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Aimer - words

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CaffeAmericano
615 posts
Joined January 2015
CaffeAmericano

Monstrata wrote:

Noob modder...
Hi Monstrata

M4M from your queue

Rhetoric

  • 01:21:424 (1,2,3) - I think the emphasis for the vocal could be stronger. Right now, DS is about the same until 01:21:853 (2,3) - , and flow is circular in same direction since 01:19:710 (1) - . Only shape and NC seem to distinguish.

    01:28:282 (1) - This flow break seem to stand out little too much. How about maintaining circular flow while still giving a sharp turn for emphasis like ( http://puu.sh/qHg4i/06bb63c079.jpg )

    02:00:205 (1) - This NC doesn’t look necessary. This is only NC in 1st kiai not in the downbeat. There’s one in 2nd kiai too ( 03:23:990 (1) - ), but I guess it’s for reading

    03:11:562 (3,6,7,8,9,1) - 3 could blanket the stream better

    03:14:133 (5,6) - 03:14:562 (1,2) - These being basically copy+paste seem to take away emphasis at the downbeat. I think you did it more effectively at the 1st kiai 01:48:419 (5,6,1,2) -. Consider moving 03:14:348 (6) - elsewhere.

    03:25:276 (3) - Apologies for pixel mod, but moving this toward bottom right will make the pentagon ( 03:24:419 (3,4,1,2,3) - ) equilateral and help avoid the overlap with 03:24:205 (2,3) -

    04:14:133 (4) - I’m grumpy that strong vocal at 04:14:133 - doesn’t seem to be emphasized. Something like ( http://puu.sh/qHhbL/965b46a0f8.jpg ) could have been done, and I’m sure you can think of something even cooler

    04:26:562 - Is the break start intentionally offset from the downbeat?
The keyboard is mightier than the sword :^)

The map is really neat. Pls excuse my nazi modding

Good luck~
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

M4M

  • [Rhetoric]
  1. 00:41:996 (1) - 00:48:853 (1) - seems like you are following vocal at this part so end the slider at 00:42:853 - or 00:42:424 - would sound better Ending here also follows the vocals xD.
  2. 00:41:996 (1) - 00:48:853 (1) - 00:55:710 (1,2) - different hitsound usage, for intention lol? Fixed
  3. 02:13:276 (1,2) - not stacking?Nah. I want it to be arranged like this for some variety. It's a very small spacing change anyways.
  4. 02:19:919 (6) - imo move to 02:20:348 - fit more to the vocal Prefer the current rhythm. I want to emphasize instrumentals here.
  5. 02:30:633 - the 1/1 gap here plays weird cuz the spacing is similar to some 1/2 gap, might cause misread True. Fixed.
  6. 03:03:205 (4,5) - you know the spacing here plays rly awkward lo Fixed
  7. 03:25:490 (4,5) - imo the spacing here shouldnt be dat big cuz the music isnt sound that intense here Fixed
  8. 03:29:348 (7,8,9) - different triplet usage seems inconsistent to me :p I like this actually xD. The second one is spaced because its like, exiting out of the pattern. Like, i think spacing out triplets helps to emphasize them more and I want to create a contrast between the rhythms of the two triplets,. The hitsound reflects this hopefully
  9. 04:17:990 (1,3) - nazi stack lol Fixed
  10. 04:26:562 - unsnapped break timeFixed
:)

CaffeAmericano wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Noob modder...
Hi Monstrata

M4M from your queue

Rhetoric

  • 01:21:424 (1,2,3) - I think the emphasis for the vocal could be stronger. Right now, DS is about the same until 01:21:853 (2,3) - , and flow is circular in same direction since 01:19:710 (1) - . Only shape and NC seem to distinguish. I think the spacing reflects the song pretty well here tho.

    01:28:282 (1) - This flow break seem to stand out little too much. How about maintaining circular flow while still giving a sharp turn for emphasis like ( http://puu.sh/qHg4i/06bb63c079.jpg ) Mmm... I disagree. I think the flowbreak is barely noticeable, because the direction of the player's movement is still realy similar. It's just a visual flowbreak, but play-wise it shouldn't be too different from the other 120 degree inward-flowing patterns i use.

    02:00:205 (1) - This NC doesn’t look necessary. This is only NC in 1st kiai not in the downbeat. There’s one in 2nd kiai too ( 03:23:990 (1) - ), but I guess it’s for reading Fixed

    03:11:562 (3,6,7,8,9,1) - 3 could blanket the stream better Fixed

    03:14:133 (5,6) - 03:14:562 (1,2) - These being basically copy+paste seem to take away emphasis at the downbeat. I think you did it more effectively at the 1st kiai 01:48:419 (5,6,1,2) -. Consider moving 03:14:348 (6) - elsewhere. Hmm, idk I think theres adequate emphasis onto the downbeat, and the copy/paste doesn't really give it less emphasis imo.

    03:25:276 (3) - Apologies for pixel mod, but moving this toward bottom right will make the pentagon ( 03:24:419 (3,4,1,2,3) - ) equilateral and help avoid the overlap with 03:24:205 (2,3) - Fixed

    04:14:133 (4) - I’m grumpy that strong vocal at 04:14:133 - doesn’t seem to be emphasized. Something like ( http://puu.sh/qHhbL/965b46a0f8.jpg ) could have been done, and I’m sure you can think of something even cooler Vocal isn't that strong there imo... maybe it's just the syllable is sharper? But I don't think theres any particular emphasis there.

    04:26:562 - Is the break start intentionally offset from the downbeat? Fixed
The keyboard is mightier than the sword :^)

The map is really neat. Pls excuse my nazi modding

Good luck~
Thanks for the mods, SnowNino_ and CaffeAmericano!!
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
nah, only my pen is mightier than the sword
Len
Beatmap Nominator
2,836 posts
Joined June 2012
Len
from q


suggestion stuffs: *
unrankable or seems like: *



Rhetoric:

* 00:00:858 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1) - Ctrl + H


Good Luck~
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Ctrl+H'ed

Then Ctrl+H'ed it again for good measure, to make sure i Ctrl+H'ed properly the first time.

I also rotated the map 180 degrees, then Ctrl J + Ctrl+ H'ed it again!!
Cappu
68 posts
Joined July 2015
Cappu
[Metadata]
Idk why Reimu, but BG fits perfect x)
[Rhetoric]
01:03:424 (3) - I think will be better to end slider on red tick and make some clickable thing on following big white tick.
01:11:139 (1) - Maybe better to place 2 circles instead of slider here.
01:19:710 (1,2) - Following the rhythm of music better do like this instead of one slider: http://prntscr.com/c9vrht
01:45:205 (6,7,1) - Overlapping with hpbar, fix please.
01:46:169 (3) - I don't hear triplet here, so consider deleting this circle.
02:19:276 (4) - Maybe better place this slider in other way because of "ding" sound.
02:51:205 (2,3) - As for me, swap them like this: http://prntscr.com/c9w2cf
05:14:989 (3) - It's off grid, fix please.

  • That's all, map is warming me, wow.
    Now I'll post my M4M request in your queue.
GIDZ
1,002 posts
Joined January 2013
GIDZ
M4M

General
  1. Double timing points: 00:00:858 - , 00:02:582 - , 00:11:143 - , 00:16:295 - , 00:22:712 -
Rhetoric
  1. 01:35:889 - There shouldnt be any sound here for 01:35:139 (1) - , if u're following vocals, the sound ends at 01:35:817 - in 1/12 scale and not at 01:35:889 - . Thus I think the slider end should be little to no sound.
  2. 01:35:996 (1) - Can't rly feel the SV change here lol. Maybe use a lower SV to make a larger contrast between this slider and the next pattern?
  3. 01:56:133 (3) - Stack on 01:54:419 (3) - properly lol
  4. 02:02:240 - 35% volume -> 55% volume -> 50% volume -> 65% volume???? I just feel like there isnt much consistency here but its just me :v
  5. 02:11:990 (3,4) - Following music would play better imo cuz 02:11:776 (2) - gave the sense that the rhythm is transitioning away from vocals since is more of a ghost note. I just think http://puu.sh/qMX6B/62d877a573.jpg works better for a less random conversion of rhythm. :v
  6. 02:27:205 (2) - Is this considered as slider art lmao :P
  7. 02:33:419 (1) - Would be easier to read without NC here imo. Cuz I misread this while testplaying. Also since Intensity changes at 02:35:133 - so I think removing NC there is reasonable.
  8. 02:40:062 (4) - Hit-whistle seems to not fit at the slider end here imo, there's no sound for it to emphasize.
  9. 03:01:705 (1) - Yea now I can feel it cuz its 0.6x SV :P
  10. 04:04:276 (1) - I think the slider looks better without the third white point lol.
  11. 04:40:276 (1) - Ends too late to follow vocals imo. Should end at 04:41:526 - in 1/12 scale.
  12. 05:14:989 (3) - Offscreen object :v
  13. 05:24:846 - Feels like slider art time here idk.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Uh... what...
bibilicu
3,578 posts
Joined October 2013
bibilicu
õwõ

