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Disable User Rating for Qualified beatmaps

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33
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +63
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
Because all "qualified" maps hided from ranked beatmap list only small amout of people can notice them & play, so we got a problem here - most of "qualified" maps have extremely bad user rating:

SPOILER

Since "qualified" maps are only nominated for ranking and they have subjects what can be changed i think it will be fair to disable user rating on them untill they got ranked - this would be more fair and will reduse trolling with 1 star vote at this beatmap section.

Discuss.
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn
Agreed really. These maps are pretty much going through the final approval before they're released knowingly to everyone.

With how the current rating system works, all it takes is that one troll/hate voter to reduce the star rating down below 9. With the current system, that is seen as a 'bad map' when in reality they aren't. Most of the maps I played are actually really good.

I guess it will eventually balance itself out after ranking, but it'd be nice if the maps got fresh opinions from all players at once. Maps won't look appealing when they appear on osu!direct in yellow or even blue because of one or two trolls. Not enough people play qualified maps to get a balanced score over a week.

To be honest, I probably won't vote on a map until its ranked.. The only problem is I can't help it sometimes when I see a good map with 1 star or 5.5 star rating. Disabling this would be the smartest choice.
Kuchibiiru
Kuchibiiru
It would be hard to tell if the rating is actually a 'Troll' but I mean people usually give their honest opinions about the map in the disqus. I still think that it should be disabled though.
sheela
2,651 posts
Joined October 2011
sheela
Same here.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
The rating system isn't really that useful for determining a map's quality nowadays. Most people either give it 10/10 or 1/10. Honestly if we wait until the ranked map goes live the ratings will fix themselves to how they will usually be in minutes.
Liiraye
1,354 posts
Joined December 2011
Liiraye

Lust wrote:

The rating system isn't really that useful for determining a map's quality nowadays. Most people either give it 10/10 or 1/10. Honestly if we wait until the ranked map goes live the ratings will fix themselves to how they will usually be in minutes.
That is besides the point. One concern is that if there's an error in the map, people can and will rate it. When it's fixed and re-ranked it will perhaps appear with a crappy rating, making some people ignore downloading it. I used to look a lot at ratings of new map before dling so it wouldn't surprise me of more people do.
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
yes plz make no sense to have ratings in Qualified
Atrue
osu! Alumni
1,017 posts
Joined July 2012
Atrue
I think a rating system is useful in Qualified Beatmaps. But maybe the rating is not so suitable for being inherited to the ranked version, because the rating in Qualified list is for evaluating adjustments and the Beatmaps can be adjusted more easily than the ranked Beatmaps.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Atrue wrote:

I think a rating system is useful in Qualified Beatmaps. But maybe the rating is not so suitable for being inherited to the ranked version, because the rating in Qualified list is for evaluating adjustments and the Beatmaps can be adjusted more easily than the ranked Beatmaps.
I guess i got your point, but i disagree here. My opinion is - if people vote for map, then they should vote for final work, not for something what can be changed in any moment. And rating in Qualified section is very disbalanced compare to Ranked beatmaps, just because most of people don't play them.
Atrue
osu! Alumni
1,017 posts
Joined July 2012
Atrue

Kodora wrote:

Atrue wrote:

I think a rating system is useful in Qualified Beatmaps. But maybe the rating is not so suitable for being inherited to the ranked version, because the rating in Qualified list is for evaluating adjustments and the Beatmaps can be adjusted more easily than the ranked Beatmaps.
I guess i got your point, but i disagree here. My opinion is - if people vote for map, then they should vote for final work, not for something what can be changed in any moment.
Yes, sure. But maybe just give people a way which cannot have effect on the ranked edition to show their attitude to the newest edition is also a good idea I think.

Kodora wrote:

And rating in Qualified section is very disbalanced compare to Ranked beatmaps, just because most of people don't play them.
Yes, really. So maybe how to let more people know Qualified section is another question to deal with. :D
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
Supporting this, Qualified isn't Ranked, it shouldn't have ratings applied to it as the maps are often not completely finalized.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
Bump.
Liiraye
1,354 posts
Joined December 2011
Liiraye
bump this
Asphyxia
Beatmap Nominator
2,001 posts
Joined June 2012
Asphyxia

Liiraye wrote:

bump this
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn
Another suggestion.. maybe wipe the rating if it gets removed from qualification? It would somewhat solve Liiraye's reason.

We could also wipe the rating when it gets moved to ranked. Just dropping ideas.

I still 100% support that rating should be disabled until it is moved to ranked.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

Liiraye wrote:

When it's fixed and re-ranked it will perhaps appear with a crappy rating, making some people ignore downloading it. I used to look a lot at ratings of new map before dling so it wouldn't surprise me of more people do.
Wow this reply is hella late I aplogogize. But if a map is in qualified and unranked to fix an error, it has to go through the ranking process again, this erasing the previous ratings/scores when it is reranked.
Rakuen
1,654 posts
Joined March 2013
Rakuen

Charles445 wrote:

Supporting this, Qualified isn't Ranked, it shouldn't have ratings applied to it as the maps are often not completely finalized.
Yep, agree

Qualified maps are like BETA version for games

It's likely a testplaying section so your map could get known faster and players may point out mistakes or anything that needs to be fixed
jonathanlfj
Elite Mapper
2,568 posts
Joined February 2010
jonathanlfj

Lust wrote:

Liiraye wrote:

When it's fixed and re-ranked it will perhaps appear with a crappy rating, making some people ignore downloading it. I used to look a lot at ratings of new map before dling so it wouldn't surprise me of more people do.
Wow this reply is hella late I aplogogize. But if a map is in qualified and unranked to fix an error, it has to go through the ranking process again, this erasing the previous ratings/scores when it is reranked.
Actually as far as I know reranking a map with score wipe will only wipe the scores, but previous ratings are kept. Would be a good idea to have the score wipe function wipe ratings as well (which would be an administrative thing that peppy should consider)

I actually do not agree with removing ratings completely from qualified section though, as long as a qualified map is not unranked during the 7 day period it should be treated the same way as a ranked map. (and when it does get unranked my previous suggestion will come in effect to remove previous ratings)
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

jonathanlfj wrote:

as long as a qualified map is not unranked during the 7 day period it should be treated the same way as a ranked map
It can't be treated in the same way simple because most of people interested at playing already ranked maps rather than qualified, so we have smaller amount of people who will judge map.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Kodora wrote:

It can't be treated in the same way simple because most of people interested at playing already ranked maps rather than qualified, so we have smaller amount of people who will judge map.
So you can provide proofs and/or statistics that qualified Maps getting less played during the week? iirc qualified Maps cannot be seen under osu!direct. And jonathan's quote is pretty right, there should be no exception expect scores getting wiped but how as I read this isn't possible since Rating stays there even after Unrank/Rerank. However I support the idea wiping the Rating until it's officially ranked. Disabling it would take off people's option to judge a Map.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Stefan wrote:

So you can provide proofs and/or statistics that qualified Maps getting less played during the week?
Yes. Just look how many plays they reach during the week. And how many people vote for them.

Stefan wrote:

there should be no exception expect scores getting wiped but how as I read this isn't possible since Rating stays there even after Unrank/Rerank. However I support the idea wiping the Rating until it's officially ranked. Disabling it would take off people's option to judge a Map.

Lanturn wrote:

These maps are pretty much going through the final approval before they're released knowingly to everyone.

With how the current rating system works, all it takes is that one troll/hate voter to reduce the star rating down below 9. With the current system, that is seen as a 'bad map' when in reality they aren't. Most of the maps I played are actually really good.
^ this

Qualified =/= Ranked. People should judge only completed & ready for everyone's playing map, not subject to change in testing area.
DeletedUser_3044645
DeletedUser_3044645
I support this!! Nice job Kodora



please..

Also I'm getting this one guy who keeps talking shit about my map with multi-accs that were created less then an hour ago.

