Deif wrote:
Good luck with the Academy, Ono-sama :_>
Does a pattern sound / play / look well?Remove the word sound. We all know maps don't play good just because they sound good.
You haven't posted, so wellLove wrote:
Could've swore I posted to be added to the list. But I guess it was removed or something.
Telling someone straight up to remap is extremely demotivating and rude.OnosakiHito wrote:
Weekly hint updated.
I think it's not really mode-related. Every mode requires the knownledge and being as perfect as possible. Also the amount of time is practicually the same.LunaticP wrote:
Remap in taiko is easier than remap in other mode
this. If you already suggest sooooo much in a Difficulty or Mapset, and let us say it's a TV Size Map.. then making huge Mod posts aren't really helpful since they completely change the origin map to something.. different which isn't really the point in mapping. Then it's better to suggest the person to remap the difficulties or Mapset by his own purpose.OnosakiHito wrote:
And in my opinion this helps a lot more than having a 30cm long mod post which no one wants really to read or which is at least really tiring to read, sorry. lol
depends, you can probably be an "awful" player and be an amazing mapper and you can be like rank 50 and be a pretty bad mapper.Endaris wrote:
Taiko mapping is so hard though, I tried it out of curiosity and asked for Raiden's opinion(poor Raiden) on my first steps and was quickly discouraged.
What do you think, how good do you have to get at Taiko as a player before you can judge map quality from a mapper-perspective?
_Gezo_ wrote:
I'll just say this:
Less complaining. More modding.
case closed.
OnosakiHito wrote:
As solution there is not much to say but that people should start mod more by their own and maybe become BNs. Yes, we can try enfaster progress a bit by helping new modders or open diverse threads and guides. But at the end the core solution is clear: People must be more active in modding. And we all know that this isn't one of our strenghts in Taiko. lol
That said, it would be somewhat hypocritical for me to say this (because I was literally like that back then), but they are completely right.MMzz wrote:
Mapping and modding go hand in hand. You have to do both to survive here as a mapper. (For any game mode)
BN are not obligated to mod your map at all. If they say they will mod your map and then don't, yeah that sucks, but it happens. Like I said, BN have no obligation to mod YOUR MAP. They can mod whatever they want. (Just like non-bn can)
Its been this way for 5+ years. Its nothing new. Its nothing we haven't heard before. Start modding to help improve the situation you think is terrible, or shut up.
notes are generally following a recognizable rhythm (such as the lyrics or drums) which is comprehensible by a playerthat basically decides whether a map is good or not.
2015-11-01 19:06 Raiden: I prefer people to learn by themselvesI wish I didn't ask you at all in the first place because you weren't helpful early and offending later with your "FUCK STD-MAPPERS WHO TAKE THEIR TAIKO-DIFFS OUT BECAUSE THEY DONT MAN UP"-attitude. When you come from std to Taiko you have a lot to learn and the gap in mapping skill between the game modes may be very big. Yet all you do is not helping them(because they're not worth your attention) and shitstorming them when they give up upon receiving negative criticism from you that isn't particularly constructive.
2015-11-01 19:06 Raiden: only those are worthy of BN's attention imo
In first place, I have no time to go around teaching every person how to map Taiko. I gave you one of the very basics you should take in account to avoid multiple DQs. You should be rather thankful that I spent so much time (I even testplayed your diffs).Endaris wrote:
And telling me to use higher HP and not the Soft Drumset is certainly good but doesn't help me at all with designing a map which is why I don't see a point in asking people who only tell me that upon asking them for further advice on my map.
Yeah, I'm pointing at you here, Raiden~
When I asked you for feedback you didn't try to teach me anything about Taiko mapping.
I wish I didn't ask you at all in the first place because you weren't helpful early and offending later with your "FUCK STD-MAPPERS WHO TAKE THEIR TAIKO-DIFFS OUT BECAUSE THEY DONT MAN UP"-attitude. When you come from std to Taiko you have a lot to learn and the gap in mapping skill between the game modes may be very big. Yet all you do is not helping them(because they're not worth your attention) and shitstorming them when they give up upon receiving negative criticism from you that isn't particularly constructive.You're just showing how ungrateful you are towards someone who, even having tons of requests and work, still gave you some of his time testplaying and giving some (even if small) advice. Very childish if you ask me.
