18:00 DeltaLeeds: So
18:00 DeltaLeeds: I gave in
18:00 DeltaLeeds: And increased CS
18:00 DeltaLeeds: *Omnious music*
18:01 Bonsai: but why? O.o
18:01 DeltaLeeds: Well if even my friends who don't mod maps say the circles are like ants
18:01 DeltaLeeds: I guess I have to give in
18:01 DeltaLeeds: But...
18:01 DeltaLeeds: I only iincreased the CS a tiny bit
18:01 DeltaLeeds: Maybe you can check it out?
18:01 DeltaLeeds: I also fixed some patterns
18:01 DeltaLeeds: Hopefully I didn't screw up :S
18:02 Bonsai: increasing CS normally means making them even smaller, since CS5<CS4 lol
18:02 DeltaLeeds: LOL
18:02 DeltaLeeds: Ok so I meant decrease
18:02 DeltaLeeds: XD
18:02 Bonsai: and people who are not experienced in modding or mapping and don't even provide any reasoning to their points don't know anything
18:02 Bonsai: lol
18:03 Bonsai: don't just believe what random people say, always ask >why< you should do something or why it would be better ^^
18:03 DeltaLeeds: Yeah I usually do that
18:03 Bonsai: and now the CS-spread is kinda broken bc it goes 3-4.5-5
18:04 Bonsai: (wasn't the Normal 4.5 already O.o)
18:04 DeltaLeeds: Hmm yeah
18:04 DeltaLeeds: Lol
18:04 DeltaLeeds: Ok I'm very confused no
18:04 DeltaLeeds: w
18:04 Bonsai: lol
18:04 DeltaLeeds: I'm not even sure I changed anything now rofl
18:04 Bonsai: ^^
18:04 DeltaLeeds: I changed some patterns
18:04 Bonsai: I downloaded it a few hours ago and there the Normals already was 4.5 ^^
18:05 Bonsai: well, I'll just start pointing out a few things now
18:05 DeltaLeeds: Check out hard's 00:05:928 - 00:08:017
18:05 DeltaLeeds: So I didn't change anything then XD
18:05 DeltaLeeds: Sure
18:06 Bonsai: yeah I just noticed 00:07:122 (4,5,6,7,1) - this looks pretty cramped now, didn't see any reason to change it before o:
18:06 Bonsai: ah I read what the guy said
18:06 Bonsai: ok here's the deal:
18:07 Bonsai: making a big change of direction at 00:05:331 (6) - only emphasizes 00:05:629 (7) - and does not really affect (6) itself in any way
18:07 Bonsai: but
18:07 Bonsai: (7) doesn't deserve any special emphasis, whereas 00:05:928 (1) - does bc it's the downbeat
18:07 Bonsai: so you want a direction change on (7)
18:07 Bonsai: to emphasize (1)
18:07 DeltaLeeds: Ah
18:07 DeltaLeeds: True
18:08 DeltaLeeds: Alright I'll think of how to change it xD
18:08 Bonsai: and thus imo changing the next combo back would be better ^^
18:08 Bonsai: bc 00:10:106 (6,7,1) - is very nice
18:08 DeltaLeeds: Yeah
18:09 DeltaLeeds: The other combos are nice though I have to agree with that xD
18:09 DeltaLeeds: I did notice that the combo pointed out was a bit too dull
18:09 DeltaLeeds: Like one straight line
18:09 DeltaLeeds: But yeah it's better to make it remain that way xD
18:09 DeltaLeeds: Let me think of a nice combo
18:10 Bonsai: but it fits as the music is monotonous too, it's just the same sound four times, nothing special about that ^^
18:10 DeltaLeeds: Haha yeah
18:10 DeltaLeeds: When I think about it, that's why the combo was like that XD
18:10 Bonsai: no rush, tell me when you're finished ^^
18:10 Bonsai: ^^
18:10 DeltaLeeds: Sure thing
18:10 DeltaLeeds: Thanks again
18:15 DeltaLeeds: Ok
18:15 DeltaLeeds: I uploaded a new version
18:16 Bonsai: ok that combo is fine now, but 00:05:331 (6,7,1) - is still just one line without direction-change at (7)
18:17 DeltaLeeds: Hmmm
18:18 DeltaLeeds: Tbh, I'm not really sure on how I could change that part... xP
18:19 Bonsai: well yeah, that's the thing about the modding process, some things can be really hard to change : \
18:20 Bonsai: it would be cool if 00:04:734 (4,5,6,7) - formed perfect triangles so you can put (1) at the place where (5) is too
18:20 Bonsai: but then you'd still have to change the rest of the combo ofc
18:20 DeltaLeeds: How about something like this?
