-Kamikaze- wrote:

I can understand not liking the changes, you may have valid reasoning for that as well, but requesting a revert to old set of rules because some people dislike it is uncalled for in my opinion. How about just play along and see how it goes so we can learn from it and adjust the rules to be better for the next MWC?

LastExceed wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I can understand not liking the changes, you may have valid reasoning for that as well, but requesting a revert to old set of rules because some people dislike it is uncalled for in my opinion. How about just play along and see how it goes so we can learn from it and adjust the rules to be better for the next MWC?

I was actually looking for people who do like it in particular because I am interested in pro-arguments, but i honestly wasn't able to find ANYONE. The only opinion that somewhat goes into that direction is rohen04's it could be interesting (which you find on this thread).

The thing is that its not SOME people who don't like it, but EVERYONE. I can't even find any pro arguments, seems like this really IS a devs playground for testing. And theres even set up a 1900$ price pool for it wtf.

I've been looking forward to this forever, there's no way I'm gonna resign now.

Btw why has my post been removed and why wasn't i notified?

1. "it's too late now" is just the result of not giving an argument for a long enough time
2. "we need to test v2 somewhere" has nothing to do with an official tournament.
3. "raw skill will edge out in the end" is plain wrong (/u/lEdelWeiss and me are the perfect example: He has excellent accuracy which is why have no chance on easy maps against him, while I usually beat him on hard maps. Now who's the better one?)

FrenzyLi wrote:

Reply to LastExceed:

"Raw skill will edge out in the end is plain wrong" is plain wrong, because neither you nor the person you reference is really at the end. You forgot to take the limits. (Jakads hope you pardon my savage, but) even jakads and j<beep> is not in the end.

1. Just don't rage due to the fact that this is a dev test ground with prizes.

LastExceed wrote:

If you want me to stop posting, then provide a single solid argument, because

1. "it's too late now" is just the result of not giving an argument for a long enough time Is a result of not having enough time to properly test everything, arguments were given even before the thread was made iirc
2. "we need to test v2 somewhere" has nothing to do with an official tournament. If you make a new weapon, testing it on a shooting range will not give you enough data about it, you need to test it in actual combat (even if improvised). That's exactly the case here, the format is being tested in practice to see how well it does and to take lessons from it so it can be refined and polished for the next one.
3. "raw skill will edge out in the end" is plain wrong (/u/lEdelWeiss and me are the perfect example: He has excellent accuracy which is why have no chance on easy maps against him, while I usually beat him on hard maps. Now who's the better one?) EdelWeiss has a raw skill advantage on easier stages and you have on later stages, in a tournament setting that makes you equal assuming that the diffrences between you are similar. Teams consist of 6 players, if you have players who can do good and edge out opposition on specific stages, then they are still going to win even with those new rules. As stated before (somewhere): the world champions should be able to play absolutely everything by themselves or as a team.

FrenzyLi wrote:

Reply to LastExceed:

From my point of view, the single argument against your "rage posts" (posts containing rage) at the current time could be:

1. Just don't rage due to the fact that this is a dev test ground with prizes.

There is no argument against you posting ordinary non-rage posts at the current time. I think you're still welcomed in this discussion as long as you do not express rage; for example, I like to read your post in the scorev2 thread.

FrenzyLi wrote:

Also, respect privacy rights of other people. I would exercise caution when I post chat logs, for example.

Halogen- wrote:

Somewhat tangential, but also somewhat related... is there going to be anyway to play/practice on Score v2 outside of multiplayer before the tournament? I find this to be a bit of a hurdle for getting accustomed to the new changes, and I don't particularly enjoy having to play with others when I want to practice on my own. I can't control my targeted sessions that way. =/

rohen04 wrote:

Not only that, you have to be a supporter as well

LastExceed wrote:

rohen04 wrote:

Not only that, you have to be a supporter as well

Nope, scoreV2 is also available on the beta stream which is free for everyone.

juankristal wrote:

As Kamikaze said we will do some testings tomorrow to see what can we do. I still think changing stuff now is a nope for the low amount of time that we do have but worth the shot.

