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P*Light - Deadliner

posted
Total Posts
132
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FCL
1,497 posts
Joined July 2014
FCL
I fully agree with Okoratu, I myself am a player who plays a maps with 4.4-4.7 star rating and 1/2 pretty fine and intrested in my diff. What about transition, it is generally a strange lol, at minimum for different mappers who mapped these diffs.
If i should follow to your mod i should remap my diff, what i really not want. I like this style, seriously :(
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,061 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
The spread is fine from my point of view, and so are E and N difficulties. Harder diffs issues were addressed by Okoratu, so I won't focus on them.

Easy has rather weird HP Drain choice, indeed. But I don't think that it is wrong, as the nature of the song is sorta asking for a bit of challenge. The spacing change you are trying to mention is a minor x0.05 difference, which is nearly unnoticeable to an eye of the target player. Also, beginners are unaware of flow, you begin to introduce this kind of things later, so the patterns should work just as they are intended to.

As for the Normal, I would not call 1/2 bursts intense. Yes, they are rather agressive, but so is the song. So, this is fine from my perspective. And the 3/2 things seem to be working quite well here and even in the Easy, as they are mostly sliders which require little accuracy.

Overall, nothing I would personally disqualify for. Yes, some things could be fixed, but they are very minor and don't lower overall quality.
Last edited by riffy , edited 1 time in total.
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
I don't expect to you guys to agree with me about the spread issue because it's my concern is still debatable. Despite they're compressed, doesn't mean the mapper can over use it as he wants in the kiai when the drain of the jumps is rather high in this difficulty. What's the point of following such as close streams and then passing into spaced 1/2 objects?

FCL wrote:

If i should follow to your mod i should remap my diff, what i really not want. I like this style, seriously :(
Nobody says nothing about remap. And I'm sorry but saying: "It's my style" doesn't imply the difficulty itself is right/correct. There are even more issues about the streams and jumps on your difficulty I posted in my mod which, indeed, doesn't force you to remap.

Natsu wrote:

checked again, normal and easy gap is totally fine, hard and insane also fine, I really don't get what are you talking about,
normal is almost 1/1 with a few 1/2s, Easy is 1/1 gaps, totally fine.


Oh really? This is what I'm talking about, which is as I said, on my mod that I probably guess you didn't read after all.

Normal 00:27:929 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -


Easy 00:23:861 (2,1,2,1) -


If this is fine for you... I don't know what's fine/correct about gaps between Easy and Normal difficulties anymore.
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,061 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
Why don't you try to look at overall diffiuculty level of each individual map, instead of posting screenshots of 1/2 bursts in Normal? This will give you abetter idea of what the mapset actually is.
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
Bakari is right, check all the diff and don't take screenshoot of only certain parts for your convenience
those transitions are really common in easy to normal diff, always always, i did check 600+ maps and its always similar there is nothing wrong with the spread and those compressed streams + spaced 1/2s are fine, hard diff already use 1/2s circle patterns such as 00:42:166 (3,4,5,6,1) - 01:24:878 (1,2,3,4) - that introduce u to jumps in insane easily, also hard use alot of repeats 00:43:522 (1,2,3) - which make the player notice what kind of rhythm insane diff will have, srsly spread is really fine.
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
If difficulties were supposed to be mapped individually without caring how it transits to another diffs, we would see easy with 3/1 objects and 60 notes, and normal with an overuse of 1/2 objects with 180 objects just because it makes sense with the rhythm.

It's my opinion, I know. I am just a modder who disagreed with the mapset structure and spread which would like to have a response of time I took to look at the map from the mappers. I guess it was my bad to post it here t/398892 when nobody agreed with me before.
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
Read again, we said you need to look at the whole set and at the whole diff not just a certain places of it, right now you look a bit stubborn mostly trying to dq the map yes or yes, despite alot of people already disagree with you, forcing the mapper after he and multiple people already explain to you isn't nice. Posting its totally fine, but what you want get a DQ now so the mapper and people explained the same once again? I think that will be only a totally lose of time, since discussion was already done and is basically only you the one who keep with it. FLC already explained to you too.

Anyways nice map :D and GL it ~
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen
Thank you guys, I'm glad we have finally come to a conclusion.
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
Being that said, the amount of objects and the Star Rating don't even matter nowadays. It's time to nominate maps. \:D/

@xDarxen, I still would like to see a reply of my mod. ;w;
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,061 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
They never did matter, HR88. The only thing that actually matters is playability and the real difficulty level of things. Please, avoid judging sets on Star Rating as well as using AiMod to measure spacing mistakes.
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen

Bakari wrote:

The spread is fine from my point of view, and so are E and N difficulties. Harder diffs issues were addressed by Okoratu, so I won't focus on them.

Easy has rather weird HP Drain choice, indeed. But I don't think that it is wrong, as the nature of the song is sorta asking for a bit of challenge. The spacing change you are trying to mention is a minor x0.05 difference, which is nearly unnoticeable to an eye of the target player. Also, beginners are unaware of flow, you begin to introduce this kind of things later, so the patterns should work just as they are intended to.

As for the Normal, I would not call 1/2 bursts intense. Yes, they are rather agressive, but so is the song. So, this is fine from my perspective. And the 3/2 things seem to be working quite well here and even in the Easy, as they are mostly sliders which require little accuracy.

Overall, nothing I would personally disqualify for. Yes, some things could be fixed, but they are very minor and don't lower overall quality.

