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DJ Pippi [Game Mode Concept]

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81
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +12
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TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
I love the axis idea, I already can see the osu!bemani 8-key game mode working like that, with holdnotes and etc.

But anyway, talking about rokodo's idea, even if notes will appear based on position basis, I still don't get how are you supposed to spam 1/4 streams/stacks like this. Of course it can use an 8 keys set, 2 keys for each line, but this makes problems with layout (2 rows with 4 keys = intuitive but not comfortable, 8 keys in 1 line = comfortable but less intuitive)

My thoughts on this matter are like this: when map gets to the place where notes don't change their placement (or the needed axis) notes begin to fall
a) in one of these patterns, repeating one after each other (one pattern per stream): ZXCVZXCV/ZCXVZCXV/XCZVXCZV/probably more, but I think 3-4 will be enough (I prefer this option)
b) in the column that they're supposed to fall in and to the next/previous one, so player would have to spam 2 buttons like in osu!standart

Now why I don't like this concept:
circle movements are harder to read than linear
4 columns are too little number if use note axis concept
4 is fine for hitsounds but then this turns out like wierd Taiko overhaul

Srsly, if someone was willing to code an 8 (or at least 6) keys osu!bemani like that above, I'd be so grateful that included that person in my last will D:
Nazo_old
137 posts
Joined December 2008
Nazo_old
I support this wholeheartedly. >3<

(I'm surprised this wasn't denied. oAo)
+1
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite

LuigiHann wrote:

That's a bit interesting. I have always thought that the bemani mode should make use of the y-coordinates of objects, since CtB uses the x-coordinates. For variety, and also because a lot of mappers consciously or subconsciously match height to pitch to some extent.
'Tis how I'd imagined it to be, as well.
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
I srsly hope my posts won't get ignored ._.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
Spacebar for sliders kthxbai

Or you can use the ALT keys.
Well I coukd my KB is like that
arien666
6,312 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666
Seems good idea for osu!'s 4th game mode :3
Well?

I'll copy this thread's URL into Korean forum ;_;



Anyway, seems good XD
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann

TKiller wrote:

I srsly hope my posts won't get ignored ._.
I'm sure people are thinking about it.

Maybe we could go the Frets on Fire route and have one hand hold a button down, and then have the other hand "strum" with two keys
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Honestly, I think 4--maybe 5--buttons are good enough. Any more and it would get confusing.

I don't quite see the Guitar Hero strumming logic working so well on the keyboard, honestly. Perhaps it could be an option for those who own the guitar peripheral?


Expanding further on my ideas, I think there should be a cutoff of note frequency (probably at 1/2s, but varying with map difficulty) where multi-notes (as established by hitsounds) will be replaced with alternating notes--to avoid awkward multi-note patterns on low difficulties.

Likewise, if a stack is too quick (1/4s or 1/3s sound about right), the notes, which otherwise would be found on the same button, will be made to alternate between two adjacent buttons.

Sliders would be handled much the same way as in Taiko. They would become holds. Only the start and end points are considered; rebounds are ignored but do add to the length of the hold as would be expected. If a hold would be shorter than a 1/1 beat, it is turned into two regular hits--one at the start and one at the end. The accuracy of your RELEASE from a hold, as well as your start on it, is important for scoring.

Spinners are like Taiko but you must use all the buttons or they will stop spinning. I'd aim to make it spin fastest when you use all the buttons as uniformly as possible.
Dragvon
osu! Alumni
2,269 posts
Joined June 2009
Dragvon
I liked this ideia a lot :3!
But i would love to scratch using the mouse back and forth insted of pressing buttons :3
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish

Dragvon wrote:

I liked this ideia a lot :3!
But i would love to scratch using the mouse back and forth insted of pressing buttons :3
Actually I think this would be pretty good for spinners

Might be hard to swith between mouse and keyboard quickly though.
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
let's not mix osu!standart with this keyboard-mashing mode


@MetalMario
well, I've suggested a bit same things about alternating buttons for fast notes. Also, I still like your idea abot axis-based note placement much better than hitsound one.

Frets on Fire strumming logic - this can work, but kinda ruins the original concept for me.

Number of keys - actually if you're of button-smasher kind like me rather then pointer-user, getting used to >4 buttons is easy. 8 buttons can be tough for someone because pinky fingers are generally not used for rapid key pressings, but 6 buttons can be mastered by anyone. Also, more buttons = more room for interesing use of double or even triple key presses.

I still hate that it's a circle, I'll be able to read only the 1/4 of it, right before notes hitting the judge line.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
It not being a circle really defeats the whole DJ thing :/
Neo Adonis
320 posts
Joined November 2009
Neo Adonis
The coolest idea I've ever read!!

I think the scratching could be done better (maybe, I dunno) with the mouse, e.g, but yeah, the mode concept is good.

Support!!
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
@RandomJibberish
Truly enough, but agree, circle movements are really harder to read than linear ones. Well, everything can be get used to and probably some color differentiation can help, but still.
Zero Azrael
1 post
Joined February 2010
Zero Azrael
It seems very interesting

I'm looking forward to this mode~ :)
-Pinkie Pie-
11 posts
Joined December 2009
-Pinkie Pie-
什么？
-Xero-
526 posts
Joined October 2009
-Xero-
interessting idea..

you could use the osu! logo for the skin right?

+support
nhii
15 posts
Joined July 2009
nhii

Rokodo wrote:

Discuss.

[attachment=0:5fb15]djpippiconcept.png[/attachment:5fb15]
woah, ghetto image

hmm, looks complicated . . so in sense if the bars are full (all around the circle) than you're doing good? and when one of the bars slowly goes up thats like the timer ?

crap i feel really dumb right now, a game mode ? HUH? what hotkeys wait what ? -_- is it like pretty much same mode except different bindings for different claps and hits?
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DeletedUser_151115
DeletedUser_151115
a
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Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,739 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86
I think so.

But in that case...wouldn't getting high scores be somewhat based on luck? You may always get a horrible combination of notes. D: Also, many rhythm games have set patterns since...well, it's the "proper" way to do it on your peripheral. Like, there's a reason those notes where there; it's like playing sheet music on a piano. If it's random every time, well, what's the proper way? =/ I guess I'm being a bit philosophical, but whatever. XD It'd be a lovely mod for this though.
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

I think so.

But in that case...wouldn't getting high scores be somewhat based on luck? You may always get a horrible combination of notes. D: Also, many rhythm games have set patterns since...well, it's the "proper" way to do it on your peripheral. Like, there's a reason those notes where there; it's like playing sheet music on a piano. If it's random every time, well, what's the proper way? =/ I guess I'm being a bit philosophical, but whatever. XD It'd be a lovely mod for this though.
Man, you didn't get what he was saying at all. It's not random every time, it's generated randomly upon creation, and then it is the same for every player. That's how the CtB "spinners" work, you might notice.

Still, I don't think random is a good idea here. There are plenty of elements of the map design (position, hitsounds) that could be used in determining key mapping, no sense in resorting to randomness. I do agree that there's no point in having a "slider" key, when a slider is just a held note.
DeletedUser_151115
DeletedUser_151115
a
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pokr5
7 posts
Joined March 2010
pokr5
If this was put into osu!, then there can maybe be support for the Guitar Hero/Rock Band/Band Hero guitars.
:D :roll:
DeletedUser_151115
DeletedUser_151115
a
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Natteke
6,540 posts
Joined August 2009
Natteke
I like it.
Need more mods for osu D:
Rokodo
1,104 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
Rokodo
I'm also thinking the needle could bounce to the BPM of the song, perhaps. That is, bouncing back and forth on 1/2 beats. Only slightly though, don't need eyes being hurt by anything else other than -certain- storyboards.

And where I wrote notes to appear from the line, it doesn't have to be just like that. Maybe they could fade in from around there.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

pokr5 wrote:

If this was put into osu!, then there can maybe be support for the Guitar Hero/Rock Band/Band Hero guitars.
:D :roll:
You can use those with osu! for taiko.

Plug it in then use Xpadder to bind it to your keys.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Hmm

We would need pretty serious note patterns for this mode

Anyone who is decent at DJMAX Trilogy would be so pro at this with or without the help of the right skin, and even the most difficult songs on either standard or Taiko would be FCed effortlessly by many.

Nice idea, though. osu! would really become a all-round rhythm game with this mode.
Jerrysr
96 posts
Joined August 2008
Jerrysr
I like this :)
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
More details:

If the difficulty stars identify the map as Easy, only 3 buttons are used.
If the difficulty stars identify the map as Normal, 4 buttons are used.
If the difficulty stars identify the map as Hard or higher, all 5 buttons are used.

