500
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At what point does fps increases have diminishing returns?
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60 = 16.7ms
120 = 8.3ms
250 = 4ms
333 = 3ms
500 = 2ms
1000 = 1ms
as far as I can tell low fps increases latency between your mouse and your screen. The numbers may not be as bad as this, but what's 16.7 ms delay to a word document? What's 16.7 ms delay to a rhythm game?
500 sounds like a good number, but I think 300 is good enough.
120 = 8.3ms
250 = 4ms
333 = 3ms
500 = 2ms
1000 = 1ms
as far as I can tell low fps increases latency between your mouse and your screen. The numbers may not be as bad as this, but what's 16.7 ms delay to a word document? What's 16.7 ms delay to a rhythm game?
500 sounds like a good number, but I think 300 is good enough.
Anything between 60-250 would make a large difference, anything past 300fps will give diminishing returns. People who play at 1k+ fps do so for those microsecond advantages which won't make a difference realistically.
I notice any dip below 400, I used to play at 600 consistently and recently have obtained a fps of 1400. I have not felt any difference between the two frame rates. Personally, I would shoot for 500 if you can.
ZenithPhantasm
E m i
at every point
bigger is better
use a fps that isn't divisable by your screen hz for less visible tearing (tearing of subsequent frames won't be at the same place on screen)
220, 260 fps looks fine on my toaster laptop
bigger is better
use a fps that isn't divisable by your screen hz for less visible tearing (tearing of subsequent frames won't be at the same place on screen)
220, 260 fps looks fine on my toaster laptop
ZenithPhantasm
Implying we all use Wacom.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Tablet users wont notice a difference after 200fps because wacoms are capped at 200hz. Mouse users will notice a difference until 1000fps.
E m i
ZenithPhantasm
E m i
It's really hard to see any difference in motion blur between 120Hz and 144Hz. I'd say 120Hz is the sweet spot, especially when you have G-Sync or ULMB.
A way to reduce motion blur without getting a new screen (or a screen compatible with strobe light or similar methods) is using a gray background instead of a black background for the game (pixel response times are lower for gray-to-white than black-to-white)
Higher refresh rate helps the most for fast moving objects (for example: playing with high scroll rate in osu!mania), so they jump less frame-by-frame.
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/Full Tablet wrote:
Motion blur is not related to the screen refresh rate, it depends on the pixel response time.
Higher refresh rate helps the most for fast moving objects (for example: playing with high scroll rate in osu!mania), so they jump less frame-by-frame.
educate yourself
You are right. The motion blur described there is actually caused because of the camera used for testing the effect (high exposure time), and also happens with human vision (because of persistence of vision); not because the images are blurred on the screen.Philosofikal wrote:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/Full Tablet wrote:
Motion blur is not related to the screen refresh rate, it depends on the pixel response time.
Higher refresh rate helps the most for fast moving objects (for example: playing with high scroll rate in osu!mania), so they jump less frame-by-frame.
educate yourself
This kind of motion blur is reduced by making each frame appear on the screen for less time. Ways to do this is using a screen with strobe light, or getting a screen with high refresh rate.
Motion blur is entirely in the eye because you don't see in frames per second - your sight is a continuous, real time chemical reaction to the exposure to light. The less time an image is exposed to your eye, the less it persists in your vision. This is why CRTs have basically no "motion blur" relative to their FPS - they refresh in strobes, the actual image is only exposed to your eye for only a small amount of time (which is why they flicker and cause eye strain). It's like a prehistoric version of Lightboost/ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur).
When you have inadequate pixel response times, you get ghosting, an entirely different problem. You get the "ghost" of previous frames in the current frame because the pixels can't keep up with the color transition, and are continuously in the middle of transitioning by the time the next frame appears, causing trails of improperly transitioned colors to appear behind moving objects.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1430257/what ... r-monitors
When you have inadequate pixel response times, you get ghosting, an entirely different problem. You get the "ghost" of previous frames in the current frame because the pixels can't keep up with the color transition, and are continuously in the middle of transitioning by the time the next frame appears, causing trails of improperly transitioned colors to appear behind moving objects.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1430257/what ... r-monitors
240 is a good number. if you can keep stable 500fps, then i'd go higher, else 240 is good.