Bakari has fully covered me. I agree with some things in the mod, such as some NC inconsistencies, but are they really worthy of a DQ? If yes, I will apply them with an answer to the mod.
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88

Bakari wrote:

They never did matter, HR88. The only thing that actually matters is playability and the real difficulty level of things. Please, avoid judging sets on Star Rating as well as using AiMod to measure spacing mistakes.
Now I'm confused because what Easy/Normal should strictly have consistent DS among the notes, just as it's stated here. Now you're telling me to don't judge the spacing of a map with Aimod.

I know in this case the spacing wasn't really noticeable, but I'm just following the rules. Not really sure what other things aren't aimed for you to use while modding.

Also, it's somehow weird how my issues were denied when the qualify system was "disqualify first, then discuss". That doesn't apply when QATs decide to disagree with the issue?
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Often spacing inconsistencies as 1.04 as opposed to 1.00 are already notified, while they don't matter at all. I personally never use AiMod to judge maps, and I don't recommend anyone to do it either
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,061 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
We disqualify and discuss things when the reasons are valid or questionable, in this case pretty much everyone here agrees that it's good to go.

We can have a nice and detailed conversation about it later, when I'll be online.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
it's been a long time without playing devil's advocate

Bakari wrote:

We disqualify and discuss things when the reasons are valid or questionable, in this case pretty much everyone here agrees that it's good to go.

We can have a nice and detailed conversation about it later, when I'll be online.
i don't remember it being like this, if the concern was somewhat valid at first sight it would be DQ'd without any warning to avoid "time issues"

there's also the fact that you haven't even let the mapper speak for him/herself, you all jumped on HappyRocket's throat really quickly

and no, you cannot speak objectively from mapper's perspective because you are not the mapper, so yeah just let the mapper speak and stop trying to make HappyRocket feel bad for trying to improve the mapset's quality.

on-topic: grats for your first qualified map!
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
[Extremity]

  1. 00:40:980 (2) - Having a 1/4 repeat here instead of a triplet/something more rhythmically dense dampens the build up effect you want here going into those 1/2 jumps.
  2. 01:22:166 - 01:26:065 - This whole section should use a louder hit sound volume than 20%. Compare the loudness of the section here with the section at 01:05:895 - . You'll find they are very similar. I would even argue the presence of all those kicks from 01:22:166 (1,2,3,4) - would even demand a higher volume control.
  3. 01:40:302 (7,1) - NC pattern here is rather questionable. I would swap them because 01:40:302 - just sounds like a much better place to begin a second combo, considering the electronic vocal is basically repeating itself twice. You can also see that the stream spacing changes on 01:40:302 (7) - not on 01:40:387 (1) -.
[FCL's Insane]

  1. 00:35:725 (1) - This slider is technically unsnapped, the repeats are off by 2ms because the head is 1ms unsnapped haha. You don't have to fix I guess, but this is mainly for whoever plans on DQ'ing this: Times surely have changed since: p/4016272 lol. I guess we don't dq for 2ms unsnapped repeats anymore huh. A response here would be nice for future DQ reference though. because it's objectively unsnapped, even if by a very negligible amount.
  2. 00:46:573 (3,1) - This pause can easily be fixed if you made a symmetrical slider pattern with (2). It would get rid of the 1/1 break that looks identical to your 1/2 spacing pattern.
    Something like this
  3. 01:03:014 (1,2) - I really feel you should distinguish between these two sounds, because theres a really distinctive rhythm found between 01:03:183 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - however 01:03:014 (1) - doesn't really fit this rhythm pattern. You want that rhythm to begin on the downbeat, not the red tick before it. Easy solution is just to make 01:02:674 (5) - a repeat slider instead.
  4. 01:22:166 - Similarly with Extremity (I guess you copied hitsound) this part could definitely use a volume increase. It's more noticeable here because you mapped the section between 01:16:743 - 01:22:166 - so there's an even more noticeable lack of a volume change. (Extremity used breaks, so the shift won't be as noticeable to players, but that still shouldn't excuse it).
  5. 01:46:572 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Now this is what I wanted to see! :D
[Lumael's Hard]

  • My main concern with this diff is just the inconsistent use of emphasis, but that's not too uncommon nowadays. I would still be a bit more consistent about it.
  1. 00:50:472 (4,5) - versus 00:51:658 (3,4) - . versus 01:01:149 (3,4) -
  2. 01:43:183 (6,1) - This spacing is just going to throw people off. You can argue there's an NC there, but this is also a Hard and players aren't as aware of these spacing changes. NC'ing removes the follow point which makes people more aware of rhythm in Insane/Extra diff's but the technique isn't found a lot in Hard's since players are dealing with spacing increases and "jumps" at this stage, not anti-jumps :P. Simple solution is stacking this slider underneath 01:43:183 (6) - 's tail. Refer to 00:59:794 (5,1) - for how Lumael executes this if you're going to make the change for him.
This "discussion" was handled quite poorly. I think we should let the mapper have a say first. Also, it's not necessary to call HR88's mod and reasoning "laughable". He's just trying to help, and trying to maintain a level of quality in today's maps. This kind of a reaction really discourages people from looking at maps in the future, and suggesting things that can potentially make their map even better.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
Oh, seems like you didn't read my statement how i intended it to be: The statement that the Hard -> Insane gap is too wide is laughable, I didn't talk about the mod itself, just that I disagree that spread is any issue here. In fact most of the discussion was about spread from Hard to Insane, idk the rest of the mod was kinda ignored or something?
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

Bakari wrote:

We disqualify and discuss things when the reasons are valid or questionable
Wahahahahaha

also i like how this turned into a BN fight rather than discussing anything with the actual mapper

I'm going to mod purely Extremity for brevity, but I think I can say a thing or two about D'n'B genre mapping.

