19:21 MrSergio: basically, 00:02:569 (1) - for consistency, it should be circles
2016-12-22 19:21 MrSergio: or even a 1/2 repeat slider
2016-12-22 19:21 MrSergio: or something that uses all 3 beats and not just one
2016-12-22 19:22 wajinshu: i put circes here
2016-12-22 19:22 MrSergio: 00:27:519 (1,2,3) - small details, but there aren't even equally distant if you check lol
2016-12-22 19:22 they *
2016-12-22 19:23 MrSergio: 00:28:113 (3) - x88 y96
2016-12-22 19:23 MrSergio: and adjust 4 accordingly maybe
2016-12-22 19:23 wajinshu: okay
2016-12-22 19:25 MrSergio: 00:45:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - well, flow-wise, this is fine... I guess... If I look at it rhythm-wise I see that emphasis is placed on the wrong beats
2016-12-22 19:26 MrSergio: 00:45:341 (1,3,5,7) - these are the strong beats, hence they should have a bigger jump than the the previous object
2016-12-22 19:26 MrSergio: 00:45:490 (2) - yet this has a big jump on it (check top right corner of the screen for values)
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: aaaaaaa
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: my internet
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: rip
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: qwq
2016-12-22 19:33 wajinshu: sorry ><
2016-12-22 19:33 MrSergio: http://mrsergio.s-ul.eu/FgwH4hGG.png
2016-12-22 19:34 wajinshu: thanks :d
2016-12-22 19:34 wajinshu: http://puu.sh/sXNHo/eb4f6bb708.png bad flow?
2016-12-22 19:38 MrSergio: umh, where is that?
2016-12-22 19:38 wajinshu: 00:02:569 (1) -
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: there must be consistency
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: with
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: 00:00:193 (1,2,3) -
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: so
2016-12-22 19:39 wajinshu: i try
2016-12-22 19:41 MrSergio: umh... let's say yes...
2016-12-22 19:41 MrSergio: although it's not structurally solid (but I guess that's not really something you considered in the whole map so let's leave it at that)
2016-12-22 19:41 wajinshu: well, okay
[code]

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2016-12-29T13:53:05+00:00

- 00:37:915 (3) - part from this spacing inconsistency with 00:35:539 (3) -, on FCL's diff I also found something that isn't so great imo: from 01:01:975 - here you start following those great long beats in the background and it is fine in itself doing so. What isn't so good is switching suddenly on 01:05:539 - this stuff. Now, I don't like making assumptions on my own since I might be wrong here, but was that just to increase difficulty (aka, pp)? I'd rather keep the somewhat consistency of those long sliders till the end, since the song doesn't change there — yeah i fixed that inconsistency, but your second point is total bullshit. 01:05:539 - here starts a new section with very strong 1/2 beats, and thats why those jumps are there. it wasnt done for the pp, i was just following the music. maybe you could listen to the song?

Rizia

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Rizia 2017-01-01T14:07:23+00:00

re

Shmiklak

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Shmiklak 2017-01-01T14:13:07+00:00

Ty ty