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Vision of BNG: What should we have to work for?

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Topic Starter
Sonnyc
Hello!

Many of you guys would be already awared of the size of BNG is nearly resembling that of the old staff-BAT in the 2014. Within this situation, I think we should revise the idea of us BN working as an individual. But before making a proposal for us to work as a team, I'd like to start from setting a vision made by ourselves which would be the ultimate purpose indicating a goal of our overall conduct. More likely, a "code of conduct: BN (ultimate edition)" or something.

One of strong code we are asked was "don't fuck up". But is this the biggest value we should be chasing? I assume not, and rather feel there should be a stronger value we should strive for.

What should we have to work for?
Any kind of opinions are appreciated. Let's just throw out what we think, and try to discover if there is any common points!
Topic Starter
Sonnyc
  1. Helping new mappers.
  2. Providing mods to the community.
  3. Nominating good maps.
  4. Asking for a disqualification.
These would be some general actions that several BNs are committing, and expect to be answering. However afterall, these are some detailed approaches, and we can discover a common goal inside these conducts.

<<Increasing the Quality of Ranked Beatmaps>>


The above statement is what I deem BN should be working for. Lending a hand for new incomers, who will be the future generation of mapping, to improve in mapping will increase the quality of ranked beatmaps in the long run. Giving opinions to existing maps and providing the proper direction of mapping will also improve the quality. Nomination is some kind of a personal approval according one's quality standards, and these nominated maps will eventually get the chance of getting ranked. Disqualifications happen to assure the map reaching its full potential, also affecting the quality of ranked beatmap category.

Eventually, I've got a strong feeling that the vision of BNs should be strongly related to beatmap qualities afterall. This will lead to another discussion that will be a lot controversial, regarding "what is a beatmap quality" v2, but guess I'm leaving this for now.
HappyRocket88
I actually admire the input you've done so far with this process since it does show your will to re-word what we us BNs should work for. I also agree with the goal/vision we should aim is to increase the quality of ranked maps apart from the other we do as BNs as helping new mappers, modding on our own accord, etc. I guess it's something related to nominating high-quality maps, because I think they go hand-by-hand since one can't exist wth the other.
Topic Starter
Sonnyc

Loctav wrote:

Ultimately, all parties involved in the ranking/mapping process have the same ultimate goal - to get cool stuff ranked and available for play as quickly as possible with as little issue as possible.

- Changes to the Quality Assurance Team
Brought a sentence that was made in another place.

The "cool stuff" part would be something important on that statement, since the term will be highly related to the beatmap quality. Mappers should be making cool stuff at the first place, and modders reducing the issues present in the map. Then as a nominator, since we are the ones who give a direct opportunity to get a map ranked, its likely to nominate cool stuffs and leave non-cool stuffs.

To speak more generally, will it be appropriate to consider all these procedure being done to maintain above a certain quality / or to maintain a high quality for ranked beatmaps?
Nivrad00
Everything above sounds very reasonable to me. Increasing quality of ranked maps.

I would personally like to focus on "as quickly as possible with as little issue as possible" from Loctav's quote. Although I don't know about the other modes' communities, many mania mappers can attest to the difficulties of finding an available BN. At some points recently there have only been two or three active mania BNs at a time. This means that a lot of great maps get sent to graveyard, while the mappers have to wait months (or years) to get just one map ranked. I feel like we will be fully fulfilling our role when the process of ranking maps becomes less stressful and more timely.
Nozhomi
Will quickly drop my thoughts here then~

I think as a team, our goals should be :
  1. Continue to increase mapping quality.
  2. Find a agreement on what should be the quality standards for a qualified map. The rework of RC would go pair with it.
  3. Try to help new and promised mappers.
  4. Try to give more attention to #modreqs, who in my opinion should be more a tool more used for people to get a mod instead of always asking BNs all the time and get denied due to the high amount of mods requested.
I can't think to something else for now. Will edit if find more.
Kamikaze
Well idk if that counts, but my personal goal (although I'm inactive right now) is striving for variety. Both music and map type wise (which in mania means other keymodes than the most popular ones mostyl, or just unusual mapping styles)
Kibbleru
i also think we should be pushing for the innovation aspect of mapping. that is the only way for mapping to evolve
Cherry Blossom
Copying/pasting.

