snyviper wrote:

Btw, do you think it's possible to add spin skills? They're not much of a value in osu!, i know... but it's still very rewarding when you get to spin at 460+ rpm

I can say that there is no point in general, but I will rather say there is no point in doing it now. First, peppy plans to change how spinners work, second the /api/get_scores command doesn't return spin speed, so there is no way of knowing without replays. I'll leave it to kert or someone else to say why (or why not =.=) spinners skills is useless idea.

You've said the top 100 scores are updated weekly, but the website says it was last updated 8 days ago, going on 9 now. http://puu.sh/mRzul/23e4112897.png

I figured the update would be automated, is it not or did something go wrong with it? Any idea when the next update will be?

Something went wrong, it's updating right now.

Awesome, I'm amazed at how quickly you replied! Spent the last few days playing a ton of old maps and some FL so I can't wait to see my Precision and Memory after the update, Thanks!

Oh, I didn't know peppy planned to change how spinners work... Is it in the forums? Or... Where is it? xD I tried to find but I couldn't...
Yeah, I really think reading skill is much more important than everything else for now xD it was said it was very complicated, so... I wish you all good luck o/
I also think spin skill is not useless because it's fun xD but if it's not possible, can't do anything about that... But once I know what kind of changes are gonna happen to the spinners, I might have some ideas... But maybe not xD
Anyway, every suggestion is important for you, I think, so... I hope to be helping somehow xD

Berserk is already my favourite title. It's perfect for me XD

I cant wait for a thing that says what the titles are for.


Love the site btw looks nice, works great, thanks for the hard work put in on it! Can't wait to see what you guys have in store for it in the future.

ShaftamusPrime wrote:

I cant wait for a thing that says what the titles are for.

I switched from versatile to berserk.

Adventurous

Not like i dont know why i got this one >_>

Well... About the titles, I've been making some graphs lately from my skills. I made 3 graphs in pentagon style (which was suggested here), and I noticed something it seems nobody else here did.

The first graph is about the skills the way they are shown in the site, for each player, it's also displayed on the rankings. I named it "Classic Measurement".
http://prntscr.com/9yudjw

The second graph is about the top play from each skill. You can see the highest points by clicking on the skill link from the player. I named it "Top Measurement".
http://prntscr.com/9yufbf

The third graph is about the ranking each of your skills were. You can find it if you look on the right page of the global ranking pages (it's in descending order, so it's easy to find). I named it "Rank Measurement".
http://prntscr.com/9yuhru

I noticed a huge difference from the 1st/2nd ones to the 3rd one. And by doing this, I found out that I really excel in accuracy, in relation to other players, and not in agility/tenacity, as the 1st and 2nd graphs suggest. Kert himself said we should compare our skills to other players to know if it's good or not, so I think the titles shouldn't be about the Classic Measurement, but the Rank Measurement. People would get more appropriate titles this way, like... I received Adventurous, which means best in tenacity+agility, but I should have received perceptive, which means best in accuracy (according to Defacer). I've been using the "Rank measurement" most when someone asks me to make them a graph, because I think it's more precise on the players skills.

Oh, and there would also have a bigger diversity on the titles, since now there are very rare and common titles, because agility is like almost always one of the highest skills.

What do you guys think?

Just made another graph...
http://prntscr.com/9yuues

This imaginary player would be a totally average player, I took the same rank for every skill. This would be probably considered Berserker or Adventurous, and not (Versatile maybe?) the one which means balanced, which is what this player actually is.

Agility is a bit weird in the upper numbers, I agree with this.
But I personally really don't like this kind of pentagon graphs, I think they are a lot less representative than bars.

I'm not sure if the suggestion has been made yet or not but instead of grouping streaming as one large skill group maybe do stream acc and stream speed or something siimilar because of spaced streams and normal streams being very different skills (imo). Don't take my word for it cause i'm a pretty low rank, just something i thought would be nice, also great job so far hope to see this last a long time as it's very useful

Kert wrote:

Agility is a bit weird in the upper numbers, I agree with this.
But I personally really don't like this kind of pentagon graphs, I think they are a lot less representative than bars.

