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Allow to use different Approach Rates in map

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +1,210
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Reyvateil
Just making a tl;dr of why I don't give support to this, keep in mind this is my opinion and feel free to disagree...

The idea is awesome, I would love to see it in many maps and think it would be very cool to play, but the thing called Hard Rock make all of this pretty pointless because of the AR10 cap imposed by the system, HR basically makes AR>=7 go up to 10 (or very close to it, in AR7 case) making the whole mapper work pointless. The mapper have all the work to time the song, select a lower AR specifically for that slow part, which probably won't be bellow 7 because of the current mapping meta, then a player do not like that change and just throw the HR mod and everything is AR10 making it somewhat similar to constant BPM speed mods in Stepmania.

HR with the current maps is just a bad designed mod, it basically throws 99% of insane maps to CS5/OD10/AR10, just because there are caps for both AR and OD without the Double Time mod (and even the DT have a cap too), which is pretty ironic because you can have negative AR with the Easy and Half-time mods. And since this mod cannot be removed or redesigned without completely destroying the current ranking/scoring system, this "different Approach Rates in a map" request would be just another bad design piled up into this.

It would be really cool to play a map built like this, like Zarerion said in his post, AR, BPM, SV and snapping distance are mainly what make the feeling of the map, the variable AR could help to build an even better feeling if well executed, but in the end it's just unfair if some people are competing by using a fixed speed (AR10 with HR) the whole map long.
Gigo
Bump!

I was just about to make a request for this, but then I decided to save the mods some time and search for a similar request and what do you know... I found one! :P

Anyway, i think this feature would be really useful and it will add a new level of variety to maps.
[Luanny]
bump! please.. this needs some more discussion
onotoleonide
ar should get bpm multiplier
FXD
[Luanny]
^are you serious?
quaternary
Not so sure about sudden changes, but being able to set a start and end point would work quite well (think - what deltamax does for tempo, you should be able to do to AR)
e.g. in the timing panel, if you set AR7 at 0ms and AR9 at 10000ms, it should be AR8 at 5000ms, AR8.5 at 7500ms, etc.

Oh, I think I made this more confusing. Oops.
RatedNC17
for me i think it could increase when a higher BPM is in effect and/or slider velocity increases/decreases
[Luanny]
now I understand why it got kinda denied. The idea is good but your reasons/way to do it are just...
ugh, just not the way to do it.
Kevin Lichterinck
Will this result in maps with AR10 and a section of 2X approaching circle ~~
Alarido
It seems to be a good idea (: but ONLY in real BPM changes. Thus, it would be available just for red lines (that ones that set BPM sections). And such things feels doing work well on drastic BPM changes only. Or in gradual increasing/decreasing BPMs.
Anonym
i don´t think this may aproved,imagine, 3 hits with diferents ARs,It´s like put a normal and a insane map in the same map,If this go to osu i may be only allowed to Insane maps
Bara-
I like this
For calm parts you can use 7.5-8, and for faster parts you can use 9-10 (For example Yousei Teikoku - Wahrheit)
Also this would work well for marathoncompilations and such :D
Mismagius
now that I look at it again, the only useful thing about this seems to be marathons or songs that heavily change their style.
Kibbleru

Blue Dragon wrote:

now that I look at it again, the only useful thing about this seems to be marathons or songs that heavily change their style.
yeah, especially for song compilations where there is a heavy change in bpm, the ability to change AR to that will be definitely useful.

although, i CAN see people abusing this function though and there will need to be new set rules in order to prevent that.
Rokk
I'm rather torn on this one. This could potentially be very bad if it was abused. Should be used very sparingly, and only if very appropriate. Would throw me off even more than SB's suddenly starting to strobe.
Gumpy
4 years...
Stefan

Kibbleru wrote:

Blue Dragon wrote:

now that I look at it again, the only useful thing about this seems to be marathons or songs that heavily change their style.
yeah, especially for song compilations where there is a heavy change in bpm, the ability to change AR to that will be definitely useful.

although, i CAN see people abusing this function though and there will need to be new set rules in order to prevent that.
We could set a rule where it's only allowed to use this for Compilations with at least four different songs. To prevent this being used in normal maps.
Granger

Stefan wrote:

We could set a rule where it's only allowed to use this for Compilations with at least four different songs. To prevent this being used in normal maps.
4 different songs doesnt make sense, it should be min 2 different songs at a BPM difference that calls for different ARs. Or maybe just a high enough BPM change in one beatmap.

Imagine a "compilation" with one 100 BPM song and one 300 BPM song, on the other hand, 4 different songs all within the 200-250 bpm range probably dont need different ARs.

Also speaking only with ctb gameplay in mind, i think various BPMs in one map, for instance a series of stong beats falling faster than other weaker beats would be fun.
Stefan

Granger wrote:

Stefan wrote:

We could set a rule where it's only allowed to use this for Compilations with at least four different songs. To prevent this being used in normal maps.
4 different songs doesnt make sense, it should be min 2 different songs at a BPM difference that calls for different ARs. Or maybe just a high enough BPM change in one beatmap.

Imagine a "compilation" with one 100 BPM song and one 300 BPM song, on the other hand, 4 different songs all within the 200-250 bpm range probably dont need different ARs.
That's actually common sense to notice a difference between 200-250 and 100-300 BPM so people probably won't change the AR every 30 seconds in case the song changes after 30 seconds.
Granger

Stefan wrote:

Granger wrote:

4 different songs doesnt make sense, it should be min 2 different songs at a BPM difference that calls for different ARs. Or maybe just a high enough BPM change in one beatmap.

