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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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Yutsuten
13 posts
Joined May 2013
Yutsuten

- DT - wrote:

The only thing that doesn't make sense here is the obsolete scoring system letting more pp-giving scores to be surpassed by less pp-giving scores.
And how what you said would be converted to code? Multiply pp by zero if there is a single combo break?
Hopefully, the best solution has already been said:

koromo wrote:

Easiest solution would be to switch to a pp based ranking system on maps or something I think. It's kinda weird how our rank itself is determined by pp, yet scoreboards still rely on the ancient scoring system.
Makes all sense. pp is not about "you must be full accuracy" or "you must be full combo", but a combination of them. That's what pp is doing right now. So the wrong here is the scoreboard that only consider the best score (and not the best pp) to keep on the server.
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger

mattkun7 wrote:

- DT - wrote:

The only thing that doesn't make sense here is the obsolete scoring system letting more pp-giving scores to be surpassed by less pp-giving scores.
And how what you said would be converted to code? Multiply pp by zero if there is a single combo break?
Err...

If A > B
then use A
else use B
DT-sama
190 posts
Joined October 2013
DT-sama
http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/119955854542
- Rework the scoring system (and mod boni) to be strongly correlated with pp while still remaining simple.
This was 5 months ago though...
E m i
E m i
increase acc pp for high od low acc (95-98%) and low od high acc (100%)
pls :(
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079
High OD sliders seem to be extremely underrated by the pp system considering they are harder to hit because of the smaller follow circles :?
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
When you miss twice and 3% is taken off your max pp twice, is that 94% or 94.09%
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

Kheldragar wrote:

When you miss twice and 3% is taken off your max pp twice, is that 94% or 94.09%
94.09
Ziassan
56 posts
Joined May 2010
Ziassan
I think it was discussed before but Double Time really gives insane amount of pp sometimes even given the difficulty. I mean for an equivalent difficulty between an easier song with DT and another harder song without DT, the DT seems more worth it.

I don't really like playing DT because it ruins a bit the song, but given how everyone's top rank was filled with DT everywhere, I tried one, and it directly went #1 in my PP list far away all the others, not even a FC, with like 5 tries. It really didn't feel harder than non DT songs I did before, but the difference was just that huge.
Maybe it's not the case for all the maps and that I've yet not enough experience to judge that but well, I really felt the difference in pp/difficulty.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
plsno not my dt
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Dt is weird with acc since od7 becomes od9 yet I can maintain 96%+? I can hardly 95% od8 so idgi
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

Kheldragar wrote:

Dt is weird with acc since od7 becomes od9 yet I can maintain 96%+? I can hardly 95% od8 so idgi
Because it's easier to acc on faster tempos at the same hitwindow, just because you have less room for errors

also OD doesn't get increased by DT
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

GoldenWolf wrote:

also OD doesn't get increased by DT
saying that is only going to confuse people. it decreases the hit window so in essence it's the same as increasing OD.
E m i
E m i
OD7 DT is not OD9.
OD7 DT has the same time window as OD9.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
and why do we need to make that distinction?
E m i
E m i

GoldenWolf wrote:

OD doesn't get increased by DT
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

GoldenWolf wrote:

Kheldragar wrote:

Dt is weird with acc since od7 becomes od9 yet I can maintain 96%+? I can hardly 95% od8 so idgi
Because it's easier to acc on faster tempos at the same hitwindow, just because you have less room for errors

also OD doesn't get increased by DT
The osu client tells me it does and apparently pp gets calculated as if it's OD9?
DT-sama
190 posts
Joined October 2013
DT-sama
Saying that OD7 DT isn't OD9 is pointless.
pp takes that OD7 DT = OD9, which is true for the hit windows of 300s, but if it took OD7 DT's actual hit windows for 100s and 50s, non-SS scores would give more pp compared to the same OD9 scores, because they are actually narrower than nomod OD9:
OD9 is 24ms/66ms/108ms, OD7 DT is 24ms/54ms/85ms, which makes it harder to get 100s in OD7 DT than OD10 (58ms), and harder to hit the notes at all compared to an hypothetical nomod OD11 (88ms).

