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(Question / Help) Is hidden a good way to learn to stream?

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Total Posts
67
Electrify
8 posts
Joined August 2015
Topic Starter
Electrify
Been trying to improve my accuracy as of the past few weeks, and it seems that my biggest issue is streams. Anything below 190bpm = me getting a row of 100's and 50's. I've tried listening to the music very closely, taking one earphone off to listen to my keyboard, etc. But I still can't seem to get the hang of streams. I don't think my stamina is the problem, since I could easily do long streams without missing any (getting a good acc is a different story). Could it be that I can only do around 190 bpm whilst getting minimal 100's since they're usually AR 9(Which I'm most used to)? As it stands, I can really only average 70% - 80% acc on those long 140 - 160 bpm stream practice maps, and I really want to improve my acc.

So would hidden be a good alternative? Everyone says that hidden really makes you listen to the music, but does that apply to streams / stream practice maps aswell?
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,310 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
close your eyes while you play with hidden. Hidden doesn't force you to listen to the music ,lol.

Make sure that you actually HIT the streams.
I have seen so many newbies misaiming the streams then think their rhythm sense sucks.
If you hit the streams but still get 100s and 50s, see if the hit error moves to the left or the right.
Moving to the right means your hits are slower than the streams. (speed up)
Moving to the left means your hits are faster than the streams. (slow down)

also players tend to speed up their streaming because they dont have good finger control. Practice will fix this. (I still do that from time to time.)

also dont play autopilot, aim plays a huge role in streaming.
Streaming isn't something you learn overnight. It takes a lot of work.
jaaakb
2,497 posts
Joined December 2013
jaaakb
try lower bpm, 100-120 bpm with 1/4 streams/triples maybe

getting 70-80% is fine if you try to get better acc, kinda know what goes wrong in tapping
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial

Electrify wrote:

those long 140 - 160 bpm stream practice maps
There's your problem, now go find some proper stream maps to practice your acc.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Electrify wrote:

those long 140 - 160 bpm stream practice maps
There's your problem, now go find some proper stream maps to practice your acc.

Stream practice maps are novelties and generally not very good
KanoSet
906 posts
Joined October 2014
KanoSet
hidden maybe good for aiming streams but not for acc
never lose hope my friend
Deva
2,343 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
Hidden will just ruin your skill set if you arent somewhat good at no mod.
Focus on acc and after some time something will click and you will start getting better at streams.
Minhtam
550 posts
Joined September 2014
Minhtam

Khelly wrote:

N0thingSpecial wrote:

There's your problem, now go find some proper stream maps to practice your acc.
Stream practice maps are novelties and generally not very good
They don't have to be "good". They just have to be properly timed and aimed at improving fundamentals.
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial

Minhtam wrote:

They don't have to be "good". They just have to be properly timed and aimed at improving fundamentals.
But they don't improve fundamentals they just gives you an indication of how good are you in streaming, long stream maps doesn't even address the most fundamental thing which is when to even start a stream. OP might even be getting 100s and 50s cause he started early.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
Hidden will not help you improve your streaming because it gives you even less feedback about how you're doing.
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
It is reading preference. I cant track streams with HD even with gun pointed at my head. Despite my decent stream accuracy. HD makes me nervous.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Minhtam wrote:

They don't have to be "good". They just have to be properly timed and aimed at improving fundamentals.
If you want to "improve fundamentals", then play an actual map that contains lots of streams. Stream practice maps are nothing more than straight lines that test whether or not you can maintan acc at a certain speed. That's hardly the half of streaming.

