Do you think with newer and better monitors it's easier to read ar10?
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Does ar10 require good monitor and high FPS?
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Yes, but you can still read AR10 with 60hz.
requirepeople these days are a joke or something
in 2012 we used to read AR11 (10+DT) with no dim (because it didn't exist back then), with map backgrounds and storyboards/videos, on old 4:3 60Hz monitors
git gud. AR10 is 450ms, that's almost half a second, which is approximately like forever. even if your screen has 20 frames refresh rate that's like 9 frames you get to stare at the approach circle, which is far more than enough.
@Aqo pls teach ar10 ;w; even ar9.6 is a nightmare for filthy nomod farmer ;( jk, love you
I agree with this, better gear will not make you instantly better. WWW was making insane amazing plays with old client few years ago without good gaming gear. Practice and skill > gaming gear. Bikko is a godlike HR player and i doubt he use any 144hz monitor etc.
I agree with this, better gear will not make you instantly better. WWW was making insane amazing plays with old client few years ago without good gaming gear. Practice and skill > gaming gear. Bikko is a godlike HR player and i doubt he use any 144hz monitor etc.
literally unless your refresh rate is like 20Hz, running at 20 fps, it barely matters. it might feel smoother at higher fps and refresh rates, but your eyes physically can arguably not even detect 30 fps. in fact, 15fps can look very smooth to the eye under particular circumstances.
Playing with no dim and epilepsy storyboards HDHR is amusing. You get a bit of introspective into why a lot of pro player skins weren't fully transparent hit circles back in the day. It's funny that people spend so much time trying to find ways to get better at this game doing anything other than playing more when that time would be better spent playing more.Aqo wrote:
requirepeople these days are a joke or something
in 2012 we used to read AR11 (10+DT) with no dim (because it didn't exist back then), with map backgrounds and storyboards/videos, on old 4:3 60Hz monitors
git gud. AR10 is 450ms, that's almost half a second, which is approximately like forever. even if your screen has 20 frames refresh rate that's like 9 frames you get to stare at the approach circle, which is far more than enough.
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Kids these days just don't understand that struggling is an important part of the learning process. You'll never actually be good at anything if you expect everything to be spoonfed to you. In academics you can memorize and/or scribble down all the shortcuts on a cheat sheet and get good grades but if you never actually spent the time deriving those shortcuts by hand you haven't actually learned anything. This applies to basically all learning. "Shortcuts" don't help you learn, they are simply nice to have after you've put the time into actually learning something.
Will a mechanical keyboard magically let you stream like Gayzmcgee? No, but it sure is nice to have once you've spent the time learning to stream like he has. To be honest, he could probably stream similarly fast on a rubber dome keyboard. He might not be able to play as long before his stamina gave out in this case.
Another example, Hvick plays on a 60Hz monitor and he is indisputably the best (from a well rounded perspective) DT player in the world. He also has some of the highest AR11 OD11 accuracy out of all the people who can play it, he just chooses not to play it frequently. Would a 144Hz monitor suddenly turn Hvick into an AR11 god? Not at all. It would just be easier on his eyes from a strain perspective.
The only thing that actually matters for fps is the input delay and that is relative to OD, not AR. The OD window for 300's is ~40ms wide on OD9.6+ which means 240fps cuts off potentially 20% of your hit window (10% on either side) vs the 5% potential cutoff of 1000fps (which is getting to the point of being negligible). The amortized cut off is only half of that so honestly even 240fps is playable. You'd have to be running osu on a toaster or with vsync (which you can just turn off) to have issues with this.
Not exactly a toaster, but I have to use 240 fps limiter to be stable.Obviously it doesn't affect me in any way, especially not at this level, but I just found it interesting since I consider my computer to be pretty good to run osu!(E7300)
The other interesting thing is that when I put it on unlimited, my mouse goes crazy, can't even describe it properly, but like, the cursor kind of hops away.
I'm not really into these tech things, anyone know something about this?
Well i'm really happy that we have an option to put on a limiter.
The other interesting thing is that when I put it on unlimited, my mouse goes crazy, can't even describe it properly, but like, the cursor kind of hops away.
I'm not really into these tech things, anyone know something about this?
Well i'm really happy that we have an option to put on a limiter.
I FCed a 4.4* map with barely 30 fps
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Computers in general require a good monitor, one with good colour and contrast balance. But you don't need a "gaming" turbo monitor.
But I disagree that 30 fps is "all you need", I can't see myself delivering top scores with such ridiculous latency it even makes my mouse movement weird. I need my 0.45ms and 60hz tyvm.
But I disagree that 30 fps is "all you need", I can't see myself delivering top scores with such ridiculous latency it even makes my mouse movement weird. I need my 0.45ms and 60hz tyvm.