Hitsounds would translate to multiple button patterns as follows:
 Normal: *
Whistle: *..*
 Finish: **
   Clap: *.*
     WF: ***
     WC: **.*
     FC: *.**
    WFC: ****
These patterns are moved left/right (and possibly wrap?) according to the object placement rules:

For objects with New Combo markers, their column placement is chosen in absolute screen terms.
For all other objects, their column placement is decided relative to the placement (and distance) of the previous object.
In both cases, up/right correspond to placement further right and down/left correspond to placement further left.

When moving left, WhistleClap and FinishClap patterns are reversed to preserve symmetry.
The hitsound patterns will be changed for Easy to fit within 3 buttons and not overuse multiples.
Fuuko
486 posts
Joined June 2009
Fuuko
This looks interesting. I approve of this. Also, I'd be pro.

To complete, I'd like to say that special modes makes osu! a really wonderful game, because it's less boring when you have three different modes to play, with so many songs. Adding a new mode will make it even more fun.
GabrielRKF
992 posts
Joined September 2008
GabrielRKF
I don't really like having more spceial modes on osu! but this is a good idea~
Gens
osu! Alumni
3,485 posts
Joined August 2008
Gens
osu! is a rhythm game based on the gameplay of a variety of popular commercial rhythm games.
This would totally make more sense with more modes. I like it~
GabrielRKF
992 posts
Joined September 2008
GabrielRKF
one question: How to stream? ._.
I think that should be able to use 8 letters to play. Something like Z=B=hit, X=N=clap, C=M=whistle, V=<=sliders, maybe?
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish

roxkyuubiforever wrote:

one question: How to stream? ._.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Likewise, if a stack is too quick (1/4s or 1/3s sound about right), the notes, which otherwise would be found on the same button, will be made to alternate between two adjacent buttons.
-SiN-
osu! Alumni
1,722 posts
Joined May 2008
-SiN-
its almost like this

DJ Mix tour - iPhone



Hip hop allstar - iPhone



BIG problem if this mode implemented in PC is....
4 buttons is toooooooooooooooooooo easy
i was a pro O2jammer so i know about this


so i suggest with 7 buttons.. combined version of Hip hop allstar and DJ Mix Tour's center button
Curisu
2,241 posts
Joined January 2010
Curisu
I think 5 keys is suitable……
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
I do think there would be some benefit to having more than 5 keys, if we are to incorporate both MM201's relative-directional-movement idea and his hitsound-based-chords idea. It would be tough to have both of those working very effectively within only a 5-button spread.
Guy-kun
770 posts
Joined December 2009
Guy-kun

MetalMario201 wrote:

More details:

If the difficulty stars identify the map as Easy, only 3 buttons are used.
If the difficulty stars identify the map as Normal, 4 buttons are used.
If the difficulty stars identify the map as Hard or higher, all 5 buttons are used.
Watch that not every keyboard supports 5 button presses at ones, some old ones may have problems
-SiN-
osu! Alumni
1,722 posts
Joined May 2008
-SiN-

Guy-kun wrote:

MetalMario201 wrote:

More details:

If the difficulty stars identify the map as Easy, only 3 buttons are used.
If the difficulty stars identify the map as Normal, 4 buttons are used.
If the difficulty stars identify the map as Hard or higher, all 5 buttons are used.
Watch that not every keyboard supports 5 button presses at ones, some old ones may have problems
its their problem. but...
at least common keyboard works 9 buttons from left shift (personal experience)
left shift - z - x - c - v - b - n - m
Last edited by -SiN- , edited 1 time in total.
GabrielRKF
992 posts
Joined September 2008
GabrielRKF
5 is enough, imo
Guy-kun
770 posts
Joined December 2009
Guy-kun

-SiN- wrote:

its their problem. but...
Well osu isn't really about 'its your problem you can't play', it should be compatible for most people... We don't have DirectX, and for those unable to use it its 'their problem'
at least common keyboard works 9 buttons from left shift (personal experience)
My laptop does 4.
left shift - z - x - c - v - b - n - m
-SiN-
osu! Alumni
1,722 posts
Joined May 2008
-SiN-

Guy-kun wrote:

-SiN- wrote:

its their problem. but...
Well osu isn't really about 'its your problem you can't play', it should be compatible for most people... We don't have DirectX, and for those unable to use it its 'their problem'
at least common keyboard works 9 buttons from left shift (personal experience)
My laptop does 4.
left shift - z - x - c - v - b - n - m
its your problem.. do i said "laptop"?
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
Even if the game had a 9-button mode or whatever, you wouldn't be pressing more than 3 of them at once at any given time
-SiN-
osu! Alumni
1,722 posts
Joined May 2008
-SiN-

LuigiHann wrote:

Even if the game had a 9-button mode or whatever, you wouldn't be pressing more than 3 of them at once at any given time
true..
Bemani map rarely have 7 note pressed at once, and this is osu!.. would make this 4 buttons at once ( better than all of them)
James
osu! Hall of Famer
4,371 posts
Joined January 2008
James
pretty sure this was *kinda* discussed before

like ctb falling notes but instead of catching it, you need to press buttons
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
I vote 6 keys P:
DJPop
osu! Alumni
3,549 posts
Here since the beginning
DJPop

James wrote:

pretty sure this was *kinda* discussed before

like ctb falling notes but instead of catching it, you need to press buttons

+9000
Fuuko
486 posts
Joined June 2009
Fuuko

DJPop wrote:

James wrote:

pretty sure this was *kinda* discussed before

like ctb falling notes but instead of catching it, you need to press buttons

+9000
IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite

Fuuko wrote:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND
Read again; How can something be over 9000 when it's exactly 9000?
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

Azure_Kyte wrote:

Fuuko wrote:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND
Read again; How can something be over 9000 when it's exactly 9000?
UBER N00B PWNAGE
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann

Azure_Kyte wrote:

Fuuko wrote:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND
Read again; How can something be over 9000 when it's exactly 9000?
DJpop added 9000 to a number that was already greater than 0
Sir Minelli
524 posts
Joined September 2008
Sir Minelli

-SiN- wrote:

Bemani map rarely have 7 note pressed at once, and this is osu!.. would make this 4 buttons at once ( better than all of them)
Not every keyboard supports having that many keys pressed at the same time anyways.
Actually only gaming keyboards or so.
-SiN-
osu! Alumni
1,722 posts
Joined May 2008
-SiN-

Sir Minelli wrote:

-SiN- wrote:

Bemani map rarely have 7 note pressed at once, and this is osu!.. would make this 4 buttons at once ( better than all of them)
Not every keyboard supports having that many keys pressed at the same time anyways.
Actually only gaming keyboards or so.
JESUS!!!

-SiN- wrote:

at least common keyboard works 9 buttons from left shift (personal experience)
left shift - z - x - c - v - b - n - m
DJPop
osu! Alumni
3,549 posts
Here since the beginning
DJPop

-SiN- wrote:

at least common keyboard works 9 buttons from left shift (personal experience)
left shift - z - x - c - v - b - n - m
I prefer this key set :D

A S E F _____ J I L :

My keyboard can do it >:D
-SiN-
osu! Alumni
1,722 posts
Joined May 2008
-SiN-
well.. customizable key is a must :p
Aoitenshi
711 posts
Joined February 2009
Aoitenshi
Every key used in-game can be customized right? In options, It would looks dumb if it can't,
zero_kirby
11 posts
Joined December 2009
zero_kirby
cool concept..
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Aoitenshi wrote:

Every key used in-game can be customized right? In options, It would looks dumb if it can't,
Obviously you can use custom bindings, just like Taiko.
GabrielRKF
992 posts
Joined September 2008
GabrielRKF

MetalMario201 wrote:

Likewise, if a stack is too quick (1/4s or 1/3s sound about right), the notes, which otherwise would be found on the same button, will be made to alternate between two adjacent buttons.
Hum... I don't think that's a good idea.
I think that it's ok with a triple stream using a single hitsound. But if there is a Normal-Normal-Clap triple stream? The clap hitsound would be just rejected and considered as a Normal?
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Normal-Normal-Clap ->
..*..
...*.
..*.*

...or something along those lines.
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34
What is the difference between this and Taiko other than the design?
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite
Multiple buttons as opposed to two, a more "bemani" experience.

Nice Necro, by the way.
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