Nozhomi wrote:

I think as a team, our goals should be :
  1. Continue to increase mapping quality. So BNG should have "higher standards" of mapping concerning the quality of the map, this includes that before pushing a map forward, there should be enough mods on it, and if possible from BNs or experienced modders, or even players if the map is challenging. Any feedback is useful.
  2. Find a agreement on what should be the quality standards for a qualified map. The rework of RC would go pair with it. Rewording RC is to make things more clear for mappers, especially those who are not 100% comfortable with "how to make something rankable".
  3. Try to help new and promised mappers. This means, being fair to everyone, and avoid some kind of favoritism to some mappers that are more experienced, or your friends.
  4. Try to give more attention to #modreqs, who in my opinion should be more a tool more used for people to get a mod instead of always asking BNs all the time and get denied due to the high amount of mods requested. yea, atm people see modhelp like "do a wish here", even if they know there's a probability of 0.01% that a BN will pick their map.
Sc4v4ng3r
Nothing much to say, but I believe emphasizing on ranking variety of maps(as kamikaze mentioned) should be one of our objectives. People do have different quality values so by ranking different variety of maps(different mapping style mostly) we will be able to conform to most of those values. As we are the 'gateway' for maps to be pushed into the ranked status, we should be the one who does that for the community.

I'm not sure how will this work but that's just my(rather simple) opinion.
Topic Starter
Sonnyc

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Nozhomi wrote:

I think as a team, our goals should be :
  1. Try to help new and promised mappers. This means, being fair to everyone, and avoid some kind of favoritism to some mappers that are more experienced, or your friends.
Being fair to everyone is an important thing, but seems this needs some kind of a clarification regarding the "favoritism" you are talking about. Basically BNs are free to mod whatever they want, and we can't force people to not check maps what they want to because everyone would have a different mindset on this. Some may want to help good maps especially, and some may want to do a favor for their friend.

Instead what I can see a point about "fairness" could lie on one's "consistent quality standards". Doing a favor to one's friend by modding it will be never a problem in my view, but applying a different quality standards for their friend's map with that for other's will definitely be an unfair conduct. Such inconsistent manners should be avoided if ever happens, since it will fail to achieve a high quality of ranked maps.
Cherry Blossom

Sonnyc wrote:

Doing a favor to one's friend by modding it will be never a problem in my view, but applying a different quality standards for their friend's map with that for other's will definitely be an unfair conduct.
Exactly.
There's nothing wrong with helping some friends, but doing it always may be annoying for others, and considered as "favoritism"
ZZHBOY
favoritism? favoritism is not only a bn's but also every modder's right, though modding fairly is just moral.
rationally, we can never avoid favoritism totally. try to achieve a balance between your friends and stranger to keep a nice reputation is what i suggest :3
btw, sonnyc is really a hardworking bn through his active queue, so it's not bad for us to accept mods from modding queue in forum, i'd like to encourage you guys attempt to resurrect your queue, they would work well :)
Natsu
Favouritism, yeah like iconing your friend map without mods, there is clearly a difference of helping a friend and lower your quality standards because is your friend.

I guess having some hard rules as before would be nice, the main problem with BNs nowadays is that there is a careless feeling like DQ isn't a bad thing so let's yolo and see if the map made it to rank it. Before when we had a score we was really careful to put icons, was alot better if you ask me.
The map is fine and rankable let's icon it, this is what we see nowadays, but there is no more Lets improve this map.

Another thing I saw is that some BNs from certain game mode iconing maps for other modes, yes there is no more specific BN per mode, but what is the point of doing a test if we could make for example the CTB test and then go ahead and start iconing standard or taiko maps.

What we should have first to all is harder BN rules, a BN manager that is closer to us, change our own mind and kick people without a single icon or mod in a month, let's be honest everyone who complains about not finding BNs mainly complain because they see a list with 70 BNs, but only 15 modding in reality.