You're much better off playing maps like:

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/289256

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/658120

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/517308

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/408378

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/657917

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/569113

and literally every ranked and possibly unranked Dragonforce map if you want to practice streams.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
They don't have to be "good". They just have to be properly timed and aimed at improving fundamentals.
They give you literally nothing except stamina. I don't know where you see there any fundamentals kek.
Since stream acc is very connected to how you aim stream - also acc on stream practice map is very delusional since... there is zero aim on them.
Kunino Sagiri
272 posts
Joined January 2012
Kunino Sagiri

[Taiga] wrote:

They give you literally nothing except stamina. I don't know where you see there any fundamentals.
Stamina is a fundamental for FC'ing hard things. Streaming is a fundamental for FC'ing actually hard things. A lot of 5 stars have long streams and these are good sandbags so you don't complain in G&R or your head "hurr I can't stream I suck so much" when you've been given a couple of 30-40 note streams.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
30-40 note streams with no aim are not very long.
Kunino Sagiri
272 posts
Joined January 2012
Kunino Sagiri

Khelly wrote:

30-40 note streams with no aim are not very long.
Not for someone who didn't actually try to train it.
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Khelly wrote:

30-40 note streams with no aim are not very long.
^This. There are very few maps I can think of where you'd need to stream more than 33 and even then it's usually not more than 17. I don't train streams yet I can play most 5-6.5* maps just fine. I can make it through the 49x streams in mariannE just fine if I'm warmed up. Very few maps actually require dedicated stamina training.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
30-40 note streams with intense aim are very long.
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
Tapping stamina has nothing to do with aim. Well unless maybe you miss note and need to speed up or somethin if thats what you mean.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

KukiMonster wrote:

Tapping stamina has nothing to do with aim. Well unless maybe you miss note and need to speed up or somethin if thats what you mean.
Tapping stamina is directly affected by aim and as aim gets harder, stamina is weaker. If you can longstream 220-250 bpm, I can give you maps.
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
I think what Khelly is trying to get at is that as spacing of the stream increases your effective hit window decreases since you are moving in a smooth motion and not snapping each circle. As a result you have to be much more precise with your tapping which is difficult to do while remaining relaxed. By not relaxing as much you take a significant hit to your stamina. When the spacing is almost equivalent to a stack you can basically just fire away at your keys and incur whatever 50s and 100s you want because your cursor will be over top the circle for the entirety of the hit window.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
It might be different for mouse users, but this is an observation I've had for awhile when I am wondering why my stamina is shit on some maps than less spaced ones at the same bpm or higher bpm though they're both stream heavy.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Mouse is different. The weight is far heavier than tablet so you're gonna have to tense
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
By the way, I find these streams take LESS Stamina than curvy spaced shit like Freedomdive or if Blue Zenith was 222 bpm. I wanted to give an example before but :effort:

TMiracle
167 posts
Joined December 2011
TMiracle
Question:

I can stream 190-220bpm just fine, but insta-miss anything below 180bpm, is that normal?

and is there a gradual way to learn streaming, as in, gradually increase/decrease bmp, or just simply play whatever and with time it should be okay?
Last edited by TMiracle , edited 4 times in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I just like, play whatever.

I jumped from 180 -> 220 -> 240 -> 270 though if that means anything.
Nabel_old_1
Nabel_old_1

TMiracle wrote:

Question:

I can stream 190-220bpm just fine, but insta-miss anything below 180bpm, is that normal?

and is there a gradual way to learn streaming, as in, gradually increase/decrease bmp, or just simply play whatever and with time it should be okay?
wish i could stream 220 bpm :(
just play whatever you like you'll learn how to stream lower/higher bpm(i hope since im in a similar situation).
for me streams are like this:
120 or lower => singletap
120-150 no clue how to do these I just pray that I dont miss by overstreaming
150-185 = low acc but can fc
185-200= high acc
200+ => meh im too slow
TMiracle
167 posts
Joined December 2011
TMiracle

Nabel wrote:

wish i could stream 220 bpm :(
just play whatever you like you'll learn how to stream lower/higher bpm(i hope since im in a similar situation).
for me streams are like this:
120 or lower => singletap
120-150 no clue how to do these I just pray that I dont miss by overstreaming
150-185 = low acc but can fc
185-200= high acc
200+ => meh im too slow
Well for 220 it's not exactly ''can ez stream'', it's more like super tryhard and hitting keyboards like a madman, as fast as I bloody can, but somehow I don't miss, so I guess that counts.