[General]
  1. Seems like Tags field is completely empty.Why don't you add for example 'After Dark' to tags? Since it is the name of album from where the song was released.Moreover, you can add エメ to tags (artist's romanisation).
  2. Regarding the metadata, I swear that it is fine as I got from this official website http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/ard/Arch/aimer/disco/?DFCL-2046 http://puu.sh/qLqjF/3f90518543.png.
  3. I don't really know why the Countdown is enabled.For me looks somehow useless so I think you have to disable the Countdown.
[Rhetoric]
  1. About:
    00:00:858 -
    00:02:582 -
    00:11:143-
    00:16:295-
    00:22:712- , the sampleset shouldn't be the same? Like this: http://puu.sh/qLpRx/7d1477752e.png? :roll: As I know, it seems to be a 'serious' because it could cause conflicts within the game.I'm not really sure.
  2. 00:12:000 (2)- This slider isn't properly stacked with 00:10:724 (4)- . Just move the slider to 256|247 for a better stack but then you have to re-make the blanket with the next slider, 00:13:285 (3)-.
Just posting it for now.I will continue tomorrow.><
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Silver_Cr0w wrote:

[Metadata]
Idk why Reimu, but BG fits perfect x)
[Rhetoric]
01:03:424 (3) - I think will be better to end slider on red tick and make some clickable thing on following big white tick. Nah, i prefer the current rhythm
01:11:139 (1) - Maybe better to place 2 circles instead of slider here. Slider fits better imo
01:19:710 (1,2) - Following the rhythm of music better do like this instead of one slider: http://prntscr.com/c9vrht Following vocals not drum
01:45:205 (6,7,1) - Overlapping with hpbar, fix please. It compromises my structure so no change
01:46:169 (3) - I don't hear triplet here, so consider deleting this circle. Vocals is 3/4
02:19:276 (4) - Maybe better place this slider in other way because of "ding" sound. breaks consistency xP
02:51:205 (2,3) - As for me, swap them like this: http://prntscr.com/c9w2cf Nah, I prefer this way. Plays better
05:14:989 (3) - It's off grid, fix please. Fixed

  • That's all, map is warming me, wow.

    - G I D Z - wrote:

    M4M

    General
      1. Double timing points: 00:00:858 - , 00:02:582 - , 00:11:143 - , 00:16:295 - , 00:22:712 - Fixed
    Rhetoric
    1. 01:35:889 - There shouldnt be any sound here for 01:35:139 (1) - , if u're following vocals, the sound ends at 01:35:817 - in 1/12 scale and not at 01:35:889 - . Thus I think the slider end should be little to no sound. Hmm... Idk I'll just silence the end.
    2. 01:35:996 (1) - Can't rly feel the SV change here lol. Maybe use a lower SV to make a larger contrast between this slider and the next pattern?
    3. 01:56:133 (3) - Stack on 01:54:419 (3) - properly lol Mmm idk... I think both fit because of the SV changes, but i'll see what i can do
    4. 02:02:240 - 35% volume -> 55% volume -> 50% volume -> 65% volume???? I just feel like there isnt much consistency here but its just me :v I dont want it too loud, thats why its not 70% xP.
    5. 02:11:990 (3,4) - Following music would play better imo cuz 02:11:776 (2) - gave the sense that the rhythm is transitioning away from vocals since is more of a ghost note. I just think http://puu.sh/qMX6B/62d877a573.jpg works better for a less random conversion of rhythm. :v I want to emphasize the held vocals
    6. 02:27:205 (2) - Is this considered as slider art lmao :P yes
    7. 02:33:419 (1) - Would be easier to read without NC here imo. Cuz I misread this while testplaying. Also since Intensity changes at 02:35:133 - so I think removing NC there is reasonable. Sure
    8. 02:40:062 (4) - Hit-whistle seems to not fit at the slider end here imo, there's no sound for it to emphasize. It's for the guitar string
    9. 03:01:705 (1) - Yea now I can feel it cuz its 0.6x SV :P ok
    10. 04:04:276 (1) - I think the slider looks better without the third white point lol. True, fixed.
    11. 04:40:276 (1) - Ends too late to follow vocals imo. Should end at 04:41:526 - in 1/12 scale. Yea... mmm k i'll see what can be done here
    12. 05:14:989 (3) - Offscreen object :v Fixed
    13. 05:24:846 - Feels like slider art time here idk. I just want a circle instead of dragging on. just ending empty.
Now I'll post my M4M request in your queue.Thanks, but no m4m'... my queue was clearly closed.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
@Byby fixed all! Let me know if you have anything else to point out! Thanks~
GIDZ
1,002 posts
Joined January 2013
GIDZ
Yea I realized the queue want open after I modded. No matter, take it as a free mod ~
Cappu
68 posts
Joined July 2015
Cappu
Seems I need accept it too, ok :P
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Sorry. I do feel bad, but if I accept the m4m here even though its closed, people are just going to flood me with m4m's in the future :P.
Pentori
1,158 posts
Joined November 2015
Pentori

Monstrata wrote:

Sorry.
i like canadians

[Rhetoric]
00:47:139 (1,2) - perhaps you could swap nc's here
01:27:853 (5,1) - you should make this play symmetric to 01:26:996 (2,3,4) - so that the only thing that interrupts circular flow is 01:27:424 (4,5) . something like http://puu.sh/qQfBE/ac2b1171b4.jpg
01:45:205 (6,7,1) - this kinda rekts the hp bar lol
02:13:276 (1,2) - eh, i feel this ruins the theme you were running with stacking your 1/1 rhythms. so i'd just stack this as well
02:26:562 (1) - this doesn't look like a monstrata slider. it would look a lot nicer if it were straight imo
02:33:419 (1) - since you already have an nc on 02:33:848 (1) - this one really isn't necessary :v
04:01:705 (3,1) - stack's off by like 1 pixel
05:06:418 (2,3,4) - what are your thoughts on these jumps? as far as i know, most kiai times only utilise high spacing on occasion for certain beats eg. 05:01:703 (4,5) - but this pattern here uses 3.0x jumps in succession, which will make the target audience that will play this map regard it as the "difficult section" which is like 5 minutes into the song. idunno

love the structure, osu! needs more of this.
call me back
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Pentori wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Sorry.
i like canadians

[Rhetoric]
00:47:139 (1,2) - perhaps you could swap nc's here Yea, true. Fixed this, and similar ones later in the song
01:27:853 (5,1) - you should make this play symmetric to 01:26:996 (2,3,4) - so that the only thing that interrupts circular flow is 01:27:424 (4,5) . something like http://puu.sh/qQfBE/ac2b1171b4.jpg I want to change the structure slightly though. Also I think the flow from 5>1 still plays well, it just doesn't look like it will because it appears like a flowbreak, but in game, considering slider leniency, i think the pattern will still flow intuitively to the surprise of the player.
01:45:205 (6,7,1) - this kinda rekts the hp bar lol Let me keep xD It's too important for the current structure xP. And I never really respected the HP bar to begin with haha.
02:13:276 (1,2) - eh, i feel this ruins the theme you were running with stacking your 1/1 rhythms. so i'd just stack this as well I really like this arrangement though. I think its still really easy to read, and it gives a little contrast to the stack on 02:11:990 (3,4) - which makes sense since there are two different rhythm gaps in play between these two "stacks".
02:26:562 (1) - this doesn't look like a monstrata slider. it would look a lot nicer if it were straight imo Sure
02:33:419 (1) - since you already have an nc on 02:33:848 (1) - this one really isn't necessary :v I like the NC on the slider better to i removed it on the first.
04:01:705 (3,1) - stack's off by like 1 pixel xd
05:06:418 (2,3,4) - what are your thoughts on these jumps? as far as i know, most kiai times only utilise high spacing on occasion for certain beats eg. 05:01:703 (4,5) - but this pattern here uses 3.0x jumps in succession, which will make the target audience that will play this map regard it as the "difficult section" which is like 5 minutes into the song. idunno It felt like the highlight for me because of the violin sound, Also, I kinda mapped the kiais to be slightly harder than the other haha. But yea, I think the instruments just stand out a lot here so thats why I used larger than normal spacing.