About new mappers they always will have a hard time, is the same problem when you are new at something work, life or any game. We all was new mappers at certain point and we all did pass the same, there is no really a way to do a shortcut unless you improve your mapping really fast, the tutor program seems promising to bring up new mappers tho!

just my 2 cents, good that you bring this on, Sonnyc.
HappyRocket88
Natsu, what do you mean by "What we should have first to all is harder BN rules"? o:
Topic Starter
Sonnyc
Hope the favoritism topic was settled down.

Natsu wrote:

I guess having some hard rules as before would be nice, the main problem with BNs nowadays is that there is a careless feeling like DQ isn't a bad thing so let's yolo and see if the map made it to rank it.

What we should have first to all is harder BN rules
Just a harder rule without anything else would only make some people finding its hole, and abuse it again. Maybe you are aware that things that should not happen are still happening. What will be needed to get things properly done then? A stricter BN rule that regulates some unwanted behaviors, or a proper mindset of everyone about how things should be done?

I believe it's the later one, and that's why I brought up this thread to start with the vision we should all commonly have. A core value that is brief, but clear enough.

I've got some personal opinions regarding the BN scores at the past, but since it's all over and partially off-topic which I want to bring here, I will keep that topic off for now. Even the system of BN scores or any other things have changed now, the meaning of "nominating a map" itself has always been the same. "Giving an opportunity for a map to get ranked".

The act of nominating a map would be one of the "work for" parts that I'm asking in this thread. Then what's the value we should be pursuing by that act? Having an answer on this will be sufficient without any need for hard rules.
Kibbleru
the problem is what do we do with the people that don't follow that 'vision'? kick them? that only worsens the problem of 'not enough BNs'
i think it's very had as group to get every1 to have the same mindset. Some people may only be in BN just for the benefits, and others are in it to legitimately help people.

personally i am in this role because it labels me as 'somebody you can ask for help about mapping related issues' and i like what i do. less of the; ask me for a bubble, but that is a part of the job too xD

having a hard rule accomplishes what we ultimately want, however in a more negative way. We don't want to encourage BNs to mod by saying 'you have to mod this amount of maps or you will be fired'.

Ultimately it's deciding on whether we want a more relaxed environment where people can do whatever they want. Or a strict environment where things are done.



back on to topic, i believe some things we should strive for is simply quantity, quality, and efficiency.

quantity is important for all the mappers out there looking for a ranked map. there are probably dozens of maps that are ready to be ranked, just need some BN noticing.
quality is also an important factor (self explanatory)
efficiency is something that i believe will not only encourage more BNs to mod, but also increase the quantity and quality of out-coming ranked maps. For example, there is already a program that checks almost every unrankable issue that is in the ranking criteria (Modding Assistant) (side note: trust me this program combines the qualities of any other modding tool you have ever used before). This tool personally makes my job as a BN 100x easier, since it takes out the tedious things that i would otherwise have to check for. (of course take the tool with a grain of salt, because no tool is perfect). Then comes judging the general quality of the map. If you are experienced, then this step could come particularly fast. The last thing we need is motivation. When it comes to this, a little goes alot. cough* forum title, colored names, etc LOL
Natsu

HappyRocket88 wrote:

Natsu, what do you mean by "What we should have first to all is harder BN rules"? o:
I mean before we have to do things well or get kicked, now we just need to do a random icon every 3 months and we are fine, since there are no penalties or activity requirement, so we lost the sense of responsibility. People iconing modes that have no idea, skipping pop bubbles, etc.

Kibbleru wrote:

quantity, quality, and efficiency.
Basically this, but for this we need to have motivation, responsibility, human resources and a good organization. that's why I was asking for a manager that is more active and closer to us, since we are lacking a leader.
Topic Starter
Sonnyc

Kibbleru wrote:

the problem is what do we do with the people that don't follow that 'vision'? kick them? that only worsens the problem of 'not enough BNs'
i think it's very had as group to get every1 to have the same mindset.
That's not how I want the vision to be setted, and worked. When it comes to small details, everyone will have different mindsets. Those can't be the same even as a group, and shouldn't be the same. Rather, those details will all have some kind of a "common" direction heading at. I expect vision to be a super "obvious" thing that could be agreed for ALL members even for the ones with the most uncommon mindset. We should have to see things larger at least for this topic.

