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Official osu! Tournament ideas.
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You obviously don't understand how the star rating is derived.gopice wrote:
This is because the the star rating overestimates the influence by the overall difficulty setting and doesn't take
spacing into account.
It's better to have set rules than make a million exceptional cases.gopice wrote:
Like I said earlier couldn't you just ask players to send chosen mapsets beforehand and ban certain difficulties?
Actually I do. Have you reflected the algorithm and checked for yourself? I guess not.strager wrote:
You obviously don't understand how the star rating is derived.
There is no taking account of spacing in anywhere in the algorithm.
I agree to this, except for the fact that a star difficulty limitation isn't a good rule to rely on, as the star difficulty is a too inaccurate representation of the real difficulty.strager wrote:
It's better to have set rules than make a million exceptional cases.
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This strategy can be enforced either way as there there are also a lot of maps with no real hard difficulties (which still have a high star rating).
That being said, most of the ranked maps with ridiculous difficulties also have a a lesser more playable difficulty with still a relatively high star rating. examples: I Want You [tough], chocobo[black] and 1985[Rolled]
Your case should not pose a real problem.
On the other hand people who want to play an easier difficulty on both games could choose a map like this:
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/21895 I have no choice to choose the hard difficulty which is just as easy as the contemporary normal difficulties.
then if I want to play any insane map like http://osu.ppy.sh/b/4564.
they could choose the normal difficulty instead. In both cases the difficulties have a minimum of 4 stars.
Which is why I'm against the star limit as it's just too unreliable.
That being said, most of the ranked maps with ridiculous difficulties also have a a lesser more playable difficulty with still a relatively high star rating. examples: I Want You [tough], chocobo[black] and 1985[Rolled]
Your case should not pose a real problem.
On the other hand people who want to play an easier difficulty on both games could choose a map like this:
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/21895 I have no choice to choose the hard difficulty which is just as easy as the contemporary normal difficulties.
then if I want to play any insane map like http://osu.ppy.sh/b/4564.
they could choose the normal difficulty instead. In both cases the difficulties have a minimum of 4 stars.
Which is why I'm against the star limit as it's just too unreliable.
Topic Starter
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Similar to the tag tourney? I have no objections.Cyclone wrote:
How about we (the judges) post which songs are allowed each round, listing any limitations to them, such as which difficulties are allowed. We'll be sure to pick plenty based on how many participants there are per round (I'd say like 50 songs for a round of 64 players)
Completely agreed.Cyclone wrote:
After talking to Gabi, we've come up with this:
How about we (the judges) post which songs are allowed each round, listing any limitations to them, such as which difficulties are allowed. We'll be sure to pick plenty based on how many participants there are per round (I'd say like 50 songs for a round of 64 players)
With this, the "opponent picks difficulty" rule is abolished, and everything is fair game on the list.
Discuss.
@Cyclone: Seems good.
Topic Starter
OP updated.
Any more issues with anything?
Any more issues with anything?
If you and Gabi will be selecting the songs that are eligible, is the part in bold really necessary? I trust that you won't be choosing songs completely at random, but rather (eg) choose a random song and then decide whether it's appropriate for the tourney. During the song selection process you could specify which difficulties are allowed, and which aren't. The problem with some songs' highest difficulties have been highlighted earlier in the thread. (Some people practicing a difficulty 1000x for a high score, while others don't etc) Most of these songs have an appropriate Hard or "playable" insane difficulty as well.Cyclone wrote:
Song Selection:
- High seed gets first song choice, low seed selects the 2nd song.
- In the result of a tie, the judge will select the 3rd song. Choice will always be highest difficulty available on the song.
- Songs must be selected from a list generated by the Judges.
Restricting a choice to the highest difficulty is akin to using the previous star rating method...Neither will work nicely in all cases. A subjective valuation is definitely needed and it shouldn't be too much trouble to specify eligible difficulties for each song.
Topic Starter
We'll still be picking from the pre-selected list of songs. The list also includes any difficulties we aren't allowing. I fail to see the issue there.
Right, I read that as the choice for all song choices, not just the tie breaker choice. 
Will difficulties such as kanbu's insane be excluded from the tournament then? If not, then you might want to consider allowing players to play an easier difficulty if both agree.
Will difficulties such as kanbu's insane be excluded from the tournament then? If not, then you might want to consider allowing players to play an easier difficulty if both agree.
You mean Kanbu's hard? ;PLucidity wrote:
Will difficulties such as kanbu's insane be excluded from the tournament then? If not, then you might want to consider allowing players to play an easier difficulty if both agree.
but kanbu is only hard and not insane :<
something like that yeh, it is under control of what maps will be picked atleast thats safe to say :>
something like that yeh, it is under control of what maps will be picked atleast thats safe to say :>
Topic Starter
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This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
i doubt that it will be a problem in this tournament. in the tag tournament we needed 4 people compared to this tournament which is only 2. timezones will be much easier to handle now aswell.Hanyuu wrote:
Also you need to create a rule about match finding. in the tag tournament it was a problem not only for the players but also a problem for gabi to organize matches. that was the greates problem for everyone. make a strict rule or this will take months again
but ofcourse there will be a rule for how long a match can go on, so don't worry about it.
Aaand I have my new computer .3.Derekku Chan wrote:
Maybe this will give me motivation to get a new computer finally... I really don't trust my laptop enough for multi... (I hardly trust it in solo orz)
I hate to semi-necro this, but is there any news regarding a future tournament? Summer would probably be the best time for one, but there's only a couple of months left until fall... :X
Topic Starter
Somebody say something to Echo. If he cannot finish what he had planned, then I'll work something else out.
Yes but how do you get a hold of Echo? i've tried contacting him countless times but he is never there when i try to speak to him on IRC.
Hmm,if ideas are still being accepted I got something:
When the tournament date is set and all that,how about some experienced mapper/mappers take the time to create a map specifically for like the semi finals and the final match,the map won't be submitted until the tourney reaches it's end. My reasoning for this is that if maps are created just for the finals,and revealed not long before that,then the match will be based purely on skill,instead of maybe "Yeeah,I played this map 1534621 times,I got this!" while the other guy has played it like twice. Both players will have to sightread it,and the one who has the overall better skill should come out as the winner. I know it might be a silly idea but w/e xD
When the tournament date is set and all that,how about some experienced mapper/mappers take the time to create a map specifically for like the semi finals and the final match,the map won't be submitted until the tourney reaches it's end. My reasoning for this is that if maps are created just for the finals,and revealed not long before that,then the match will be based purely on skill,instead of maybe "Yeeah,I played this map 1534621 times,I got this!" while the other guy has played it like twice. Both players will have to sightread it,and the one who has the overall better skill should come out as the winner. I know it might be a silly idea but w/e xD
Yeah, this would be done already if we had a tournament ^^
Lunah_old
ohh *.* i like this <33LoweH wrote:
what do you think about a "WORLD CUP"
4v4, country vs country .. this is so awesome ~ like a south africa world cup :3
for example, organizer choose a captain for country, and he choose 3 players for make national team
LoweH wrote:
what do you think about a "WORLD CUP"
4v4, country vs country .. this is so awesome ~ like a south africa world cup :3
for example, organizer choose a captain for country, and he choose 3 players for make national team
It's cool idea, but not fair for less-skilled players, which wouldn't be able to play in this tournament. No limits of teams from a single country should solve this problem.
Team Poland: kuburaczek, ShaggoN, White Wolf, any 4th person.
tournament over
tournament over
Brazil were the favourites for the World Cup, and look what happened to them. Could happen to these lot.Lybydose wrote:
Team Poland: kuburaczek, ShaggoN, White Wolf, any 4th person.
tournament over
That said, it seems like a nice idea, but it would definately be dominated by the countries with a bigger user base (China/Poland/Japan etc).
I'd still prefer a 1 v 1 tournament
I'd say 3 vs 3 + 1 judge~LoweH wrote:
4v4, country vs country .. this is so awesome ~ like a south africa world cup :3
But I like this idea :3
Ladder? /o\
Shohei Ohtani
How about a general scoreboard/elimination method? List the players by their amount of score or whatever and then set a cap where players have to reach the amount needed to make it to the next round.
My idea is more hardcore.Feno wrote:
Hmm,if ideas are still being accepted I got something:
When the tournament date is set and all that,how about some experienced mapper/mappers take the time to create a map specifically for like the semi finals and the final match,the map won't be submitted until the tourney reaches it's end. My reasoning for this is that if maps are created just for the finals,and revealed not long before that,then the match will be based purely on skill,instead of maybe "Yeeah,I played this map 1534621 times,I got this!" while the other guy has played it like twice. Both players will have to sightread it,and the one who has the overall better skill should come out as the winner. I know it might be a silly idea but w/e xD
Make every map new for QF/SF/Finals. Balances out the tournament, and I won't get to scream "THIS GUY GRINDED THIS MAP NOT FAIR!" if I ever lose or something.
I'm just more concerned about the timezone differences. What if you had to play against someone on the other side of the world?
For timezone differences, players will just need to try and find a time that works for both of them.
However, I think that Gabi previously judged each side of a match separately for players that couldn't make a time work for them.
However, I think that Gabi previously judged each side of a match separately for players that couldn't make a time work for them.
Correct, i have some other ideas aswell on how to deal with timezones. It's just so far i've found the one i used for my tournament the easiest one to deal with. Try not to worry about it guys, but please feel free to suggest any ideas you might have ^^
I feel the biggest problem is the balance issues between players. While not entirely impossible to create individual maps for individual rounds, it would be asking too much from all the beatmappers, so I suspect in the end we'll have to use existing maps in the competiton.
Which is a problem, because many players grind maps. You played that map about five time, he's played it 200 times and has an FC with Hidden and Flashlight. It obviously takes out the balance factor since he knows the map so much better than you. We can use Hard Rock to flip the note chart, but in harder difficulty maps Hard Rock makes them impossible to play unless - yes, you play until you FC it.
A possible solution apart from that is to somewhat find a way to look at the ENTIRE played beatmaps history of the players and then pick a song which has not been played or played little times by both players. It's viable because while it is possible for a player to play every beatmap available in osu!, it is not possible for that same player to play ALL the beatmaps until he gets an FC for all of them.
I just want a tournament now, though I'd probably lose.
Which is a problem, because many players grind maps. You played that map about five time, he's played it 200 times and has an FC with Hidden and Flashlight. It obviously takes out the balance factor since he knows the map so much better than you. We can use Hard Rock to flip the note chart, but in harder difficulty maps Hard Rock makes them impossible to play unless - yes, you play until you FC it.
A possible solution apart from that is to somewhat find a way to look at the ENTIRE played beatmaps history of the players and then pick a song which has not been played or played little times by both players. It's viable because while it is possible for a player to play every beatmap available in osu!, it is not possible for that same player to play ALL the beatmaps until he gets an FC for all of them.
I just want a tournament now, though I'd probably lose.