love the structure, osu! needs more of this.
call me back
Thanks Pentori!
bibilicu
3,578 posts
Joined October 2013
bibilicu
We did some changes in-game:

IRC Log
21:44 ByBy: i'm free now ^^
21:44 Monstrata: okay :D
21:45 ByBy: just some rhythms suggestions at the beginning of the song (you will deny them for sure)
21:46 Monstrata: okay~ :D
21:46 ByBy: 00:07:724 (1)- you can end this slider on 00:08:153 - and then you can add a repeat to give emphasis to the downbeat
21:47 ByBy: 00:11:143 (1)- both vocal and piano are in continuous extension so would be better to move the end of the slider to 00:11:785 -
21:48 Monstrata: hmm
21:48 Monstrata: for both... i prefer to keep rhythm simpler since the intro is so quiet haha
21:48 Monstrata: calm = simpler rhythm and clicking/releasing
21:49 ByBy: I know uwu
21:49 ByBy: I see that you're following the piano
21:49 ByBy: and a little vocal
21:49 ByBy: *the vocal
21:49 Monstrata: yea
21:50 Monstrata: im also trying to keep rhythm simple to match the tone of the section though haha
21:50 ByBy: I see xD
21:50 ByBy: 00:28:710 (2)- move the slider a bit to right for improving the blanket with the previous slider 00:28:282 (1)-
21:50 ByBy: the blanket looks a bit off
21:51 ByBy: 00:31:710 (1,2,3,4)- I guess the same *blankets*
21:52 Monstrata: oh yea
21:52 Monstrata: moved 00:29:782 (4) - instea xD
21:52 Monstrata: fixed the others too
21:52 ByBy: oki xD
21:53 ByBy: 00:40:710 (1,1)- rip blanket ;w;
21:54 Monstrata: fixed
21:55 ByBy: 00:41:996 (1)- the slider itself sounds fine, even if it doesn't end on vocal (on 1/4 tick which sounds a bit 'weird').The slider stops exactly on the *i guess it's a drum* oh well, on a noticeable beat.
21:56 ByBy: I saw that the modders started to complain about it.
21:56 ByBy: 00:51:210 (2,3,4)- blanket thingy.
21:58 ByBy: 00:54:210 (1)- Maybe remove the NC? It isn't like 00:47:139 (1)- which have the NC for the sake of readability
22:00 Monstrata: yea the slider stops on the drum thats why xD
22:00 Monstrata: fixed blankets
22:00 ByBy: 01:10:067 (2)- Try to move the note a bit to left for improving the blanket xD.
22:00 ByBy: oki
22:00 Monstrata: and fixed NC
22:00 Monstrata: okay moved :D
22:01 ByBy: alrighty :D
22:03 ByBy: 01:22:710 (4,5)- Maybe increase the spacing here a bit? It is pretty obvious that the vocal starts to intensify on 01:22:924 (5)- and a *little* jump would give some emphasis.
22:04 ByBy: eeh nvm
22:05 Monstrata: eeh xD
22:06 ByBy: 01:33:424 (2)- not a perfect stack with 01:29:567 (5)-'s head :x.
22:06 Monstrata: wait
22:06 Monstrata: i think you mean another slide
22:07 Monstrata: oh ok i see it
22:07 Monstrata: fixed xD
22:07 ByBy: okay xD
22:07 Monstrata: i think u mean 01:30:424 (2) -  xD
22:07 ByBy: yes
22:07 ByBy: xD
22:10 ByBy: 01:50:990 (3)- Move it a bit up for improving the blanket with 01:51:419 (5)- plus the note is overlapping with the stream 01:50:133 (7,8,9,10,1)- and the overlapping doesn't look really good :/.
22:11 Monstrata: o ya
22:11 Monstrata: fixed
22:22 ByBy: 02:02:133 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3)- it took me many times to get used with this pattern.Maybe you can ask for testplay to see if this pattern is 100% fine.
22:25 Monstrata: hmmm
22:26 Monstrata: i relaly like how those play tho xD
22:26 Monstrata: like the squares xD
22:26 ByBy: I see =v=
22:26 ByBy: they play fine indeed but at first play I got confused.maybe because is misleaded the (4)- in row
22:29 Monstrata: maybe xD
22:29 ByBy: 02:13:276 (1,2)- Intentional unstack?In addition, the NC from 02:13:276 (1)- looks kinda useless.I suggest to swap the NCs (remove the NC from (1)- , add the NC on (2)-)
22:30 Monstrata: yea
22:30 Monstrata: intentional overlap like that heh
22:31 ByBy: i see
22:31 Monstrata: also fixed ncs
22:32 ByBy: 02:33:419 (1)- remove NC?
22:37 Monstrata: ya
22:44 ByBy: 03:38:776 (2)- i know you're following the piano but it looks quite weird to ignore the stronger drums :/.
23:00 ByBy: 04:03:848 (3,1)- Having these stacked makes zero sense to the stronger vocal and piano.They're not same as the other stacked objects *where's a bit break between them*.Just my thought but I think you have to unstack them to give proper emphasis to the stronger vocal and piano
23:02 Monstrata: hmm
23:02 Monstrata: first one okay, changed
23:02 Monstrata: 04:03:848 (3,1) - though
23:02 Monstrata: i want to do a stack for some variety cuz i think a break there also works
23:02 ByBy: oki
23:02 ByBy: also about the first one, it's not the only *pattern* where you are ignoring the drums
23:02 Monstrata: idk its like i follow emphasis properly for like 95% of the map so i want to have some places where i put some variety and stop/go movements xD
23:03 ByBy: check that part carefully.you're ignoring the drums really much there :/
23:03 ByBy: I see xD
23:03 Monstrata: hmm
23:03 Monstrata: im focussing on other instruments there though ;c
23:03 ByBy: yeah i see ;c
23:04 ByBy: well some are not really stronger but others are
23:04 ByBy: so pay attention next time I guess. 
23:04 Monstrata: the thing is the other instruments aren't following the same rhythm as the drums
23:04 ByBy: yeah
23:04 Monstrata: and i already follow drums a lot in kiai so i thought its better to follow something different haha for some variety
23:04 Monstrata: and to map a new layer of the song
23:04 Monstrata: okay
23:04 Monstrata: :D
23:06 ByBy: 05:24:846 (1)- really weird to end mapping here since the song is still going :(
23:06 ByBy: also I noticed that on 05:07:275 (6,7,8,9,1)- you're using different spacing than other streams ;c
23:07 ByBy: i'm not sure if that's fine
23:07 ByBy: to not use the same spacing for all streams from a difficulty
23:08 Monstrata: its fine
23:08 Monstrata: variety in spacing xD
23:08 Monstrata: and yea at the end
23:08 ByBy: oh i see xD
23:08 Monstrata: i just wanted it to be a circle so its like
23:08 Monstrata: a rain drop or something xD
23:08 Monstrata: since thats what it sounds like
23:08 ByBy: i see :o
23:08 Monstrata: fits the bg too :D
23:08 ByBy:  yes it does :)
23:08 Monstrata: :DDD
23:09 ByBy: xD
23:09 ByBy: and I think that's all 
23:09 ByBy: :))
23:09 Monstrata: aah
23:09 Monstrata: fixed a lot, thanks byby :D
23:09 ByBy: np :)

Good Luck Monstrata!
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Thanks Byby!