Imagine a "compilation" with one 100 BPM song and one 300 BPM song, on the other hand, 4 different songs all within the 200-250 bpm range probably dont need different ARs.
That's actually common sense to notice a difference between 200-250 and 100-300 BPM so people probably won't change the AR every 30 seconds in case the song changes after 30 seconds.
Right, however thats not the point i want to make, i am saying that your rule wording wouldnt allow a compilation with 100/300 BPM and 2 songs to use this, while this is one of the few things where different ARs would be usefull.
Lin-Kun
I... don't know about this... it could also be used in osu! mania though, sorta like freezes and slow downs in DDR.
Flower
A good example from other game: Tone sphere. The AR-changed note has a special effect to make player distinguish it from normal notes.

The ranking criteria will be very hard to amend according to this change.
Kodora

Stefan wrote:

We could set a rule where it's only allowed to use this for Compilations with at least four different songs. To prevent this being used in normal maps.
Dont forget that some songs may have really extreme bpm jumps by themselves.

Example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/169858

I can't find any single AR working great here.
Vuelo Eluko

Kitsunemimi wrote:

No because if we had this, it would be totally disorienting and unnecessary.
Mania players get along fine with it.
ikzune
the way i see it is people make ar the way they want it for a reason when making their map, you dont really need to edit ar for standard osu and ctb mods like that, i think only in mania currently changing ar is something that should remain, this in other modes would be like taking the difficulty out of a map where as in mania its just for different playstyles honestly two ways i belive it should go is either this gets implemented and you get score deduction for using lower ar maybe even a higher score for higher ar or this doesnt get implemented and you can simply edit a song and make it unranked quickly
Bara-

laishiou wrote:

the way i see it is people make ar the way they want it for a reason when making their map, you dont really need to edit ar for standard osu and ctb mods like that, i think only in mania currently changing ar is something that should remain, this in other modes would be like taking the difficulty out of a map where as in mania its just for different playstyles honestly two ways i belive it should go is either this gets implemented and you get score deduction for using lower ar maybe even a higher score for higher ar or this doesnt get implemented and you can simply edit a song and make it unranked quickly
Lolwut?
It's for the mapper ya know?
That they be able to switch AR between parts
Not for a player who wants to get other AR

Also, I think you can only use it in compilations or maps with big changes (Wahrheit, deltaMAX etc.)
Also, limit to 1.5 change to prevent abuse
So for insanes it's between 8 and 9.5. if you set an ar, you can only change it not too much
Drafura
Would be the best feature for std and ctb to implement.
formi
This will make sight-reading nearly impossible,
please don't make standard maps even more weird!
haha5957

formi wrote:

This will make sight-reading nearly impossible,
please don't make standard maps even more weird!

I don't undersstand, you can already troll with SV and AR10 or whatever you might think, but those kind of maps are just UNRANKABLE and will not be ranked in any future unless it makes sense. Don't add cuz it will make sightreading impossible? well, they will not be ranked if it is not sightreadable.


Don't imagine super random AR changing maps will get ranked, they will not be, but this would be great feature with some maps that have calm moment but 9 or higher AR.

think of begining parts of image material, they honestly feel very terrible untill it gets to actual "hard" parts
Natteke desu
honestly it will be interesting, but with that thing RC should be changed(deeply changed immo), moreover, it's a huge chance of overusing or inappropriate using of that. Also player should be warned about ar change for sure (some kind of flashy effect for example) what can be a reason of fps drop and blame
well, as player i'd say no, but as mapper... it will be really cool gear to emphazising things
drum drum

EvilElvis wrote:

honestly it will be interesting, but with that thing RC should be changed(deeply changed immo), moreover, it's a huge chance of overusing or inappropriate using of that. Also player should be warned about ar change for sure (some kind of flashy effect for example) what can be a reason of fps drop and blame
well, as player i'd say no, but as mapper... it will be really cool gear to emphazising things
...but as a player...
[Kami]
Support this!!
BlackMidKnight
But I guess when the AR is changed, if implemented, the score multiplier must be also. Just like changing the keys on o!m (4K, 5K, 6K...)
Granger

BlackMidKnight wrote:

But I guess when the AR is changed, if implemented, the score multiplier must be also. Just like changing the keys on o!m (4K, 5K, 6K...)
Why should the multiplier change if the mapper decides to use different ARs in a map? Whats the point?
Bara-
Bump
I just came across this searching for an other thread
Time to bring this back up
GhostFrog
As nice as this would be (and it really would be nice), I'm afraid of what it would do to ranked maps if implemented. Ever since Toumei Elegy was dq'd because AR9.5 was deemed too low for it, I have no doubts that something like this would just be used as an excuse to force ranked maps to use excessively high AR in unfitting places. So...I *kinda* want this request to be implemented, but tbh I really don't :(

As a more clear summary of my feelings about this: Yes, please give this to us, it is a really good thing, but please also fix the ranking system to prevent this from sucking.
Dephix
Yes pls
DropPopCandy
I think a change in AR mid-song would be highly disorienting
shioty
No!

It can confuse players and give them lack of reactions
Bara-
Guys
Isn't it kinda obvious that maps which overuse it and get unreadable can NEVER get ranked?
Also, you disagree with slight changes (8-10), but it's fine for mania. If it's fine there, why can't it be here as well?
Also, huge SV changes are fine, but small AR changes are not? What the heck
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