This is my first venture into this part of the forums, so please excuse me if this is formatted incorrectly or I'm leaving something out.

I'm currently unhappy with what we consider "contributing most to the mapset." The current rule says that "No guest mapper should have more difficulties in the mapset than the creator" and that "The person who should upload the map is the one who contributed most to it." The latter statement is a rather obscure supplement to the rule itself, and as such, we've interpreted it in a way that allows mappers to be really lazy; a mapper is allowed to map only one difficulty in the mapset, and get guest diffs to fill in the rest of the spread. This is irritating, and doesn't really adhere to the rule.

Personally, I'd like for the uploader of the map to map at least twice as many of the guest diffs they've gotten, but I also think tv sizes should be unrankable, so that extreme would most definitely be out of the question. Rather than that, it would be best to at least raise it so that the mapper who uploaded the set should have to map 2 or 3 spread difficulties in order to "contribute the most to the set." As of now, all that sentence means is that if they upload it and update it, they're contributing the most.

I agree this is kind of a grey area as it's difficult to put a value to a person's "contribution" relative to the others in the set. On the one hand, it's a little annoying weird to see someone map an Easy, get GDs for Normal-Extra, and then take the credit as the "main contributor".

On the other hand, mapping the difficulties themselves might not be the sum total of their contribution - what if they spent days making an epic storyboard, or the song had really complex timing that they did themselves? What if they hitsounded all of the GD diffs as well as their own? How would these contributions get taken into account?

Well, honestly there is not a big reason behind this. Guest mappers HAVE the choice to map the difficulty or not and if they do, they obviously agree with the uploader - They literally allow him to upload it as his map. This is all about agreement, not about "I mapped the harder diff than you, so I will upload it", this was aimed quite towards JBHyperion, because difficulty level is quite irrelevant, someone mapping the easiest diff might also have the best difficulty, so it's not a thing to consider.

More importantly, this rule would limit player a lot more than improve the professional appearance of the map. For example, imagine 3 guys who come in with idea: "Hey, let's map this song, everyone one difficulty, you take Easy, I take Normal, you will take Hard, okay?" - Now it requires them to expand the spread, no matter that Insane would require random mapping or overmap - in that case, 2 Hards would appear in the map, which would not help the map in any way. Being lazy does not mean you mapped same count of difficulties as other guest mappers, if other mappers agree you contributed the most, you are the main contributor.

It is not about difficulties, this would just override the spread rules. Usually, guest mapper would make one diff, in that case, you currently don't need to worry about it. If the spread is full, but you find out some guest mapper does have more diffs than you, but it is not cool to make 2 of same diffs or does not deserve harder diffs, you could delete one of his maps, it is sad, but you don't completely remove him from mapset. In this case, you would sometimes have to kick all mappers into face with: "Sorry, I need to have more diffs than you, other guy's diff was just better, so you are out of the mapset and I will remake the diff you mapped." So it would just result in disallowing some guest mappers from mapping guest difficulties and would discourage them from doing it, because even if they are confident with their mapping quality, there would be a chance of removal because of such a minor reason.

Another thing is the real participation on the beatmap. Even though this is naive to appreciate own map, but I think I can afford it at this point.
This beatmap would be unrankable in terms of this rule: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/248373
This is my best map so far. It is 2-diff spread - Making harder diff would require jumps or overmap, it is insensible, the song is pretty much chilly. Easier diff would be possible, but this spread is allowed, firstly, because you must have at least 2 diffs, one of which must be below 2 stars - Both are below 2 stars, secondly, because the BPM is so low so makes it even easier. This is where problem with overriding spread rule happens, even though spread is okay, I need to make easier diff OR make the Normal diff and removing the GD if I felt like easy below 1.35 stars was too low or I couldn't find a way to map it. Back to the map, I picked this one, because it is a great example of what contribution really is.

If I compare my job and GDer's job:

Guest mapper

1. Created 1 diff
2. Maybe poked one guy for a mod

Me

1. Created 1 diff
2. Got most mods and people to qualify the map
3. Made a storyboard
4. Hitsounded the map (39 hitsound files, 355 inherited points)
5. Timed the song, got the mp3 and all other files

Overall work around the beatmap is what says how much did someone contribute and that's what GDers will always recognize. I don't see any critical reasoning behind this, why do we want to kill GDers and annoy mappers about subjective problem that is just: "You are lazy, make one more diff so you have more than others.", it does not kill map's quality in any way, and adding this rule probably could - Kicking off the GDers, speedmapping new diffs, graveyarding the mapset etc. I even doubt we need the old rule, it sounds pretty outdated, I feel like it is for those who are offended to see a guest difficulty.