Okay, all updated and ready!
Rizen
1,666 posts
Joined August 2013
Rizen
2gud4me
19:14 Rizen: hey monstrata
19:14 Monstrata: hey
19:14 Rizen: I tried modding your sleepy song
19:14 Rizen: and i have like a few nazi things if you want to sort those out .-.
19:15 Rizen: (first time modding insane in 5 months so I'm still super rusty)
19:15 Monstrata: sure
19:15 Monstrata: :D
19:15 Rizen: like, i'm not even sure if these are even worth saying tbh
19:15 Monstrata: AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT MENTIONING THAT HP BAR THING
19:15 Rizen: nah
19:15 Rizen: I don't have that on my list
19:15 Monstrata: kay <3
19:16 Rizen: I know how much you favour structure ;)
19:16 Monstrata: haha
19:16 Monstrata: <3
19:16 Rizen: talking about structure (nazi)
19:16 Rizen: 00:50:567 (1,3) - 
19:16 Rizen:  misstack?
19:17 Rizen: 01:27:424 (4,5) - not sure if these are meant to be symmetrical or not (looks like suppose to be but doesn't)
19:18 Rizen: that's the end of the nazi ones, now I have some other ones 
19:18 Monstrata: o fixed
19:18 Rizen: 00:28:282 - i'm not too sure about the ranking criteria but doesn't it say you can only have a red and green if the green is to change slider velo?
19:18 Rizen: correct me if i'm wrong pls ;_;
19:19 Monstrata: fixed. i think the symmetry got broken due to blanket slol
19:19 Rizen: rip
19:20 Rizen: same at 01:36:848 - (about timing points)
19:20 Monstrata: oh that one uh
19:20 Monstrata: idk pishi just told me to add that red line
19:20 Monstrata: 01:36:848 - offset reset
19:20 Rizen: talking about the green timing point
19:21 Monstrata: oh hmm i guess its not necessary to use the green line
19:21 Monstrata: but its fine in terms of ranking criteria
19:21 Rizen: aaa
19:21 Rizen: they should really change the wording zzz
19:21 Rizen: "An inherited timing section may be placed on an uninherited timing section (but only to change the slider speed)"
19:22 Rizen: how misleading
19:22 Monstrata: okay deleted them anyways
19:22 Monstrata: yep ;p
19:22 Rizen: 05:07:275 - is the 45% intentional as the kiai is the last one?
19:23 Rizen: everywhere else in the other kiais is 35%
19:23 Monstrata: o i just thought
19:23 Monstrata: larger spacing
19:23 Monstrata: so i could make the hitsound there a bit louder
19:23 Monstrata: to create more emphasis
19:23 Rizen: ah alright
19:24 Rizen: ok this one is subjective; 03:06:633 (4,5) - for a flowy map, this one doesn't fit very well
19:26 Monstrata: hmm yea subjective idk
19:26 Monstrata: i think it fits for this section since its all square patterns, but tbh i would have blanketted 3 if I had enough room lol
19:26 Rizen: ah ok
19:27 Rizen: welp, spotted another nazi if you don't mind that
19:27 Monstrata: sure
19:27 Rizen: 03:04:705 (3,5) - not the same
19:27 Monstrata: nazi stuff is ez to fix :D
19:27 Rizen: wait
19:27 Rizen: wrong time stamp
19:27 Rizen: 03:04:705 (3) - 
19:27 Rizen: and 03:06:848 (5) - 
19:28 Monstrata: o
19:28 Monstrata: fixed
19:29 Rizen: 03:36:312 (5) - overmapped circle?
19:30 Rizen: but i had an earache recently so i may be wrong
19:31 Monstrata: mmm
19:31 Monstrata: theres a drum roll there
19:32 Rizen: ah ok
19:33 Rizen: 03:41:990 (1,2,3) - you're following the melody here right?
19:34 Rizen: because there's a drum sound at 03:42:526 - but if you're following melody, it's fine
19:34 Monstrata: that one mmm kinda. its hard cuz of the syncopation. like
19:34 Monstrata: naturally 03:41:776 - would be clickable but
19:34 Monstrata: it would make the transition a bit hard into the next rhythm
19:37 Rizen: 04:05:348 (2,3) - would ctrl+g'ing the rhytmn be more suitable for that part?
19:37 Rizen: especially for vocals
19:40 Monstrata: true
19:40 Monstrata: fixed
19:41 Rizen: 00:32:353 (3,4) - shouldn't this be spaced out a bit more 
19:42 Monstrata: its for consistency with 00:31:710 (1,2) -
19:43 Rizen: but it's the only snare thing that's not emphasised with spacing in that section ;;
19:43 Rizen: mmm, carrying on
19:44 Rizen: ah, those were my last "object related" ones
19:44 Rizen: i'm not an expert on breaks but 04:39:526 - are you able to drag this break end to the previous white tick?
19:44 Monstrata: oh
19:44 Monstrata: yea i can do that i guess
19:45 Monstrata: i kinda wanted the break to just
19:45 Monstrata: end normally tho
19:45 Monstrata: cuz like
19:45 Monstrata: 04:39:526 - she takes a breath in at 04:39:526 - right when the break ends which is kinda cool lol
19:46 Rizen: doesn't she start her breath in at 04:39:633 - ?
19:46 Monstrata: oh
19:46 Monstrata: can't do it any earlier than that ;c
19:46 Monstrata: or err later
19:46 Monstrata: cuz that depends on AR
19:47 Monstrata: 04:39:526 - is basically 800 ms before you ahve to click
19:47 Monstrata: which is the AR
19:47 Monstrata: so if i want somethingat like 04:39:848 -  i'd need AR 10 basically xD
19:47 Rizen: ah, ok
19:47 Rizen: just thought giving the break a more rounded duration would be better aaaaaa carrying onnn
19:48 Rizen: did you hitsound the finishes differently between the first and second kiai?
19:50 Rizen: as 01:53:990 (1) - is the only time you apply a finish at this "part" of the kiai (compared to second and third)
19:50 Monstrata: yea i think i put more finish frequency on second kiai
19:51 Monstrata: hm
19:51 Monstrata: it doesnt rlly fit the secon kiai cuz theres no cymbal there thats the thing xP
19:52 Rizen: blame my malfunctioning ears zzz
19:52 Rizen: ah yeah, that was the last pointer i wrote down
19:53 Rizen: is it possible to add more tags?
19:53 Rizen: like, are people still allowed to add character names off backgrounds to tags?
19:53 Rizen: (like how you did with color)
19:53 Monstrata: mmm yea i guess
19:53 Monstrata: but i picked the bg for the art and theme
19:53 Monstrata: not because this was from touhou xD
19:54 Monstrata: can't rlly think of any other tags
19:54 Rizen: oh, is "color" from Ao Haru Ride?
19:54 Monstrata: tbh i had none when i started xD
19:54 Monstrata: color is from the album where ao haru ride's op comes from
19:54 Monstrata: lol
19:54 Rizen: WHAT
19:54 Rizen: ahhhh o
19:54 Rizen: k
19:54 Monstrata: yea lol
19:55 Rizen: never knew that
19:55 Rizen: so yeah, that's the end of my shitmod ;;
19:55 Monstrata: well, the album only had the ao haru ride OP and color
Pentori
1,158 posts
Joined November 2015
Pentori
looks good to me
#1
Warfu
323 posts
Joined March 2013
Warfu
One of my favourite singers <3
*shoots star*
Love the map, keep it going guys :D
Mafumafu
Nomination Assessment Team
3,397 posts
Joined August 2013
Mafumafu
senpai pls notice me
sahuang
2,294 posts
Joined December 2014
sahuang

Regraz wrote:

senpai pls notice me
Rizen
1,666 posts
Joined August 2013
Rizen
hype!
Ayyri
Ayyri
hi mom

