The plane tickets are getting expensive, so we decided to fly our private jets and had a lovely conversation about this set.
Changes:
We also agreed on 5/5/7/7 as an experiment thing, please do not use this set as an example unless you are 100% aware of what you are doing!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll be back tomorrow! Hopefully we'll make people happy with the 5/5/7/7 thingy!
Changes:
- Minor appearance fixes
- Slight rhythm improvements
- Spacing changes in Normal
Log
21:15 Bakari: Hello there!
21:28 Zetera: Hi!
21:28 Zetera: Sorry, was searching my house for something edible.
21:28 Bakari: Hope you've found something
21:29 Zetera: Sorta, yeah
21:29 Bakari: Anyways, what do you think about using AR4.5 for both E and N
21:29 Bakari: and 7 for H/I
21:29 Zetera: So, i did what you wanted, decreased the spacing in the normal, fixed the tickrate, got rid of the storyboard and implemented the AR spread.
21:30 Zetera: I think 5 for the E/N is a good approach to my assumption and your regulation.
21:30 Bakari: Just like Oko said, we'd have two blocks of difficulties, and still somewhat keep the experint to the point where we could happily have it ranked
21:31 Zetera: There's just this one thing that kind of bothers me.
21:31 Bakari: I feel like a monster, but 4,5 would be closer to Ar7 in terms of scaling
21:32 Bakari: Hard has the AR that is just right and comfortable, while Insane has it slower than the recent standards require
21:32 Bakari: Same would be with E/N and Ar 4,5
21:32 Zetera: I am wondering if it actually alienates the experience if I choose a higher AR, going away from the rhythm game mechanic to a reaction-based gameplay.
21:32 Zetera: I mean, I thought I found a value that beginners could handle easily.
21:33 Zetera: Since I haven't seen any late clicking in the replays.
21:33 Bakari: Well, take the same PewDiePie let's play as an example
21:33 Bakari: Do you see why he was clicking so early?
21:34 Zetera: What I figure is that he clicked too early because there was too much on the screen for too long.
21:34 Zetera: Another idea is that he did not focus on the music at all.
21:35 Bakari: I personally was pretty sure it's the second option
21:35 Zetera: But isn't this somehow connected?
21:37 Zetera: I am not sure whether implementing high AR takes this away or actually supports the development process.
21:37 Zetera: More than that, I am even confident that both can happen.
21:37 Bakari: I'm quite far from concepts of teaching, but I think that making players react on objects rather than adjust to the rhythm is what AR7 does
21:38 Bakari: And when they get decent scores for reactions, rather than rhythms
21:38 Bakari: Players adjust to whack-em-all mechanics, rather than learn how to keep the rhythm
21:39 Zetera: But that is only one assumption.
21:39 Zetera: The contrary to that is that players come to know the right timing much earlier and they then adapt to other maps.
21:39 Zetera: I'm thinking "introduction", not "advancement".
21:40 Zetera: Also, we don't know if they will adapt that whack-em-all mechanic or if they will be able to assign rhythm better to the objects. I hope you can understand what I mean, as my explanations are horrible.
21:41 Zetera: But basically, this is why I wanted to see this ranked with the stats they were qualified with
21:41 Zetera: To see what influence this has on players
21:41 Zetera: However this is pretty hard without any comparison
21:42 Bakari: I kind of get it, yeah. But I still want it to be lowered to a reasonble point, where you would see the impact higher AR would have
21:42 Zetera: Makes sense, but is there a lower value that does exactly that?
21:43 Zetera: I reckon that 4.5 is not enough.
21:43 Bakari: 4,5 on the easier two diffs is somehow equeal to AR7 for H/I diffs
21:43 Zetera: How come?
21:44 Zetera: Also, AR7 looks very slow, which was my goal for the higher diffs, but not for the lower ones.
21:45 Bakari: It looks just alright on Hard, though :p
21:46 Bakari: and we would have something similar running with E/N diffs (if we count 4,5 as comfortable AR for the Easy)
21:47 Bakari: Comfrotable, as this would still require faster clicking, while working relatively well with SV and spacing
21:48 Zetera: Come on, let's make it 5 so there's less waiting involved.
21:48 Zetera: 5/5/7/7.
21:48 Bakari: Are you sure?
21:50 Zetera: Hm, how do I say this..
21:50 Bakari: Sure you want to tyr it?*
21:51 Zetera: When we choose AR4.5, I figure there will be more of a time frame that newer players might do hit errors in than when using 5, while both are still values that are easily recognizable.
21:51 Zetera: This is why I thought 7 is also okay, but you said it looked disruptive.
21:52 Zetera: Because I assumed 7 is also well-readable for beginners.
21:52 Zetera: Well, hoped*, not assumed*
21:52 Zetera: So I am pretty confident that 5 works.
21:52 Zetera: Though I was also confident 7 was okay.
21:52 Bakari: Alright, here's the thing
21:53 Bakari: Let's go hrough the set, I'll make sure the rest is good to go
21:53 Zetera: Okay, I'm ready
21:54 Zetera: Got to update once more though.
21:54 Bakari: When we are over with it I'll try to get used to AR5 and think it over
21:54 Bakari: If I have no more questions, I'm bubbling it no problem
21:54 Bakari: I'll have to provide the log, though. Hope this is fine with you!
21:54 Zetera: Sure thing.
21:56 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/950640 Epik High - Fly [Easy]]
21:57 Bakari: 01:02:324 (1) - can we move the tail a little bit down, mainly for appearance, but also to make sure nobody clicks the tail by mistake
21:58 Zetera: Oh, good idea!
21:59 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/898114 Epik High - Fly [Normal]]
22:00 Bakari: 00:18:730 (2,1) - have you guys tested the jumps on low ranked players as well?
22:01 Bakari: I have a feeling they wouldn't drop off them, but rather go all the way, failing hard
22:01 Zetera: No, I did not test that.
22:03 Bakari: the drop-off concept is more of an advanced thingy
22:03 Bakari: that I don't really expect to be picked by players at these stages of growing
22:04 Zetera: True, I figured slider-100s are not too likely here, since it's only a 1/1 slider.
22:04 Zetera: I adjusted that and restructured the diff up to 00:29:980 - .
22:04 Bakari: 00:37:011 (3,4) - I assume that these guys might also need some attention
22:04 Bakari: 00:41:230 (4,1) - whoa, x2.0 is a pretty serious thing here
22:05 Zetera: Ctrl+g on 00:37:011 (3) -
22:05 Bakari: 00:46:386 (1,2,3) - this is relatively fine in terms of spacing
22:06 Bakari: however, when you visually place them in such a vai, it suggests a 3/2 gap between (2) and (3)
22:07 Bakari: 00:58:574 (1,2,3) - this is a creative idea, if there is a way to make it used in a hard, please try it there?
22:07 Zetera: What do you suggest instead?
22:09 Bakari: move (3) away, so the spacing change still can be felt here, but it's not that obvious visually
22:09 Bakari: http://puu.sh/oxOKK.jpg
22:10 Zetera: Okay, tried that.
22:13 Bakari: 01:22:949 (1,2,3) - love this. simplem neat and works great with the vocals
22:14 Zetera: Thank you. c:
22:14 Bakari: 01:42:636 (3) - I love this one and it seems to be readable due to sliderticks
22:15 Bakari: The question is, do you think players will be able to pick the slowdown well?
22:15 Bakari: 02:07:480 (4,1) - somethingsomething
22:16 Zetera: The slowdown is not too harsh, it is well visible and there are not too many sliders used in the previous bit, so I'd say the slowdown is just fine
22:17 Bakari: 02:27:636 (3,4) - you probably know it
22:17 Zetera: Used Ctrl+G
22:17 Bakari: well, if you think is fine, I will agree with you on that one
22:17 Bakari: Ctrl+G sometimes affects hitsounding, have a look into that as well, while we are at it!
22:17 Zetera: I always do, no worries.
22:18 Bakari: 02:53:886 (3,4) - a tiny spacing increase to make sure nobody reads it as 1/4 would help out a lot!
22:19 Bakari: 02:54:824 - also, I would probably try to make that beat here clickable by placing a circle or arranging the following (5) in some way
22:19 Zetera: Done and I added a NC because it includes the first beat of the next period
22:19 Zetera: I used a sliderend because it was a 3/4 slider + a circle before.
22:21 Zetera: Okay, used a 1/1 instead and a circle at the big line, that one now carries a NC
22:21 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/625661 Epik High - Fly [Hard]]
22:22 Bakari: how about making 01:00:214 (1) - the beat here a bit more stressed with a jump and a bit of rhythm changes? http://puu.sh/oxPyr.jpg
22:24 Bakari: 01:37:011 (1) - as the previous sliders had only one repeat, this one took me by surprise
22:24 Bakari: not sure if it's just my rusty skills or a thing that you'd want to change, so you decide on this one
22:25 Zetera: You got a point, but a fix involves using a triplet at some point, so I am sort of reluctant to do that.
22:25 Bakari: Well, to be fair I still got a 300 there :p
22:26 Zetera: Oh, by the way, I kept the pattern that you liked in the normal, the one with the repeat slider at the end, since Hard now has a new, harder concept.
22:26 Bakari: Good!
22:26 Bakari: 01:40:761 (4,5) - you'd be surprise to find out that Insane has a easier pattern here :p
22:26 Bakari: surprised*
22:27 Bakari: Insane has a single slder while Hard has a circle+slider
22:27 Zetera: But here, it only uses one repetition.
22:30 Zetera: I mean, I could also use only the slider, but I found that to be awkward.
22:30 Zetera: I'll do it anyway.
22:30 Bakari: Up to you, you are the creator here
22:30 Bakari: 02:05:136 (5,1,2) - can we have more things like that? <3
22:31 Zetera: Oh, you like that one?
22:31 Zetera: I didn't even like that myself LOL
22:31 Zetera: Was some kind of emergency solution
22:31 Bakari: It's cool, flows really nicely
22:31 Zetera: Yeah, flow was the first priority.
22:34 Zetera: Are the other instances of that okay as well?
22:34 Bakari: Sure!
22:36 Zetera: Okay, changed the things I agreed to.
22:39 Bakari: Air is a lot like a flying in dreams, fantasy-like, smooth and everybody would want to try it once again after finishing
22:39 Bakari: Update things
22:39 Zetera: That was a really great compliment, thanks a lot c:
22:40 Zetera: Okay, updated.
22:40 Zetera: Oh wait, the AR.
22:40 Zetera: I'll ask once more. Are you fine with 5/5/7/7?
22:41 Bakari: Yeah
22:41 Bakari: I've nothing else to add
22:41 Zetera: Alright, I'll use that then.
22:42 Zetera: okay, done.
22:43 Zetera: I was not sure which of your posts I should reward you for, should I go for the post with this log?
22:45 Bakari: I guess so
22:45 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/898114 Epik High - Fly [Normal]]
22:45 Bakari: 00:58:574 (1,2,3) - can we somehow lower spacing changes there, though? It'll be sad to see it changed, but I think it needs to be done
22:45 Zetera: Did I miss something?
22:45 Zetera: Oh, of course.
We also agreed on 5/5/7/7 as an experiment thing, please do not use this set as an example unless you are 100% aware of what you are doing!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll be back tomorrow! Hopefully we'll make people happy with the 5/5/7/7 thingy!