Karen wrote:

altho i need to put NF for passing the highest diff, i think there are no such unreadable patterns which were mentioned in the dq post, those patterns fit the music well in my point of view.
So here is the Rebubble

Karen wrote:

altho i need to put NF for passing the highest diff

Fycho wrote:

Random space streams

1. 02:13:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) –It’s creative, but it doesn’t have playability, and it doesn’t fit the music.

Krah wrote:

I don't get the idea of HP3 on EX EX and 4 on Irrelvis' EX.
There is basically nothing who justify it apart the fact that more guys will clear your diffs. To have this kind of settings on airman was clearly a mistake let's not do it again.

Krah wrote:

I don't get the idea of HP3 on EX EX and 4 on Irrelvis' EX.
There is basically nothing who justify it apart the fact that more guys will clear your diffs. To have this kind of settings on airman was clearly a mistake let's not do it again. i used to set lower hp to avoid what i'm afraid of, but i can totally agree with you now, changed EX EX's hp to 6, and Irrelvis' EX's hp to 7.

CptSqBany wrote:

Well If the bubble is popped, then I will say that:

[EX EX]

00:02:745 (1,2) - and - 00:04:117 (1,2) - aren't the same sliders, It just hurts my eyes when i play this part... :< please make them the same sliders. (i hope you know what i mean ;w;) I dont know if that was meant to be like that, but yea, that just hurts eyes ;w; no change for... that's just common pattern.

(Proof 1 Proof 2)

CptSqBany wrote:

Chewin wrote:

I can't understand why so much people are complaining about the DQ of this mapset.
Being a player and mapper and even an old staff member I totally agree with this DQ. The EX EX diff looks cool in editor but well, it's full of unreadable and random spaced patterns. Map can be cool as much as you want but being a map for rank it must be playable as well. Actually, that diff is for nothing playable. I just can see random placed elements, with random and inconsistant spacing in the 95% of the map. Eww if the EX EX diff gets ranked in this status I guess every map with random spacing and placed elements should be ranked as well.

Says person without any creativity in his maps... Just copy pasting patterns from other mappers

Fycho wrote:

[EX EX]
Chaotic/Unreasonable spacing usage

1. 00:16:460 (1,2) -
2. 00:25:374 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
   Imo those spacing changes are fine, this mapping technique is a little common and used by everyone. The map is entirely built around these kind of stange patterns and that doesn't seem surprising to the player, really.
   
   
3. 00:29:831 (1,2) - This one is a little uncomfortable to play if the player doesn't have enough aim to be able to handle it. I played it properly but it could be really hard to play for less skilled players. But i think this diff is designed for good players, so there should be patterns which are difficult to play or read.
   Imo, HW, you should do something like a ctrl+g here 00:30:174 (1,2) - to avoid this low distance and make this pattern better to play for a majority of players.
   
4. 01:00:003 (1,2,3) - The real issue with this triple is not the distance between each circles, the real issue is 01:00:088 (2) - which is a little overlapped with 00:59:831 (2) - and makes this triple difficult to read and really surprising. Imo you should make this circle 00:59:831 (2) - more visible in order to make this pattern easier to read. Same with other triples like this.
   
5. 01:05:146 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Difficult to read for the first time yes. But if you memorize it, this plays fine. Up to you to change.
   
6. 01:26:917 (1,2,3,4,5) - No, this is fine to play, there's no reason to change it, as i said before, the map is built around huge spacing changes and "weird things", as long as things are more or less consistent, this is fine imo.
7. 01:32:917 (3,4) - , 01:35:317 (1,2,3,4) - same as ^
8. 01:37:289 (8,1) - This could be questionnable, but when i played it, it was fine.