[General]
  1. Your Reimu BG will trigger me until the end of time.
[Rhetoric]
  1. Whenever drum-hitwhistle2.wav is used, it sounds overly loud compared to any other sound. Consider lowering the volume of this sound. (One of the most prominent times that it seemed to distract from the rest of the hitsounds / song itself was at 02:01:490 - )
  2. Guitar wise, moving 01:41:883 - to 01:41:455 - would work better than following the vocals at 01:41:883 - which don't really feel like they warrant a double. It would also be aesthetically similar to 01:39:848 - but who cares about aesthetics these days.
  3. 02:48:740 - Moving this circle inbetween 02:48:419 - and 02:48:848 - would give the sense of a "down, up, down" pattern a bit more, as well as making the 1/4 pattern not mistakable for a 1/2 pattern. Like 00:39:210 - . Also because every other 1/4 pattern like this has had similar stacking to what I suggested. Like in the later kiai, at 05:03:846 - .
  4. Since I pointed out the previous one, I will point out that 05:14:989 - follows the same kind of pattern I am talking about.
There isn't too much to say, but forced M4M occured.
hi-mei
787 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei
Rhetoric
I know this gonna make you change the following constructions, tho i had to pinpoint this out:
01:02:139 (7) - i guess this http://puu.sh/qVbQn/a1b3cca5d6.jpg should be like this http://puu.sh/qVbZi/3e133faec3.jpg ?
01:26:996 (2) - this http://puu.sh/qVc6W/82f09884bf.jpg to this http://puu.sh/qVc8f/94a90fa132.jpg
01:26:567 (1) - ^
01:30:853 (3) - http://puu.sh/qVcjd/931657cd44.jpg move it a bit eh?
01:37:276 (3,5) - http://puu.sh/qVcs3/42b324640c.jpg ^
01:39:848 (6) - http://puu.sh/qVcxK/efae81faa1.jpg ^
01:59:348 (2) - ^
02:01:276 (3) - move this a bit to the 02:01:276 (3) - (it makes sense obv) with a bit of restructure to the following notes (obviously)
02:24:633 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVd45/e46e466b8a.jpg ^
02:32:562 (3,4) - this should be a bit to the top http://puu.sh/qVd8R/367d8f2567.jpg
02:41:562 (4) - why this here? http://puu.sh/qVden/937c9f6120.jpg ^
02:47:990 (3) - make this just straight horizontal?
02:47:990 (3) - move the s-end to s-start here? 02:52:276 (1) -
03:11:348 (2) - move it like this? http://puu.sh/qVduc/a80683526b.jpg <
03:11:776 (4) - this like here? http://puu.sh/qVdB2/e65cf951bf.jpg
and the next things should me a bit moved as well (consequently)
03:16:705 (3) - move this a bit to the bottom
03:41:562 (4) - ^ (03:41:990 (1) - consequently this should be straight vertical)
03:41:990 (1) - ???????? http://puu.sh/qVdYJ/85e9e5eec4.jpg
04:04:276 (1) - http://puu.sh/qVe3P/f36f465f05.jpg ^
04:58:703 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVeer/d22c5713d7.jpg ^
05:02:132 (5) - http://puu.sh/qVejK/657f8d0fee.jpg ^
05:06:846 (4,5) - and 05:06:418 (2,3) - 90* between them?
05:17:989 (1) - this looks weird in connection with 05:16:703 (3) -
so yea thats it!
this map is almost perfect, so i tried a bit harder to find all of these things i mentioned above
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Ayyri wrote:

hi mom

[General]
  1. Your Reimu BG will trigger me until the end of time.
[Rhetoric]
  1. Whenever drum-hitwhistle2.wav is used, it sounds overly loud compared to any other sound. Consider lowering the volume of this sound. (One of the most prominent times that it seemed to distract from the rest of the hitsounds / song itself was at 02:01:490 - ) Reduced the volume.
  2. Guitar wise, moving 01:41:883 - to 01:41:455 - would work better than following the vocals at 01:41:883 - which don't really feel like they warrant a double. It would also be aesthetically similar to 01:39:848 - but who cares about aesthetics these days. Yea, good idea. Changed it like how you suggested.
  3. 02:48:740 - Moving this circle inbetween 02:48:419 - and 02:48:848 - would give the sense of a "down, up, down" pattern a bit more, as well as making the 1/4 pattern not mistakable for a 1/2 pattern. Like 00:39:210 - . Also because every other 1/4 pattern like this has had similar stacking to what I suggested. Like in the later kiai, at 05:03:846 - . I don't really like spaced triplets in-between sliders. Also, this is pretty easy to read. Context is important here, and I think knowing the pacing and jumps i've already used here, it won't be confusing to identify this as a 1/4 jump. Well, honestly I wouldn't call it a 1/4 jmp anyways, since there's so much slider-leniency involved that the pattern just plays smoothly xD.
  4. Since I pointed out the previous one, I will point out that 05:14:989 - follows the same kind of pattern I am talking about. Same here. There's a lot of context provided for this pattern, it won't be misread as 1/2. As well, the flow of the sliders direct the player to the circle naturally too, so players can take full advantage of slider-leniency here.
There isn't too much to say, but forced M4M occured.
Thanks Ayyri :D.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

-himei wrote:

Rhetoric
I know this gonna make you change the following constructions, tho i had to pinpoint this out:
01:02:139 (7) - i guess this http://puu.sh/qVbQn/a1b3cca5d6.jpg should be like this http://puu.sh/qVbZi/3e133faec3.jpg ? No... this is a Ctrl+H'ed version of the slider you selected. Why do they have to be parallel?
01:26:996 (2) - this http://puu.sh/qVc6W/82f09884bf.jpg to this http://puu.sh/qVc8f/94a90fa132.jpg This is a different pattern entirely... If you look at it from that angle yes, its off. But look at it from when these objects are viewed in game. The grid pattern shifts due to blanket sliders being stacked. Blanketted sliders are not going to be the same length as linear sliders so when I use blanket sliders in hex-grid placements, the grid shifts a bit. In gme everything looks fine, but of course if you look hard enough in editor you see these irregularities. I don't plan on doing anything about them because they are intended, and I've already mapped and placed everything in a way that these irregularies are never actually seen in gameplay.
01:26:567 (1) - ^ ^
01:30:853 (3) - http://puu.sh/qVcjd/931657cd44.jpg move it a bit eh? Why? The overlap is barely even visible in editor, let alone in game...
01:37:276 (3,5) - http://puu.sh/qVcs3/42b324640c.jpg ^ Moved 1 a few pixels up isntead.
01:39:848 (6) - http://puu.sh/qVcxK/efae81faa1.jpg ^ Blanketting with hex grid does that. If you highlight it you might see it, but its perfectly fine in game. Please consider the context instead of just highlighting any part... Can you see these placement inconsistencies in game? No.
01:59:348 (2) - ^ ^
02:01:276 (3) - move this a bit to the 02:01:276 (3) - (it makes sense obv) with a bit of restructure to the following notes (obviously) ^
02:24:633 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVd45/e46e466b8a.jpg ^ ^ No...
02:32:562 (3,4) - this should be a bit to the top http://puu.sh/qVd8R/367d8f2567.jpg Why? What does making it linear do? The idea here is a symmetrical blanket pattern, not a linear pattern with the circles and sliderends...
02:41:562 (4) - why this here? http://puu.sh/qVden/937c9f6120.jpg ^ Linear pattern with 3's slider-end and 1's slider-head. Not everything needs to be a symmetrical pattern either.
02:47:990 (3) - make this just straight horizontal? Why?
02:47:990 (3) - move the s-end to s-start here? 02:52:276 (1) - Why? Makes no sense to me... :P
03:11:348 (2) - move it like this? http://puu.sh/qVduc/a80683526b.jpg < No... This whole second kiai is a square-grid patterning. I don't want to include triangles especially not here :P.
03:11:776 (4) - this like here? http://puu.sh/qVdB2/e65cf951bf.jpg ^ You're completely missing the aesthetic of this section... :P
and the next things should me a bit moved as well (consequently)
03:16:705 (3) - move this a bit to the bottom No...
03:41:562 (4) - ^ (03:41:990 (1) - consequently this should be straight vertical) Why? What does making it vertical even do?
03:41:990 (1) - ???????? http://puu.sh/qVdYJ/85e9e5eec4.jpg ???????? Wrong time stamp? But again, please consider context first...
04:04:276 (1) - http://puu.sh/qVe3P/f36f465f05.jpg ^ No clue what you mean here...
04:58:703 (4) - http://puu.sh/qVeer/d22c5713d7.jpg ^ What's wrong here? Placement is equidistant...
05:02:132 (5) - http://puu.sh/qVejK/657f8d0fee.jpg ^ No clue what you mean here...
05:06:846 (4,5) - and 05:06:418 (2,3) - 90* between them? Why 90 degrees? I want to use triangle jumps here...
05:17:989 (1) - this looks weird in connection with 05:16:703 (3) - Looks fine... I don't see what the issue is. They are also on different measures, different combo's, and dont even follow the same rhythm so I don't see why they need to be that interconnected even. The flow-break from the stream into the slider should give an indication of distinction and difference if anything...
so yea thats it!
this map is almost perfect, so i tried a bit harder to find all of these things i mentioned above
Well... thanks for checking, but really, give people reasons before suggesting changes... and at least consider the patterns themselves and how they are supposed to work before suggesting an alternative.
Ayyri
Ayyri

Ayyri wrote:

Your Reimu BG will trigger me until the end of time.
#2
dylansantosh
313 posts
Joined February 2015
dylansantosh
congratz on micheal buble

wait what
Illyasviel
218 posts
Joined July 2013
Illyasviel
OD 8 pls :c >:(
William K
715 posts
Joined January 2013
William K
I'll try modding ur's XD

[Rhetoric]