You're not a good role model for what you're expecting from everyone else. More than that you're discouraging any std mapper to get into Taiko. You're making the Taiko community appear unattractive.
I didn't quite give up on mapping Taiko yet but I'll certainly never ask you again for anything related to Taiko. Rather put a "Never ask Raiden"-pic in my signature to imitate the "Never ask Irreversible"-meme.I'm glad, I rather not help someone with such attitude and our community certainly doesn't want a person like that.
You reap what you sow.Same to you, my friend.
Start modding to help improve the situation you think is terrible, or shut up.Want to have feedback? Then learn how to give it. Period.
It took me 4 years to actually understand the deap meaning of this sentence. And even though I would explain it, new modders would need to experience it by themself before understanding it fully.lepidopodus wrote:
I don't like minor pattern fixes unless it sounds really weird. If you are finding a Taiko modder and you think you can make well-structured Taiko map, go back and find something else.
I can say that currently with the activity of the people, we have a better one.From what I have seen, all we got is a quantitative rise of modders which came along with the significant decrease of modding quality (which was the whole point in my post but I guess no one got it?). This is (I believe) caused by TNA not taking into consideration mod quality and thus encouraging half assed lazy mods: these half assed modders don't see the need to improve their quality since they are going to get in the queue anyways. This also discourages good modderss because "I'm going to get the same reward as a half assed modder, so I'll just half ass mod too".
Even old modder/mapper didn't start any different, until someone told them how they could improve their modding or until they started to have discussions about certain topics where they exchange information, opinions and ideas with other modders and mappers.I don't remember anyone giving me classes on how to mod or map. I learned it by myself by looking at more experienced people's maps and mods, no matter how arrogant this might sound. No one was there to give me detailed explanations on how to map/mod. So yeah, if I (pretty average to dumb guy) can do it, basically everyone can do it.
My point is, learning just by modding something isn't enough. It is important to exchange knowledge.I have to disagree here and use myself as an example (I explained in the point above). Maybe it was like that back then, when there were just too few pro people to learn from. But not the case right now.
That's fine, but that's why you still have a very long way to go. It's not like you are the only one who managed that at the beginning. But sooner or later you will need a second opinion or people who are around you to refine yourself in modding, else the chance is high that you will stuck in your own world, with for example, not very well founded arguments against something. As I explained here already, it's not just about modding. Doesn't matter about what time we talk. And people like neonat actually explained it already well enough with the given example.Even old modder/mapper didn't start any different, until someone told them how they could improve their modding or until they started to have discussions about certain topics where they exchange information, opinions and ideas with other modders and mappers.I don't remember anyone giving me classes on how to mod or map. I learned it by myself by looking at more experienced people's maps and mods, no matter how arrogant this might sound. No one was there to give me detailed explanations on how to map/mod. So yeah, if I (pretty average to dumb guy) can do it, basically everyone can do it.
tna stuffthat was not supposed to be the epicenter of this topic XD so I'll just keep quiet about it
Raiden and tasuke might not feel like that at the moment as they are still very fresh BNs.I can assure you I got tons of daily requests from day 1. What has kept me away of burnout? I can say NO and not feel bad about it. The same way mappers are free to request something from me, I am free to reject those requests. I am not forced to do anything. I will do what I want to do. Maybe I expect too much from fellow BNs? Maybe I'm a psycho with no feelings and should be arrested? Remember that this is not a job, no matter how you look at it.
But for people who are longer in that modding scene, especially for people like me who are since 3 years modding and ranking, a team can be really essential. It can make it easier for us and could prevent us in falling in some kind of eternal slumber because we can't compensate it anymore. It wouldn't have wonder me to see only Raiden and tasuke(and maybe the incredible ozzy? lol) do mainly the BN work because others couldn't anymore. And that could lead very quick to make the new BNs burnout as well. But well, how is it said? You notice stuff when it's too late or so. That's something else I wanted to prevent.That heavily depends on the person rather than on the time that person has spent in the modding scene. As you already said, everyone handles stuff differently, and as I already said, I don't see myself ending in a burnout, just because I have the skill of saying "no".
Now to come to what Raiden said. Some things has been already explained above, but I think I still have to add some things, starting with the "half-assed" mods. As I said many times before, times were much worse than now. But of course, there should be still some kind of good modding going on. Though, as I said before in #taiko, there are a lot more new modders than experienced modders in Taiko. Especially now it might happen that more of these modders show up, since they have the chance to get a map ranked in a queue. So I rather think it's the pure mass of people who makes it look like that most of them don't want to learn, instead of them doing it on purpose. The reward would be the rank of a map, but many people fail on that, which, I think, can reflect how new a modder is and how high the quality of a mod could be. But that's just something I made up right now.The big problem here is, and I already said it 574216941847239471489 times (approximately) is the LACK OF REWARD OF GOOD MODDERS. Maybe it's perfectly readable now? Haha. Maybe we're going in circles in here Ono.
That's fine, but that's why you still have a very long way to go. It's not like you are the only one who managed that at the beginning. But sooner or later you will need a second opinion or people who are around you to refine yourself in modding, else the chance is high that you will stuck in your own world, with for example, not very well founded arguments against something. As I explained here already, it's not just about modding. Doesn't matter about what time we talk. And people like neonat actually explained it already well enough with the given example.Of course. I may have a long way to go, but I believe they will just be mild refinements. I already settled my modding format and style. And again, the purpose of the "I learned by myself" post was not to look arrogant
Dunno, I think you don't see the bigger picture here. It is easy to say that something should be changed, but the peformence? Really hard. My post probably sounds very negative towards you, but I'm just telling you a little part of what I learned with the old guys in the last years. The product of it is currently the TNA. Changing modders behaviour? Very hard. Probably even impossible. And I just have to point my finger to the other game modes as example, and you can see what the output might be. osu has become so big because they started all on a low level, but produced because of that a lot of maps which attracted more people. Taiko was once on a similar way (so I believe), but it's demographic change has been stopped due to some events which happened, so we had to start a lot of times from zero. That's another reason why the TNA happened and which is why we (or I?) want to generate more modding and activity. We have to get first new modders and then we can start rising somehow the quality (though, even here I say it's a task everyone of us has, to 'teach' people ( hi)).So TNA is just an evil plan to get more quantity and then close it and expect people to suddenly rise quality even after being used to do half assed mods? el oh el
P.s2: I doubt there is any need to response to my post any further as I will probably just say the same things over and over again. Just look what other people say and maybe make your own thoughts of how this problem can be solved. I will read this dicussion with a lot of interest and wait for a possible idea from your side. Maybe Taiko needs some fresh air from fresh people, too?You won't get rid of me that easily : DD
The TNA tries to assure getting maps qualified with a good quality. And the QATs are the last step for that check. These maps can work as example for new modders how proper maps can be made. I think by now, you see the process I was aiming for. And for a direct rise of "modding quality" we can use my (or rather Deifs) idea about the use of the TMA. As you can see, I planed all these things years ago. It's just that we lack people and have too many mappers. Nofool said it some posts before as well. That's why I don't wanna rush with that. It requieres a lot of time and people who really wanna do it.Raiden wrote:
So TNA is just an evil plan to get more quantity and then close it and expect people to suddenly rise quality even after being used to do half assed mods? el oh el
ono textWell I guess this is just us running in circles again haha
The TNA tries to assure getting maps qualified with a good quality. And the QATs are the last step for that check. These maps can work as example for new modders how proper maps can be made. I think by now, you see the process I was aiming for.Hmm. I don't presume you're meaning that it was not like that before TNA?
And for a direct rise of "modding quality" we can use my (or rather Deifs) idea about the use of the TMA. As you can see, I planed all these things years ago. It's just that we lack people and have too many mappers.But yeah, I'm willing to try to lend a hand in whatever I can for that cause. I guess discussing any further won't bring us any real profit haha