"In the worst case", yes. But the program judges when you hit the keyboard, not when the hitsound yells.Kradfiz wrote:
Does this mean that the players are normally hitting the notes 70ms off of where they actually should be?
ArcherLove wrote:
I wish I have vote haha, this will fix offset issue @ osu!mania!
WASAPI exclusive mode is also good but I didn't have a chance to use it. LR2 doesn't use exclusive mode.fb39ca4 wrote:
Why use ASIO when you can use WASAPI exclusive mode instead?
ASIO is a third party API from ~15 years ago when Windows had poor sound support. It's quite clunky to use and requires a supported sound card or the ASIO4ALL driver.
WASAPI is a more modern API that was introduced with Windows Vista to fix the problems with sound in previous versions of Windows, and offers an exclusive mode that will bypass OS-level mixing and reduce latency, same as ASIO.
Glad to hear that. One more question here, is it involving exclusive mode? This can be ideal. Or just add an option to enable exclusive mode.peppy wrote:
WSAPI on the other hand is something that is possible (it's basically a single flag change in the library we use) but requires updating the library to the latest version. This is something on my short-term priority list for other reasons, so you may see that happen in the very near future.
Does windows 7 differ from windows 10 and 8? in terms of audio ms and latency ?peppy wrote:
I just did a full input-output path test on my system with osu! running at 240fps, which is nowhere near optimal. From mouse click to headphone output was averaging 36ms. That includes:
- mouse latency (logitech g500 wired running at 500hz ~2ms)
- osu! frame latency (up to 5ms)
- windows directsound routing (windows 10)
- my usb DAC headphone amplifier (i know this adds around 5-10ms)
i'd bet that the audio part of this is likely 20ms or less. i'd also bet an onboard sound card would do better than this in most cases.
Time to upgrade to windows 10 then d:peppy wrote:
windows 10 > windows 8 > windows 7
win7 is when they introduced the new architecture, which was young (as were the drivers to support it).
hi reddit and pro player feature requestarviejhay wrote:
i like how this 48 hours post have 2k stars
o_opeppy wrote:
I just did a full input-output path test on my system with osu! running at 240fps, which is nowhere near optimal. From mouse click to headphone output was averaging 36ms. That includes:
- mouse latency (logitech g500 wired running at 500hz ~2ms)
- osu! frame latency (up to 5ms)
- windows directsound routing (windows 10)
- my usb DAC headphone amplifier (i know this adds around 5-10ms)
i'd bet that the audio part of this is likely 20ms or less. i'd also bet an onboard sound card would do better than this in most cases.
test performed using iphone at 240fps, comparing milliseconds between physical click sound of mouse and headphone output of metronomehigh.wav (the thing that plays in the editor on upbeats of the metronome; used since it's high pitch and each to see in the waveform). note that 240fps is not a limiting factor as audio is not "framed" at that rate, but is 44.1khz, giving near perfect resolution.
peppy wrote:
I was talking to BilliumMoto, who quoted 80ms.
There's no way directsound adds 50ms. your sound card's drivers are FUCKED if that is the case.
Also your numbers are off. No (good) keyboard is as high as 40ms and most are FAR under 10ms. Get a high speed camera and actually measure your shit before barfing numbers.
I think this will correct osu!'s accuracy in audio output~. 
May I ask how you measure 10ms delay, because if I had it, I would be pretty happy. I measure 51-56ms delay on my computer from mouse click to actual hitsound with the best settings I managed to find.peppy wrote:
As mentioned in the OP, the usual case is well under 10ms latency using DirectSound (I've tested on multiple onboard and external sound cards). Adding ASIO support brings with it compatibility issues, futher dependencies, and usually not enough gain to be worth it.
I've experimented with ASIO previously (a few years ago) and it wasn't worth the effort. These days that applies even more so, as sounds cards (and their support for DirectSound) and windows mixing latency are in a far better state than when ASIO was actually useful.
There's better gains to be made elsewhere, such as decoupling the input handling from draw process (something we are working on this year).
WSAPI on the other hand is something that is possible (it's basically a single flag change in the library we use) but requires updating the library to the latest version. This is something on my short-term priority list for other reasons, so you may see that happen in the very near future.