No
Just no
I have to agree it seems lazy, but it's not
Think about collab mapsets
Both mappers made 2 diffs. What's bad about that?
Or hybrid set
If there are 6 std diffs by A, and 6 taiko diffs by B, you'd say A must map 12 diffs
Just no

Wafu wrote:

If I compare my job and GDer's job:

Guest mapper

1. Created 1 diff
2. Maybe poked one guy for a mod

Me

1. Created 1 diff
2. Got most mods and people to qualify the map
3. Made a storyboard
4. Hitsounded the map (39 hitsound files, 355 inherited points)
5. Timed the song, got the mp3 and all other files

This is basically what people do not see. I know I have done GD's for mappers and I have honestly told them "poke me when there is a mod for my map" and did nothing else for the mapset. Now - on the same note - I have taking in a few GD's on my mapsets as well. I am working my ass off to try to get mods for their difficulties. I work to try to find timers to help with my map if I feel it is off. I either make the storyboard or ask someone else to make it if I can not. I ask for testplayers so I can figure out if the set plays well. For all of my maps that either has or had GD's on it, yes I made more diffs than my GD people, but that is beyond the point I am trying to make. The point I am trying to make is just like how Wafu put it, the person who submitted the mapset is normally the one busting their ass to make sure that the map is ready for rank. They are the ones letting everyone know that mods are up. They are the ones who - if timing is off - has to spend the time going and correcting that timing. Just because the finished project has me doing an easy, someone doing a normal and someone else doing a hard does not mean that i did not contribute the most out of the mapset.

Ok, but this is what I see most of the time.

• map uploader:

1. mapped 1 diff
2. hitsounded (VERY basic, no custom)
3. no sb
4. poked 2-3 people for mods, then a bn, which easily got ranked because it was a TV size all along
5. timing was't dynamic
   
   Everyone else:
6. mapped one diff
7. maybe hs'd themselves, probably not
8. poked maybe one guy for a mod

They both, essentially, did the same thing. Furthermore, you are arguing that can't/don't want to map AT LEAST one more easy diff, which takes very little effort. Sure, there are people that go the distance and hitsound crazy well AND make a storyboard, but how often do you really see that happen?

I don't see how forcing people to map more diffs can improve the quality lol.. in any case the quality will be lower, this is fine how it is at the moment.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/153352

If you want to map more by yourself, the go a head, but forcing others just will lower the quality with lazy diffs. Also there is no way to measure the contribution in a mapset anyways, mods, hitsounds, storyboard, finding BG, encoding adding video, doing updates etc. If people that make GDs don't have problem with it, why should other people complain then? If the map have good quality and good spread that should be enough.

As much as I'd want to see more mappers mapping more by themselves, community doesn't seems to encourage to do so.

To those people saying uploader has the most contribution due finding modders, nominators, etc., please don't use that argument. Under that logic one can make a (good) song, hitsound, add SB/video, and more, and letting all the map being Guest Difficulties and be good.

So current rule seems to work atm.

DakeDekaane wrote:

To those people saying uploader has the most contribution due finding modders, nominators, etc., please don't use that argument. Under that logic one can make a (good) song, hitsound, add SB/video, and more, and letting all the map being Guest Difficulties and be good.

What is this supposed to mean?

Basically doing everything that is not mapping, which ends up in more workload (=more contribution) than those who mapped GDs.

I mean he's saying to not use that as an argument and Idk why

Guess he means that no matter how much you contribute to the content of a mapset outside of solely placing circles around you still have to take a significant part in mapping as well. That's what I understood anyways.

Unless we are logging our hours per piece of the project, youre not going to be able to quantify how much "work" one person has done over another. besides finished pieces. Honestly, I really dont feel that going through that level of detail just to calculate if a contribution was significant enough to qualify for sufficiency. Keep it simple: You host the set, you need to provide an equivilent amount playable maps as others contributing maps to the set. We run kudosu on the maps only, not skin or storyboard. This mapset contribution should run in the same manner with regards to ranking.

osu! is a game, not the lazy police.
I've never understood why people care so much about if a mapper is lazy or not. What's important should be the quality of the mapset, not who contributes the most to said mapset.

The only time this should be relevant is when there is an actual dispute as to who should be the one to upload the map. If there is none, then all mappers in the mapset have agreed that they're fine with the uploader being who it is. And if there is a dsagreement, I doubt a GDer would want their difficulty in that mapset if they disagree that the mapset is not theirs, and would pull those diffs out from the set anyway.

Of course, encouraging people to map more difficulties in their mapset is a good thing, as it also makes it easier to keep consistency in mapping style overall in the mapset, but forcing them to map several difficulties that they might not have any ideas for (creativity is a hard thing) won't result in a better map.

With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.