I don't know if it's this guy spamming 1's on my map but someone really hates my map.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
If qualified =/= ranked, then it shouldn't record player scores also
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

buny wrote:

If qualified =/= ranked, then it shouldn't record player scores also
Qualified category here was implimented to make more people interested at testing newest maps before they will be added in official list of ranked maps, and ability to achieve good score on such map should be good motivation for testing. If you afraid of wiped scores then you should wait untill map get ranked.

This request is only about disabling user rating for Qualified maps.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
You have to understand that testing the map also comes with rating the map
What's the point of testing the map if you can't express your opinion with a simple vote? And most players are only playing qualified map to get an early lead on the score boards, anyway.
Any map that doesn't deserve its bad rating will have it adjusted to its mean when it goes into the ranked section. Though maps that I've seen in the qualified section that have low rating are generally bad, it won't change anything if you're just delaying when the players can rate a map.

Somebody said that they didn't download maps that had bad ratings.
What is to stop people that played BEFORE that person even saw that map on the list, and it was rated low? The exact same thing, they wouldn't download the map.

Now I'm not saying disabling user ratings is a bad idea, but from a neutral stand point, think about the ones that do play qualified map and rate them legitimately. Do those people deserve to rate the map? They don't really have a reason to play the map again unless for high scoring purposes, and they wouldn't even bother to play it again JUST to rate the map.

A truly good map will never have bad ratings, because they will be outweighed by the good ones. There aren't as many "troll" ratings as you think, because a good map to you doesn't necessarily mean it's a good map to everyone - or maybe even a terrible map to others.


Also side note: I'm pretty sure qualified section is just a reassurance so that the people that get their scores wiped have nobody to blame other than themselves.
DeletedUser_3044645
DeletedUser_3044645

buny wrote:

There aren't as many "troll" ratings as you think
Please tell me you were serious when you wrote this.
You don't need "many trolls" to get pissed off. You only need 1.
Kytoxid
osu! Alumni
1,369 posts
Joined April 2009
Kytoxid
I'm with lfj on this one. The cleanest way to handle this would be to wipe the ratings every time the map re-enters qualified state, because the concern that the map has changed and should be re-judged is valid. However, if the map doesn't change, ratings established during Qualified phase should stay; I don't think anyone is rating maps lower just because they're in Qualified instead of Ranked.

You might get a couple of low votes that are weighted disproportionately when the map is in Qualified and end up seeing them because fewer people are voting in general, but it's only in Qualified for a week; once it's Ranked, if the map isn't terrible, shouldn't the rating rise quickly as well, since the low rating was based on so few votes?

As well, I don't see Qualified as a sandbox for testing maps, but rather as a rehash of our existing unrank process. No BATs are qualifying maps just to see what the community thinks about it; it's taken seriously like ranking always was.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

buny wrote:

You have to understand that testing the map also comes with rating the map
What's the point of testing the map if you can't express your opinion with a simple vote? And most players are only playing qualified map to get an early lead on the score boards, anyway.
Point of testing is finding issues before maps will be added to official list. Rating here should be only for maps what are fully completed and ready for playing

Kytoxid wrote:

As well, I don't see Qualified as a sandbox for testing maps, but rather as a rehash of our existing unrank process. No BATs are qualifying maps just to see what the community thinks about it; it's taken seriously like ranking always was.
Not sure about how this will works in the future.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
bump
MBomb
MBomb
With recent changes to the qualified section, I think this is more important now, qualified maps tend to get bad ratings in general, I've noticed.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Yes people really like to spam stupid commentaries and bad votes under new maps, it is terribly annoying.
I'd love it if comments got blocked/deleted on top of that during/after Qualified period as any serious kind of comment should belong into the map thread as it could contribute to a DQ and further improvement of the map. We might also have a chance to get rid of the terrible memes that way.
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Yes I agree
I really felt bad when I got my first qualified map, because out of the 30 ratings, 25 were 1
It changed in the mean time, but it was a really bad feeling
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Basically this can occur when your map becomes ranked as well. I am not sure how this change makes this problem lesser, unless it's a special case, like a difficulty played awfully and peopled downvoted the map by this -> gets either removed or much better after the DQ and still having the negative votes at all.

The Rating has no effect unlike the removal of pp for Qualified maps.
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