I tested on a random piano program the delays of WASAPI, ASIO and Direct Sound. Had microphone near mouse and speakers, clicked a few times, found the average delay between the two. WASAPI - ~55 ms. ASIO @ 128 buffer size ~20 ms. ASIO @ 512 buffer size ~35ms. Direct Sound ~ 70 ms. So ASIO definitely 100% fixes the problem. I tested directly in osu! as well and got ~57 ms. I tested the delay on 7 friend's PC's as well and it was never below 50 ms. It was usually 50-100 ms.peppy wrote:
I can assure you that what you are seeing is very likely not a directsound-related issue. I'm pretty sure switching out directsound alone will not fix your problem, unfortunately.
Zinkon wrote:
I tested on a random piano program the delays of WASAPI, ASIO and Direct Sound. Had microphone near mouse and speakers, clicked a few times, found the average delay between the two. WASAPI - ~55 ms. ASIO @ 128 buffer size ~20 ms. ASIO @ 512 buffer size ~35ms. Direct Sound ~ 70 ms. So ASIO definitely 100% fixes the problem. I tested directly in osu! as well and got ~57 ms. I tested the delay on 7 friend's PC's as well and it was never below 50 ms. It was usually 50-100 ms.peppy wrote:
I can assure you that what you are seeing is very likely not a directsound-related issue. I'm pretty sure switching out directsound alone will not fix your problem, unfortunately.
Since I cannot believe you achieve <10ms I request proof. A recording of you mouse clicking and the resulting hit sounds coming out of the speakers. Preferably the hit sound would be a clicky one.
I would kill for audio delay reduction. The fun it provides is immeasurable.
Edit: I read the entire thread, I'll try to upgrade to Windows 10 and see if I get a difference
Edit2: With Windows 10 I'm getting ~51 ms mouse click to ingame hit sound delay. Which is about 6 ms better than Windows 8.1. Well that's nice. I still want to try out WASAPI though. And of course ASIO would be the ultimate heaven
Here is the guide Zinkon used. You can use it and verify the results yourself and get pseudo ASIO hitsounds for Osu.[ Rin Satsuki ] wrote:
Zinkon wrote:
I tested on a random piano program the delays of WASAPI, ASIO and Direct Sound. Had microphone near mouse and speakers, clicked a few times, found the average delay between the two. WASAPI - ~55 ms. ASIO @ 128 buffer size ~20 ms. ASIO @ 512 buffer size ~35ms. Direct Sound ~ 70 ms. So ASIO definitely 100% fixes the problem. I tested directly in osu! as well and got ~57 ms. I tested the delay on 7 friend's PC's as well and it was never below 50 ms. It was usually 50-100 ms.
Since I cannot believe you achieve <10ms I request proof. A recording of you mouse clicking and the resulting hit sounds coming out of the speakers. Preferably the hit sound would be a clicky one.
I would kill for audio delay reduction. The fun it provides is immeasurable.
Edit: I read the entire thread, I'll try to upgrade to Windows 10 and see if I get a difference
Edit2: With Windows 10 I'm getting ~51 ms mouse click to ingame hit sound delay. Which is about 6 ms better than Windows 8.1. Well that's nice. I still want to try out WASAPI though. And of course ASIO would be the ultimate heaven
If you can upload a proof that ASIO is working better with this random piano program, this could be a nice argument for this feature request. (Or i test it myself and upload the result)
]Zinkon wrote:
WASAPI in exclusive mode ~17 ms Proof: Image Sound file
There's no reason why any ASIO-capable device cannot provide the drivers required by DirectSound. On a slightly different note: DirectSound has been using WASAPI internally since Vista came out (it has also been deprecated since Vista).ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
If you have an ASIO only soundcard (like mine, INFRASONIC QUARTET, a recording card which isn't intended for gaming) you'll have definitely latency issues since it has to emulate directsound for applications that won't run on ASIO.
....
I do remember setting my Universal Offset with ppy's latency test map and my onboard audio (rather than my USB audio interface). I got it at ~-70ms, similar to what it was with my USB interface. YMMV, of course.ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
But I post this for people with this issue desperately looking for a way to run osu! on ASIO: Best advice for now is to switch back to onboard when playing this game.
It's just some devices weren't thought for running DirectSound, as I stated earlier, those may emulate DirectSound better than onboard cards and using way lower CPU processing, but at the cost of adding some milliseconds to the actual output.Kempie wrote:
There's no reason why any ASIO-capable device cannot provide the drivers required by DirectSound
That's probably the latency most players get when running osu! unless they have some CPU or GPU issues.Kempie wrote:
I got it at ~-70ms