I miss on singles after those though, since I gain so much momentum during the stream, I usually click singles too fast.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
That's 270-300 territory right there mate
TMiracle
167 posts
Joined December 2011
TMiracle
I take back my words, 220 bmp is too fast for professional 50k rank player like me.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
I can't even do 200bpm and I'm 6k
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Don't use four dimensions as an example of 220 because the aim is too hard. Try Tout Petit Moneau which is near 222 or "This calling" which is a relaxing 216.
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
I dunno I never drop stamina on spaced streams aim hand suffers tho. Guess its just tapping preference I always tap light.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
You also use a mouse too, so there's that.
TMiracle
167 posts
Joined December 2011
TMiracle

Khelly wrote:

Don't use four dimensions as an example of 220 because the aim is too hard. Try Tout Petit Moneau which is near 222 or "This calling" which is a relaxing 216.
thanks! if I start properly, I usually can clear them, tho on the really long ones I don't have enough stamina and quickly go into 100..50...rekt (tho it also might be because of the freedom dive I did before, cuz after feeedom dive my hand literally hurts and fingers are shaking, feeling like metal rods).

So I guess taking that into account, after I actually get more ranks and skill, I have potential for 220 after all x__x
though I guess I shouldn't touch these maps till I can 98% normal pleb 5.0* maps at least
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

TMiracle wrote:

though I guess I shouldn't touch these maps till I can 98% normal pleb 5.0* maps at least
I didn't give a fuck about acc and had 90-95% fc's of everything until 4000pp.
TMiracle
167 posts
Joined December 2011
TMiracle

Khelly wrote:

TMiracle wrote:

though I guess I shouldn't touch these maps till I can 98% normal pleb 5.0* maps at least
I didn't give a fuck about acc and had 90-95% fc's of everything until 4000pp.
Idk... I was just like that and was stuck on same pp count for 2months or so,but then two days ago I thought that no mater how fast I am - it does matter if I can't fc things. So I decided to focus on lower diff songs and try to train consistency and acc instead. Raised my acc on most songs by 10%, so most of the stuff is now 98% average and gained 50pp in one day. Which after being stuck for weeks is quite a lot for me at least. So ye, that's the way it worked for me...

Dunno how, but that actually improved my streaming like crazy as well, even though I didn't even stream during that time.

Edit: now that I think about it, getting the first note right is probably the most important thing when streaming, cuz then even if you are inconsistent, you might jsut get away with few 100 or 50 rather than miss (unless it's a crazy long death-stream,then you are done for regardless).
Kunino Sagiri
272 posts
Joined January 2012
Kunino Sagiri

Khelly wrote:

I didn't give a fuck about acc and had 90-95% fc's of everything
Literally how? How can you mash FC 5 star jumps? That's impossible even with a tablet.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

Khelly wrote:

I didn't give a fuck about acc and had 90-95% fc's of everything
Literally how? How can you mash 5 star jumps? That's impossible even with a tablet.
You should rethink the term "mashing". I just had bad timing and acc. It's not randomly alternating everything. Do you want one of my replays from back then?

Edit: Finding better example[/url]
Last edited by Yuudachi-kun , edited 2 times in total.
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
Secret to cheesing your way to high DT acc is to just play the map OD11 until you fc it then switch to the real version.



































Or just use nightcore with music set to 0%
Kunino Sagiri
272 posts
Joined January 2012
Kunino Sagiri

Khelly wrote:

You should rethink the term "mashing". I just had bad timing and acc. It's not randomly alternating everything. Do you want one of my replays from back then?
I don't really know if FC'ing things with bad acc is considered "bad timing", you're hitting them so you're consistently within the requirement for that sweet 300. And nah, I'm fine.
Last edited by Kunino Sagiri , edited 1 time in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

Khelly wrote:

You should rethink the term "mashing". I just had bad timing and acc. It's not randomly alternating everything. Do you want one of my replays from back then?
I don't really know if FC'ing things is considered "bad timing", you're hitting them so you're consistently within the requirement for that sweet 300. And nah, I'm fine.
What? You don't know if having 90% acc on Fc's is bad timing?

Here have an almost fc.