Hm... Pentagon graphs are cooler, but they are not simple to program, I guess... It's not just put the lowest skill as the minimum, you may have noticed, I put the minimum number in the pentagon way lower than my lowest skill. Also, now that you said, I agree with you that bars are more representative, so... they probably should stay there, at least for some time. Only after everything else is made it should be thought again which one is better, even though bars are more likely to stay.

So... are we gonna see changes in the titles according to the rankings in the future? What do you think?

PizzaWings wrote:

I'm not sure if the suggestion has been made yet or not but instead of grouping streaming as one large skill group maybe do stream acc and stream speed or something siimilar because of spaced streams and normal streams being very different skills (imo). Don't take my word for it cause i'm a pretty low rank, just something i thought would be nice, also great job so far hope to see this last a long time as it's very useful

Hm... I think that's a nice idea, but if they put it to work, then they gotta think about other skills too, which means from 5 skills we have now, we would get like 10 skills later?

stream speed, stream accuracy, jump accuracy, jump speed, jump distance, precision in jumps, precision in streams, etc.

So... Even if that's a good idea, I think that wouldn't actually work...

snyviper wrote:

PizzaWings wrote:

I'm not sure if the suggestion has been made yet or not but instead of grouping streaming as one large skill group maybe do stream acc and stream speed or something siimilar because of spaced streams and normal streams being very different skills (imo). Don't take my word for it cause i'm a pretty low rank, just something i thought would be nice, also great job so far hope to see this last a long time as it's very useful

Hm... I think that's a nice idea, but if they put it to work, then they gotta think about other skills too, which means from 5 skills we have now, we would get like 10 skills later?

stream speed, stream accuracy, jump accuracy, jump speed, jump distance, precision in jumps, precision in streams, etc.

So... Even if that's a good idea, I think that wouldn't actually work...

Why not include a skill for how good a player can do clockwise vs counter-clockwise star patterns as well?

abraker wrote:

Why not include a skill for how good a player can do clockwise vs counter-clockwise star patterns as well?

That's brilliant!

What does the "Berserk" under my Name mean?

NaTha wrote:

What does the "Berserk" under my Name mean?

It's a title, search a few pages back and you'll understand, it's still not official but Defacer has taken some of his time to try to find out what titles are there and what they mean, he found a meaning for berserk too, so.. if you find his post, you'll know. (repeating, what Defacer found is not official, but his guess).

Agility just scales too hard, everyone is good at jump aim according to osuskills plz fix ;w;

Momiji wrote:

Agility just scales too hard, everyone is good at jump aim according to osuskills plz fix ;w;

well the maps are also at fault. but I agree, my agility stat is a little bit too high.

Momiji wrote:

Agility just scales too hard, everyone is good at jump aim according to osuskills plz fix ;w;

Well... Not just agility. Look at this graph I made (and also posted here) http://prntscr.com/9yuues
This would be a totally average player, all skills are from the same rank. Agility and tenacity scales too much. Precision and accuracy scales too little. Not sure about stamina, maybe it's ok, maybe it's scaling too much...

timemon wrote:

Momiji wrote:

Agility just scales too hard, everyone is good at jump aim according to osuskills plz fix ;w;

well the maps are also at fault. but I agree, my agility stat is a little bit too high.

What if everone's good at agility because they train it thus it's exactly where it ought to be

Khelly wrote:

What if everone's good at agility because they train it thus it's exactly where it ought to be

Sounds like a conspiracy
I still think this should work on the human limits, not living being limits xD like best human agility=1000, best human tenacity=1000, worst human agility=0, etc... and not necessarily the most agile human ever lives nowadays and plays osu, so... At least something similar should be ok xD

And if the scale is logarithmic where every 100 increase is way harder than the last 100?

Is agility also based only on the speed the cursor has to move at? ok dad ezhddt same agility as ok dad hddthr, cool. It's not even "aim" at all.