18:20 DeltaLeeds:
http://puu.sh/nvNCp/29c3366b54.jpg18:20 DeltaLeeds: Hey, I think I did something like that in 6,7,1
18:20 Bonsai: well, that's not a very sharp direction change, just the same as at 00:05:032 (5) - which is very minor
18:20 DeltaLeeds: Check it out, is the one in the ss better? xD
18:20 DeltaLeeds: Right..
18:20 Bonsai: almost ^^
18:21 Bonsai: wait
18:21 Bonsai: waitwawitwait
18:21 DeltaLeeds:
http://puu.sh/nvNCp/29c3366b54.jpg18:21 DeltaLeeds: How bout this? 8)
18:21 DeltaLeeds: OOps
18:21 DeltaLeeds:
http://puu.sh/nvNGQ/49315fed35.jpg18:21 DeltaLeeds: Sorry
18:22 DeltaLeeds: This must be the one you're expecting
18:22 DeltaLeeds: I really hope it is
18:22 Bonsai: lol
18:22 Bonsai: yup
18:22 Bonsai: ^^^
18:22 DeltaLeeds:
18:22 DeltaLeeds: Yeah it seems much better!
18:22 Bonsai: \:D/
18:22 DeltaLeeds: The sharp direction change
18:22 DeltaLeeds: Makes it all the more interesting! ^^
18:22 Bonsai: exactly
18:23 Bonsai: tell me when ready for next point ^^
18:23 DeltaLeeds: Okedoke
18:24 DeltaLeeds: I'm sure I can change some other stuff now
18:27 DeltaLeeds: Are these type of patterns good?
18:27 DeltaLeeds:
http://puu.sh/nvNYp/5728ed142d.jpg18:27 DeltaLeeds: Or is it better to spread the notes out a little?
18:28 Bonsai: they're called stacks and are totally fine ^^ spreading them out gives more emphasis to each of them, but since this is already rather hard it's probably better to keep it stacked
18:28 Bonsai: or just space it very little, up to you
18:28 Bonsai: can also just be a design-choice ^^
18:29 DeltaLeeds: I'll keep it as-is for now. It does give emphasis at the right moments imo xP
18:29 Bonsai: yup ^^
18:29 DeltaLeeds: Alright
18:30 DeltaLeeds: I updated :3
18:30 DeltaLeeds: But yeah only that part so far
18:30 Bonsai: ok next one will be easy to fix hehe
18:30 DeltaLeeds: Sure thing
18:30 Bonsai: 00:10:405 (7,1,2) - I see that you didn't put them in a straight line bc you ran out of playfield, but instead of doing that you could just move all previous objects to the right since you got enough space left on the right
18:32 DeltaLeeds: Ah
18:32 DeltaLeeds: Alright
18:32 Bonsai: next point: 00:11:898 (4,5,6,7) - (5,7) are actually overmapped, there are no notes there, so you should at least replace this combo with two 1/2-sliders bc slidertails being overmapped is quite common, but >imo< making it just one 1/1-slider would fit even better
18:33 DeltaLeeds: Yeah 5 and 7 isn't really a note now, is it? xD
18:33 DeltaLeeds: It should just be a slider from 4 and 6
18:33 Bonsai: yup, it's overmapped, that's what it's called when you map an object where no note is ^^
18:34 DeltaLeeds: Ah, I'll keep that in mind
18:35 Bonsai: ok, next point
00:13:092 (1,2) - 00:17:868 (1,2) - the heads of the (2)s are actually almost overmapped, there is only this very quiet bcakground-sound which goes constantly through the entire song (even the previous where I said it's overmapped, didn't even hear it there ^^), so my suggestion would be to make (1) a 1/2-slider and then add a cricle after that
18:35 Bonsai: since the note on the blue tick is the really prominent one here
18:36 DeltaLeeds: Alright xP
18:37 DeltaLeeds: So 1 should be the slider instead then right?