Whether we wish or not, being a BN and nominating puts makes ourselves in an important role of forming a high portion of this game. We are somehow expected to act in some kind of a behavior, but no one will tell us straightforwardly. Only we can decide ourselves where we should be commonly heading for is what I'm feeling.

Motivation is also highly important for getting things done, but motivation never exists alone. It always has a motivation "for" something. A clear vision, and a strong motivation is all what we need.
Seijiro

Natsu wrote:

that's why I was asking for a manager that is more active and closer to us, since we are lacking a leader.
Sorry if I step in this conversation although I'm not part of the BNG, but this line made me think.
You're saying you need a leader or some sort of manager able to keep order among the group... then what about making one? I mean, one you guys choose among yourselves. As far as I know the BNG is a group of users with the special ability to nominate maps.
I underlined users for a reason, because this means you're literally free to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't go against the community Rules.
No one said that even if you are a group you can't make a leader you decided among yourselves. You are the BNG and you know what it is like to be you, therefore you are the ones to decide how you want it to go: you need a leader? Make one. Too many people to get everyone together? Make small groups with a leader each. And so on so forth. (Hint: hello Discord, hello Slack, hello Trello, hello <insert external organization program/site here>

I guess that if you really put your mind to it you guys (either in small groups or alone) can find a solution suitable for your needs if you break down your problems in a proper manner by discussing, even if it looks like you already have a general idea of what should be done, yet an unclear one on "how". But again, if you guys meet up in a Discord or Slack server and discuss things out you'd probably get something done, instead of posting on threads 6 hours apart from each other.

Notice this is purely my opinion as a member of the mapping/modding part of the community.
Shiranai
Hello,
Dropping some opinion then, we bns should (at least):
  1. Keep maintain the quaility of their mods, either their mod is a nm or m4m. Lately I see that bns tend to give a poor mod on nm, without a good reasoning and sugestion what to do next to get rid of the issues or to improve the map quality itself
  2. I know this one a bit hard, but we should keep help mappers in any way they need, especially new mappers. Because they need more modderation compared to the older mappers. But in the future the new mappers will become a good asset for the comunity
  3. Keep modding on our own pace. I know that one a bit selfish but due to rl it is sometimes hard to keep both side maintained lol
Well thats my two cents, I am sorry if my opinion rather contardictive here and there :p

A bit out of topic, I don't see any harm on making a group leader if it can make things more organizing, like bat manager in past times. But we need agreement first with other group members
Wafu
In response to MrSergio: Yes, if one feels a lack for a leader, make it. We are a group of users that can do anything what doesn't break community rules, so we are free to open up a <insert external organization program/site here> channel and make own organization, completely independent on staff members. The organization makes everything simple - you can make separate department for metadata, skinning/storyboarding, checking rankability of issues etc. That would make everything absolutely comfortable. Currently, not many things work organized way. Maybe some threads in Beatmap Management do, but well, how often does anyone ask here actually? #nominators channel is nothing doing excellent job here, sometimes, people actually ask for help, but mostly, it's dead or there's just spam of irrelevant things. It's like #osu for nominators, kind of. The same applies to #modhelp, which is #osu for mappers/modders. I mostly don't see any sensible discussion in these channels. We have a "modding association" channel on discord, but that's for staff, nominators, mappers etc. There's one #nominators channel and that one basically works the same way as the one in osu!. If we wanted organization, we should do it absolutely separate from outer world and only accessible to members of BNG. I'm not going to list how the group should be organized unless someone wants me to, but I think it's clear what departments the channel would need. I could even make it, but not unless people actually want it. Having it for about 3 people would be useless. So yes, I agree organization would be cool and we could have a sort of "leader", internally.

However, that's just the response to MrSergio and my opinion on the organization.
tl;dr forums are slow, chat is dead and isn't organized. Separate Discord/anything else with good organization options for nominators only would work much better than any organization we currently have.