420 fps is also a good number. Diminishing returns happen at 1337 fps unless you're mlg.
TLDR; Inputs can be calculated multiple times between still frames and are not dependant on your monitor refresh rate. What you want to look at is your tablet / mouse polling rate where adding more frames becomes useless.Philosofikal wrote:
Motion blur is entirely in the eye because you don't see in frames per second - your sight is a continuous, real time chemical reaction to the exposure to light. The less time an image is exposed to your eye, the less it persists in your vision. This is why CRTs have basically no "motion blur" relative to their FPS - they refresh in strobes, the actual image is only exposed to your eye for only a small amount of time (which is why they flicker and cause eye strain). It's like a prehistoric version of Lightboost/ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur).
When you have inadequate pixel response times, you get ghosting, an entirely different problem. You get the "ghost" of previous frames in the current frame because the pixels can't keep up with the color transition, and are continuously in the middle of transitioning by the time the next frame appears, causing trails of improperly transitioned colors to appear behind moving objects.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1430257/what ... r-monitors
When talking about tablet or mouse input the comfortablity is not entirely dependant on perceivable refresh rate of your screen or amount of motion blur but input lag which is decided by your in-game FPS. There is difference between 120fps and 240fps input lag. I don't think input lag is highly noticeable after 240.
I haven't tried playing with 120hz monitor but difference between 60hz and 80hz is huge when looking at notes and such. If you have enough rhythm skill and you know exactly where your cursor is going to land refresh rate is not important factor as framerate.
At some point i tried playing with game capped at 30hz as an experiment. Though being very uncomfortable i couldn't see huge hit in my playing ability as i would with capped framerate of 60 (V-Sync) which was suprising.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
We need special osu!tablets with 1000hz polling rate
bamboos will go to trash
bamboos will go to trash
ZenithPhantasm
You're right about 1000 fps being the limit but game logic does not have to be limited by the fps rate at all.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
1000 fps because game logic runs at the same rate as fps and 1000hz is the maximum polling rate supported by USB 2.0
Except, of course, when the PC begins to be limited by the game's graphical processing because it's not actually able to reach the fps threshold you gave it.
The game logic of osu! is limited by the fps, fixing that would require rewriting a lot of the coding of the game.Saphirshroom wrote:
You're right about 1000 fps being the limit but game logic does not have to be limited by the fps rate at all.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
1000 fps because game logic runs at the same rate as fps and 1000hz is the maximum polling rate supported by USB 2.0
Except, of course, when the PC begins to be limited by the game's graphical processing because it's not actually able to reach the fps threshold you gave it.
Since the game takes the input once per frame, accuracy can be affected by low fps.
An estimation of how much accuracy is affected by fps (the table takes a theoretical input with a hit errors that follow a Normal Distribution with certain UR so the average accuracy at infinite fps is 95%, and estimates how accuracy and measured UR changes by changes of fps and the rounding done by the game of the hit errors)
(OD11 is added as a case where fps has an extreme effect on accuracy, it's not exactly OD10+DT, but is close)
Edit: made a new table with the timing windows shown in the game client instead of the ones in the wiki.
That's a... strange design decision. Thanks for pointing that out though, I didn't know that.Full Tablet wrote:
The game logic of osu! is limited by the fps, fixing that would require rewriting a lot of the coding of the game.Saphirshroom wrote:
You're right about 1000 fps being the limit but game logic does not have to be limited by the fps rate at all.
Except, of course, when the PC begins to be limited by the game's graphical processing because it's not actually able to reach the fps threshold you gave it.
Since the game takes the input once per frame, accuracy can be affected by low fps.
There are several possible reasons for that variation.[ Momiji ] wrote:
103,92 UR = 94.45%?
what
is it because the 100s were major lapses?
- The previous table only accounted for accuracy for circles (not sliders nor spinners). Assuming all sliders were a 300, 98.29% accuracy is equivalent to 97.40% accuracy on circles for that specific map. The game takes the error on sliders as well as circles for the calculation, if you tend to hit sliders less accurately than circles, then it is likely that in that play your UR on circles was less than the value shown.
- The previous table assumed a distribution of hit errors close to a Normal Distribution with mean error equal to 0 (Normal Distribution + an Uniform Distribution disturbance caused by the fps error; and rounded to the nearest millisecond). If your hit error distribution is not close to that distribution, then the estimation wouldn't be accurate.
- The table took the mean accuracy on circles. Because of the asymmetry of the Binomial Distribution, the median is different to the mean (unless the amount of circles tends to infinity, in that case they are equal); even though the mean is a certain value, there is a probability higher than 50% of getting an accuracy higher than the mean.
- The table took the timing windows shown in the Wiki, which are slightly wrong (18ms instead of 19.5ms for 300s).
According to a perfect Normal Distribution of hits (and fixed timing values), the probability of getting an accuracy of at least 98.29% (assuming all sliders are 300s) in that map with an UR on circles of 103.84 is 31.69% (so it's a very slight fluke according to the estimation). The median accuracy with that UR is 98.00% (the mean is 97.87%).
Edit: Also I noticed that that play was OD9.8, not OD10, fixed the values.
See signature, you have no idea what you're talking aboutZenithPhantasm wrote:
ULMB/Lightboost strobing are both crappy imitations of CRT's no motion blur :^)
[ Momiji ] wrote:
pls no bully
K person who thinks liking a game completely invalidates the entire person as a wholeZenithPhantasm wrote:
K person who posted a CoD video to show "omg i gud with mouse"
u shure been ridin that horse fer a while there cowboy, think it's time to give 'er a rest?
ZenithPhantasm
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/303080/start=60Philosofikal wrote:
Is there some problem with that? I see myself going up 40,000 rank in one month of playing, and hitting about 75,000 before that with two weeks of playing before selling my PC.
I have tons of experience using a mouse in a competitive setting.
Regardless of whether you like Call of Duty or not, you can't tell me with a straight face I don't know how to handle a mouse. You should give me some advice on how to be a rude moron so I can fit in better around here with people like you.
K m8
Zenny is our resident retard; pay him no attention. We use the RSI to keep him in check.
The thing is, I don't even see what's wrong with that post. I absolutely understand how to handle a mouse well - I win almost every single pub match in CS:GO I play and I only have 86 hours in the game, and barely understand any of the strategy or metagame. That gameplay clip is the shit and totally proves my point.Kheldragar wrote:
Zenny is our resident retard; pay him no attention. We use the RSI to keep him in check.
I think the implication is that I was saying that made me immediately good at this particular game, but I didn't say that anywhere.
Well if you admit that it doesn't make you good at this game, then what's the point of bringing it up, in an on-topic (or at least meant to be) section of an osu! forums? Cool story, you're good at cod or csgo, bring it to off-topic or whatever relevant section it's meant to be in.Philosofikal wrote:
The thing is, I don't even see what's wrong with that post. I absolutely understand how to handle a mouse well - I win almost every single pub match in CS:GO I play and I only have 86 hours in the game, and barely understand any of the strategy or metagame. That gameplay clip is the shit and totally proves my point.Kheldragar wrote:
Zenny is our resident retard; pay him no attention. We use the RSI to keep him in check.
I think the implication is that I was saying that made me immediately good at this particular game, but I didn't say that anywhere.
Even in the original thread that you posted that cod gameplay in, look at the context, if you really didn't imply that knowing how to use a mouse in another game made you good at osu!, then why bother bringing it up?