18:37 Bonsai: exactly
18:38 Bonsai: Next points are very nazi / minor: 00:15:480 (1,2) - First, those sliders aren't really symmetric, if you move one of them so the red anchor in the middle is on the vertical middle line of the editor, and then swap it horizontally, then you'll see that the white anchors move, which they shouldn't ^^
18:38 Bonsai: (shortcut for swapping is ctrl-h for horizontal and ctrl-j for vertical btw)
18:39 DeltaLeeds: Got it.
18:39 Bonsai: and the second thing about those is that the tail of (1) isn't in the middle of (2) and vice versa ^^
18:40 DeltaLeeds: Ah ok
18:41 Bonsai: next point is something I already pointed out once iirc: Do you have stacking viewed? Bc 00:20:256 (1,2) - and 00:29:808 (1,2) - don't auto-stack for some reason, so I recommend to manually move them three pixels to the right / bottom
18:41 DeltaLeeds: Ah yes the auto-stack error
18:41 DeltaLeeds: Okay
18:41 DeltaLeeds:
18:41 Bonsai: It's called auto-stacking when you put notes on top of each other and they automatically move by 3x3 pixels, and when it doesn't you call that a perfect stack
18:42 Bonsai: 00:25:032 (1,2) - previous Nazi-thing again ^^
18:42 Bonsai: oh and 00:22:644 (1,2,1,2) - too, didn't say that everything repetas four times ^^
18:43 Bonsai: and 00:46:525 (1,2) - I geuss ^^
18:45 Bonsai: now since you didn't space 1/4s anywhere else in the map, I'd recommend to stack 00:33:241 (3,4) - too so it stays and consistent and isn't harder to play than the rest of the map, + it also fits better to the rest aesthetically since 00:34:584 (1,2,3) - is also a triangle for example
18:46 DeltaLeeds: Haha I'm still stuck at the auto stack thing xD
18:46 DeltaLeeds: I can only got to max 4,3
18:46 DeltaLeeds: Not 3,3
18:46 DeltaLeeds: After that it goes to 0,0 again
18:46 Bonsai: oh
18:46 Bonsai: ohoh
18:46 Bonsai: you can just
18:46 Bonsai: move them in single steps by alt+arrow keys
18:46 Bonsai: ^^
18:47 DeltaLeeds: LOL
18:47 DeltaLeeds: Right!
18:47 Bonsai: if that's your problem
18:47 DeltaLeeds: Thanks XD
18:47 Bonsai:
18:47 DeltaLeeds: I forgot that button to be honest
18:47 Bonsai: ^^
18:47 DeltaLeeds: *That shortcut
18:48 DeltaLeeds: Wait
18:48 DeltaLeeds: Weird
18:48 DeltaLeeds: Doesnn't work for me
18:49 Bonsai: oh
18:49 Bonsai: ctrl
18:49 DeltaLeeds: You mean move the slider 1 step up/down/left/right?
18:49 Bonsai: instead of alt
18:49 Bonsai: whoops
18:49 DeltaLeeds: Ah
18:49 DeltaLeeds: Got it!
18:49 DeltaLeeds: Perf
18:49 DeltaLeeds:
18:49 DeltaLeeds: ect
18:49 Bonsai: I'm never aware of what the exact buttons are, I just do it instinctively ^^
18:49 DeltaLeeds: That shows you're an experienced modder
18:50 Bonsai: hehe
18:50 DeltaLeeds: Anyway so 0,0 difference is not allowed?
18:50 DeltaLeeds: Only stacking?
18:51 Bonsai: well it's not technically forbidden, but it's inconsistent with the rest of the map for no reason and might be confusing
18:51 Bonsai: on more difficult maps it's used mor often, for specific patterns
18:51 Bonsai: but when used wrong it can be still hard to read, but that generally only applies when the lwoer object is a circle, since sliders are easy to notice
18:55 DeltaLeeds: Ah
19:00 DeltaLeeds: Hahah this nazi stuff is killing me
19:00 Bonsai: ^^
19:00 DeltaLeeds: The white dots keep moving
19:01 Bonsai: well, you can just turn the grid snap big and use that
19:01 Bonsai: do you know what I mean?
19:01 Bonsai: pressing g will change the size
19:01 Bonsai: and t activates / deactivates gridsnap
19:01 DeltaLeeds: Still TT
19:01 DeltaLeeds: XD
19:01 DeltaLeeds: Ahhhh
19:02 DeltaLeeds: Hopefully it'll be easier XD
19:02 Bonsai: so then you just have to make the dots symmetric, and then scale the slider down so it's exactly as long as it needs to be
19:02 Bonsai: (shortcut for scaling is ctrl-shift-s)
19:02 Bonsai: so, scale it down so much that it's as long as it should be in the timeline, but making it one nudge smaller would be too short
19:03 DeltaLeeds: Ah yes
19:03 DeltaLeeds: The tail keeps getting waaay shorter
19:05 DeltaLeeds: The problem is the tail's circle center and anchor point can't meet ><
19:05 DeltaLeeds: XD
19:06 Bonsai: well I mean it doesn't need to be 100% right
19:06 Bonsai: but 99% is already good enough
19:07 DeltaLeeds: My nazi instinct insists I make it 100% :'(
19:07 DeltaLeeds: Haha
19:10 DeltaLeeds: Well my oh no it's late instincts told me to keep it as it were before XD
19:10 Bonsai: O:
19:10 Bonsai: why?
19:11 DeltaLeeds: I mean the 99% thing
19:11 DeltaLeeds: No need for 100% xD
19:11 DeltaLeeds: It's as symmetrical as I can do xD
19:11 Bonsai: oh yeah ^^
19:11 DeltaLeeds: If not there will be a holocaust in my brain. XD
19:12 DeltaLeeds: Millions of brain cells dead because of the nazi sliders
19:12 Bonsai: ok so I'll just list the next few things on one go since I just got a mod on one of my maps myself ^_^
19:12 DeltaLeeds: Sure
19:12 Bonsai: 00:37:271 (2,3,4,5) - nazi too but imo it would look nicer you space it more horizontally so the stack is in the middle of those sliders again ^^
19:13 DeltaLeeds: Put the irc mod in the post
19:13 DeltaLeeds: So I can give your well-earned kudosu
19:13 Bonsai: 00:39:360 (1,2,3) - here it's not really clear what melody you are following, since there's quite a bit left out on the first slider which is probably what you mapped on the next two objects
19:14 Bonsai: aaaaaand that's it for the Hard \o/
19:15 DeltaLeeds: Yay!
19:15 DeltaLeeds: Alrighty I finished the 37271 nazi...
19:15 Bonsai: now in the Normal, the very first spinner is ending on no prominent beat, extending it until the downbeat and starting to map at 00:04:734 (2) - again, that would also leave more recovery time since that's unclear anyways ^^
19:15 Bonsai: the first two notes of 00:13:390 (2) - are overmapped as in the Hard : \
19:15 Bonsai: which repeats itself obviously
19:16 Bonsai: my suggestion would be
19:16 Bonsai: aah puush so slow
19:16 Bonsai: [http://puu.sh/nvQC9/b15a6891d3.jpg this]
19:16 Bonsai: that would follow the melody much better
19:17 DeltaLeeds: Ah, sure
19:18 Bonsai: this offbeat-slider (offbeat because it starts on a lower tick than it ends) is not that fitting since there is no particular strong sound on the head, whereas the tail is naturally more important bc beat priority, so change that combo around a bit, maybe let (2) reverse or smth like that
19:18 Bonsai: o forgot timestampt lol 00:33:092 (3) -
19:18 Bonsai: and yeah, that's it for Normal!
19:19 Bonsai: (just repeating stuff)
19:19 DeltaLeeds: Haha xD
19:19 DeltaLeeds: That's good enough
19:19 Bonsai: yeah the spinner-end in Normal is random again, I will ask some experienced Nominators whether it would be fine to only have two beats recovery time since the song is so slow : \
19:20 Bonsai: yeah since you lowered the CS 00:32:196 (1,2,3) - is now toucheing which looks pretty bad, I'd just make the CS 4 again, there's no reason to lower it ^^
19:21 Bonsai: 00:41:151 (1) - is weird bc it leaves out the most important beat, the downbeat at 00:41:749 - , so I'd just suggest [http://puu.sh/nvQUi/49b242df92.jpg this rhythm]
19:21 Bonsai: aaaand done
19:21 Bonsai: