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[invalid] OD11+, AR11+, etc

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19
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +1
mastaa_p
29 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
mastaa_p
This one is simple, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RANKED MAPS.

In a beatmap's .osu file, we can tweak CS all the way up to 10, even though you can't rank a map with CS>7 (at least in 2015). We know that AR11 and OD11 exist because of DTHR, so why can't we tweak these values in the .osu file so that nomod maps could be AR11 or OD11 (or 12, or whatever)? This would be purely for unranked maps, people complain enough about OD>8, but I think it would make a lot of unique unranked maps possible.

TL;DR: I want this to actually correspond to the values in game, right now if you load this everything will be set to 10:
SPOILER
[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:11
CircleSize:11
OverallDifficulty:11
ApproachRate:11
SliderMultiplier:2
SliderTickRate:1
VeilStar
osu! Alumni
4,773 posts
Joined April 2014
VeilStar
The thing is, CS10 is an actual CS value, while AR11 & OD11(.08) aren't actually existing values.
All song setup values go from 0 to 10, that includes AR and OD.

The only reason you can technically get AR and OD out of the 0-10 range is because they're both based on timing, and HT and DT stretch or shrink the timing of the map, making their percieved value higher than it actually is. The map's actual AR and OD doesn't change what so ever.

This would require AR11 and OD11 to be actually implemented, meaning that with this in place you could actually get AR11.67.

Check out smoogi's 'osu! AR11 Maker' or something instead.
mastaa_p
29 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
mastaa_p

VeilStar wrote:

The thing is, CS10 is an actual CS value, while AR11 & OD11(.08) aren't actually existing values.
All song setup values go from 0 to 10, that includes AR and OD.

The only reason you can technically get AR and OD out of the 0-10 range is because they're both based on timing, and HT and DT stretch or shrink the timing of the map, making their percieved value higher than it actually is. The map's actual AR and OD doesn't change what so ever.

This would require AR11 and OD11 to be actually implemented, meaning that with this in place you could actually get AR11.67.

Check out smoogi's 'osu! AR11 Maker' or something instead.
Sorry, I was aware, I guess I just didn't express what I meant very clearly. I meant that since OD11 and AR11 are accepted as being achievable (have set ms windows defined already), they would be simple implementations. As would adding levels to the other stats, but w/e.
Bauxe
1,624 posts
Joined August 2012
Bauxe
No, OD11 and AR11 don't exist. When you enable Doubletime, the song is literally sped up 1.5x

As a result the approach rate and timing window are 33% smaller (taking the approach rate from 450ms down to 300ms). They aren't existing values.
Bara-
11,976 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
OD 11 doesn't exist as DT makes weird changes in OD
OD7+DT =/=OD 9.8
Thus OD10+DT=/=OD11
As for AR11, TERRIBLE IDEA
0.00001% of the players can read it at max
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
For Standard;
The only thing I'd really use for fun (thus, not for ranking maps) would be an OD above 10, since that would at least be somewhat possible.
AR would be unreadable, HP unpassable (HP8 is usually already too high) and CS ... we're currently meta'd at CS4, how would you imagine CS11?
mastaa_p
29 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
mastaa_p
Honestly the only thing I would really want is OD11+ (although making it possible to practice AR11 would be nice). These features wouldn't shouldn't take more than a few minutes to implement unless the codebase is still a mess from 2006 or so.

Seriously, OD10 isn't that harsh considering this is supposed to be a rhythm and timing game.

EDIT: I don't expect that even if these settings existed that they would be rankable. I'm just thinking about the potential for unranked challenge maps.
Bauxe
1,624 posts
Joined August 2012
Bauxe
Use smoogi's BPM changer, make the song 2/3 slower, then just put on DT.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
They might not take long to implement, but we dont need them either. We're totally fine with what we have and we didnt reach the point where we "need" stuff11 yet. There hasnt/havent been any/many ranked map/s that needed this/these features.I'd rather have ppy improve code on various other points.

I mean, you can also have ketchup-smileyface on your burger at McDonalds - It's no biggie to put that on, but you dont really need that and neither do you care, do you?
DeletedUser_5328727
DeletedUser_5328727
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Last edited by DeletedUser_5328727 , edited 1 time in total.
Bauxe
1,624 posts
Joined August 2012
Bauxe
No, you are incorrect.

AR10 is the highest approach rate that exists. Doubletime doesn't change any of the game's values (same goes for half-time). It modifies the play speed, simulating the value changes. This is why AR10 (450ms) goes to the theoretical AR11 (300ms), because 450/1.5=300. AR9 (600ms) goes to the theoretical AR10.33 (400ms).

edit: also if values are unlimited, AR13 would mean 0ms time, any any values above that would become negative approach rates.
DeletedUser_5328727
DeletedUser_5328727
delete
Last edited by DeletedUser_5328727 , edited 1 time in total.
VeilStar
osu! Alumni
4,773 posts
Joined April 2014
VeilStar

mastaa_p wrote:

Sorry, I was aware, I guess I just didn't express what I meant very clearly. I meant that since OD11 and AR11 are accepted as being achievable (have set ms windows defined already), they would be simple implementations. As would adding levels to the other stats, but w/e.
Well, I understood that. I was just explaining why you can set CS10 in the .osu file and not AR11.

The thing is, I still don't see why anyone would want that. AR11 is something very few people can play properly.

You said this was for unranked maps, which is fine in itself, but in that case aren't you just better off just doing it manually by stretching the song length, setting the AR to 10, and then applying DT?

I really don't see the point in adding this as it can already be done through a different method and doesn't really serve a purpose.
That's all I wanted to say.
otoed1
639 posts
Joined May 2014
otoed1
While most of this seems absurd and pointless, I do see a point because it would enable maps to be mapped in AR 10.3 and there's nothing wrong with having od 11, as another has stated od 10 isn't even that strict compared to other rhythm games. (Not that many of us could play it anyways) However, CS 11 is virtually pointless and HP 11 would probably be literally impossible.
Comet
82 posts
Joined June 2014
Comet

baraatje123 wrote:

As for AR11, TERRIBLE IDEA
0.00001% of the players can read it at max
I thought I'd jump in here to give some kind criticism to this. It's ok, take this how you will, I'm just trying to be a nice guy ^_^

Have you ever thought of WHY 0.00001% of all osu! players can read AR11? It's because they don't fricking read it, they memorize it. The only one that might barely have a shot at getting even close to reading AR11 is Emperorpenguin. Glitter Goose has made some progress too, along with a few stranded plays here and there by others.

I'm pretty interested in the idea, since so many people want it, but due to the lack of people in general that can play AR11 efficiently, that's a no-go, and OD11, like previous posters said, would be rather hard to implement. A Good idea in theory, but it wouldn't really work.
Bara-
11,976 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-

Cometblazer wrote:

baraatje123 wrote:

As for AR11, TERRIBLE IDEA
0.00001% of the players can read it at max
I thought I'd jump in here to give some kind criticism to this. It's ok, take this how you will, I'm just trying to be a nice guy ^_^

Have you ever thought of WHY 0.00001% of all osu! players can read AR11? It's because they don't fricking read it, they memorize it. The only one that might barely have a shot at getting even close to reading AR11 is Emperorpenguin. Glitter Goose has made some progress too, along with a few stranded plays here and there by others.

I'm pretty interested in the idea, since so many people want it, but due to the lack of people in general that can play AR11 efficiently, that's a no-go, and OD11, like previous posters said, would be rather hard to implement. A Good idea in theory, but it wouldn't really work.
Well, 0.00001% of 6.676.780 players, means 0,6676... Players, aka 1
That one penguin

He as AFAIK the only one able to read it
abraker
Global Moderator
8,321 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I think you need to give the community more time to develop more skillful players if you want such high AR values to be ranked, but It might be ok for gimick maps. Average human responce time is 200 - 270ms and considering the extra 20-70ms or whatever it is needed to move your hand or flick your wrist to get to the note, we are cutting it EXTREMELY close with AR11. The only maps where it would be justified (imo) is where the notes' positions correlate with the musical melody such that you can predict where they would appear (left side low pitch, right side high pitch, for example).
gregest
809 posts
Joined February 2014
gregest

baraatje123 wrote:

Well, 0.00001% of 6.676.780 players, means 0,6676... Players, aka 1
That one penguin

He as AFAIK the only one able to read it
GlitterGoose can play it too but there is no person who can sightread ar11
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
I love AR7 CS5, and you? At all VeilStar explained it pretty clear what's the difference and we really don't need to exceed over AR/OD10, I am also sure there are some denied requests similar to this one.
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