It does help, but I wasn't a hard rock god before I got the 144hz monitor and guess what, I can BARELY pass hard rock'd songs now. Coinicidence? I think not. How much you play, learning what your weaknesses are, and playing enough to correct them ultimately decides how good you'll get and how fast. Any fancy peripherals may and I do repeat may help you get there. But, if you want to read ar10, if you want to stream 220bpm consistently, if you want to read joint struggle w/ ez mod - no monitor, keyboard, or obstacle will stand in your way, especially if you want it bad enough. \thread
Up to 10.5 is ok for me with 60hz 240fps.
past that I can't read because I don't practice nor want to nor find it relevant
past that I can't read because I don't practice nor want to nor find it relevant
Good hardware doesn't make a player good, but it will allow a good player to play more comfortably.
Also: the whole 30FPS thing is complete BS (unless you're talking about the minimum threshold that allows the eye to perceive movement as being "smooth", but that's another issue entirely). A trained human eye can consciously perceive images even as fast as 1/220 of a second (220Hz monitor #when), although the amount of difference it would make would likely be negligible.
Also: the whole 30FPS thing is complete BS (unless you're talking about the minimum threshold that allows the eye to perceive movement as being "smooth", but that's another issue entirely). A trained human eye can consciously perceive images even as fast as 1/220 of a second (220Hz monitor #when), although the amount of difference it would make would likely be negligible.
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
So if it's a placebo then it has a real beneficial effect because they would play better believing to play better at 144hz than at 60hz?jesse1412 wrote:
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
We can get into a debate about what the eye can see (l0l 30fps is all you n33d h4h4 stupid pc gamer wasting money on 144hz when their 3y3s cant s33 it h4h4). Skip the bullshit and tell me the perceived clarity of motion does not make it easier to react to a patterns at higher ar's? Perfect example, I was shit at reading triples at anything higher than ar9 pre144hz monitor. Post144hz monitor, I can magically react to it? If you were able to read higher ar's without 144hz than good for you, you were either genetically hardwired for osu or worked harder than most to learn higher ar's at 60hz.jesse1412 wrote:
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
Now lets throw some hypotheticals, it is damn-near impossible for you to lose a skill like this (osu!) without severe brain trauma. But, if you did succumb to such trauma (god forbid) would you take the trip to mastering osu again with 60hz or 144hz? They exist for a reason, it is not just some big ass marketing scheme.
Companies like ASUS, BenQ, AOC, and Phillips are cashing in big time on placebo? Or (more likely) the perceived clarity of motion that higher refresh rates have to offer.
I would play osu again at 60hz because it means I can deal with any hz 60+ but if I started again with 144 it means it would be harder if I ever had to go back down
In spite of any financial hardships you may ever face in your life (once again, god forbid) what situation would cause you to not game at a higher refresh rate? Entertain my mind with a single one.Khelly wrote:
I would play osu again at 60hz because it means I can deal with any hz 60+ but if I started again with 144 it means it would be harder if I ever had to go back down
OK DADchainpullz wrote:
Kids these days just don't understand that struggling is an important part of the learning process
Not having any available 144hz monitor to use.Clappy wrote:
In spite of any financial hardships you may ever face in your life (once again, god forbid) what situation would cause you to not game at a higher refresh rate? Entertain my mind with a single one.Khelly wrote:
I would play osu again at 60hz because it means I can deal with any hz 60+ but if I started again with 144 it means it would be harder if I ever had to go back down
Not wanting to spend the money to acquire said 144hz because 60hz doesn't hinder my performance in the relevant AR's I play and I can spend the leftover money on onaholes and dakimakuras.
That's like saying, if I got use to playing with that ice cream cone, it could hinder my performance if I ever played without it. **Few moments later** Ice cream cone? Man I could spend my money to jack off with plastic, I dont need that shit.Khelly wrote:
Not having any available 144hz monitor to use.
Not wanting to spend the money to acquire said 144hz because 60hz doesn't hinder my performance in the relevant AR's I play and I can spend the leftover money on onaholes and dakimakuras.
Which means you will never have the ice cream (144hz) to get use to and hinder your performance if you develop a necessity for it in the first place. Want to throw another situation?
What are you trying to say when you use ice cream cone as an analogy? It doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz doesn't matter in which case might as well go for 60hz because it doesn't matter.
So I can have either minimal increase in percieved smoothness from switching to 144hz or the same thing I use now at 60hz which is perfectly acceptable for what I do. The opportunity cost of not being able to go back to 60hz from 144hz is too high for such little benefit. I can also spend the money on something else.
So I can have either minimal increase in percieved smoothness from switching to 144hz or the same thing I use now at 60hz which is perfectly acceptable for what I do. The opportunity cost of not being able to go back to 60hz from 144hz is too high for such little benefit. I can also spend the money on something else.
If it doesn't matter, then how do you foresee yourself developing a necessity for it? Man I really can't live without my appendix...Khelly wrote:
What are you trying to say when you use ice cream cone as an analogy? It doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz doesn't matter in which case might as well go for 60hz because it doesn't matter.
So I can have either minimal increase in percieved smoothness from switching to 144hz or the same thing I use now at 60hz which is perfectly acceptable for what I do. The opportunity cost of not being able to go back to 60hz from 144hz is too high. I can also spend the money on something else.
SPOILER
you can
And to comment on your "minimal" increase in perceived smoothness, take a look at this. http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Elec ... 1292115011
The 11th most sold monitor on amazon is the ASUS 144hz one, and thats out of the ENTIRE sample size of people that purchase monitors on Amazon.com, it's definitely a minimal increase if it can top charts out of the ENTIRE Amazon customer base.
The same way some people can only play ar10 and not lower ar's. Except in this case if I want to use a 144hz monitor I don't change down to lower hz's randomly as I play.Clappy wrote:
If it doesn't matter, then how do you foresee yourself developing a necessity for it? Man I really can't live without my appendix...SPOILERyou can
I'm not sure if this can be considered relevant, but I play by tracking my cursor visually, which worked fine on my old CRT (which I pushed to 150Hz for most of its osu! life). And I couldn't even dream of playing like this on a 60Hz (although that's because my muscle memory is complete shit). It's almost to the point where I feel as if I'm playing blind.
I made my 75Hz LCD my primary monitor for almost a week when my old CRT bit the dust, and that was enough for me to completely give up on playing until finding a new monitor to play on. At least I was lucky enough to quickly find a 144Hz-capable CRT that some guy was giving away for free.
I made my 75Hz LCD my primary monitor for almost a week when my old CRT bit the dust, and that was enough for me to completely give up on playing until finding a new monitor to play on. At least I was lucky enough to quickly find a 144Hz-capable CRT that some guy was giving away for free.
That's comparing apples to oranges. A high AR dependence stems from only playing higher ar's and for the most part you're right, they can't play maps because they lack the reading ability and the connotation with it is generally negative. A higher refresh rate dependence stems from your eye being trained to see increased motion clarity (connotation: positive). Which would suggest it would matter and until you've actually experienced it first hand, you really can't say it doesn't matter or not.Khelly wrote:
The same way some people can only play ar10 and not lower ar's. Except in this case if I want to use a 144hz monitor I don't change down to lower hz's randomly as I play.Clappy wrote:
If it doesn't matter, then how do you foresee yourself developing a necessity for it? Man I really can't live without my appendix...SPOILERyou can
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
I finished that example with a nice summary to show your flawed logic. You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have. A crackhead doesn't become a crackhead until they've tapped into those white rocks. If you know a way to become a crackhead without crack (which is what your situation implied) please tell me.Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have - that's the exact reason why I wouldn't want to play 144hz until that becomes some kind of standard for most monitors.Clappy wrote:
I finished that example with a nice summary to show your flawed logic. You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have. A crackhead doesn't become a crackhead until they've tapped into those white rocks. If you know a way to become a crackhead without crack (which is what your situation implied) please tell me.Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
The way you're saying it is to imply that you should try something that will obviously lead to a dependency because they won't have that dependency unless they try.
Ok perfect, I'll take that. I'm leading you to the crack. But, you're afraid to try something that doesn't matter? Or does it matter. But, there are first hand, second hand, and third hand examples (forums, reviews, friends, people that actually have the product) that the disparity in motion clarity is not minimal. It is actually night and day, ergo it matters? Can you give me that? I do not lead people to crack that does not matter.Khelly wrote:
You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have - that's the exact reason why I wouldn't want to play 144hz until that becomes some kind of standard for most monitors.
The way you're saying it is to imply that you should try something that will obviously lead to a dependency because they won't have that dependency unless they try.
Can you re-read this for me when you try to argue against "my" statement of "it doesn't matter"Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
The underlying theme here, it does not matter. Closer to the beginning of our arguement.Khelly wrote:
Not wanting to spend the money to acquire said 144hz because 60hz doesn't hinder my performance in the relevant AR's I play and I can spend the leftover money on onaholes and dakimakuras.
The underlying theme here, it does not matter. Yet, saying that you will develop a need for 144hz because the motion clarity is too great to ever look back. Ergo it matters.Khelly wrote:
The same way some people can only play ar10 and not lower ar's. Except in this case if I want to use a 144hz monitor I don't change down to lower hz's randomly as I play.
Here is where you abandoned your original argument and began stating that I implied it doesn't matter because I used an "ice cream cone" analogy to a highly illogical statement you provided.Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
I'd rather start at 60hz than 144hz because 60hz is more readily available, playing 144hz will necessarily make playing 60hz a worse experience for me once I get used to it, I can already play what I need at 60hz making 144hz not a necessity, and the cost of 144hz monitor over 60hz outweighs the benefits.
Then you come up with some ice cream cone example that doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz and 60hz doesn't matter so just play 144hz. Then you're trying to pressure me or some shit like I said it doesn't matter when that's simply the way I interpreted your analogy.
Then you come up with some ice cream cone example that doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz and 60hz doesn't matter so just play 144hz. Then you're trying to pressure me or some shit like I said it doesn't matter when that's simply the way I interpreted your analogy.
stop rage
plz enjoy game
plz enjoy game
Here we go with the illogical statements againKhelly wrote:
I can already play what I need at 60hz making 144hz not a necessity
1) If you've never experienced your osu! performance without crack how can you say it's not a necessity.
2) There are cases (several, infact) against your statement that 144hz is not a necessity. Asus's VG248QE is the 11th most sold monitor out of ALL computer monitors. It is safe to assume only serious gamers are purchasing 144hz monitors right now, and we've pushed a 144hz monitor almost into the top 10 of computer monitor sales on Amazon, once again not a necessity, but you saying it does not matter and it will not help your performance is not a relevant statement and is highly illogical.
3) 60hz is more readily-available? 11th most sold monitor on amazon, a single 144hz monitor, not to mention there are many, many more? Highly illogical.
4) A standard 1080p monitor is approx $100 usd with respectable specs - 5ms response time or under. $150 dollars isn't worth for a glaring increase in motion clarity?
Not blowing smoke out my ass: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Elec ... 1292115011
The Asus monitor is 11th on the rankings, how are you saying this?
It's not a necessity if it's not necessary to use to play the game. I and many others are playing the game without it. It's not a necessity.
Even in the case of ar 10 and 10.3, it's NOT a necessity by any means.
It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one.
So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is.
That $50 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. (Actually $150 can get me an autoblow2 since my current monitor isn't broken)
Even in the case of ar 10 and 10.3, it's NOT a necessity by any means.
It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one.
So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is.
That $50 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. (Actually $150 can get me an autoblow2 since my current monitor isn't broken)
it does not
having those helps, how much it depends on how you play the game
biggest difference is cursor being less delayed and drawn more often for me, helps a ton
having those helps, how much it depends on how you play the game
biggest difference is cursor being less delayed and drawn more often for me, helps a ton
1) A Necessity it may not but it's certainly highly-recommended? Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet?Khelly wrote:
It's not a necessity if it's not necessary to use to play the game. I and many others are playing the game without it. It's not a necessity.
Even in the case of ar 10 and 10.3, it's NOT a necessity by any means.
It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one.
So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is.
That $50 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. (Actually $150 can get me an autoblow2 since my current monitor isn't broken)
2) It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one. Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet? Speaking from what you think again
3) So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is. I can't think of a single instance where 60hz is readily available to a point where it mattered. Most computer retailers sell 144hz monitors as well as 60hz: Walmart, Best Buy, even Gamestop.
4) That $150 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. Marginal? You're speaking from what you think and not what you know.
2) It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one. Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet?Comparing 144hz monitor to tablet+keyboard ----> looking at HDHR (player) or Wilchq or any other top20 who play on 60hz ----> facepalming
144hz monitor isn't such a big difference for playability until you play high complex ar10.3/ar11. You can normaly get into pro skill level top10 with 60hz without even spending a single cent on upgrading your monitor.
Also CRT > LED all the way.
Clappy wrote:
But, if you did succumb to such trauma (god forbid) would you take the trip to mastering osu again with 60hz or 144hz? They exist for a reason, it is not just some big ass marketing scheme.
Now here's the original question I was answering as an aside to jesus and thus any reasons other than what I think are irrelevant. If you gave me a choice, I would choose 60hz unless you could give me a lifetime supply of 144.
Take a sample of the top 100 player base on 60hz and compare to 144hz. If it does not matter ask your top players to play without 144hz. You're just blowing smoke. A 144hz monitor provides a much different visual signature than its 60hz counterpart and it is superhelpful. You're all saying its not necessity, by that same logic a tablet and keyboard isn't a necessity. Let's see a 60hz, walmart mouse-only player top 1000. There might be one, hell MAYBE two.[Taiga] wrote:
2) It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one. Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet?Comparing 144hz monitor to tablet+keyboard ----> looking at HDHR (player) or Wilchq or any other top20 who play on 60hz ----> facepalming