What makes OD7 DT "easier" is that AR8 DT maps usually have easier patterns with less overlaps and easier rhythms than nomod OD9 maps, which have more complex patterns, rhythms, and have lower AR to begin with.
Also, nomod OD9's wider hit windows means that the notes' hit windows overlap more, which makes it harder to recover from misreads and misaims.
E m i
E m i
doesn't matter to me, i can get ~90 unstable rate nomod and ~135 unstable rate DT... but there aren't many OD9 nomod maps :(
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Solution: Learn HDHR.
E m i
E m i
>tfw pp doesn't recognize that cs5.2 and ar10 makes acc harder
>tfw can get 98.5-99.5% od10 if i memorize the map but too hard to fc
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

[ Momiji ] wrote:

>tfw pp doesn't recognize that cs5.2 and ar10 makes acc harder
>tfw can get 98.5-99.5% od10 if i memorize the map but too hard to fc
How AR affects the difficulty of getting good accuracy is pretty subjective.

For me, if a map is very simple to read, then AR10 is easier to get good acc than lower AR; otherwise, AR9 is easier.
E m i
E m i
Yeah, I meant in my specific case. I guess I'm just made for DT, acc>speed>aim 8-)
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Learn HRDT
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
give me cs0 od20 maps
Chuiya
38 posts
Joined July 2014
Chuiya
:)
L Hime
9 posts
Joined January 2013
L Hime

Default wrote:

High OD sliders seem to be extremely underrated by the pp system considering they are harder to hit because of the smaller follow circles :?
Came here to write this but it seems someone beat me to it.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
ive been playing this game for 5 years and i never even noticed that.
that's how important it is for pp calculations.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

[ Momiji ] wrote:

doesn't matter to me, i can get ~90 unstable rate nomod and ~135 unstable rate DT... but there aren't many OD9 nomod maps :(
For the same play the unstable rate is 50% higher when playing with DT since it warps time directly. So 90 nomod is exactly the same as 135 with DT. Your numbers check out. :p
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079

silmarilen wrote:

ive been playing this game for 5 years and i never even noticed that.
that's how important it is for pp calculations.
Try playing slider-heavy maps with hr hand you'll notice it.
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog

Default wrote:

High OD sliders seem to be extremely underrated by the pp system considering they are harder to hit because of the smaller follow circles :?
Do you mean high cs sliders? The current difficulty algorithm treats them as identical to fast sliders, essentially (all maps are scaled to the same cs, which elongates the slider), which in general are underrated, yes.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
he does mean OD
which means that the minimum movement required would have to take that into account which means OD would effect star rating.

It does bring up an interesting question though, what does the current algorithm consider the easier possible movement? Does it always assume OD0 sliders?
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

Default wrote:

High OD sliders seem to be extremely underrated by the pp system considering they are harder to hit because of the smaller follow circles :?
Are you sure OD affects the follow circles? I couldn't notice any difference even when comparing OD0 with OD10.
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog
Yeah, I can't see a difference either. OD technically *should* affect star rating anyway, since low OD allows you to hit early on an easy note to give yourself extra time for a hard jump or fast stream immediately following it. This is even more true given that star rating is supposed to be the physical difficulty associated with SSing a map (you lose aim and speed pp for accuracy < 100) and hit windows for a 300 vary pretty significantly between OD10 and OD0, for example.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

Kheldragar wrote:

Learn HRDT
Thanks I will
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079

GhostFrog wrote:

Do you mean high cs sliders? The current difficulty algorithm treats them as identical to fast sliders, essentially (all maps are scaled to the same cs, which elongates the slider), which in general are underrated, yes.

Herp derp, GhostFrog's right, OD does not affect the minimun movement required, CS does :o


OD just makes the hit window more harsh, so I guess a combination of high CS and OD is what makes them hard with hr
WolfCoder
182 posts
Joined June 2009
WolfCoder
I don't know, I've only ever noticed the slider window being smaller when the hitobjects themselves get smaller (which also happens with HR on). Usually they're actually kind of large and I still manage to somehow mess them up (I play too emphatically, but it is too fun not to).
Wickedsharkz
55 posts
Joined December 2014
Wickedsharkz
sometimes i don't get pp for playing. (the map is on my level, if you know what i mean), and that's just... argh gawd!! Fc after 12 retries and no pp?!

P.S I'm playing online...
[- Melqart -]
13 posts
Joined June 2014
[- Melqart -]

Wickedsharkz wrote:

sometimes i don't get pp for playing. (the map is on my level, if you know what i mean), and that's just... argh gawd!! Fc after 12 retries and no pp?!

P.S I'm playing online...

Currently the PP system isn't working for whatever reason, but you're not the only one that has the problem, so just be patient and wait untill it's fixed.

edit: I gained PP, so it seems to work again.
WolfCoder
182 posts
Joined June 2009
WolfCoder
I just perfect'd a map above my level with good accuracy but mysteriously didn't get any PP again. It still randomly doesn't update.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
Oh my God.
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