Distance between objects is slightly bigger with HR and slightly smaller with EZ than nomod. This affects the speed you are talking about too

That's cool! So... versatile and ambitious are basically the same thing?

Different average

snyviper wrote:

Momiji wrote:

Agility just scales too hard, everyone is good at jump aim according to osuskills plz fix ;w;

Well... Not just agility. Look at this graph I made (and also posted here) http://prntscr.com/9yuues
This would be a totally average player, all skills are from the same rank. Agility and tenacity scales too much. Precision and accuracy scales too little. Not sure about stamina, maybe it's ok, maybe it's scaling too much...

I think everything scales just fine. My acc is extremely bad(almost any player rank 20k or better will have the same or better acc than me)compared to the rest(not counting in Precision since >CS6 doesn't really weight into my pp or top100) http://imgur.com/LeNBBKM

On a different note I'd really really really like to see a skill for Spinner. They're part of the game but everybody seems to forget them.

Kert wrote:

Distance between objects is slightly bigger with HR and slightly smaller with EZ than nomod. This affects the speed you are talking about too

This doesn't even seem to be accounted for (yet?), and I think that the center of objects is what matters more because it's approximately what players are aiming for.

I don't know what you're trying to say then anymore

Is tapping stamina also stream stamina?

Momiji wrote:

Kert wrote:

Distance between objects is slightly bigger with HR and slightly smaller with EZ than nomod. This affects the speed you are talking about too

This doesn't even seem to be accounted for (yet?), and I think that the center of objects is what matters more because it's approximately what players are aiming for.

Kert, it affects speed very insignificantly. Smaller CS affects the distance by some 40 osu!px or so (need to run calculations). As for what I think he is trying to say is that the formula is factoring speed vs precision wrong. Agility is dependent on precision in regard that players loose pression the faster the jump is and pattern requires more precision the further the note is. Then the resultant precision from the 2 factors mentioned tell how likely the player is able to aim a certain note given CS.

Khelly wrote:

Is tapping stamina also stream stamina?

currently yes. Tapping stamina is affected by how fast you need to tap. Since you neee to tap fast for streams, streams affect tapping stamina

So here's a question I have because I didn't really participate in any discussion ever: Is the tapping (or tenacity, whatever) stat affected in long stream maps by how difficult those maps are agility wise? A few days ago I was playing four dimensions and I just wanted to verify if my failing stamina at the end was affected by aim which I guessed it was.

I played warpledge onslaught immediately after and got my x1000 combo. That map has little stream aim. Then I played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/267052 and didn't break on any of the longer streams even though it's the same bpm as Four dimensions. Then I immediately played Four dimensions autopilot and again, didn't break on the streams that I was losing stamina on when playing it properly. If anything, my stamina should be worse on each successive map since I didn't rest.

That was my unscientific experiment.

I talked about this with B1rd, which made realize an unforseen side effect from seperating the skills.

abraker wrote:

Separating the skills completely independent of each other may cause some other factors to occur. Players seem to be able to aim with the Relax mod and tap with auto pilot much better than nomod. The player focuses less on a general task the more independent tasks there are. I will have to look into how multitasking affects performance and see what the distribution of focus is between tapping and targeting given the map's requirements and player skill. That then should be weighted in to the skills to counterbalance the issue you are mentioning.

That's also why accurate lowbpm-streaming is terribly underrated. Even Granat has a higher streamrating than some 130bpm deathstream maps.

To be honest, under about 140 bpm, you can just singletap streams (Maybe if you're faster than me you can do 140 streams singletap well but I'm meh). 150-160 bpm streams is where I can't reliably singletap them at all and they're too slow to stream.

nyanyanyan nomod doesn't give any reasonable streaming score either.
From my point of view it is relatively random how much score a map gives unless it is clearly fast and streamheavy.
Just the fact alone that a map like Granat with exactly one quint as a non-FC-score with mediocre gives more points than a 99,x FC on a 4min 170bpm song with some actual streams is just stupid.