Next, my opinion on how should BNs work from my point of view. Listed things are sorted by priority, every point is important to me, but the higher the point is, the higher its priority is:

  1. Check qualified maps and report them if they are wrong from any aspect. This might look like I want BN to replace QAT, but not really. QAT already doesn't have to check every single map thoroughly and it's a responsibility of community. BNs are also a part of community and even they are responsible for checking and reporting qualified beatmaps. As you can notice, the thread that is made for reporting beatmaps is not so often used by regular users, but mostly by BNs. Keeping it at responsibility of community is risky and BNs should actively participate in this thread. By doing that, we assure that the quality of the beatmap is sufficient according to our mapping standards. "assuring quality", might look exactly like replacement of the QAT as it's "quality assurance team", however now it works like a middleman between complaining modders and maps who can clarify that what you say makes sense and is reasonable enough for a disqualification. Keeping the quality standard in place is more important than increasing those standards rapidly. Our goal is the highest quality possible, but we also need some flow of beatmaps into ranked section, somewhat a compromise between high quality and amount of ranked (not qualified) beatmaps. That doesn't mean quality should lower and we should qualify more, but that we should have some standard below which we won't allow the maps to pass and we should be checking all qualified beatmaps according to that. We don't need the style of beatmaps to exactly fit our imaginations, but every BN should have a list of issues in his head which are not acceptable for him and should mention them in any situation. He will only help mapper in case it's DQed and will assure that the map is good according to the standard.
  2. Mod beatmaps and be very constructive. Explain a lot, even if it would cover few papers. Modding beatmaps is not necessarily the way to increase the quality standard, but for sure will spread it. Respectively, it will spread your idea of quality standard between mappers and will approximately provide information about what you consider acceptable. If every single BN made 5 mods per month, yearly, we'd cover 3900 mods, for each month, that's 325 mods. That number is fairly nice, because somone would get some idea of what we expect - 325 times. Those people who got their map modded will for sure agree with some ideas and as I said, if you are very constructive and explain a lot, the mapper will be able to know WHY it is an issue and not only that he'll avoid it in future, but he'll also mention similar things when modding other people's maps. More mods we make, more people will know what is acceptable for qualification and will use it in their mods - great explanation is the key to spread ideas. Providing mods that fix few things that are explained in such way so the mapper will mention them his mods is more useful than providing mods that fix the map to complete perfection without proper explanation - mapper won't know why he does the changes and won't use it in modding, because he doesn't know the reason himself and cannot explain it. Talking about numbers, if that would be 3900 mods per year, we can realize that mod might have for example just 4 types of issues, that would cover 15600 explanations per year, from BNs. We as BNs, despite having only the bubble and heart icon for usage, are considered as higher members of community in terms of modding, so it's likely people will spread our ideas, opinions and explanations. Be sure to think about how much we actually help by spreading our requirements.
  3. Nominate beatmaps. Interestingly 3rd in terms of priority. The reason behind this is that keeping the standard high and spreading ideas about what is issue is more powerful than nominating beatmaps on daily basis. If this was our biggest priority, standards would fall deep down - in result, people would use ranked maps with lower quality standard as an argument for their map being mapped in such way, typically "Why is my map wrong if XY could do it on his map which was ranked recently?". I am aware this happens and will happen in future, but if nominating was the top priority, without any standards, we would have to deal with enormous number of people who would do this. We need to assure that every map is as high quality as possible so that qualities of ranked beatmaps don't differ insanely. We need to make sure we are fair to everyone, that's reason why the 2 above points should have higher priority than nominating itself. These three points together lead to overall increase of quality standards. Our goal isn't to rapidly increase standard quality or to keep increasing the standards more and more - that is wrong. We sure want a high quality standard, but that should stop at the point when we'd like to change map according to our own style or when we'd have unreasonable explanations just for sake of things being perfect. Increasing quality infinitely would result in people modding 1px stuff, blankets etc. We just want to make sure that issues we can explain clearly are being addressed and that we don't "kill the mapper spirit", we want to keep subjective stuff to mapper and only to the mapper. If we want to mention something very subjective, we'll simply ask him if he doesn't like it more this way. We cannot just get to the point when we deny things that weren't fixed, but were explained properly or even to the point where we don't accept things that we didn't even explain. The only change to "standards" should be regarding issues that are explained reasonably and sensibly.
  4. Discuss with other nominators about issues/questionable things in beatmaps. Very important. We should work individually when it comes to ideas and acceptance, but if we are unsure about anything, it's best if there are as many people as possible to give their feedback and discuss if certain thing is an issue or isn't. BNs often contact QATs with "is it okay?", while they have opportunity to get 65 opinions (BN count) from people in the same group. I include even mode-specific BNs, because every single person in the group is able to judge every mod. Being inexperienced doesn't necessarily mean that you cannot think about something being fine or not - worst scenario, you'll just say something others disagree with, but you can still have up to 65 opinions within the group. As I mentioned in response to MrSergio, making some Discord/Slack/etc. channel for nominators only with a "Is this issue" department" would certainly give you a big amount of serious answers and opinions. In current #nominators chat, it doesn't work that much as serious things are mixed up with random things people send here and organization would help a lot. Beatmap Management forum covers it a bit, but the response time is high, hence nobody is using either of these actively.
  5. Helping mappers. This includes answering their questions about modding/ranking process, giving opinions about maps while being very constructive again. You want to teach the mapper to not repeat the same mistakes and you want to encourage them to do everything properly. This is not the highest priority, because any of above helps mappers too. We don't need to coach mappers, but we should encourage them to bring the map to the statement where we already want to mod their map or even nominate it. Simple, but reasonable suggestions and advices will help him improve, you can even show him examples. One day, he might come back with a better map that you'll want to mod, which will explain very concrete issues in the map and eventually, if he understood everything well and you explained everything in-depth, you might be able to nominate the map. In any case, you will make sure that you made someone improve in what he wants to do. Giving basic advices to someone shouldn't take you more than 20 minutes and it doesn't hurt either, mod post might take longer, but in result might be much more constructive, helpful and can teach the mapper to do things better and to mod what you mentioned in future.
  6. Participate in mapping-related discussions. This isn't really obligatory, but if there is a proposal for a change, you should think about it from many perspectives and say your opinion about the thing. Most of community can handle it, but even you as one single person can make an argument that could mean a significant change in mapping or modding. More opinions we have to certain problem, the better - as long as you make sure your argument is reasonable and wasn't counter-argumented by other argument. Then you'll be useful.
Before anyone assuming that bad organization and stuff around it is mistake of staff or Loctav, be aware that NO and don't blame anyone but yourself. You're doing it wrong. Managers gave us a little power we can deal with and gave us #nominators channel. It was and is completely up to us to make internal organization, not upon any staff. We could've progressed a lot more if we did that. It's not about waiting for anyone to do it, it's about doing it right now.