  1. 00:23:568 (3) - Hmm what about making this a bit more straight for aesthetics? It's not changing the pattern tho. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6023015 It looks much better for me than being so curvy...
  2. 00:30:424 (2) - Fix this blanket if you meant to blanket it xP
  3. 00:58:924 (4) - What about putting this a bit lower for emphasizing this 00:59:139 (1) -
  4. 01:10:710 (4) - Blanket's off. (3 pixels? XD)
  5. 03:50:026 (4,5) - What about stacking these with slider end to avoid overlapping with 03:51:205 (3,4) - .
  6. 04:25:705 - Lowering the sound here would be better to fit the music?
Hope these helps :V

Btw it's bubbled ._. Nevermind this then xD
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

William K wrote:

I'll try modding ur's XD

[Rhetoric]

  1. 00:23:568 (3) - Hmm what about making this a bit more straight for aesthetics? It's not changing the pattern tho. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6023015 It looks much better for me than being so curvy... No, I like this better.
  2. 00:30:424 (2) - Fix this blanket if you meant to blanket it xP ok
  3. 00:58:924 (4) - What about putting this a bit lower for emphasizing this 00:59:139 (1) - Emphasizing with flowbreak.
  4. 01:10:710 (4) - Blanket's off. (3 pixels? XD)ok
  5. 03:50:026 (4,5) - What about stacking these with slider end to avoid overlapping with 03:51:205 (3,4) - .No, i want them spaced like that. The overlap is not even visible in game play, they're too far apart in time.
  6. 04:25:705 - Lowering the sound here would be better to fit the music?No, music isn't softer there... Only after the break.
Hope these helps :V

Btw it's bubbled ._. Nevermind this then xD
Uh, thanks I guess.
Illyasviel
218 posts
Joined July 2013
Illyasviel
You don't need it, but I'll throw it anyways +1
Ayyri
Ayyri
Quality mods here.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,547 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
SPOILER
2016-09-07 15:46 neonat: ok so first i wanna ask about the hitsounds at the start
2016-09-07 15:46 neonat: specifically this section 00:09:010 (2,3) -
2016-09-07 15:46 neonat: i think u can remove the whistle at the start of slider 00:09:010 (2) -
2016-09-07 15:47 neonat: emphasize that piano
2016-09-07 15:47 Monstrata: hm
2016-09-07 15:47 Monstrata: yea i wasn't really sure about that tbh
2016-09-07 15:47 Monstrata: yea i think removing sounds good too
2016-09-07 15:48 neonat: 00:22:712 (2) - this one is the same too
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: 00:22:712 (2) - i'll remove t
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: heh
2016-09-07 15:48 neonat: this was timing checked right?
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: yep
2016-09-07 15:48 Monstrata: pishi checked it
2016-09-07 15:48 neonat: ok
2016-09-07 15:50 neonat: 00:40:067 (5) - could really be triplets in this section though
2016-09-07 15:50 neonat: the slider though mirroring the other one seems quite underwhelming
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: the snapping is really uh
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: off here
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: it should be more 1/6
2016-09-07 15:50 Monstrata: but it also isn't that accurate
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: so I just used a slider instead of some 1/6 repeats
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: cuz it was entering a calmer section
2016-09-07 15:51 neonat: then uh 00:39:853 (4,5) -
2016-09-07 15:51 neonat: instead can u ctrl g the slider and shift the circle up there instead
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: oh
2016-09-07 15:51 Monstrata: yea sure
2016-09-07 15:51 neonat: i just find the current movement for 00:39:210 (2,3,4,5) - rather awkward
2016-09-07 15:52 Monstrata: ah
2016-09-07 15:52 Monstrata: sure
2016-09-07 15:53 neonat: 00:53:996 (5) - was this supposed to be NC or
2016-09-07 15:54 Monstrata: o wops
2016-09-07 15:56 neonat: 00:55:710 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - and 00:41:996 (1,2,3,4,5) - sound similar so i think they can follow either pattern
2016-09-07 15:56 neonat: but maybe just stick to either NC after 2 bars or 1
2016-09-07 15:56 neonat: and not the 2 bars for 00:59:139 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - lol
2016-09-07 15:57 Monstrata: 01:00:853 (4) - nc;ed this
2016-09-07 15:57 Monstrata: 00:43:924 (3) - left this without NC cuz the previous one was really short. and also cuz the focus is drums instead of vocal here
2016-09-07 15:59 neonat: 01:26:996 (2) - remove whistle? kinda additional
2016-09-07 15:59 neonat: same with the end of 01:28:282 (1) -
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: k
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: then add on 01:28:924 (3) -
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: and remove on start of 01:29:139 (4) -
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: sure
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: i think then it seems more fitting
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: ya that works pretty well
2016-09-07 16:00 Monstrata: k
2016-09-07 16:00 neonat: i think i left out 01:28:710 (2) -
2016-09-07 16:01 neonat: try adding it on that too?
2016-09-07 16:01 Monstrata: mmm
2016-09-07 16:01 Monstrata: i guess it fits there too but that one seems a bit unnecessary imo
2016-09-07 16:01 Monstrata: makes it feel like theres too many whistles suddenly
2016-09-07 16:01 neonat: ok
2016-09-07 16:02 neonat: even though we removed more whistles than added oh the irony haha
2016-09-07 16:02 Monstrata: lol
2016-09-07 16:04 neonat: 02:18:633 (2,4) - removing one of the slider end whistles here, what do you think?
2016-09-07 16:04 neonat: or both
2016-09-07 16:05 Monstrata: hm
2016-09-07 16:05 Monstrata: i kinda like the whistles on the ends tho
2016-09-07 16:05 Monstrata: i can make the volume lower tho, i was kinda going for an echo rhythm here
2016-09-07 16:06 Monstrata: like on the slider-ends
2016-09-07 16:06 neonat: maybe vol might work
2016-09-07 16:06 Monstrata: k reduced to 30
2016-09-07 16:06 Monstrata: 25 sounds a bit too soft
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: actualy 25 is fine
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: k :D
2016-09-07 16:07 neonat: 02:41:990 (1) - remove that slider end whistle, place it on 02:42:633 (2) -
2016-09-07 16:07 neonat: remove the one on 02:42:848 (3) - as well
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: o
2016-09-07 16:07 Monstrata: yaa
2016-09-07 16:07 neonat: place it on 02:43:276 (4) -
2016-09-07 16:08 Monstrata: okay, sounds nice
2016-09-07 16:08 Monstrata: sets up the whistles for the vocals right after
2016-09-07 16:09 neonat: i like how 02:57:419 (1,2,3,4) - is every 2 objects then every object at 02:59:133 (1,2,3,4) - so now that I saw this I think you could have used the same pattern earlier at 01:31:710 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - which seemed weird for some of the sliders to have missing sounds
2016-09-07 16:09 neonat: 01:33:424 (1,2) - to be specific
2016-09-07 16:09 neonat: cuz i felt u didnt want to have it to heavily hitsounded but the 2nd kiai time u didnt have the same issue
2016-09-07 16:10 neonat: to be too*
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: oh
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: right i fixed those earlier sliders
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: added more whistles
2016-09-07 16:10 Monstrata: 01:31:710 (1,2,3,4) - added whistles here
2016-09-07 16:14 neonat: yea
2016-09-07 16:14 neonat: that's it
2016-09-07 16:15 Monstrata: o sweet
2016-09-07 16:15 Monstrata: update?
2016-09-07 16:15 neonat: ok
2016-09-07 16:19 neonat: 01:45:205 (6,7,1) - touches hp bar though, do you really want that
2016-09-07 16:19 Monstrata: and yea, i wanna keep if its fine, cuz its important to the structure lol

GL
those
3,135 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
Shocola
287 posts
Joined July 2015
Shocola

those wrote:

Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
Why not? :roll:
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

those wrote:

Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
qft

[-Chocola-] wrote:

those wrote:

Did nobody else notice that the bpm should be 70 here?
Why not? :roll:
Mainly it affects additional beats intensity for the nightcore mode, also some minor effects like pulsing in main menu, intensity of kiai flashes, etc

Won't require a lot of effort to fix if someone cares.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,660 posts
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Topic Starter
Monstrata
Poked goldenwolf and he said 140 fits the structure better but admits that 70bpm can also work. I'd prefer to use 140 in this case since the song is mapped like 140 bpm song.
those
3,135 posts
Joined November 2010
those
You're right, but did you know that 280bpm would also work? Just listening to the preview and take note of when the bass and snare kick in, and you'll see that the bpm is 70. There was a case in the past where I had to explain this but am somehow unable to find it for reference, but I hope that won't be necessary.
Pachiru
Global Moderator
2,957 posts
Joined June 2013
Pachiru
bass bass kick kick bass kick kick
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
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Joined August 2013
Kibbleru

those wrote:

You're right, but did you know that 280bpm would also work? Just listening to the preview and take note of when the bass and snare kick in, and you'll see that the bpm is 70. There was a case in the past where I had to explain this but am somehow unable to find it for reference, but I hope that won't be necessary.
i would agree here. bpm should follow kicks and drum. and wrong bpm is against RC
its an easy fix anyway. half bpm double SV
Monstrata
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Topic Starter
Monstrata
You here kicks and drums, I hear Flower Dance.