Abrupt speed-down sliders

1. 00:43:546 (1) - As long as there is a red combo color, the player knows the SV is low, this technique is used everywhere and common.
2. 01:15:260 (4) – comparing with 01:19:546 (1) -01:22:288 (1) -01:25:031 (1) -, it’s so random. I really don't get why it is random, because they don't follow the same sound
3. 01:37:374 (1) - Tbh, i don't really get why it should be an issue. The slider still follows the song and, yes the sv is slow and this slider skips a lot of notes that could be mapped etc. But is that really something considered as an unrankable issue ?
4. 02:08:231 (1) - The consistency is not really ignored here, the low slider still follows the same sound like 00:51:431 (1,2) - . The length is just different and could be changed in order to keep the consistency with other red sliders before, up to you to change, HW.

Inconsistent spaces when SV changes

1. 01:20:574 (2,1) - It could be a little surprising to play something like this because it looks a little inconsistent compared to what you can see before and after, and imo this could be better if there is more distance between 01:20:574 (2,1) - in order to make it easier to read and play (the player may hit 01:20:917 (1) - too early)

Unreadable patterns

1. 01:15:603 (3) - I know why people find it unreadable. Just because visually the distance between 01:15:260 (4,1) - is really larger than 01:15:089 (3,4) - - and the gap is different, it could be surprising for the player. But I think it's not really a huge issue and it is still playable. But HW, you can change this pattern and put a lower distance between 01:15:260 (4,1) - in order to make this pattern easier to read.

Random space streams

1. 02:13:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) –It’s creative, but it doesn’t have playability, and it doesn’t fit the music. I won't say anything about this because i know HW won't change it ever

Unreasonable 1/8 sliders

1. 00:31:717 (2,3) –Let’s say, 1/4s fit much better

Cherry Blossom wrote:

General

1. drum-hitfinish2.wav contains a little delay around 5ms and that could be unrankable. To avoid doubts, it could be better if you avoid this long delay, you can cut 2ms from the start. sure, fixed.

S.Boat's Beginner

1. 00:20:574 (1) - a little spacing error which should be fixed. true, fixed.
2. 01:34:631 (3) - same as ^ fixed.

Standard

1. 00:31:717 (1,1) - This is too short after the spinner, you should avoid that. removed the slider to avoid that, and 01:36:174 (1,1) - is also fixed.

Yuki's Another

1. The difficulty setting is unbalanced, i mean the HP7. The jump from Hyper to Yuki's Another concerning HP is 5 -> 7. You should use something like 6 instead. changed hp to 6.

yf's Extreme

1. 00:10:974 (1,2,3,4) - This could be snapped wrongly, because this is inconsistent with EX EX diff which follows 1/6 instead. There are still sounds on 1/4 ticks so these 1/4 are fine if you follow the sounds on 1/4 ticks. But if you were supposed to follow wubwub sounds, these objects should be snapped like EX EX diff. changed rhythm style same to the top diff.
2. 01:54:516 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - The rhythm is messed up here, and i think it's not intentional, it should be fixed. oops, i think this is an other bug in automatic snapping... fixed.

Oracle's Expert

1. 01:56:574 (1,1,1,1) - Avoid this combospam, this could be misleading. fixed.

nice mod, appreciation and respect to you.

______________________________________

Let's talk about that DQ, please read it HW.

Fycho wrote:

[EX EX]
Chaotic/Unreasonable spacing usage

1. 00:16:460 (1,2) -
2. 00:25:374 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
   Imo those spacing changes are fine, this mapping technique is a little common and used by everyone. The map is entirely built around these kind of stange patterns and that doesn't seem surprising to the player, really. with same rhythm style most mappers wanna give different patterns to make various of playing sense, so do i. that may just some kind of pattern with triple 1/2 notes according to the original song.
   