Fucking od7 too.
Kunino Sagiri
272 posts
Joined January 2012
Kunino Sagiri
I wish I had that talent :|
Nabel_old_1
Nabel_old_1

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

Khelly wrote:

You should rethink the term "mashing". I just had bad timing and acc. It's not randomly alternating everything. Do you want one of my replays from back then?
I don't really know if FC'ing things with bad acc is considered "bad timing", you're hitting them so you're consistently within the requirement for that sweet 300. And nah, I'm fine.
http://puu.sh/n9VUV/e19a7d2fb2.png Am I a masher? :( all my 5 star fcs are shit acc :/ (dem A rank fcs gotta love them) Streams always destroy my acc if they are out of my comfort zone. But streamy maps are the only 5 star maps I can fc feelsbad.
DeathHydra
652 posts
Joined November 2015
DeathHydra

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

I don't really know if FC'ing things with bad acc is considered "bad timing", you're hitting them so you're consistently within the requirement for that sweet 300.
It is bad timing. Hitting too early is bad timing right?

Not always bad timing though. Sometimes I have bad acc because I misread 1 part (like Khelly did on his replay, I think he misread the beginning? Not sure) and getting 50s and 100s but the combo doesn't break.

I'm more or less similar to Khelly, bad timing (idk, I feel like i hit the circles at the right timing most of the time yet still many 100s).
KanoSet
906 posts
Joined October 2014
KanoSet
i couldn't stream 180 bpm when i was 11k
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
That's because you never practiced.
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial

Khelly wrote:

That's because you never practiced.
Holy shit why didn't I think of that, Khelly you da real mvp
KanoSet
906 posts
Joined October 2014
KanoSet

Khelly wrote:

That's because you never practiced.
aye aye
Mvsk
87 posts
Joined August 2014
Mvsk
If you are getting a whole string of 100's or 50's then you are either starting the stream a little too early or a little too late. You could have your mind STUCK focused thinking that 1 sound in the song could be the start of the stream when it could be something else. I suggest watching some replays on whichever map you're working on.

I would also suggest to NOT do slower streams. If you're like me when it comes to streams (and it sounds like you are) it's much easier to do faster ones. Play some stream maps and when you find a fit that is good for your natural speed work on that map. When you can consistently do well at your natural stream speed then you can lower it or speed it up with new maps.

My top ranks don't really show it but ever since 2 - 2.5 stars a year ago i could stream quite well. But that doesn't really matter when you aren't fluent in AR9, squares, triangles, jumps etc
silento
298 posts
Joined June 2015
silento

Mvsk wrote:

If you are getting a whole string of 100's or 50's then you are either starting the stream a little too early or a little too late. You could have your mind STUCK focused thinking that 1 sound in the song could be the start of the stream when it could be something else. I suggest watching some replays on whichever map you're working on.

I would also suggest to NOT do slower streams. If you're like me when it comes to streams (and it sounds like you are) it's much easier to do faster ones. Play some stream maps and when you find a fit that is good for your natural speed work on that map. When you can consistently do well at your natural stream speed then you can lower it or speed it up with new maps.

My top ranks don't really show it but ever since 2 - 2.5 stars a year ago i could stream quite well. But that doesn't really matter when you aren't fluent in AR9, squares, triangles, jumps etc
Except none of your top ranks are streamy on the slightest? Also ~1k pp and call yourself good at streaming? I'm at 1.9k pp and even though streaming/stamina is my strength, I'm sure I'm not good at it.

Sorry, but I'm skeptical here.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
Streams hardly even exist at the 1k pp level, lol. At best they're talking about like 120bpm shortstreams or something, which really says nothing for streaming ability.
DeathHydra
652 posts
Joined November 2015
DeathHydra
Probably he categorized 5 1/4 notes as streaming
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie
I'm 2.3k pp and all I experienced were jumps, triples, and just more patterns. No stream-heavy maps so far.

Maybe I should just play more maps. Maybe I should not be here in this thread, too.
Yolshka
673 posts
Joined April 2014
Yolshka

Arthraxium wrote:

I'm 2.3k pp and all I experienced were jumps, triples, and just more patterns. No stream-heavy maps so far.