BPM is debatable. I think 140 fits the song much better.
those
3,135 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Debatable for the untrained maybe, and even then that's a stretch. But if you don't care about accuracy, then whatever, right? It's perfectly fine if you knowingly want to be worse than what takes next to no time to fix.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
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Topic Starter
Monstrata
Well, I've discussed my view on the bpm, and I've asked other pro-timers for their opinion, and we agree that 140 bpm fits the song's structure better.

Consider that the term is "beats" per minute, not snares per minute, or kicks per minute. Have a nice day!
Doyak
osu! Alumni
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Doyak
I haven't heard the music yet, but there exists a bpm that is 'musically' right, and it usually comes with the snare sounds (not always though), and we should follow that no matter how the map is mapped like. Because timing points should alwats represent the music as best as they can.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Monstrata wrote:

fits the song's structure better
Can you please elaborate?
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
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Topic Starter
Monstrata
Structure first of all; as in the type of rhythms I employ, and their associated spacing, the sounds and rhythm choices that I follow, all of which suggest a 140 bpm style of mapping. This is the map's aspect, which is potentially artificial, as I could have mapped this to a 280 bpm style too. So let's consider the song now.

Structure too, in how the instruments and vocals interact, as well as the specific rhythms that are contained in each measure. Halving the NC rhythm in this map would be a good indicator of why the rhythm, and the density of the notes suggests 140 bpm. Of course, musically, all of for example 03:02:562 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - can be one measure on 70 bpm. But you would halve the NC. Your motivation for NC'ing may be because the combo's are too long, but probably, your motivation for NC'ing is because notes like 03:04:276 - are downbeats where an NC would fit. Consider where the vocals are stressed too, and how dense much of the map is, in terms of drums, and other instruments. This is the song's aspect.

Put them together, with the song itself suggesting 140 bpm, and the mapping reflecting this through rhythm choices, and mapping, and you see why this is 140 bpm.

I'm all for fixing stuff if It's worth fixing. I mean, I requested a DQ on my Inferno map even after alacat said the concerns brought up by the modder were valid, but not important enough to absolutely require a disqualification: p/5390054. I maintain the same stance with all my maps, because requalifying is simple for me, and i'm not in a position where I'm having trouble ranking my maps. But I genuinely believe this is 140 bpm.
those
3,135 posts
Joined November 2010
those
If you didn't already know, BPM is purely for defining the number of milliseconds between each object and has absolutely nothing to do with how and where objects are placed. As a seemingly obvious example, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/99918. You would argue that this map was "mapped like 160 bpm" similarly how your map is "mapped like 140 bpm", but these phrases don't mean anything besides setting a base amount of time between each object; denser sections are just a fractional factor of milliseconds based on the base amount of time.
Monstrata
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Monstrata
Like I said, the mapping aspect is potentially artificial, which is why the composition of the song itself is the crux of my argument.

Would you consider stuff like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/349445 350 bpm then? Because there are kicks on every beat in Makina. Basing a bpm solely on the percussion won't work with all cases, unfortunately. Music is much more complex and rich.
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening
kinda have to justify with the length of an instrumental sequence here but if the thread is talking about how it's "mapped" then i can't really say much

00:28:282 - just for example, the piano sequence here would last for 2 bars on 140 BPM (it should be 70 BPM so it lasts 1 bar (and that should be ideal, right(??)))

01:36:848 - another example here would be the hi-hat/click sequence in this chorus, @ 01:39:848 - it's 1/8 (or 1/6?) and also @ 01:43:276 - it does the same thing again, from this, we can say that the instrumental sequence lasts for 2 bars here too

think these stuff repeat so I wouldn't really repeat too

Another thing that made me feel that this should be relatively slow would be that there isn't an instrument that is constantly utilizing the 140 1/1 rhythm, felt that the 2nd and 4th beat is redundant in a way, much like how some songs can be set to double the bpm and still sound sensible.

just my 2cents
Monstrata
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Monstrata
Hmm... @Evening I think your assumption is that a recurring instrumental sequence = a measure being repeated. As in, A A B B if this were a rhyme scheme. But I think its AB AB CD CD.
Doyak
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Doyak
I would like to check this myself but can't be online until nighttime (around 6 hours) so imma do that then.
Evening
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Joined December 2012
Evening

Monstrata wrote:

Hmm... @Evening I think your assumption is that a recurring instrumental sequence = a measure being repeated. As in, A A B B if this were a rhyme scheme. But I think its AB AB CD CD.
it is an assumption to back up my stand as to quantify it

doesn't really explain the click sequence though, its unique sequence (ends on the 1/8) lasts through 2 entire bars but if you see it as 1 unique sequence = 2 bars then i have nothing else to say i suppose
Monstrata
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Monstrata
Anyways, seems like there are differing opinions, which is fine. I believe its 140bpm, and hopefully I've explained my reasoning clearly. I trust the people who time maps on a regular basis, and both modders I consulted on timing gave me 140 bpm.
Bonsai
1,212 posts
Joined July 2011
Bonsai
I've been called for my opinion on this, and I am 100% for 70BPM, I don't even see any reason for it to be 140BPM, all the reasons you brought up were either about the map or the feeling, and I for one felt from the first second I heard it in song select that it's 70BPM, I mean just look at the pulsating speed of the logo in the menu, that seems waay to hectic imo. And all the technical aspects that have already been mentioned hint to 70BPM too.
(I think I time more regularly than GoldenWolf nowadays, also I discuss half/full-BPM-stuff quite often with pishi bc there's a lot of songs where it's much more complicated than here xd)
Monstrata
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Monstrata
Well, I'm 100% sure its 140 bpm. I'm aware it can also be interpreted as 70 bpm, but for me, that doesn't capture the song, only a layer of the song. I'm sure we can agree that the actual timing of the song (snapping, whether its 35/70/140/280/560 bpm) is accurate. We disagree on what number to give it, and what subsequent snapping to give all objects in the map (whether they should be 1/4 or 1/8 etc...). The only differences between 70 and 140 bpm is the kiai flashes and the main menu pulse, and while Bonsai believes it's too fast, I think it's just right.
Sieg
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Joined February 2012
Sieg

Monstrata wrote:

The only differences between 70 and 140 bpm is the kiai flashes and the main menu pulse, and while Bonsai believes it's too fast, I think it's just right.

Sieg wrote:

Mainly it affects additional beats intensity for the nightcore mode, also some minor effects like pulsing in main menu, intensity of kiai flashes, etc.
Gaia
2,808 posts
Joined May 2013
Gaia
p/3918657

nothing is being abused here either, please just let the mapper express his map the way he wants to
Shiirn
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Shiirn
Monstrata, you do realize that structurally, doubling the BPM also doubles the structural scale, right?


No shit, if a vocal line lasts two measures, if you double the bpm, it's going to last one measure, and will "fit structurally". It's still wrong.


Just by looking at the beginning of the chorus, from a vocal standpoint, 01:36:848 - is the start of the first line, 01:40:276 - is the start of the second (the vocalist starts early to emphasis the ee sound), with 01:43:705 - being the start of the third (again, vocalist starts early), 01:47:133 - the fourth, etc. Doubling the BPM means you have major downbeats in the middle of these sections, where, entirely by coincidence, the music also occasionally changes up slightly. But the music isn't structured to have measure beats in the middle of the vocal lines. It's structured to have most of the chorus flow into a doubled pair of 4-measure vocal paragraphs. That's what music do.

This is why I get so annoyed over your 4/4/4/4 structre spam - I know you, at least unconsciously, understand these concepts and apply them extremely efficiently. Unfortunately, even where they don't fit.


Like, 140bpm is functional here, because the musical structure is very clean and even. But if this track were more unevenly structured, you'd have cases where you had major downbeats where there are just normal downbeats. This is what happens when Nightcore is used - it throws cymbals (i think it's cymbals, haven't used nightcore in years) on every major measure downbeat because that's how 99% of nightcore is structured. This is why it's so commonly referred to when talking about double bpm tracks - because it can be used as a point against doubling the BPM because it debases the structure of the track.



tl;dr calling it "well its structured like 140bpm" is a major error because doubling the bpm can still make it somewhat "fit" while still being blatantly incorrect. I personally don't feel it's an error worth DQing over, but generally speaking people should be educated, rather than reprimanded, for making fairly innocent mistakes. Nobody really gives a shit about kiai flashes or menu pulsing or god forbid, nightcore overlay sound fitting-ness.

PS: It's absolutely, 100%, positively for sure, structured at 70bpm. But I don't care if it's 140bpm.

PSS: (I'm pretty sure my fuego map is structured at 100bpm, but it's too busy for me to map it at anything but 200bpm, sue me and get ready to DQ that if you DQ this lol)

PSSS: SHUT UP PISHI IT'S HARD TO WORDS

PSSSS: yeah looking at the non-chorus parts it's really really obvious that every other measure downbeat isn't actually on any relevant musical beat, this is an obvious enough clue that the bpm is doubled
Monstrata
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Monstrata

Shiirn wrote:

Like, 140bpm is functional here, because the musical structure is very clean and even... etc...
The bpm isn't being blatantly doubled here, nor does it only "somewhat" fit, that's the thing :P. Like I said, it's 100% 140 bpm. But i'm aware it can be seen as 70 bpm too. Anyways, the post Gaia made is quite relevant too, and previous discussions involving doubling bpms have all ended in both numbers being fine.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
it doesn't only "somewhat" fit. it doesn't fit at all outside the chorus. see: half the measures having pointless downbeats


but it's still functionally fine and isn't dq-worthy, it's just something to bear in mind. This map really should have had 70bpm, but if it doesn't, oh well.
Frim4503
2,067 posts
Joined July 2013
Frim4503
tbh i think the bpm is 70bpm cuz somehow feel really strange when i play it (maybe it's just me).
also maybe it will be better if you use 70bpm then increase thye sv, example : https://osu.ppy.sh/b/850729

just letting out my useless opinion
Doyak
osu! Alumni
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Doyak
Yeah I'm for 70bpm as well. The reason would be just same as others mentioned, can't say more than that.

Gaia wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/3918657

nothing is being abused here either, please just let the mapper express his map the way he wants to
It's not abusing anything. It's just that we need to use the correct bpm for the song no matter how the mapper has interpreted/mapped it. As you can see on the RC,

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Uninherited (red) Timing Sections should be used to accurately map the song's timing. They should synchronize to the beats of the song as accurately as possible and use the correct time signature whenever possible. If an incorrect time signature would last for more than 2 bars, add another timing section to fix it. Please see this thread for more information on downbeats.
(I am not authorized to read that thread lol)
Monstrata
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Topic Starter
Monstrata

Monstrata wrote:

Well, I'm 100% sure its 140 bpm. I'm aware it can also be interpreted as 70 bpm, but for me, that doesn't capture the song, only a layer of the song. I'm sure we can agree that the actual timing of the song (snapping, whether its 35/70/140/280/560 bpm) is accurate. We disagree on what number to give it, and what subsequent snapping to give all objects in the map (whether they should be 1/4 or 1/8 etc...). The only differences between 70 and 140 bpm is the kiai flashes, Nightcore, and the main menu pulse, and while some people believes it's too fast, I think it's just right.
I've already heard all the arguments about 70 bpm, this is now becoming a stale discussion, people aren't bringing anything new. My stance is still on 140 bpm.
Bonsai
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Bonsai
I haven't heard a single argument for 140 bpm except 'it feels right' and 'I trust other people' though, while there have been raised quite a lot of arguments for 70, be it the redundancy of most current 2s and 4s, the vocal structure, the harmonic rhythm (dunno if that has actually been mentioned yet),.. seems a bit imbalanced to me. Can you actually provide a single technical argument for 140?
Monstrata
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Monstrata
I've provided a lot. Please read through the thread xD.
Bonsai
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Bonsai
I have. I got: 'GoldenWolf said so', 'I've mapped it like that', 'I think it fits better', and then just those arguments repeating. I don't think I overlooked anything after reading through everything five times now, was there anything not related to your map and your feeling and other people's feeling? If so, I'd appreciate it a lot if you could summarize it again xD.
Monstrata
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Monstrata
Well you've clearly overlooked a lot xD. I mentioned goldenwolf not as a source but simply as a referrent to show that 140bpm is interpretable. You say there is no case for 140, but I've already established that there is a strong case for 140. You've completely over generalized all my arguments, that's rather disappointing.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
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Joined May 2012
Okoayu
I feel like we need more time to discuss this than what qualified currently provides this mapset with.

I do agree that inside the choruses 70 or 140 can both work but outside of them everything more or less suggests 70 to me mainly following the arguments Evening provided. Please discuss this properly, I think it's pretty obvious that the 70 bpm side has pretty valid arguments as well (besides Monstrata: your points were often worded in a way I couldn't get them fully and sometimes even mocking people who push forward arguments saying otherwise so maybe that's why some others didn't really take all your arguments to heart)

I think it'd be best for both views to summarize their opinion in this case

Also idk why ppl still take past ranked maps to support either side of the argument, we're talking about this map, not any other previously ranked map or things that were said 2 years ago o.o
Monstrata
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Monstrata

Monstrata wrote:

Structure first of all; as in the type of rhythms I employ, and their associated spacing, the sounds and rhythm choices that I follow, all of which suggest a 140 bpm style of mapping. This is the map's aspect, which is potentially artificial, as I could have mapped this to a 280 bpm style too. So let's consider the song now.

Structure too, in how the instruments and vocals interact, as well as the specific rhythms that are contained in each measure. Halving the NC rhythm in this map would be a good indicator of why the rhythm, and the density of the notes suggests 140 bpm. Of course, musically, all of for example 03:02:562 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - can be one measure on 70 bpm. But you would halve the NC. Your motivation for NC'ing may be because the combo's are too long, but probably, your motivation for NC'ing is because notes like 03:04:276 - are downbeats where an NC would fit. Consider where the vocals are stressed too, and how dense much of the map is, in terms of drums, and other instruments. This is the song's aspect.

Put them together, with the song itself suggesting 140 bpm, and the mapping reflecting this through rhythm choices, and mapping, and you see why this is 140 bpm.

I'm all for fixing stuff if It's worth fixing. I mean, I requested a DQ on my Inferno map even after alacat said the concerns brought up by the modder were valid, but not important enough to absolutely require a disqualification: p/5390054. I maintain the same stance with all my maps, because requalifying is simple for me, and i'm not in a position where I'm having trouble ranking my maps. But I genuinely believe this is 140 bpm.
I already gave a detailed explanation for why I thought it was 140 bpm. It's sad people have to overgeneralize it as 'GoldenWolf said so', 'I've mapped it like that', 'I think it fits better' xD. That's clearly not the case.
Monstrata
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Monstrata
Also @ Okorin. Gaia brought up the example not for the map itself, but for how people have handled things in the past. It's very useful to see how other people have discussed similar situations, and how their discussion has concluded. It's quite clear that using previous discussions has proved insightful to BN's in the past: p/5263051.
Ayyri
Ayyri
I think that 70 bpm would really compliment the shine in Monstrata's light blue eyes.

But I also think that the 140 bpm would really capture the essence that is, Monstrata's golden blonde hair.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
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Topic Starter
Monstrata

Ayyri wrote:

I think that 70 bpm would really compliment the shine in Monstrata's light blue eyes.

But I also think that the 140 bpm would really capture the essence that is, Monstrata's golden blonde hair.

Ahh, I never thought about it that way! Well, the eye is the window to the soul, so I guess 70 bpm does fit better.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
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Monstrata
The bpm is 140. But it can also be 70 bpm. Since both of them follow the song accurately, I'll just reduce the bpm to 70 to avoid more salt.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
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Joined May 2012
Okoayu
apart from the bpm (and SV, STR multiplied with 2) nothing else was changed so here's the flame back.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,317 posts
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Irreversible
Isn't the BPM 35?
loljk
Sonnyc
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Sonnyc

Irreversible wrote:

Isn't the BPM 35?
loljk
grats~
Hikona
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Hikona
Thx for the map!
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