Kayla wrote:

Tassadar wrote:

rank 11k. highest pp score 200pp on a 3.62 star DT just over a minute long.
how can you fairly judge this map then? what gives you the right to say it's bad? you can't even comprehend it either.

I'm not saying rank matters - it's just by your own logic, you shouldn't be trying to form your own opinions. He's an incredibly experienced and knowledgeable mapper. You don't always need to be able to play it to comprehend it (though it is good if you can - but not necessary in every single case).

that 200pp play is a complete joke, that map is overweighted. i have better plays worth less.

i replied that way because he said he "played it and enjoyed it"
that is the only reason i brought up rank, because he said he played this map.
and yes i think you do actually need to atleast be 4 digits to understand 8.5 stars within ranking criteria. ive been rank 3k and i still think that 7 star maps are pushing it for ranking. 8.5 is just silly.

4 digits is way too low to understand 8.5 stars, and a tad too low to understand even 7 stars completely probably
also does he really need to put /s at the end of "I enjoy 3 minutes of 8.5 stars and 2 minutes of 2.5 stars", I thought it was apparent that he was joking lmao

Tassadar wrote:

4 digits is way too low to understand 8.5 stars, and a tad too low to understand even 7 stars completely probably

you overestimate 7 stars bruh

squirrelpascals wrote:

Heya, decided to stop by and take another look at this map after seeing it got bubbled, because who can forget a map like this

hi

00:41:339 (5,1,2) - I don't feel like this plays well at all; at this speed; with 2's placement at least I feel like players will hold on the sliderhead of 1 causing sliderbreak-itis Fair enough. I moved 2 closer to 1's slider-end.

00:49:081 (1,2,3,4) - space 2 and 3 more? dont see why not True. changed the pattern here.

00:50:710 (3,1,2,3,4) - how does this flow make sense? It does...? It plays well for me. The flow is inward and creating cross shapes. It's a flow i use a lot in my jumps.

01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I feel like your putting all of your focus into the theme and ignoring flow. the sliders are ugly and all and that's fine but as a result the flow in this pattern is deficient. I use this pattern in the example below but it gets far worse at 02:26:362 This flow analysis is just wrong... Please consider the kicksliders as circles and analyse the movement based on that. you'll see the actual movement is a simple back/forth zigzag pattern. Sliders are calculated to be short enough to avoid ever slider-breaking and they are arranged so that the slider-ball is going in the same direction as the player's general movement direction too.



01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I don't feel like a 280bpm stream jump would be very adequate even for exageration, just make eack 3,4 a kickslider or something Nah, i prefer the stream. I think it's quite fitting here after those kicksliders.

02:27:195 (1,2,3,4) - This flows so randomly and object placement is just haphazard This flows perfectly fine. I think you just analyzed the flow incorrectly...

02:29:099 (3) - with this specific sliderend being right next to the sliderhead I feel like this will call for a lot of sliderbreaks That won't happen though... slider-ends being next to slider-heads won't cause breaks, if anything it would prevent breaks because only sliderhead/ticks/tails are factored in to sliderbreaks... (take HW's Notch Hell map for example).

02:31:563 (2) and 02:32:206 (8) - make it flow down less, players are going to jump straight toward the next circle yet these sliders are directed otherwise, causing breaks n stuff Same as above, your flow analysis isn't accurate to how the patter will actually be played.


One other thing I feel needs work on this map with it's theme of ugliness is the difference between an ugly and awkward overlap. An overlap can play well but still not look pretty. This is for all the points listed below

00:32:117 (4,1,2) - 4 and 2, the flow here feels so confined and cramped imo Flow's fine to me... its a counterclockwise inward flow.

00:37:822 (3,2,7) - I don't see a reason not to place this where 00:38:463 (2) is besides ugliness; this is just very out of place from 00:38:463 (2,3,4,5,6) making it awkward Already explained this on Shiirn's mod, It's done for a second sharped flow revolution before the jumps spiral out of control and structure.

01:36:022 (5,1) - the way this slider dips curves downward after flowing upward The flow is fine here. actually it plays quite well... Also factor in slider-leniency too.

kickslider patterns at 01:38:058 through 01:39:451 - and 02:26:362 through 02:31:028 - see above mod for 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) . In the case of overlaps, i feel this happens because of the random spacing between each sliderhead. (Some of the patterns you use a gradual spacing increase between each; those overlaps have reasoning in them and thats fine) All slider-heads are visible, which is what's most important. I would say it's the only factor too because from the arrangement you can already see where all the sliders are pointing (their general direction anyways).

This is just a clutter: 01:38:808 (8,2) -


Just stated some general stuff. I tried to respect your maps theme as much as I could; sorry if I infringed it. I just feel like this map is still in lack of some fundamentals because of its focus. Also, this is my first time modding a map with such an sr (i dont think im the only one here tho) so sorry if i messed up in that manner.

Thanks for the mod!!

Nyari wrote:

ITT a ton of people who cannot comprehend the map nor mapping complaining about star rating and their correlation to ranks with some "I can't play this therefore it's a bad map"


Seriously, if you don't like the map, don't play it. Everyone being able to play a certain map isn't a part of the ranking criteria, nor is mapping in a certain way.

this isn't art it's a game, there's nothing complex to comprehend

Nyari wrote:

ITT a ton of people who cannot comprehend the map nor mapping complaining about star rating and their correlation to ranks with some "I can't play this therefore it's a bad map"


Seriously, if you don't like the map, don't play it. Everyone being able to play a certain map isn't a part of the ranking criteria, nor is mapping in a certain way.

lol no, the issue is how a low quality extremely high star rating map can get bubbled so casually when its almost impossible for anyone else besides Mazzerin to get the same response (probably because his maps are extremely well designed with tons of effort put in to making it as high quality as possible), and its pretty obvious this map isn't even made to be quality, its only made to be a very high star map because "le harder is le cooler xd". Either put effort into making something of quality or just don't make the ranking system become worse than it already is, oh wait that one triangle only map got ranked so looks like that's already done. It baffles me how people continue to deny the mapper circle jerk still.

Reddit wrote:

Nyari wrote:

ITT a ton of people who cannot comprehend the map nor mapping complaining about star rating and their correlation to ranks with some "I can't play this therefore it's a bad map"


Seriously, if you don't like the map, don't play it. Everyone being able to play a certain map isn't a part of the ranking criteria, nor is mapping in a certain way.

lol no, the issue is how a low quality extremely high star rating map can get bubbled so casually when its almost impossible for anyone else besides Mazzerin to get the same response (probably because his maps are extremely well designed with tons of effort put in to making it as high quality as possible), and its pretty obvious this map isn't even made to be quality, its only made to be a very high star map because "le harder is le cooler xd". Either put effort into making something of quality or just don't make the ranking system become worse than it already is, oh wait that one triangle only map got ranked so looks like that's already done. It baffles me how people continue to deny the mapper circle jerk still.

There needs to be no mapper favouritism. Guarantee if this was made by anyone else it wouldn't have had the attention it does, it would be just another shitty graveyard map

Intro section, this 01:22:624 (1) - one, and 02:26;362 (1,2) - this one are played in triplets (1/3s). In last section even vocal doesn't justify 1/4 slider jumps as it's 1/1 not 1/2

Jaitonat wrote:

00:17:766 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -

This entire section is overmapped as 1/4th, notes mapped to the guitar should be snapped to 1/3rd. Doesnt fit well on any other offset, isnt a bpm thing either; just snap 2 1/3rd plz its awful

listen to the notes at 50% playback speed when they're all snapped to 1/3rd and they sound perfectly fine

asked a few people (Akali,BOUYAAA,etc) and i got mixed answers , but I feel that it should be 1/3 too

Reddit wrote:

lol no, the issue is how a low quality extremely high star rating map can get bubbled so casually when its almost impossible for anyone else besides Mazzerin to get the same response (probably because his maps are extremely well designed with tons of effort put in to making it as high quality as possible), and its pretty obvious this map isn't even made to be quality, its only made to be a very high star map because "le harder is le cooler xd". Either put effort into making something of quality or just don't make the ranking system become worse than it already is, oh wait that one triangle only map got ranked so looks like that's already done. It baffles me how people continue to deny the mapper circle jerk still.

brb


btw i also hear 1/3 EXCEPT for 02:26:362 (1,2) - i hear it fine this way tbh.

hello apparition wannabe

confirming from my part that guitar in intro 1/3

also, don't you feel like those patterns overextended?
01:01:151 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) -

also, while 1/4 sliders can be justified(?), I don't see much support for placing just streams there:
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
02:32:742 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -

This is seriously the worst thing I've ever seen. The only reason this gets attention and people defending it is because a relatively known mapper mapped it, seriously? If some rank 50k made this and tried to rank it there's no way in hell it'd be possible. If this gets ranked the ranking system needs a serious overhaul.

Also ITT 9Ks battling with 10Ks over who has the better plays, I fucking can't

Should be 1/3 as said above

there are still alot of questionable things in the map imo though

rythm is kinda fucked in some places like here 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - etc i'm guessing you're doing that kickslider stuff because vocals go crazy or something but you're not following the vocals so yea feels super weird

some pretty ugly overmaps too like 01:37:362 (2,3,4,5) - idk it's probably not 1/4
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - this one is pretty lol with the streamjumps and all

don't have time to look at the rest but yea

idk

I won't be commenting on the playability of the map because i'm only rank 6k (LUL). Instead, a few things come to mind. Let's take a look at some facts about this map.

1) This map would have the highest star rating of a ranked map in the game
2) The map has 2 minutes of 3* mapping (yes, it fits that part of the song)
3) The map boasts a load of really ugly-looking patterns and sliders which are most likely awkward to play. According to the mapper, this is intentional.
4) The map was speedbubbled after a few mods
5) People have pointed out several mistimed sections

In my opinion, combining facts 1 and 2 shouldn't be happening. It's generally considered wise to keep the map's difficulty somewhat consistent, as far as the song allows for it. This map is straying away from the principle by a huge margin. The first half is only playable by a few top players, the second half, however, is way easier. There will be no type of player who can enjoy the whole map because either the beginning will be way overwhelming or the last 2 minutes will be a painful bore. This song is clearly not suitable to be mapped as the hardest map in the game, yet the mapper decided to do this.

Next we come to point 3 and 4. We are talking about the fairness of the ranking system here. If a mapper who didn't have several ranked maps under his belt uploaded this map, they would be heavily criticized for the ugly mapping style. If they responded to the criticism by saying that it was intentional because the song is ugly, i can 100% guarantee you that the mapper would be literally laughed out. Nobody would ever consider the map for ranking. Most likely the map would be considered a joke and graveyard material. But this isn't what happened here. So where is the difference?

The difference in attitude towards the map was because it was mapped by a well-known person with a lot of friends in the beatmap nominator team. The current state of the ranking system lets a person who knows the right people to speedrank any map that is even reasonably decent. This happened pretty recently with Monstrata's speedranked triangle meme map. It was obvious that the map was made with memes and a funny idea in mind, yet it was quickly bubbled and ranked by his friends. This map getting bubbled now just shows how the system is heavily biased in the favor of well known mappers. It seems almost that if you have made a few maps that are high quality in the past, you don't need to keep up the quality in your future maps. Obviously this wasn't looked at very carefully if several people started pointing out mistimed sections AFTER the map already getting bubbled.

TL;DR: Map ranking system is biased towards well known mappers, who can get even low quality maps ranked with the help of their connections in the BN. Also, the song isn't fit to be the highest star rating map in the game (because of the long easy part).


As a side note, when this gets ranked (it will), you can probably start ranking some of the well-known jump practice maps, too.

joolomasta wrote:

As a side note, when this gets ranked (it will), you can probably start ranking some of the well-known jump practice maps, every unranked map too.

ftfy

Lagel wrote:

this isn't art it's a game, there's nothing complex to comprehend

Agree. At least for ranked, playability should come firs, aesthetics second.

Let's not comment on how this was speed-bubbled even if it was obvious that the map would turn devolve into another dramafest just like Genryuu Kaiko was because this... thing, was made clearly to just be hard, as hard as it can be and I'm pretty sure the nominators who pushed this knew the QAT would turn their eyes onto this as soon as it got into the Qualified section and point all the flaws from the shallow mods that preceded the bubbling.

And one can argue the artistic value of the patterns and whatever, but the same effect could probably also be achieved without turning this into a 8.5 star abomination of overspaced notes, playability is high questionable here, was this map made specifically for a number of players that I can count using the fingers in my two hands that can actually play this but was made HP 3 just so a few more can squeeze a pass? Why even bother giving this a leaderboard when there are other options that had more effort and thought put onto them, with more mods, more stars, more difficulties encompassing a larger part of the player base?

Bubbling this was just one more thing showing the circlejerking around the current meme maps that have been ranked for some time just for the sake of difficulty. The people who pushed this, like I mentioned before, knew that there would be drama and that some people would come to defend the map and now that this was brought to light most likely it will get even more attention turning the odds of this getting ranked eventually higher.

Maps are unranked because of poor aesthetics all the time, simply because there needs to be some sort of quality control; especially on something as hard as this. Just look at something recent like awaken's toumei elegy. It was unranked and remapped multiple times because of poor aesthetics, just to name one map. (there's a lot more if i could care to look around but you get the idea)

Basically, it's one thing to have poor artistic style in a map; but it's another thing entirely to just be complete shit in aesthetics. It's just unsightly.

hi dad (alien)

Default wrote:

The ugliest thing about the map is this thread.

Hmmm really makes u think...

Reddit wrote:

Default wrote:

The ugliest thing about the map is this thread.

Hmmm really makes u think...

very insightful point my friend

deetz wrote:

Reddit wrote:

Hmmm really makes u think...

very insightful point my friend

shut UP deetz

haHAA

deetz wrote:

very insightful point my friend

i think he was talkin about u detz...

jk

well
if the map is intend to be ugly then saying this map is so ugly might be a compliment instead xd

#Mind = Blown

the guitar intro sound like 1/3 for me tho lmao

Hmm alright I'll take your guy's advice and remap every 1/4 triplet into 1/3. I interpreted the 1/4's as the guitarist struggling to catch up, with the snapping intended to be 1/4, not 1/3. I think if they had intended for the guitar to be 1/3 the 2nd strum of the guitar wouldn't be so consistently early (by a few ms). That's how I interpreted it anyways.

I wanted the metal part to look aesthetically ugly and chaotic, so thanks for reaffirming my success in this map!

ok what u guys dont understand is that if the map was the same without the ugly sliders you wouldnt be complaining :\

well yea but that doesnt change the fact that it looks like complete horseshit and predates 2009 mapping

thats like sayin you'd be ok with a pile of dogshit in front of you if the owner of the dog said that it was meant to be there xd

so what if it looks like horseshit it plays and goes with the song perfectly

you open the map and theres obvious structure to be found

people are saying monstrata doesnt know shit when they cant even distinguish strucuture from pretty maps - _ -

anyhow it takes much more effort to ensure every slider fits the music than just putting straight and curved ones like any normal map so people who say monstrata put no effort into this think again

Grand mapping. This is exactly what my interpretation of this song would look like, except I wouldn't be able to pull it off and finish it. Also everyone complaining about the slidershapes being 'ugly' should calm down and think for a moment. The sliders are just as 'ugly' as the song, both in a good way.

EDIT: Also, please stop saying it goes against any 'standards of quality'.

why, you literally have no reasoning exept that it looks ugly, despite what the rc says, and the song portrays. if you says it goes against standards of quality, pull up the rc and show us where.

727th post

who givs a shit if this map is shit or not lo maximum the hormome was alrdy fukd on osu! cuz of louis cyphre rip ; /

continue the trend

already edited my shitpost hloyy -_ -


remov 280 stremjump and we'r oko dad

VINXIS wrote:

who givs a shit if this map is shit or not lo maximum the hormome was alrdy fukd on osu! cuz of louis cyphre rip ; /

I'm pretty sure some people who care about the current ranking system care whether or not a shitmap becomes the hardest ranked map in the game but that's just my opinion. If some mappers find it (insert big fancy art phrase here xd) while the vast majority of people don't then that's whatever.

P.S this is also my opinion but I can almost guarantee this map was purely made just to be the hardest ranked hopefully not map regardless of its playability or aesthetics.

it was made to look like shit/for aesthetic purposez not to be the ahrdest ranked map u can ask monstrata huimself

if som parts that actualy "boost" sr play lik shit hed proly chang it..

what needs to happen before the ranking system is changed to combat this garbage? how has this gone on so long?

There's never going to be a complete consensus on the map, because the map looks ugly because of the song.

Some inherently agree with this idea. I'm one of those people - I think the map should look chaotic and ugly, because the song is inherently chaotic, ugly and a very rough thrash song, so it seems to fit the music perfectly to me (as long as playability hasn't been hindered).
Others inherently disagree, that ugliness should never be used as an inherent concept and that this map is bad because of it.
Which is why there's never going to be an agreement. Either way it's not against the ranking criteria, so it shouldn't stand in the way of this getting ranked.

As for playability - how much playtesting has there been? The patterns seem fine to me but I'm not good enough to judge ofc (only able to pass because hp3). That should be the determining factor here imo.

deathmarc4 wrote:

what needs to happen before the ranking system is changed to combat this garbage? how has this gone on so long?

Because AFAIK your opinion doesn't matter unless you're relevant in the mapping community, and just remember that it doesnt matter how unpolished and disgusting your map is you can just say "hurt durr that's the point you silly billy xd" its like Hollow Wings all over again. Playability should always be the most important aspect of making maps for ranking. This is a fucking game to have fun clicking circles not to have fun making "artistic" maps for teh lulz that almost no players will enjoy. If you wanna argue how this map fits the song then go ahead but you could rank shit like ZigZag Hacker and most rabbit style jump maps with that argument if you wanted to.

this entire thread is a bunch of nonsensical arguing
i mean seriously listen to yourself "ewww this map isn't aesthetic where are the qats pls only aesthetic we need triangles"

opinionz dont matter in the ranking process rofl

i think its shit but its still perfectly rankable regardless of my opinion (it also is gud at wot the map is tryna do)

snoverpk wrote:

this entire thread is a bunch of nonsensical arguing
i mean seriously listen to yourself "ewww this map isn't aesthetic where are the qats pls only aesthetic we need triangles"

no the whole thread is mre of an opinion shitfest moreso than arguments implying ur talking about "sound" aguments

VINXIS wrote:

opinionz dont matter in the ranking process rofl

i think its shit but its still perfectly rankable regardless of my opinion (it also is gud at wot the map is tryna do)

Putting aside your meme speak, what do you consider the meaning of "rankable"? Shouldn't it be a map that fits the song, plays well, timed properly, and not over/under mapped?

this map is rly fun i hope it gets ranked

thats not wot it is rn

theoretically a new mapper that has a timed map, hitsounded, has combo colours, e.t.c e.t.c. can get their map ranked in the rpesent day while it used 2 be stricter in the past

as long as no1 talks sht about the map that sounds remotely relevant when ur map is qualified its 100% getting ranked

snoverpk wrote:

this entire thread is a bunch of nonsensical arguing
i mean seriously listen to yourself "ewww this map isn't aesthetic where are the qats pls only aesthetic we need triangles"

while like everyone gets hammered on because the aesthetics in their map isn't right and the map looks ugly by the BN and therefor don't want to bubble their map

i can imagine people saying that this is bs


but i guess this map makes sense tho with its uglyness

id like to see one other person who thinks this map shouldnt be ranked cuz its so ugly do what shiirn did anf actually provide timing points and concrete evidenc of anything in the map that should be noted and improved be4 ranking cuz opinions dont mean shit and dont contribute to the map at all :\

this map shouldnt be ranked cuz its so ugly

As of right now the ranking criteria allows for LITERALLY any map to be ranked so long as it is timed correctly and follow basic mapping sense (aka no double notes etc). Ranking criteria takes 0 notion of what is playable or what looks good or bad, so pointing to RC for why this should or shouldn't be ranked is useless.

Ultimately Monstrata can do whatever he wants so long as 3 BNs agree with his opinion. Even if the map is DQ'd, since the community has no ability to truly enforce their opinions upon Monstrata, all it will take is time for those with resisting opinions to give up.

If you have a problem with this, push your attention to the ranking criteria and modding / qualified process in general.



My one complaint is how this is mapped for approval with a really long spinner at the beginning and end that basically map noise. This makes this song inaccessible to 99.99999% of the community when the actual song is more along the lines of 4 minutes and thirty seconds of actual beatmapping. If Monstrata actually put forth the effort to make a full set rather than lazily find a way to get 100 milliseconds over the minimum requirement for approval people likely wouldn't have nearly as much issue.

Hello, I am a completely uninvolved BN who has never M4M'd with any other BN since he became BN and I just wanted to say that I like this map and I hope it gets ranked soon once the timing-issues have been fixed

ok cya guys

hey guys look at me im in a drama thread

if it was bubbled and you don't like it help it improve?

i think im saying this in every drama thread now but if you don't like it, ignore it.

i looked at the map and i dont rly mind tbh i want it to rank so i can get a phatty pass on it tbh

also all u slow noobs always so emotional over maps u cant play xddd

those sliders reminded me of the deus ex diff on this map lo https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38459
also isnt this too much 01:41:219 (4,1) -

i dont understand why ugly sliders = bad quality it makes no sense lol

so many shit arguments in this thread

its 0502 in the morning

have this beauty of a remap

"Pretty Ugly" quite well defines this map.

estellia- wrote:

so many shit arguments in this thread

its 0502 in the morning

have this beauty of a remap

LMAOOOOO

estellia- wrote:

so many shit arguments in this thread

its 0502 in the morning

have this beauty of a remap

L O L o l l ol o o l lo l

just goes to show how people really dont know what theyre talking about

post of the year

estellia- wrote:

so many shit arguments in this thread

its 0502 in the morning

have this beauty of a remap

10/10

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

no respect for nold ok :V

i love when people who don't understand anything that they're talking about try and criticize a map for doing what the creator intended. the messy sliders absolutely fit the style of the song, so stop being a bunch of r/osugame shitlords and take a hike. there's no reason to say that sliders done erratically mean that the "map quality" is low, if you think that you're completely shallow.

gl monstrata hope these people leave you alone soon

hey nathan lol

Yunomi wrote:

hey nathan lol

yea wots up

hi nathan!

i think it would be beautiful if the map had an ugly difficulty and a beautiful difficulty

isopaharuntikka wrote:

i think it would be beautiful if the map had an ugly difficulty and a beautiful difficulty

you really think he would make two difficulties for this song? he put a 15 second spinner over nothing at the end of the song just so he could go for marathon

deathmarc4 wrote:

isopaharuntikka wrote:

i think it would be beautiful if the map had an ugly difficulty and a beautiful difficulty

you really think he would make two difficulties for this song? he put a 15 second spinner over nothing at the end of the song just so he could go for marathon

what do u mean nothing the audio was fading out lol

The unfortunate thing is that it's literally just a matter of time. Even if a lot of people dislike the map for what it is or what it does, it's Monstrata and the circlejerk is real; it will eventually reach rank.

My opinion about this map. No one will play this, no one will FC it. So who cares if it gets ranked.

It's the same arguement most rational people have for Mazzerin maps too.

deathmarc4 wrote:

isopaharuntikka wrote:

i think it would be beautiful if the map had an ugly difficulty and a beautiful difficulty

you really think he would make two difficulties for this song? he put a 15 second spinner over nothing at the end of the song just so he could go for marathon

he could let someone else do a guest difficulty

captin1 wrote:

i love when people who don't understand anything that they're talking about try and criticize a map for doing what the creator intended. the messy sliders absolutely fit the style of the song, so stop being a bunch of r/osugame shitlords and take a hike. there's no reason to say that sliders done erratically mean that the "map quality" is low, if you think that you're completely shallow.

gl monstrata hope these people leave you alone soon

rude as me

still, does messy sliders do everything? you can perfectly fit the song with fine sliders, or even polish the "messy" sliders so they look strange but still original
it really looks random, even copypasted flipped sliders would make it at least more interesting

just my two cents, sorry for acting rude, my view of mapping doesn't help here, with such a map :')

Fort wrote:

you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort

extra effort was only needed to rank this

Giralda wrote:

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

no respect for nold ok :V

don't give that emoticon for nold it's really insulting him

i really respect nold but i didn't mention him cuz he's made a great sliders maps
nold is love nold is live, where are you nold?

i feel so sad to monstra who had taken all of his effort for this map.

i still dont understand why this shouldnt be ranked/qualified, there is no unrankable stuff on the map anyway. it is didnt play well like i expect but please respect the mapper ;;

gl monstra, i hope those guys will realize themself and can leave you alone soon

Why dont you just map the map properly and then rank it since its actually a great map made intentionally worse, its stupid that something intentionally made to look bad would even be considered for ranking it just sets a bad example of maps and its pretty much status abuse, people struggle to get their perfectly fine maps ranked and meanwhile someone who could just make a fun enjoyable map goes out of his way to cause a bunch of drama and pretty much gives a perfect example of how little actual quality matters in a map and how status is the only thing you need, that being said there is a great map below this and it blows my mind that you would intentionally make it worse, I'm really disappointed.

hey monstroti,

02:51:908 (1,1) - maybe the sv increase could increase by smaller increments cuz its really uncomfortable to play repeats on such high sv when you have to move as well.

try to remove or decrease the spacing of the jumpstreams as well since this is 280bpm

try nerfing the fullscreen jumps, i don't mean the large jumps, but i mean the actual full screen jumps like 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - even if its just a little nerf i think it would help a lot.

i don't think the sliders are ugly since it fits your theme of the map, some patterns are arguable but the slider shapes themselves are fine since you are consistent with them throughout the map.

already seen some maps go down the toilet in quality this year so i don't understand why people are freaking out over this map being "ugly". it's not that bad overall.

News flash: Telling a person to map it better without providing any mods won't make a map better.

I know modding is a hard thing to do and takes a lot of time out of mappers life. But, instead of ripping the map apart. Try to rip the map apart constructively instead.

Thanks.

Fezu wrote:

News flash: Telling a person to map it better without providing any mods won't make a map better.

well tbh i'm sure monstrata knows himself he can map it better/more appealing/more comfortable to play? he doesn't need anyone's input to remap this. He has way more than enough experience to remap this to his original style.

Haruto wrote:

i feel so sad to monstra who had taken all of his effort for this map.

i still dont understand why this shouldnt be ranked/qualified, there is no unrankable stuff on the map anyway. it is didnt play well like i expect but please respect the mapper ;;

gl monstra, i hope those guys will realize themself and can leave you alone soon

Timing maybe, but other than that it's pretty effortless. Don't mind having it ranked though if some timing and rhythm issues mentioned before are fixed, spacing seems to be good for the pace of the song. I don't really like random 280bpm streamjump and some crosscreens that are just too much on this sometimes but whatever, God bless.

good luck monstrata :v

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps
you're not irreversible who makes cs7 maps

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

fixed <3

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps
you're not irreversible who makes cs7 maps
you're not cherry blossom who makes symmetrical maps

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

fixed <3

hav u seen the singer for the metal part? he looks pretty fukin ugly in the video so i think the map fits

Fort wrote:

i don't care for your single meme :>

you're not mazzerin who map crazy deathstreams in every maps he made
you're not Ekoro who mapped Time Freeze with extra effort
you're not lesjuh who made a good map in 2009
you're not val0108 who made a really stylish sliders map
you're not hanzer who made a stream with a jump
you're not me who map a crazy fullscreen jumps
you're not irreversible who makes cs7 maps
you're not cherry blossom who makes symmetrical maps
you're not failureatosu who maps stale memes

im waiting for epic qualified posts in here (and waiting people who can pass this map without NF or HT)

nice ending btw

fixed <3

P.S. the ugliness of the sliders FITS THE SONG really well so you shouldn't change it thx bye

Yunomi wrote:

Fezu wrote:

News flash: Telling a person to map it better without providing any mods won't make a map better.

well tbh i'm sure monstrata knows himself he can map it better/more appealing/more comfortable to play? he doesn't need anyone's input to remap this. He has way more than enough experience to remap this to his original style.

The map got bubbled since Monstrata thought it was fine and ready to ship. Setting the precedent that the mapper knows best on how to improve their map means that the entire ranking system is a complete waste of time.

The whole point of the qualification process is for players/mappers to testplay and give their input on how the map plays, if they see anything that they thing could be improved or whether they see something unrankable.

The fact that this got unbubbled means there's actual issues that the mapper should fix before getting bubbled again and the mapper should recieve input about said issues with actual mods on how to improve the playability of the map. Monstrata already fixed the 1/3s which he did from input from other mappers.

Hi noob here, I'll probably be eaten alive but I might as well have a go at this.


Good luck with the map!

I am about to do a little bit of a cleanup here in this beatmap thread. While you can all discus about the map or do the modding that you consider needed remember that just posting "this map is bad, ugly whatever" is not going to help and it will be cleanned as soon as I see it.

If you dont have anything to give to the map (any kind of suggestions made in a good way) it would be better if you just step away and let it be. We can all have opinions about this map but keep this thread clean as much as you can.

I am not someone to judge a STD map since I am not a really experienced player / mapper / modder but I am going to keep an eye here in case stuff goes in a wrong way again.

ok there is my first ever mod in osu, i even had to watch ztrots osu accademy video to do it. kudosu pls

if it does the beep beep boop and the beep beep boop stays beep beep boop then no cri pls

holy fuck it's actually not bad

Arusamour wrote:

1. old mapping not bad; learn fundamental mapping from them.
2. ugly sliders are opinions, not apart of fundamental(ever-so changing factor in mapping history). If i'm a shit slider artist, you can't tell me to make "prettier" sliders.
3. aesthetics has nothing to do with rank criteria, nor quality of the map. it's purposely there, and it's consistnet. use your brain power; THINK!
4. speed ranking. nothing wrong with it.
5. if you no like-y, like-y don't complain to monstrata, complain to some guy who created the system. he will call you a dumbass though.

idk the problems with this map because im truthful; not ignorant. btw i have long shlong lma0

ok just gonna make one last comment on this cuz im triggered about these statements lo

Opinions are opinions sure, but every opinion matters. You cant just ignore every negative opinion especially when ur map is like this.

Aesthetics arent part of the ranking criteria, but the one on the wiki is seriously outdated. There's going to be a revision of it posted on the forums soon (like there was on the modding code of conduct recently that loctav posted) so dont use that as an example if you're trying to defend it.

Thre's nothing fundamentally wrong with speedranking sure, but i feel if you rank your map -too- fast it doesnt get subjected to enough opinions and as such will obviously not be as good as it could be.

And lastly, modding exists to point out issues with a map specifically to the mapper. if we can't "complain" to the mapper then who the fuck do we complain to

ok dad im leaving now hf with ur shitmap lo

Kiyohime wrote:

The unfortunate thing is that it's literally just a matter of time. Even if a lot of people dislike the map for what it is or what it does, it's Monstrata and the circlejerk is real; it will eventually reach rank.

^

Yunomi wrote:

hey monstroti,

02:51:908 (1,1) - maybe the sv increase could increase by smaller increments cuz its really uncomfortable to play repeats on such high sv when you have to move as well. It plays fine for me idk. You have to click and move the sliders independently, it'll feel like the slider-ball is following your cursor instead of you following the cursor ball. I think if you do that you shouldn't have trouble playing it.

try to remove or decrease the spacing of the jumpstreams as well since this is 280bpm I don't really want to nerf it, but I improved the structure a bit. I think the spacing between 1>3>5>7 could have thrown people off.

try nerfing the fullscreen jumps, i don't mean the large jumps, but i mean the actual full screen jumps like 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - even if its just a little nerf i think it would help a lot. Nerfed a bit. Oh, this was supposed to be for the jumpstreams, flip the replies^

i don't think the sliders are ugly since it fits your theme of the map, some patterns are arguable but the slider shapes themselves are fine since you are consistent with them throughout the map.

already seen some maps go down the toilet in quality this year so i don't understand why people are freaking out over this map being "ugly". it's not that bad overall.

Thanks for the mod!!

MCB wrote:

Hi noob here, I'll probably be eaten alive but I might as well have a go at this.

SPOILER

I can't play the map obviously, I'll just have to use whatever intuition I have to try and be of use :/

The part between 01:41:487 and 01:59:463 shows irregular sliders. Of course, you've done this before during the chaotic parts, but you've shown before in the map that you want to map the orderly parts in an orderly fashion, so why are the sliders here so oddly shaped? I'd say this part sounds quite neat and orderly and the slider shapes could better reflect that. Kinda cheeky, but If you notice, the first two sliders look pretty, and then it devolves back into chaos. This part "sounds" like it will be orderly when you first hear it, but then as you listen on, you realize the rhythm and timing is completely erratic and the Chaotic sliders come back. I ended up changing 01:47:183 (1,2) - though to become uglier to fit my original idea above^

02:21:689 (1,2) - 02:23:624 (1,2) - etc. There are some of these sliders which represent the exact same sound in the song but have a completely different shape, I'm assuming it's intentional? I feel like you could create more order within the chaos to better represent the song It's intentional.

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) For a part that's quite neat in its rhythm and sound, the shape's good, but why is the spacing so high? Your spacing approached this during the extremely chaotic parts but it seems weird to make the jumps this huge for a reasonably orderly and calm part. This is the one of the heights of the map imo. It's where the song finally transitions from chaotic 280 bpm mapping to 120 bpm mapping so here I wanted a blend of both the craziness of the first half of the map, and the structural integrity of the second half. It's why the arrangement here (along with the sliders before it) are noticeably normal, while still being really over the top.

Just some opinion: You probably noticed most of my suggestions (woah there were so many) were about the randomness factor of the map. I do know that there are a lot of parts where you decided to just let the randomness do its thing, because the song's that way. But I feel like you show in certain parts that you do care for the order of the map by doing things more neatly, but you're not doing it all the time, which isn't because the song's just that way (it certainly isn't in some parts) but because you're straying away from how the song is and approaching this randomness feature that you've created around the map and turning it into a gimmick. I'm not saying the randomness is bad, I think there should be structure within it. So I feel like you should actually be more consistent with this behaviour and make the neater parts of the song neater in the map and such. I think of the map in this way because there's definitely structure and order within the song and you definitely do interpret it, but sometimes you don't seem to show it which is a waste if you ask me :c

All in all, I really like the randomness effect but I think you can improve on it

Good luck with the map!

Thanks for the mod!! (Sorry i accidentally denied your kds cuz im bad at aiming)

Reddit wrote:

SPOILER

00:40:066 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - possibly change the pattern here to something smoother or at least lower spacing No, I want to show the jumps spiraling out of control. You can see how the pentagon/star jump pattern just dissipates into chaos.
01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - the spacing here could be a bit lower come on lmao Explained with Yumoni's post
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1) - extremely over mapped imo, this isnt a Rabbit Jumping Style map lol Explained with MCB's post.

ok there is my first ever mod in osu, i even had to watch ztrots osu accademy video to do it. kudosu pls

Thanks for your feedback!!

Sieg wrote:

hello apparition wannabe

confirming from my part that guitar in intro 1/3 yea

also, don't you feel like those patterns overextended? No, but I made some minor changes see above for changes/reasonings
01:01:151 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) -

also, while 1/4 sliders can be justified(?), I don't see much support for placing just streams there: The 1/4's exist, and in both cases I've been prepping the player with those 1/4 patterns, whether kicksliders or 1/4 repeats so they should expect some sort of 1/4 rhythm going into both of then.
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
02:32:742 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -

Remapping the guitar to 1/3 tho!

BOUYAAA wrote:

Should be 1/3 as said above yea

there are still alot of questionable things in the map imo though

rythm is kinda fucked in some places like here 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - etc i'm guessing you're doing that kickslider stuff because vocals go crazy or something but you're not following the vocals so yea feels super weird I disagree...

some pretty ugly overmaps too like 01:37:362 (2,3,4,5) - idk it's probably not 1/4 it's probably there, but it might not be. Either ways though I would want to keep, i don't think the overmap is inherently wrong, and I don't think you'll even be able to complain about a lack of a note there when actually playing (listening at 100%). The vocals support it imo.
01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - this one is pretty lol with the streamjumps and all Well, i nerfed spacing a bit~

don't have time to look at the rest but yea

idk

Thanks for your concerns!!

short mod to poitn something out cuz im not sure if anyone else has yet (not related to aesthetics)

Jaitonat wrote:

Thre's nothing fundamentally wrong with speedranking sure, but i feel if you rank your map -too- fast it doesnt get subjected to enough opinions and as such will obviously not be as good as it could be.

And lastly, modding exists to point out issues with a map specifically to the mapper. if we can't "complain" to the mapper then who the fuck do we complain to

ok dad im leaving now hf with ur shitmap lo

no, come back.

y do u care if some guy's maps r bad?? lol

Kibbleru wrote:

02:26:362 - what the actual fuck

btw u need ar 10

i agree with the AR
when you think about DT maps ranging around 260-280 bpm most of them are at 10.3 or higher. 1/4 slider jumps and cross-screen jumps in this map with AR 9.7 are very difficult to read. I know that the slower part at the end doesn't seem like it really goes well with AR 10 but i think it's a reasonable compromise (Image Material, for example, does this and the slow part doesn't feel bad with AR 10)

any1 experienced enough to play this will be able to play the slow parts fine with ar10 anyways