How about if you also try to give some data and input related to that? Like people already said, your post was just some images telling how bad this is without real arguments and if I have to guess thats why it was deleted.

We will see what do we find tomorrow

LastExceed wrote:

ok first of all I wanna apologize for my rude behaviour, I was upset and acted carelessly.
Second, I think I mentioned enough con-arguments, but I can list the main ones again:
- since some people see visual mods as handicap while others find them helpful it would strongly depend on the type of player a country is represented by instead of their actual skill
- banning mods in the default bracket makes no sense other than upsetting players who prefer them since they can be skinned anyway so you can just leave them in
- mod multipliers are very unbalanced atm and overall yet to be discussed
- it makes no sense to give a choice between 2 mods that have different multipliers
- the absolute majority of players doesn't like this system overall (its your choice whether you make this tournament for the community or for development purposes)

I'd rather say it's your turn to give some pro-arguments. the only one I recall atm is "we need to test scoreV2 somehow", which brings us back to con-argument #5.

Also, what about the testing results you mentioned?

EDIT: btw am I allowed to pick HD/FI ADDITIONALLY in the mod bracket when I decide to pick HR?

-Kamikaze- wrote:

LastExceed wrote:

ok first of all I wanna apologize for my rude behaviour, I was upset and acted carelessly.
Second, I think I mentioned enough con-arguments, but I can list the main ones again:
- since some people see visual mods as handicap while others find them helpful it would strongly depend on the type of player a country is represented by instead of their actual skill
- banning mods in the default bracket makes no sense other than upsetting players who prefer them since they can be skinned anyway so you can just leave them in
- mod multipliers are very unbalanced atm and overall yet to be discussed
- it makes no sense to give a choice between 2 mods that have different multipliers
- the absolute majority of players doesn't like this system overall (its your choice whether you make this tournament for the community or for development purposes)

I'd rather say it's your turn to give some pro-arguments. the only one I recall atm is "we need to test scoreV2 somehow", which brings us back to con-argument #5.

Also, what about the testing results you mentioned?

EDIT: btw am I allowed to pick HD/FI ADDITIONALLY in the mod bracket when I decide to pick HR?

Okay so:
#1 - That is fine in my opinion because 1) that's still a part of tactics around the tournament to either get a player to learn the mod or pick one who already can do the mod 2) people who find those mods to be helpful more often than not will struggle on nomod so you have a drawback either way

#2 - Those mods are banned (or moved to nomod rather) exactly because they can be skinned away and the effects of them can be neglected or neutralized by a decent amount. While I personally would leave FI in, that's staff's decision and I understand it

#3 - They are not yet to be discussed, they have been discussed and after I've tested some things (p/5317537 and presented it to smoogi he said the multipliers will be adjusted

#4 - That's arguable, while that is a valid point, I personally think that the harshness of the timing windows on OD10 + HR (+/- 24,5ms for 300, +/- 11,5ms for a max) warrants a slightly bigger multiplier to reward top tier accuracy more

#5 - I don't find that argument, or at least the back half of it a good excuse to just abandon all changes. People are afraid of changes, especially when you're changing something that has roots VERY deep in the community. I also can bet that half of the players hating on the changes didn't test it and just saw screens of the first version with 500k S score and other type of broken things alongside, while they may not be aware of all the changes and adjustments that have been done to v2 since then

And yes, you can use HD/FI alongside HR (since HD/FI and FL cancel out eachother) in freemod, they just count the same as nomod.

-Kamikaze- wrote:

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

LastExceed wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

I still dont understand how that would eliminate the visual handucap because your screen would still be covered. Adding a skinned cover would even increase the handicap since that way you have maximum shadow ALL THE TIME. I do understand the judgement line thing you mentioned for FI though.
But even if it was possible to completely remove the shadow and regain full vision, why is that a reason to bann the mod? Theres no advantage to it

Halogen- wrote:

The shadow distance is not the largest inhibitor for everyone - it's the shadow changing position that turns out to be an issue.