Extremity
Copypasting
  1. I can fully understand the prevalent usage of copy+paste to speed things up, but it's horrifically lazy on your top most difficulty.
  2. 00:00:811 (1,2,3,4) - Just this, for example. 3 and 4 being direct copies of 1,2 and shifted over completely disregards any and all pitch or volume changes in the music. It's extremely boring and lazy. Even just swapping them around can imply to the player that something else is going on other than just mashing your 1/2 sliders and circles. This is repeated throughout the map and is more of a DQ reason than anything else imo.
  4. You're not just copy+pasting one or two notes, you're literally fractally copy+pasting! You take a single straight slider, flip it, copy those two, copy them, move them a bit, and copy those 4 and use them everywhere else. This is literally the laziest thing I've seen in months.
on second thought seeing as literally this entire diff is like 70% copy pasted im only going to mod 30% of it
  1. 01:40:810 (6,1) - this is better off as a 1/2 slider with a new combo on the start
  2. 01:39:793 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this new comboing is horrible. If you want a new combo in this section, it should be one of the following: 1->12, 1234,1234,1234,1. No other possibility arise for the new comboing here.
  3. 01:40:979 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1,2,3,4,5,6) - what the hell. did nobody look at the new combos before qualifying this? New combo should be on 01:41:149 - and 01:42:166 - and 01:43:183 -
  4. ^apply that new comboing there for 01:14:030 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1,2,3) - this mess too
  5. 01:14:030 (1,2,3) - also what the heck is the consistency here. You've always had 2 stacks -> jumps for this noise but this is like the only exception (except for when you copy+paste this)
  6. 01:57:421 (1,2) - the complete lack of movement here makes no sense from a gameplay perspective
  7. 02:05:556 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - did someone drop me into Smoothie's Racemization when I wasn't looking?
  8. 02:10:641 (1) - this is literally mapped to noghting
okay 30% effort for a 30% effort map
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88

Shiirn wrote:

also i like how this turned into a BN fight rather than discussing anything with the actual mapper
xDarxen said something he wanted to give a look of the mod, but as long as Bakari didn't want to disqualify it because my suggestions wouldn't be enough to DQ, so he won't change anything.

It's quite sad the mod was aimed to discuss with the mapper and end with an agreement, but then the modders appeared and denied most of my issues because they were fine to their eyes, not letting the mapper to say or discuss with the mod itself... This game is motivating me less and less. XD
Last edited by HappyRocket88 , edited 1 time in total.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
Besides the spread, we probably have some more than worthwhile to be discussed and replied by the mapper based on these post-qualification mods. No doubt, anything constructive other than things mentioned above is welcome.

Last but not least, please be courteous. Really sad to see patronizing attitude of some veterans in the mapping community.
eeezzzeee
979 posts
Joined August 2013
eeezzzeee
ok welp nothing was mentioned about my diff but since its dq'ed now here's a small polishing update c:

yay 600th post
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: PLight- Deadliner.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 2000
PreviewTime: 42844
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 811,11658,21149,22505,33353,42844,44200,86234,87590,109285,129624,130980
DistanceSpacing: 1.5
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 1.3

[Metadata]
Title:Deadliner
TitleUnicode:Deadliner
Artist:P*Light
ArtistUnicode:P*Light
Creator:xDarxen
Version:eze's Extra
Source:
Tags:Dnb Drum and Bass Dubstep cubegrams NOT 4 on the FLOOR FCL Lumael eeezzzeee
BeatmapID:822643
BeatmapSetID:350290

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:6
CircleSize:4
OverallDifficulty:8
ApproachRate:9.2
SliderMultiplier:1.6
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"Moon.jpg",0,0
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

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[Colours]
Combo1 : 128,128,128
Combo2 : 0,255,255
Combo3 : 74,74,255

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FCL
1,497 posts
Joined July 2014
FCL

Monstrata wrote:

[FCL's Insane]

00:35:725 (1) - This slider is technically unsnapped, the repeats are off by 2ms because the head is 1ms unsnapped haha. You don't have to fix I guess, but this is mainly for whoever plans on DQ'ing this: Times surely have changed since: p/4016272 lol. I guess we don't dq for 2ms unsnapped repeats anymore huh. A response here would be nice for future DQ reference though. because it's objectively unsnapped, even if by a very negligible amount. 2ms, wow
00:46:573 (3,1) - This pause can easily be fixed if you made a symmetrical slider pattern with (2). It would get rid of the 1/1 break that looks identical to your 1/2 spacing pattern. yea, it's nice idea
Something like this
01:03:014 (1,2) - I really feel you should distinguish between these two sounds, because theres a really distinctive rhythm found between 01:03:183 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - however 01:03:014 (1) - doesn't really fit this rhythm pattern. You want that rhythm to begin on the downbeat, not the red tick before it. Easy solution is just to make 01:02:674 (5) - a repeat slider instead. u right, fixed too
01:22:166 - Similarly with Extremity (I guess you copied hitsound) this part could definitely use a volume increase. It's more noticeable here because you mapped the section between 01:16:743 - 01:22:166 - so there's an even more noticeable lack of a volume change. (Extremity used breaks, so the shift won't be as noticeable to players, but that still shouldn't excuse it). oups
01:46:572 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Now this is what I wanted to see!
@HappyRocket I fixed all except 01:14:031 (1) since it's not greatly will interfere
I think DQ really was need, because as we can make mapset better, and it's great.
Just i was against the option about 1/2 spams, just i think it's fun to play.
SPOILER
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: PLight- Deadliner.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 2000
PreviewTime: 42844
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1.2
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 1.3

[Metadata]
Title:Deadliner
TitleUnicode:Deadliner
Artist:P*Light
ArtistUnicode:P*Light
Creator:xDarxen
Version:FCL's Insane
Source:
Tags:Dnb Drum and Bass Dubstep cubegrams NOT 4 on the FLOOR FCL Lumael eeezzzeee
BeatmapID:774786
BeatmapSetID:350290

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472,352,115726,1,8,0:0:0:0:
472,352,115896,1,0,0:0:0:0:
408,256,116065,6,0,L|368:152,1,97.50000371933,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
264,112,116404,1,8,0:0:0:0:
441,214,116574,2,0,L|375:123,1,97.50000371933,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
264,112,116913,1,0,0:0:0:0:
440,165,117082,2,0,L|353:95,1,97.50000371933,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
264,112,117421,5,4,0:0:0:0:
168,176,117591,1,0,0:0:0:0:
128,284,117760,1,10,0:0:0:0:
56,192,117930,1,0,0:0:0:0:
72,64,118099,2,0,P|128:40|208:48,1,97.50000371933,0|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
264,112,118437,2,0,P|312:72|336:16,1,97.50000371933,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
448,40,118777,6,0,L|472:152,2,97.50000371933,2|0|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
384,136,119285,2,0,L|360:248,2,97.50000371933,0|2|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
408,24,119793,5,8,3:3:0:0:
408,24,119878,1,0,3:3:0:0:
408,24,119963,1,0,3:3:0:0:
408,24,120048,1,0,3:3:0:0:
408,24,120132,5,4,0:1:0:0:
328,80,120302,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,144,120471,2,0,L|248:256,1,97.50000371933,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
168,324,120810,1,0,0:0:0:0:
76,252,120980,1,2,0:0:0:0:
160,152,121149,2,0,P|213:155|272:136,1,97.50000371933,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
388,120,121488,6,0,B|435:195|435:195|443:301|443:301|510:393,2,292.50001115799,2|0|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
276,56,122675,1,0,0:0:0:0:
160,88,122844,6,0,P|96:120|80:160,1,97.50000371933,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
48,224,123183,1,2,0:0:0:0:
48,224,123353,1,0,0:0:0:0:
80,304,123522,2,0,L|176:320,1,97.50000371933,0|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
288,364,123861,2,0,L|385:357,1,97.50000371933,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
490,286,124200,6,0,B|465:200|465:200|487:96|487:96|447:-10,2,292.50001115799,2|0|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
357,326,125387,1,0,0:0:0:0:
240,232,125556,5,0,1:1:0:0:
232,72,125895,1,8,0:0:0:0:
396,160,126234,1,0,1:0:0:0:
224,296,126573,1,8,0:0:0:0:
224,296,126658,1,0,0:0:0:0:
224,296,126742,1,0,0:0:0:0:
160,232,126912,5,0,1:0:0:0:
104,64,127251,1,8,0:0:0:0:
248,168,127590,1,0,1:0:0:0:
416,120,127929,1,8,0:0:0:0:
416,120,128014,1,0,0:0:0:0:
416,120,128098,1,0,0:0:0:0:
360,56,128268,5,0,1:0:0:0:
248,72,128437,1,2,0:0:0:0:
140,28,128607,1,0,1:0:0:0:
148,144,128776,1,2,0:0:0:0:
248,72,128946,1,8,0:0:0:0:
324,160,129115,1,8,0:0:0:0:
436,124,129285,1,8,0:0:0:0:
348,48,129454,1,8,0:0:0:0:
324,160,129624,5,0,1:0:0:0:
256,192,130980,5,4,0:1:0:0:
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen

HappyRocket88 wrote:

HR88
[Easy]
  1. Don't you think the HP is a bit high for this Easy? I know this go over the way you see how the HP fits in the map but take in mind this is the lowest diff and new players tend to fail very often at these easier difficulties because of the patterning you managed. Having it over 2 would be more suitable and would have fitted more according to the usage of long sliders here. But, by far, it's just an opinion. Yea, after thinking again, I decreased it
  2. 00:19:794 (1,2) - It's not really noticeable but there's a DS problem here that was showed with the Aimod. Fixed
  3. 00:14:370 (1) - This slider isn't emphasizing properly the rhythm here. While it keeps consistency with the 2/1 sliders you used over the whole section, it doesn't follow intuitively the main rhythm of the music over this segment. There's a clearly strong pitch on the instruments which suggest the reverse should go here 00:14:878 - just as well as you did over some similar 3/2 sliders over the upcoming patterns or as well as you emphasized 00:15:387 - in the Normal difficulty. In this way, you can add a circle to give more emphasis in the downbeat and make a more perceptive patterning for this part. I've added a 1/1 slider instead
  4. 00:41:488 (3) - Not sure if the non-NC here is intentional, because it looks a bit awkward to have a long combo like (5) on this pattern where you already used two measures with the two 3/1 you used before. Fixed
  5. 00:48:946 (3,1) - This flow is particularly hard for an Easy difficulty. I know this reside of your mapping style of blankets for Beginner diffs, but you should take account the movement newbies will do to follow those two sliders where, probably, it wouldn't be really intuitive if you do this: Did something
  6. 01:06:573 (2) This slider is probably the main issue over this difficulty. Could you tell me what was exactly this slider following in the song? Having a 7/3 slider here doesn't play well because it, indeed, creates an awkward rhythm over this segment. It would make more sense if you highlighted this beat 01:07:251 - since there's sound which should be emphasized. Fixed
  7. 01:22:166 (1,1) - what was the purpose of breaking the DS you managed in the whole map? Having these two slider with NC could be way misleading to players because they're used to see 1 - 4 as you built up the NC. Removing the NC here would be the best 01:23:522 (1) - and in this way you might keep consistency with the same pattern which have this charge, like 00:38:777 (1,2,3,4,5) - My bad, fixed
  8. 01:41:150 (1,2,3) - Variation is important but using the same patterning over and over end being awkward to play because in this section it would have flowed better if you had used the same 3/2 sliders as you did in this part 00:57:760 (1,2,3) - were honestly will improve the rhythm over this segment. Done
[]
For my final thought, it's not a bad Easy, my concerns reside of some rhythms and flows which could've improved though.

[Normal]I'm not going talk about spread again, as it was mentioned in previous posts
  1. 00:23:861 (1) - Shouldn't this don't have NC as well as you followed the previous patterns? I find it quite interesting why you placed NC there when honestly it would make mroe sense without it. Yea fixed
  2. 01:03:183 (1,2) - While these two sliders make sense with the beat of the song, they feel overmapped because using a 1/1 slider would make stuff easier to read from beginner after the spam of 1/2 objects of the overall kiai. Consider applying the same here 01:46:573 (1,2) - Done
[]
My only complain reside about the overuse of 1/2 sliders and circles snapped to 1/2 tick. Take account this is a normal diff so using 1/1 and occasionally 1/2 would be better for players, starting from this high based BPM.

[Lumael's Hard] This diffs is really well made and flows particularly fine, despite Lumael is now afk, I have some few suggestions that could improve the difficulty itself:
  1. 00:09:624 (3,4,1) - I know this goes for the style of the mapper but honestly this would lok better if you give it a look because the flow ins't really intuitive because (4) is almost hidden for the (3) slider's body. It would make more sense if you did Ctrl + J over the (3) to, in this case, develop a neater zig zag flow since it was firstly the issue of this suggestion. I think an other modder had also suggested this and Lumael didn't change it, so I guess he doesn't want to
  2. 00:12:336 (3) - 02:00:810 (3) - By far those are the only one 1/2 slider with two repeats in this difficulty. They don't flow bad and all, however, the song doesn't claim for a two reverses here. It would make a neater rhythm if you removed a reverse and added a circle to fix this. Done
  3. 00:50:472 (4,5) - Why the random increasing of the DS here? It would play better if you short the distance between these notes and let the strong beat has the jump as well as you did in the upcoming patterns. Fixed
  4. 01:04:200 (3,4) - Not really sure what you were intending here but you could rotate them by 25° to develop a neater flow and keep consistent the DS. I've seen this more times in the diff so I think it's intentional
  5. 01:39:794 (1) - This NC really goes here? I do believe removing it will make more sense here according to the way you built up the NC here.Same as above, I found this pattern before and it has the same NC, so no change
[] Overall a really nice difficulty. Just some patterning and flows that can be easily fixed and this diff would be more than ready.
Thanks you Rocket! I can't give Kudosu WTF


Monstrata wrote:

Monstrata
[Extremity]

  1. 00:40:980 (2) - Having a 1/4 repeat here instead of a triplet/something more rhythmically dense dampens the build up effect you want here going into those 1/2 jumps. Replaced with triple
  2. 01:22:166 - 01:26:065 - This whole section should use a louder hit sound volume than 20%. Compare the loudness of the section here with the section at 01:05:895 - . You'll find they are very similar. I would even argue the presence of all those kicks from 01:22:166 (1,2,3,4) - would even demand a higher volume control. Agree, increased it
  3. 01:40:302 (7,1) - NC pattern here is rather questionable. I would swap them because 01:40:302 - just sounds like a much better place to begin a second combo, considering the electronic vocal is basically repeating itself twice. You can also see that the stream spacing changes on 01:40:302 (7) - not on 01:40:387 (1) -. Yea, done
[Lumael's Hard]

  • My main concern with this diff is just the inconsistent use of emphasis, but that's not too uncommon nowadays. I would still be a bit more consistent about it.
  1. 00:50:472 (4,5) - versus 00:51:658 (3,4) - . versus 01:01:149 (3,4) - I'm afraid I can't do anything about this. I will ruin the diff and I don't want this to happen :(
  2. 01:43:183 (6,1) - This spacing is just going to throw people off. You can argue there's an NC there, but this is also a Hard and players aren't as aware of these spacing changes. NC'ing removes the follow point which makes people more aware of rhythm in Insane/Extra diff's but the technique isn't found a lot in Hard's since players are dealing with spacing increases and "jumps" at this stage, not anti-jumps :P. Simple solution is stacking this slider underneath 01:43:183 (6) - 's tail. Refer to 00:59:794 (5,1) - for how Lumael executes this if you're going to make the change for him. Done
Thanks Monstrata!


Shiirn wrote:

Shiirn
[Copypasting]
  1. I can fully understand the prevalent usage of copy+paste to speed things up, but it's horrifically lazy on your top most difficulty.
  2. 00:00:811 (1,2,3,4) - Just this, for example. 3 and 4 being direct copies of 1,2 and shifted over completely disregards any and all pitch or volume changes in the music. It's extremely boring and lazy. Even just swapping them around can imply to the player that something else is going on other than just mashing your 1/2 sliders and circles. This is repeated throughout the map and is more of a DQ reason than anything else imo.
  4. You're not just copy+pasting one or two notes, you're literally fractally copy+pasting! You take a single straight slider, flip it, copy those two, copy them, move them a bit, and copy those 4 and use them everywhere else. This is literally the laziest thing I've seen in months.
on second thought seeing as literally this entire diff is like 70% copy pasted im only going to mod 30% of it. I remmaped the intro. Now it is only 50% copy pasted
  1. 01:40:810 (6,1) - this is better off as a 1/2 slider with a new combo on the start I don't really agree
  2. 01:39:793 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this new comboing is horrible. If you want a new combo in this section, it should be one of the following: 1->12, 1234,1234,1234,1. No other possibility arise for the new comboing here. Changed as Monstrata said
  3. 01:40:979 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1,2,3,4,5,6) - what the hell. did nobody look at the new combos before qualifying this? New combo should be on 01:41:149 - and 01:42:166 - and 01:43:183 - Fixed
  4. ^apply that new comboing there for 01:14:030 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1,2,3) - this mess too Fixed
  5. 01:14:030 (1,2,3) - also what the heck is the consistency here. You've always had 2 stacks -> jumps for this noise but this is like the only exception (except for when you copy+paste this)
  6. 01:57:421 (1,2) - the complete lack of movement here makes no sense from a gameplay perspective Did something
  7. 02:05:556 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - did someone drop me into Smoothie's Racemization when I wasn't looking? Yea, the Santa Claus in the BG dropped you into it
  8. 02:10:641 (1) - this is literally mapped to noghting It gives a nice effect before the finishing note, so I'm gonna keep it
okay 30% effort for a 30% effort map Thanks, that's so kind of you
Your mod was kinda rude, but thank you anyway.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
I'm rude because I care.
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
Re-checking


[Normal]
  1. 00:28:607 (3) - 00:31:319 (3) - Would you mind making them 1/1 sliders? While the drums of the background is a sound, it's not really prominet to highlight because you might be skipping them by placing 1/2 sliders. It would be better if you removed these sliders 00:31:658 (4) - 00:28:946 (4) - and made the ones I stated 1/1 sliders to ease significantly this pattern.
[]
That's all from my part. I see the mapset has improved a lot since you apply Monstrata's and Shiirn's suggestions.


You can poke me anytime if you need me to push it again to the ranked page.
Kuki
722 posts
Joined October 2013
Kuki

Shiirn wrote:

I'm rude because I care.
same haha


extremity

00:19:794 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - i really think you could have made a better circle here, or maybe something like this looks cool and plays well with emphasis i think

00:27:929 (1) - i think that this would look better vertically flipped

00:59:963 (7) - ctrl+g on this gets you ready for the jump at 01:00:133 (8) - and i think is also a bit more fun, maybe you should try this on other portions of the map to make it a bit more than two of the same sliders close to eachother? just an idea to spice things up, i'm sure it's been suggested in the past so if it's made it this far by all means ignore this lol

01:22:166 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - u can probably do more here than just copy two sliders to make four then copy those to make eight but i mean whatever i guess, symmetry is ok


ur map's good, as i'm sure you already know by the multiple bubbles. what i think you could work on is making your maps cleaner? i suppose it's not a big deal to most people but i really like having my maps clean. you should toy with the idea of reusing placement a bit more too.

good luck with the re-rank, though i'm sure you won't need it 8-)
Last edited by Kuki , edited 1 time in total.
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen

HappyRocket88 wrote:

Re-checking


[Normal]
  1. 00:28:607 (3) - 00:31:319 (3) - Would you mind making them 1/1 sliders? While the drums of the background is a sound, it's not really prominet to highlight because you might be skipping them by placing 1/2 sliders. It would be better if you removed these sliders 00:31:658 (4) - 00:28:946 (4) - and made the ones I stated 1/1 sliders to ease significantly this pattern.Yea done
Thank you HR, I really think your suggestions improved the lower diffs


Kuki wrote:

00:19:794 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - i really think you could have made a better circle here, or maybe something like this looks cool and plays well with emphasis i think Changed to something similar to what you suggested

00:27:929 (1) - i think that this would look better vertically flipped Yea

00:59:963 (7) - ctrl+g on this gets you ready for the jump at 01:00:133 (8) - and i think is also a bit more fun, maybe you should try this on other portions of the map to make it a bit more than two of the same sliders close to eachother? just an idea to spice things up, i'm sure it's been suggested in the past so if it's made it this far by all means ignore this lol Lol, it was indeed mentioned in some old mods, when the map was still trash (I hope it's not the same now), so I don't feel like changing it right now

01:22:166 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - u can probably do more here than just copy two sliders to make four then copy those to make eight but i mean whatever i guess, symmetry is ok Meh, I thing it looks good


ur map's good, as i'm sure you already know by the multiple bubbles. what i think you could work on is making your maps cleaner? i suppose it's not a big deal to most people but i really like having my maps clean. you should toy with the idea of reusing placement a bit more too. The problem with reusing placement so often is that when you change something, then you have to readjust everything, but yea it's a nice technique every map should have

good luck with the re-rank, though i'm sure you won't need it 8-)
Thank you Kuki! :D
Kuki
722 posts
Joined October 2013
Kuki
sorry dude i forgot to add the diffname

my bad :?
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
FCL: 01:02:158 (3) - isn't snapped
Call me for bubble when it's fixed
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen

Bara- wrote:

FCL: 01:02:158 (3) - isn't snapped
Call me for bubble when it's fixed
Fixed, thanks again :D
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Let's see how it goes this time
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
(ノ･ω･)ノ
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Gratz!
Slayed_old_1
Slayed_old_1
grats!
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen
Here we go again :D Thanks!
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Hi! I'm back. I'm not intending to mod this from a disqualification standpoint, but from a standpoint of giving tips to a new mapper. In my opinion, this map is perfectly rankable provided that it is a new mapper, as this level of inexperience is to be expected from a new mapper. Plenty of leeway can be afford to this map for ranking as it is perfectly functional and is of a genre of music that, even if mapped imperfectly, can still be perfectly fun! (I'd be much more difficult to please if this was a hardcore death metal or wubby camellia map, those are technically much more demanding and as such standards must be set higher).


Again, this is not a mod for disqualification, but trying to impart some knowledge with suggestions towards improvement for any future maps this mapper makes.

Again, I don't intend for this to be a DQ mod. This is a ranty-ish mod that I'm doing simply because I'm bored and want to explain a few things about my perspective for this genre of music.


Extremity
  1. In general, hitsounding is probably the biggest 'issue' here - Nobody has told you how to use hitsounds, so you just add them where they sound neat. That's all well and good, but music like this is very consistent. I'll be mentioning a handful of hitsounding issues as I go along. The most notable examples are during the drummy bits - you tend to use claps on some instruments and whistles on other but they're inconsistent and not always following the actual music. I will point out many of these.
  2. For the intro, 00:00:811 (1) - to 00:20:980 (4) - , you use soft whistles to show emphasis on the synth hihats in the background while continuing to map the flute. The small issue I have with this is that when you decided to "redo some of the intro" to appease me for how much you copypasted, you ended up having identical clicking patterns for the player while having hitsounds imply different emphasis. This is a really minor problem for this kind of music, but can be troublesome in more complex pieces where you want to try to show emphasis for different instruments at the same time. A better way to go about it would have been to have a Slider-Slider-Slider-Slider pattern for the first 4/4, and then Slider-Circle-Circle-Slider-Slider for the second, as this adds an extra click with the whistle hitsound that clearly shows you're hitting the synth. This allows for more consistent jump patterns as well - cursor movement can emphasize instruments just as well as clicks.
  3. 00:19:794 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - There is zero reason to put claps on these. That is to say, "These are the last two pieces of the section" isn't a good enough reason - there is nothing musically special about them, and the clap sound does not fit as a random addition.
  4. 00:22:505 (1,5) - No reason for these whistles. This continues over and over.
  5. 00:23:861 (1,5) - Same here, but...
  6. 00:24:709 (6) - This could totally have had a whistle. This should also be the new combo as 00:24:709 (6,1,2) - are all scratch noises, but 6's scratch is different from 1 and 2 so it being left as a circle is totally fitting.
  7. 00:28:268 (2) - Should have a clap.
  8. 00:28:607 (5) - Should have a whistle on the start if you are emphasizing the instrument here, that is different from the drum clap.
  9. 00:28:777 (6) - Should have a clap, for the drum clap.
  10. 00:28:946 (1) - shouldn't have new combo
  11. 00:29:624 (3) - +Clap
  12. 00:29:963 (6) - Same whistle on start + clap issues. This repeats over and over as it is consistent but does not follow the music: The thump and drum hits are two separate instruments but are being represented by the same hitsound or different hitsounds inconsistently.
  13. 00:31:319 (6) - This is normally a 1/4 slider and a circle, which actually does fit quite well, why is it a kick here? There's nothing musically different, so you should keep things consistent: Spacing is much less lenient for emphasis than actual clicks, but clicks are vital.
  14. 00:31:658 (1) - Should also not have new combos. I am fine with new combos on the track scratches, they emphasize instruments. These do nothing except keep the combo from hitting double digits (which does not matter)
  15. 00:33:014 (3,4) - Don't just copy+paste 1 and 2. That is super lazy. Do something like this
  16. 00:38:438 (3,4) - ^^ do something like this or it's just not emphasized, it's just copy+pasted.
  17. The buildup before the kiai is super nice. I wish you kept the clap hitsounds from the previous section for these though: 00:41:488 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - , softclap sucks.
  18. 00:43:860 (7) - Should really really have some kind of hitsound.
  19. 00:45:895 (3,4) - Seriously, do SOMETHING to these on your next map. Copy+paste and doing nothing to them is the epitome of laziness and your first map should not be lazy. Ctrl+G 3 and 4 individually, looks pretty cool imo.
  20. 00:46:743 (1,2) - Swap new combos. New combo should be on 2. I blame HR88 and Bara more than you for these, they should know better as modders how to do new comboing and hitsound modding.
  21. 00:57:760 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - Basically the kiai is a mess as far as rhythm consistency goes. You need to decide whether you are going to stick to slider-circle-slider-circle offbeat patterns or circle-circle-slider-circle-circle-slider bounce beats. This causes the kiai to play awkwardly in the best parts. (I can understand it can get confusing because the consistent beat is interrupted by the scratches
  22. 01:08:606 (1,2) - Why isn't this a slider instead of two circles like every other pattern similar to this in the map? This is what I don't understand.
  23. Also your soft hitsounding after the kiai is really lacklustre, you should try to use the custom hitsounds you have instead of softclaps (as they suck)
  24. 01:14:030 (1) - okay for these you want to have them all clicks instead of sliders because of the voice that's fine but there's no reason for such a huge jump from 1->2. It doesn't even drop the star rating.
  25. 01:16:403 (3,4,5,6,1) - these should have drum hitsounds as the drums are very strong for these notes.
  26. 01:29:285 (3,4) - again, these are lazy and honestly don't even play that well or interestingly. Oh wait, this is copy+pasted from the first kiai.
  27. 01:42:674 (4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - this star is extremely bad please keep in mind for the future.
  28. The section directly after the kiai has over 0.5 of the star rating due to the excessive spacing of the 1/2 notes but whatever, "my style".
  29. 01:56:403 (3,4) - these are better off ctrl+g'd to keep the rotation of the cursor while having the break to a new position happens on a new combo. This is much easier to read and (ugh ) flows better. Keep these kinds of motions in mind for the future.


Again this isn't a DQ mod, just wanted to get some explanations going here. I think this map is perfectly fine to go through to ranking, again, because it's the mapper's first ranked map, and thus quality standards are fine to be a tad bit lower. But the kind of modding this map has gotten has confused me. Everyone was all up and arms about the spread and apparently everyone looked real closely at the map (right....?) and they didn't notice all of that up there? Seems like mostly everyone lost track of their job, here - be good modders, not good judges.

(And I didn't even take a close look at the other difficulties)
Last edited by Shiirn , edited 1 time in total.
Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
Again, that was not a DQ mod.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
you could have done that like... before people went ahead and requalified because now it in fact looks like a dq mod.

Putting it into your mod 4 times that it's not intended to be shows me that you are pretty aware of that though.
Arphimigon
1,659 posts
Joined December 2014
Arphimigon

Yuii- wrote:

Again, that was not a DQ mod.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Again, it wasn't - people will jump down my throat because i'm rude/mean/whatever, so I had to disclaimer it - I think it's fine to go through to ranking as it is but there are many points of (albeit minor) improvement possible that I am astonished that this array of mods and checks didn't even notice.

Okoratu wrote:

you could have done that like... before people went ahead and requalified because now it in fact looks like a dq mod.

Putting it into your mod 4 times that it's not intended to be shows me that you are pretty aware of that though.
I was busy the past few days and when I logged on today it had already been qualified because it was rebubbled and qualified over the course of like five hours. It's more pointed at you and the rest of the BNs than anyone else (monstrata excepted) who seemed to start going against eachother instead of going over the map.
Last edited by Shiirn , edited 1 time in total.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
so why not fix them up, if the mapper really cares about all that minor stuff you brought up they would probably agree to take it down again to improve it further :D

lol I see so it's a fuck you directed to me for getting caught up in a spread discussion on this thread because i thought the line of reasoning presented by hr88 wasn't really the way people should go about judging it.

edit 4: i need to add a disclaimer that the last paragraph above is purely sarcastic and should not be taken out of context or seriously.
Last edited by Okoayu , edited 4 times in total.
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen
Damn, I feel bad now :cry:
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88

xDarxen wrote:

Damn, I feel bad now :cry:
Feel free to poke me back once you've adressed Shiirn's hitsound-mod. \:D/
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

xDarxen wrote:

Damn, I feel bad now :cry:
Don't feel bad, beatmapping is like that lately, reply to the mod if you want to improve something then do and request a DQ, anyways don't give up and call me if you need me here. GL
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
if placeholders didnt become a meme, putting a placeholder for HR88 and Bara to see would have totally avoided this issue xD.

Too bad everything is a meme nowadays. Inb4 "That was not a DQ mod" becomes a meme.

Disclaimer: That was not a DQ mod.
Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-

monstrata wrote:

Too bad everything is a meme nowadays. Inb4 "That was not a DQ mod" becomes a meme.
Taking care of that!
xDarxen
313 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
xDarxen
Okay, after a lot of thinking, I've decided not to change anything. I actually like the way it is right now. If it gets DQed for an other reason, I will probably take advantage of that to improve some things. I will definitely take the suggestions into consideration though, so my future maps improve.

Thank you!
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Like I said, that's fine - it was all stuff you should just keep in mind for your future maps. The mod was just as much for the other observers as it was for the mapper himself.
Kuki
722 posts
Joined October 2013
Kuki

Monstrata wrote:

if placeholders didnt become a meme, putting a placeholder for HR88 and Bara to see would have totally avoided this issue xD.

Too bad everything is a meme nowadays. Inb4 "That was not a DQ mod" becomes a meme.

Disclaimer: That was not a DQ mod.
haha
Zerss
730 posts
Joined December 2013
Zerss
Finally ranked! Gratz~
winnerspiros
120 posts
Joined February 2014
winnerspiros
Congratz! :D
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