Edit: Regarding the organization stuff, only talking about it is not going to help anyone. Rather than that, I created a Discord server and made a little organization in it. The reason is simple - before we try it, we aren't going to know how BNG is going to work if it is organized and quick when it comes to response. Everyone interested should PM me or contact on Discord Wafu#7264, I'll invite you. Maybe it's going to work a bit more organized, maybe it's going to die after a week, but giving it a chance won't harm anyone. Thanks for the idea MrSergio. I also had idea that we'll vote our leaders here, so in the end, we would have all three things we need - organization, fast communication and leaders.
Kibbleru

MrSergio wrote:

You're saying you need a leader or some sort of manager able to keep order among the group... then what about making one?
I nominate Natsu, Sonnyc, not sure who else
Ascendance

Kibbleru wrote:

MrSergio wrote:

You're saying you need a leader or some sort of manager able to keep order among the group... then what about making one?
I nominate Natsu, Sonnyc, not sure who else
I would nominate Oko but he was robbed from us :(
HappyRocket88
I nominate Yuii- for it. I was about to suggest Natsu or Sonnyc but they were nominated already :c

I agree with Wafu, this could change but only if we do something gor it.
Karen
a qat is better for the position if it becomes a thing i think
Monstrata
What would a "BN Manager" position entail though? Is it just someone trying to get us to mod beginners' maps? I think a manager position is an option, but I feel just having a system in place to keep BN's accountable for their actions and activity should be enough.