-Kamikaze- wrote:

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

Tidek wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

Thats why FL is easier for most people because of stable vision area so you dont need any lanecovers.

I dont know whether staff realize that FI doesnt help in reading for 99,9% people even with lanecovers about staff is scared (heh, make FL vision area combo dependent and almost everyone will make lane covers for it) and make FL as a pick in freemod bracket (with score multiplier) that is significantly easier for most people than FI (we have also FL mains) is totally absurd.

Yes, I feel better with FI than with FL because my reading is focused on top of the screen (upscroll) so FL is unplayable for me and putting FI free to pick in nomod bracket is like saying "fu*k you" to those people because they will do better without mods and automatically put them on worse position in freemod bracket.

Atm its totally favourzing players who are more capable with FL, unfortunately.

Halogen- wrote:

I'm pretty sure what Loctav said means you can use them in both, the only difference is that HD/FI do not satisfy the requirement of mods used in free mod. That means that you could have a team doing no mod, no mod, HR and satisfy the condition of it because of the HR player, but you can't have a team doing no mod, no mod, HD because HD is not considered eligible for qualifying for FM. One of the players would need to add either HR/FL (obviously will be HR because HD + FL = nope).

-Kamikaze- wrote:

FI on upscroll does the exact same thing as on downscroll. And why FI? Because FI unlike HD forces you to cut your scroll speed to about 40% just to be able to read it properly. On HD, you're using a scroll speed relatively close to your nomod scroll so it's not that hard to learn it. However FI requires a lot more practice.
Also for the "who even plays FI" question - everyone who has their focus point on the screen (the area where you look at notes) below middle and/or people who play on relatively slow scroll speed. If you have your focus point directly in the middle, FL will be better for you, but if you look lower - FI is the way. I myself prefer FI over FL actually.

blackout3015 wrote:

...

Optionally, everyone can activate Hidden or FadeIn at any map they choose.

Soul Evans wrote:

I know not everyone is gonna agree with this but.
I think having scoreV2 in official MWC would be a really fun experience, you know why? because think about the ''challenges'' you are facing as a player that way, getting everyone off their comfort zone, where everyone could have an advantage (or not) on a lot of things, it would be a truly significant experience to people in this MWC. If you're not a wuss about loosing your precious ''prize and profile badge' then this might be the best thing that could come to you as a player, i'm pretty sure winning a tourney when you're that high leveled in skillset you'd be pretty much bored and wouldn't find it

remotely interesting at all. plus on the other hand this could actually furthen the development for our beloved game mode, it would be pretty hilarious seeing one of the top 4k players getting these absurd scores and would be pretty entertaining to watch from viewers perspective aswell imo, so yeah i'm not really doubting the staffs choices on it at all, it's something i'm looking forward to see and remember lmao.

Halogen- wrote:

Soul Evans wrote:

I know not everyone is gonna agree with this but.
I think having scoreV2 in official MWC would be a really fun experience, you know why? because think about the ''challenges'' you are facing as a player that way, getting everyone off their comfort zone, where everyone could have an advantage (or not) on a lot of things, it would be a truly significant experience to people in this MWC. If you're not a wuss about loosing your precious ''prize and profile badge' then this might be the best thing that could come to you as a player, i'm pretty sure winning a tourney when you're that high leveled in skillset you'd be pretty much bored and wouldn't find it

remotely interesting at all. plus on the other hand this could actually furthen the development for our beloved game mode, it would be pretty hilarious seeing one of the top 4k players getting these absurd scores and would be pretty entertaining to watch from viewers perspective aswell imo, so yeah i'm not really doubting the staffs choices on it at all, it's something i'm looking forward to see and remember lmao.

was the bolded part really necessary

blackout3015 wrote:

Was trying to look at it from a top player's perspective i mean, the whole point of the tourney should be competing and challenging yourself am i wrong?
And i find it pretty stupid to fear over score v2 because you wouldn't win easily.

You are completely wrong... Yes i get it for people like you are not predicted to be finalists can say that its not about winning, but did you think about the ones like Halogen- and his other teammates who have already won one championship and due to the change in rules they might not be able to win again. Did you watch the 2015 4k world cup? I mean they definitely deserved it, from the accuracy, the combo and the score, they defeated every single country in this world. They did not just win because they followed the rules or better at manipulating it by finding the best player for certain mods etc. So if you think in their persepctive, every one of them wants to win and its the reason why they took the hassle to sign up and even create a thread like this, you get me? Competitiveness is already real.

1. winning a tournament that is about something new/a specific cathegory doesnt make you a "champion" in general
2. a bracket where FI/HD are optional isnt NoMod
3. a bracket where you're forced to use a mod isn't FreeMod

LastExceed wrote:

This tournament should be called "V2 tournament" instead of "world cup", just as the brackets should be called "free-bracket" and "mod-bracket" instead of "NoMod" and "FreeMod", because

1. winning a tournament that is about something new/a specific cathegory doesnt make you a "champion" in general
2. a bracket where FI/HD are optional isnt NoMod
3. a bracket where you're forced to use a mod isn't FreeMod

It's not bad the way it is, the names are just very misleading.

LeHuuks wrote:

Hii, i'm 2k full 4k, can i go for the MWC :3
And btw, only 1 team allowed ?

LeHuuks wrote:

Oh shit :/ is there any other way to rgister or its closed closed ?

-Classy wrote:

Why wasn't there an announcement for signups in the client?

I've seriously been waiting a long time to sign up, only to find they've already closed...

What.

So there is seriously nothing I can do? Im screwed?

-Classy wrote:

Why wasn't there an announcement for signups in the client?

I've seriously been waiting a long time to sign up, only to find they've already closed...

What.

So there is seriously nothing I can do? Im screwed?

Cryolien wrote:

here was an announcement in the news section here since nearly a month ago though. That probably would've sufficed

LastExceed wrote:

Cryolien wrote:

here was an announcement in the news section here since nearly a month ago though. That probably would've sufficed

-Classy does have a point in here since all other world cups were announced both in the client AND in the news feed.

juankristal wrote:

I am already shaking

Piggy wrote:

Is it allowed that I will be in another country when the cup is happening?

Piggy wrote:

Is it allowed that I will be in another country when the cup is happening?

-Kamikaze- wrote:

SOFT squad assembled o7

InBigSister wrote:

Loctav
Hello
I am from Macao OSU！Mania！ Player.
I world like to ask you about this 4k World Cup.
I have entered the competition.
But why the Players list without me.
My ID is InBigSister

WalterToro wrote:

A very minor detail, Chile now uses UTC-4, it changes back to UTC-3 on August, 13th.

Grek69 wrote:

Hello i've got a question and it is how can i enter? Im #5 in spain but im not in but i see a #24 and he is in the team...

lim38 wrote:

Can we use the fallback version on the mwc? Does the score couldl be changed if we use this version?

Feerum wrote:

Is this now good or...?

Feerum wrote:

Is this now good or...?

juankristal wrote:

lim38 wrote:

Can we use the fallback version on the mwc? Does the score couldl be changed if we use this version?

You need to use at least Stable for the MWC. You cant use fallback.

lim38 wrote:

Okay thanks, because my accuracy is less good than the Fallback version. Need to play on Stable version to try to fix it.

juankristal wrote:

lim38 wrote:

Okay thanks, because my accuracy is less good than the Fallback version. Need to play on Stable version to try to fix it.

Thats because V2 is not implemented on fallback. So when you have songs that are OD8 or higher the accuracy room is tighter.

owenviau1 wrote:

fuck too late to sign up

WalterToro wrote:

Quick question, When the support banners will be released?

Todestrieb wrote: