Logitech G710+, pretty neat keyboard.

Envisionise wrote:

School laptop keyboard ;D
I win hands down

i had so much accuracy on my school keyboard but the kro of 3 isnt helpful and now im stuck with a new keyboard that has kro of 7 but so much harder to use ;-;

if you play with rubberdome for a long time then change to mechanical, It's like you play with worst keyboard for acc ..

I use keyboard Genius GK-110001

I tried using my new laptop because it is very graphically capable, but I'm finding that my old Toshiba Satellite c655d is giving me better scores.
I'd rather screw up this keyboard than the one in my new laptop anyway. No problem with hitting multiple keys... asfd;lkjasfd;lkjafdskj;lfadsj;lkfads;jlk<---- that's what happens when I bang with eight fingers at a time And I don't feel any lag at all, but I just start Osu! a few days ago, so maybe I don't know what I'm looking for yet...

Just laptop keyboard and flexible keyboard
If i want to play mania. My left hand on the laptop keyboard and my right hand on flexible keyboard

I need a mechanical keyboard :L

I use various keyboards, although absolutely none are optimal.

My "good" keyboard is a Microsoft Sidewinder X6 that's been well-broken in. It's got a really nice and pleasant feel to it- especially for what I think is a membrane.

My "eh" keyboard is a Dell SK-8115, which supposedly has a key-press comparable to an MX Blue, despite again being a membrane.

As of now, though, I'm ditching full-size keyboards in favor of a completely custom-made board made for osu!mania and osu!mania only. Ten play keys, bpm+/-, scoreboard/ui toggles, pause and restart are the only present keys.

My main hurdle is deciding whether I can justify the shipping cost to get a set of 16 Gateron Clears (35g activation force!) or just take the 10g activation difference and use Cherry Reds.

Adolebit wrote:

SPOILER

I need a mechanical keyboard :L

A Razor keyboard D:
worse than a membrane/laptop keyboard

Ducky channel zero shine MX Brown

I really like this keyboard i fell so confortable will i'm playing

Laptop/flat keyboards could potentially be as good as mechanical keyboards. Discuss.

Wish I had a flat keyboard as effective as my mech. D:

I'm actually better with flat at 4k, and better with mecha at other keys. I find it faster.

I've been playing on laptops since mania come into existence. I love it.

Shoegazer wrote:

Laptop/flat keyboards could potentially be as good as mechanical keyboards. Discuss.

As a continuous user of the things, I can say with absolute certainty that they are worse in nearly every way, shape, and form.

A lot of people talk about mech keyboards with a sort of reverence, or hand-wave their decisions by saying "it's just better." They never really explain why it's just better. Here's why.

The main advantage of mechanical keyboards is the fact that bottoming out is not required to activate the switch. Indeed, activation of a mechanical switch is actually around the middle of the stroke. There's also the fact that mechanical switches don't require a lot of force to activate. My Sidewinder X6, which is probably the lightest membrane I've ever used, has an activation force of 55g, compared to a Cherry Red/Brown's 45.

Consequently, unless the specific membrane in question has both a short travel and a light press (which is a recipe for disaster on most keyboards, as the membrane would take a huge brunt of the force you put into pressing the keys and likely get damaged) a membrane can't be as quick for most purposes.

There's also the fact that Cherry switches last up to 50x (!) longer than membrane keyboards, AND they can be replaced individually. If a membrane key conks out, you'll have to completely stop using that key forever or get an entirely new keyboard.

Nice you summed up perfectly what you can find all around on the internet.

I have yet to see someone not bottoming out when playing o!m or any other game modes really. This is probably possible to do on diffs you find easy, but I can hardly imagine anyone be relaxed enough to not bottom out when playing anything from their skill level and above.

I picked up a mech (Steelseries 7G here, so black switches) simply because I needed a keyboard for my newly acquired desktop computer and that was the best option as far as durability goes since I knew I was going to play VSRGs heavily. This is also because I didn't bother looking for a flat, low latency keyboard, mostly due to the fact that at that time I had my (very low end) laptop with a flat keyboard I feel is perfect and thought it was enough for o!m. It wasn't because of the time it took for my computer to register the hits (big chords were a big f u to the face since it needed ~100ms to 200ms to register all the keys (≠ ghosting). Now if it happened to function properly, on a higher-end laptop with low-latency, I would probably be using that one instead of my mech because I won't travel those 2mm more which is often a trouble when I want to jack/vibro (key getting stuck in that bottom 2mm zone which means no key registered). I probably wouldn't feel any difference as far as actuation force goes since I'm used to these flat keyboards and now black switches (which are roughly 60g AF).

Honestly if I had waited a bit more and looked for flat keyboard I would probably be using them anyway because they feel better to play with IMO. The sole reason I'm sticking with my 7G is because I find it dumb to have 2 keyboards. It'll probably last for a while, but if it comes to die, and that I'm still playing VSRGs at that point, I'll most likely be going for one of those flat keyboards even if it means they won't last as long. I'm more than willing to pay to keep having things working.

Of course, this is my own point of view.

mickeytheluxray wrote:

Shoegazer wrote:

Laptop/flat keyboards could potentially be as good as mechanical keyboards. Discuss.

As a continuous user of the things, I can say with absolute certainty that they are worse in nearly every way, shape, and form.

A lot of people talk about mech keyboards with a sort of reverence, or hand-wave their decisions by saying "it's just better." They never really explain why it's just better. Here's why.

The main advantage of mechanical keyboards is the fact that bottoming out is not required to activate the switch. Indeed, activation of a mechanical switch is actually around the middle of the stroke. There's also the fact that mechanical switches don't require a lot of force to activate. My Sidewinder X6, which is probably the lightest membrane I've ever used, has an activation force of 55g, compared to a Cherry Red/Brown's 45.

Consequently, unless the specific membrane in question has both a short travel and a light press (which is a recipe for disaster on most keyboards, as the membrane would take a huge brunt of the force you put into pressing the keys and likely get damaged) a membrane can't be as quick for most purposes.

There's also the fact that Cherry switches last up to 50x (!) longer than membrane keyboards, AND they can be replaced individually. If a membrane key conks out, you'll have to completely stop using that key forever or get an entirely new keyboard.

There we go, I agree with most of the things you've said. Was writing a metagame guide for o!m and I'm pretty surprised that I overlooked the quality component.

PyaKura wrote:

I have yet to see someone not bottoming out when playing o!m or any other game modes really. This is probably possible to do on diffs you find easy, but I can hardly imagine anyone be relaxed enough to not bottom out when playing anything from their skill level and above.

...I won't travel those 2mm more which is often a trouble when I want to jack/vibro (key getting stuck in that bottom 2mm zone which means no key registered).

These are very good points in favor of membranes. I'm sure there's solutions to each though- at the moment "training" and "really thick O-ring/buffer pad" come to mind. |D

I'm currently using CM Storm Quickfire TK. Love the NKRO though waking up the computer from sleep in NKRO mode using keyboard screws my computer

Shoegazer wrote:

Laptop/flat keyboards could potentially be as good as mechanical keyboards. Discuss.

I believe you can jack faster on a mechanical keyboard. Anyway, playing on laptop will cap the difficulty of the map you play else you'll have to buy a new one every couple of months...

Never got to play vsrgs with a mech.

Currently playing on a macbook. Kb still alive after 2 years although the z and x characters are erased. Feels really good to play although I accu much better on an A4Tech (in turn, play with much more misses).
Can currently do some vibros and 200 bpm jumps for 4k is my comfort zone.
Bursting on 7k is fun.

Ducky Zero with Blue switches.
Pretty good, no frills or anything. Just a plain black keyboard with mech switches.

Ozone blade gaming keyboard is what I use and I love it

q-pad mk50 cherry mx brown switches

Brownsville369 wrote:

Ducky Zero with Blue switches.
Pretty good, no frills or anything. Just a plain black keyboard with mech switches.

GOD thanks i was thinking im the only one with Blue Switches i want to try Reds or Browns but non of Friends got one :/
only thing thats shit on this KB is the Space it pop out of the holder if you dont press it near to the middle (i play 7k)

Just bought a Ducky Shine 4 with MX Reds.

Genius slimstar i250 :'v

Just got a Corsair K65 RGB w/cherry mx red switches (only come in red) like 4 hours ago.

Cherry G81-3000 with MY white cylindrical stem switch variant
kek

KU-0833
It's also the worst keyboard if you are going for speed. You can't just lightly tap it, got to use some force.
BTW is there a USB N-key keyboard you guys could recommend?

This informative post will be deleted anyway, just move along

abraker wrote:

BTW is there a USB N-key keyboard you guys could recommend?

NKRO is impossible on USB due to the limitations of the platform.

USB keyboards arrange all key-presses into a six-input packet that is sent to the computer each tick. Even the SideWinder X4, which I believe has one of the highest KRO figures of any usb keyboard, only has 24KRO (probably achieved by collecting four ticks before sending the strokes recorded to the processor).

mickeytheluxray wrote:

NKRO is impossible on USB due to the limitations of the platform.