I think BN's should be actively helping mappers and pushing maps forward. The goal of a BN is to nominate maps that they feel are worthy of a scoreboard. But currently there've been a lot of complaints about a lack of BN activity, and I think those complaints are valid. We used to have a minimum "quota" of maps to mod, and nominate per month in order to remain active. I think the old BN scoring system was good in that respect, as it kept BN's in check.

I'm curious as to what quota BN's would consider as an acceptable number of maps to mod per month? I know it really differs from person to person, but I think if we can agree on a minimum (it can be quite small) we can begin to work around that to build a system. For me, I think 6 mods and 4 icons a month is a generous number, but one that the average if not busy irl BN's (not the super active S *cough* onnyc*cough* BN's) can manage. What do you guys think of this number?

Adding new BN's is a solution to inactivity, but I think pushing current BN's to be more active is just as viable.
Wafu

Monstrata wrote:

I'm curious as to what quota BN's would consider as an acceptable number of maps to mod per month? I know it really differs from person to person, but I think if we can agree on a minimum (it can be quite small) we can begin to work around that to build a system. For me, I think 6 mods and 4 icons a month is a generous number, but one that the average if not busy irl BN's (not the super active S *cough* onnyc*cough* BN's) can manage. What do you guys think of this number?

Adding new BN's is a solution to inactivity, but I think pushing current BN's to be more active is just as viable.
About this concrete number of mods and icons, it's hard to say. (I'm not saying this because I was a bit inactive previous months) Just limiting someone to do "at least this and at least that" might be a bit forced. I agree that no activity at all leads to nothing and should be avoided. But specific number of mods ignores anything else the BN is doing. He might decide to just help newbies for one month and will give them advices more often, but will make just few mods because of that. The result might be more useful than 6 mods, yet it's not considered. "Icon 4 maps" is a bit question of luck. Having this forced might discourage BNs from modding maps that need modding and they'll rather focus on maps with great quality so they can achieve those 4 icons, therefore new mappers get almost no feedback whatsoever. If you decide to mod like 10 maps a month, it might happen that few will ignore you completely, few will make up reasons for issues that make no sense and you might suddenly end up with just 2 icons. The problem is that the activity is not tracked, only mods and icons are, so nobody knows how much you maybe helped during the month. What I mean is, rather than tracking mods and icons and setting number of maps you have to mod/number of maps you have to icon (I'm also aware we have pop, but previous system which you're referring to was considering them as lower priority), we should track every activity related to modding or helping people (in terms of beatmaps of course). Considering only mods and icons isn't perfect.

Yes, adding BNs would solve some inactivity problems a little, but we have to be aware that the number of BNs should be controllable. Organization could boost inactivity a little bit too, that's why I propose to try it.
Okoayu
I dont think forcing people to nominate a set number of maps a month is good idea, but just like for the bn test people should probably keep a certain modding activity instead?

The problem i have with a minimum amount of icons is that some could end up rushing multiple icons just to be considered "active" which obviously isnt the greatest thing for the avg quality
Natsu
wafu made a discord channel for nominators, but then again chat apps outside the game aren't something that would work well, I remember the skype group from before, also we have a nominator channel in game let's make that one active instead, alot of people like me don't use discord that much, also we have already a discord group http://puu.sh/qg7Hg.jpg

About the activity I'd say that is better to have a minimun of mods per month instead of icons. But having not activity requirement at all is bad IMO.
Topic Starter
Sonnyc
BN Manager? Could happen perhaps, if people feel the need of it and can define their roles. BN activity? Might be worth discussing to make things clear. However I'd like this kind of discussion happening in other appropriate spot since those are being off topic in here imo.

Let's stay on topic here to focus on the original question. Any inputs (duplications are fine too!) are welcomed to make sure the vision to be some common stuff. If there are no extra inputs regarding the vision for weeks, let's try concluding this issue at then.

But let's try focusing on the topic now.
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