Maybe I should just play more maps. Maybe I should not be here in this thread, too.

Unless I'm failing to see something, I'm pretty sure you've encountered some streams, or shortstreams at least by now.From my experience they are just as common around this rank,maybe you just don't remember.
Either that or I have no idea what streams are.
Sh0keR
180 posts
Joined July 2014
Sh0keR
Try to control your tapping speed, slower streams are harder but it's hard to control your speed
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

Arthraxium wrote:

I'm 2.3k pp and all I experienced were jumps, triples, and just more patterns. No stream-heavy maps so far.

Maybe I should just play more maps. Maybe I should not be here in this thread, too.
Exceptions probably are like Rubik's Cube 7x7x7 or some medium length streams (15-20 notes). I don't play maps with lots of 20+ note streams.
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Mahogany wrote:

Streams hardly even exist at the 1k pp level, lol. At best they're talking about like 120bpm shortstreams or something, which really says nothing for streaming ability.
128bpm streams are scary dude.
DeathHydra
652 posts
Joined November 2015
DeathHydra

chainpullz wrote:

Mahogany wrote:

Streams hardly even exist at the 1k pp level, lol. At best they're talking about like 120bpm shortstreams or something, which really says nothing for streaming ability.
128bpm streams are scary dude.
That map is not for 1k pp though.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

chainpullz wrote:

Mahogany wrote:

Streams hardly even exist at the 1k pp level, lol. At best they're talking about like 120bpm shortstreams or something, which really says nothing for streaming ability.
128bpm streams are scary dude.

Give me this map
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Khelly wrote:

Give me this map
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/394808 <One of the few HW maps I actually enjoy
^Not very friendly to single tapping unfortunately. Screenshot was ar6 cs5.2 (to give an appreciation of what +HR does to the map). Props if you can actually single tap fc it though regardless of acc I guess.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I'll try later today. It looks fun and is less than 260 so I can't imagine it being worse than choppers singletap.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

chainpullz wrote:

Mahogany wrote:

Streams hardly even exist at the 1k pp level, lol. At best they're talking about like 120bpm shortstreams or something, which really says nothing for streaming ability.
128bpm streams are scary dude.
You mean 256bpm singletaps :^)
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

chainpullz wrote:

Khelly wrote:

Give me this map
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/394808 <One of the few HW maps I actually enjoy
^Not very friendly to single tapping unfortunately. Screenshot was ar6 cs5.2 (to give an appreciation of what +HR does to the map). Props if you can actually single tap fc it though regardless of acc I guess.
The parts you highlighted in the screenshot (Assuming nomod and not cs 5.2) were actually the easier parts to singletap in the song. There's a few others that are hard to read which makes them a lot harder imo.

Good reading and singletap map overall. 7/10

Still doesn't beat https://osu.ppy.sh/b/316018
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Khelly wrote:

The parts you highlighted in the screenshot (Assuming nomod and not cs 5.2) were actually the easier parts to singletap in the song. There's a few others that are hard to read which makes them a lot harder imo.

Good reading and singletap map overall. 7/10

Still doesn't beat https://osu.ppy.sh/b/316018
Yeah, those 2 maps + boys be stand up are like the only HW maps I can be assed to play tbh. I figured those streams would actually be one of the easier things for you to single tap tbh because that type of thing shows up all the time in 260bpm old maps but the other sections are why the only HR fc's are by players known for their alternating/aim spook.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/92780

Too bad older maps like this seem to have been lost to time. It's real good practice too. I think it should be ar 9.5 but whatever
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Khelly wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/92780

Too bad older maps like this seem to have been lost to time. It's real good practice too. I think it should be ar 9.5 but whatever
Tbh technical maps have gotten better over the years but that also means they tend to be worse for single tap practice. Low bpm low star maps seem to have gotten progressively worse though as people have gotten lazy. It might just be the fact that I don't follow unranked maps in that range but I feel like evilelvis is the only person consistently pushing out quality maps in that department these days.
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