USB keyboards arrange all key-presses into a six-input packet that is sent to the computer each tick. Even the SideWinder X4, which I believe has one of the highest KRO figures of any usb keyboard, only has 24KRO (probably achieved by collecting four ticks before sending the strokes recorded to the processor).

I remember reading that some keyboards have 2 USB connectors to allow or come closer to it. How true is that?

abraker wrote:

I remember reading that some keyboards have 2 USB connectors to allow or come closer to it. How true is that?

If there are, I have never seen one. The hardware just can't support 104 inputs at the same time.

mickeytheluxray wrote:

abraker wrote:

BTW is there a USB N-key keyboard you guys could recommend?

NKRO is impossible on USB due to the limitations of the platform.

USB keyboards arrange all key-presses into a six-input packet that is sent to the computer each tick. Even the SideWinder X4, which I believe has one of the highest KRO figures of any usb keyboard, only has 24KRO (probably achieved by collecting four ticks before sending the strokes recorded to the processor).

Actually the keyboard I use say's it has 100% anti-ghosting and full nkro (Corsair K65 rgb), also the K70 RGB says it has 104 kro while the K95 RGB has 122 kro in which imo is plenty xD (all the models I mention is plug in with USB)(has 2 USB connectors, need x2 2.0 usb outlet or just x1 3.0 USB outlet)

If you want prices:
K65 RGB $140
K70 RGB $170
K95 RGB $190

K65 RGB can be bought at your nearest Best Buy (USA) only comes in red switches and is tenkeyless btw

Don't know if the non RGB also has the same amount of kro

stock keyboard with beats by dre 'b' key





i have no pp

This informative post will be deleted anyway, just move along

Rori Vidi Veni wrote:

I suggest actually reading up on NKRO and USB polling(two separate topics you're mixing up) somewhere knowledgeable like Deskthority and their wiki or GeekHack.

There are three ways a keyboard can send data through USB.

1) The official USB HID standard way, limited to 6 keys but works with everything.
2) Keyboard's controller is claiming to be an USB hub with a bunch of keyboards in. Theoretically limited to 6 * number of fake keyboards, in practice it depends on a bunch of things. Most of the implementations don't work on Macs and some of them on Linux too.
3) NKRO(more like 256KRO but who cares, it's enough) over USB. Yes, it's possible, however it's quite far from the standard, and some motherboards(regardless of the operating system) just won't take it either just in the BIOS/EFI or at all. That's why some keyboards have a NKRO/6KRO toggle,

Your safest bet is to get a keyboard that works with an USB to PS/2 passthrough and buy one if it's not included in the box. It even can make some of the implementations in the second way work on Mac/Linux(I think Noppoo Choc Mini is one of them?), but don't expect it to fix everything and do your research before buying.

NKRO itself depends on the PCB/wiring and the controller of the keyboard rather than the cable sticking out of it.

There are three main ways of making a keyboard NKRO.

1) Use a controller that has one pin per key + common ground + power and output pins. Viable for a keypad, not so much for a whole keyboard.
2) Make the keyboard more or less a giant oscilloscope. That's how Sidewinder X4 and the RealKey do it.
3) Make a proper matrix and put diodes after every switch. That's how 99% of NKRO keyboards do it.

I'm not gonna go into some obscure ways done only by one very old keyboard like making every key an ultrasonic transmitter(again, go check out Deskthority) or things done on capacitive keyboards. Go read up on them if you're interested.

I know what you're talking about but I don't see anything about someone mentioning polling rates. Also was just stating what it says on the corsair product, I tested my keyboard (K65) and I can press a lot of keys at once (didn't count since I'm only playing mania with it and only need 10 kro)

The part about the BIOS thing, yea some PC has to use BIOS mode on the keyboard since the keyboard won't work if not in which you will be limited to 6 kro (some keyboard can toggle between NKRO and NKRO as you stated)

I wouldn't buy a mechanical keyboard if I didn't have knowledge about NKRO and polling rates xD

Rori Vidi Veni wrote:

Your safest bet is to get a keyboard that works with an USB to PS/2 passthrough and buy one if it's not included in the box. It even can make some of the implementations in the second way work on Mac/Linux(I think Noppoo Choc Mini is one of them?), but don't expect it to fix everything and do your research before buying.

My laptop doesn't have PS/2, so I'm looking for a way to do it via USB

Ayaya wrote:

Actually the keyboard I use say's it has 100% anti-ghosting and full nkro... (all the models I mention is plug in with USB)

It may say nkro, but can your computer detect at least, idk, 18 keys while it's plugged into USB?