3. 00:29:831 (1,2) - This one is a little uncomfortable to play if the player doesn't have enough aim to be able to handle it. I played it properly but it could be really hard to play for less skilled players. But i think this diff is designed for good players, so there should be patterns which are difficult to play or read.
   Imo, HW, you should do something like a ctrl+g here 00:30:174 (1,2) - to avoid this low distance and make this pattern better to play for a majority of players. i spread those notes by spacing shift for following different parts and tracks of the song, so it'll be a bit unusual to read and hit those stuffs when playing only when you just read it. actually most players hit objs right after they just read them, so they'll almost focus on what they're hitting, and then care about what's the next obj's position by scanning the screen, and what the rhythm that obj is by reading the app circle.
   to CB, i still keep that pattern because all those spread notes are set with really large distance and they are nearly full of the screen, people can easily read what those next objs are. the challenge will be the unnatural movement testing players' aiming skill, like when they can exactly know where and when they should hit, but can't do that because of their manners which won't be swift easily. some people may say that distance set should follow the song by its absolute value, but i wanna say that's what every mappers are doing, include me with this map.
   
4. 01:00:003 (1,2,3) - The real issue with this triple is not the distance between each circles, the real issue is 01:00:088 (2) - which is a little overlapped with 00:59:831 (2) - and makes this triple difficult to read and really surprising. Imo you should make this circle 00:59:831 (2) - more visible in order to make this pattern easier to read. Same with other triples like this. sure it's difficult to read, but for i want to keep the overlap pattern later after this, still keep these ones to make this kind of patterns' difficult consistent to play, other wise it'll cause a sudden death if an extremely hard overlap pattern strikes, imo.
   
5. 01:05:146 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Difficult to read for the first time yes. But if you memorize it, this plays fine. Up to you to change. same as above.
   
6. 01:26:917 (1,2,3,4,5) - No, this is fine to play, there's no reason to change it, as i said before, the map is built around huge spacing changes and "weird things", as long as things are more or less consistent, this is fine imo. it'll be a common pattern when those spacing are low down, thou the sense of this pattern is spread notes to follow tracks' melody. what i've done here is just larger the spacing, you can see similar patterns in other maps if you care about this seriously.
7. 01:32:917 (3,4) - , 01:35:317 (1,2,3,4) - same as ^ ^
8. 01:37:289 (8,1) - This could be questionnable, but when i played it, it was fine. do spacing stream jump before the last downbeat tick to emphasis the emotion is a really common way to maps nowadays, and it express the song even better than just give same ds among them by these objs, and also that's why it plays fine.

Abrupt speed-down sliders

1. 00:43:546 (1) - As long as there is a red combo color, the player knows the SV is low, this technique is used everywhere and common. the brightness is from elders, what i'm doing is remind us that there used to be genius gave excellent ideas already in this game long time ago.
2. 01:15:260 (4) – comparing with 01:19:546 (1) -01:22:288 (1) -01:25:031 (1) -, it’s so random. I really don't get why it is random, because they don't follow the same sound same as previous.
3. 01:37:374 (1) - Tbh, i don't really get why it should be an issue. The slider still follows the song and, yes the sv is slow and this slider skips a lot of notes that could be mapped etc. But is that really something considered as an unrankable issue ? beats at these sliders' ticks are so unsnapped or even random which blocked to be mapped, so i chose the current pattern, that's all what i've got if there's any sense of this in my mind.
4. 02:08:231 (1) - The consistency is not really ignored here, the low slider still follows the same sound like 00:51:431 (1,2) - . The length is just different and could be changed in order to keep the consistency with other red sliders before, up to you to change, HW. ofc you are right CB, and like what i've mentioned before, they are actually set in a consistent way to give that pattern, or i won't do that if there are not enough hints to that before.

Inconsistent spaces when SV changes

1. 01:20:574 (2,1) - It could be a little surprising to play something like this because it looks a little inconsistent compared to what you can see before and after, and imo this could be better if there is more distance between 01:20:574 (2,1) - in order to make it easier to read and play (the player may hit 01:20:917 (1) - too early) alright, thou it's true that this is not really a ds issue, changed the ds setting to common ones now.

Unreadable patterns

1. 01:15:603 (3) - I know why people find it unreadable. Just because visually the distance between 01:15:260 (4,1) - is really larger than 01:15:089 (3,4) - - and the gap is different, it could be surprising for the player. But I think it's not really a huge issue and it is still playable. But HW, you can change this pattern and put a lower distance between 01:15:260 (4,1) - in order to make this pattern easier to read. people feel that this pattern is unreadable because they may misread the slider's end as a circle, thou they even ignored how many app circles appeared and where they appeared here. that's why their reading skills are so weak that they even can't read simple patterns like this. and to that distance advise, well, i'll give a bit change it in your ways and do some additional effect to give a better structure setting.

Random space streams

1. 02:13:717 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) –It’s creative, but it doesn’t have playability, and it doesn’t fit the music. I won't say anything about this because i know HW won't change it ever what i wanna say is already posted before.

Unreasonable 1/8 sliders

1. 00:31:717 (2,3) –Let’s say, 1/4s fit much better

After applying this mod/recheck, call the previous BN (Karen) for a rebubble, because i think since the last bubble you changed many things.
Call me back after getting your rebubble. ok.

MillhioreF wrote:

Hey HW! Let's get some things looked at before too many people get invested and excited over this.

[EX EX]
01:15:431 (1,2,3) - This is still 99% unreadable. Due to the way the preceding notes are stacked to match the SV, you can't actually see the combonumbers on the default skin, making it look just like a 4-note stream. whaa? approaching circles showed when and where those notes and slider's head really is, really don't need to spread the slider's end out. if that's unrankble, then all those short repeating sliders are all unrankble as well, because of same reason. and for the combonumber on default skin, most of streams+slider pattern may cause that as well, how that can be an issue anyway??? the point of the misread is that there's no app circle approaching at the end of the slider, idk if this is a really forced to be changed pattern from no on... still kept that.

I'm checking other things and looking through the rest of the difficulties now, and I'll update this post with a larger mod once I'm done. Hold tight, I do still think this is a cool mapset and has lots of potential! ok... thou if all works are not done in 12 hours i'll leave that for half a month because of my business trip from tomorrow.

Default wrote:

Grats!

CptSqBany wrote:

Default wrote:

Grats!

nice reflex ex

MillhioreF wrote:

Hey HW! Let's get some things looked at before too many people get invested and excited over this.

[EX EX]
01:15:431 (1,2,3) - This is still 99% unreadable. Due to the way the preceding notes are stacked to match the SV, you can't actually see the combonumbers on the default skin, making it look just like a 4-note stream.

I'm checking other things and looking through the rest of the difficulties now, and I'll update this post with a larger mod once I'm done. Hold tight, I do still think this is a cool mapset and has lots of potential!

Hollow Wings wrote:

whaa? approaching circles showed when and where those notes and slider's head really is, really don't need to spread the slider's end out. if that's unrankble, then all those short repeating sliders are all unrankble as well, because of same reason. and for the combonumber on default skin, most of streams+slider pattern may cause that as well, how that can be an issue anyway??? the point of the misread is that there's no app circle approaching at the end of the slider, idk if this is a really forced to be changed pattern from no on... still kept that.

SPOILER

MillhioreF wrote:

The difference between this pattern and other similar stream+slider patterns is that the sliders in this map are so short that there's no slidertrack visible at all, so it just looks like 2 circles. Most players in the heat of the map won't notice there are only 3 approach circles, and at such high AR approach circles are tricky to read anyway.
The pattern is definitely possible to read, but you have to know it's coming ahead of time so you can specifically try to read it, which I don't think is very fair. I'm holding my ground on this point for now, but more opinions are welcome. You can instantly make this more readable and playable by compressing (1,2,3) so there's a more clear spacing difference between the circles and the sliderend. totally got your idea... thou i think my version is completely ok to rc and real playing status, it may be still a problem in reading like you've mentioned above. so yep i decide to change this pattern.
fixed the triplet by complete stack them.
thou your version below is good as well, just wanna keep all those streams in similar style in same sections orz...

but this kind of pattern should be announced that everyone need to avoid in mapping from now on, like some kind of forced guideline or even rank rules. otherwise people may made mistakes like i did if they don't know stuff in these style...

SPOILER

Anyway, I've updated my post with a few more mod points. Most of them are subjective, but I'd still like to see them addressed.
if there's anything need to be changed then pls post that.