Waryas wrote:

Too clustered. Ar10 is the easiest.to pass

For you maybe, but not for those who can't see that fast.

This is all individual.

Hence why i say AR difficulty is subjective and you can't give scores based on AR.

Being able to play low AR is a skill, high ar is a skill too, you can't make one give different score than the other.
OD on the other hand is different, low OD is easy for everyone, high OD is hard, hence why it gives more point.

Waryas wrote:

Hence why i say AR difficulty is subjective and you can't give scores based on AR.

Being able to play low AR is a skill, high ar is a skill too, you can't make one give different score than the other.
OD on the other hand is different, low OD is easy for everyone, high OD is hard, hence why it gives more point.

Excellent point! Somebody write this down, give this to peppy or something.

Wait. I just realised that I posted my opinion on the wrong thread. I apologize for the whole misunderstanding .___.

What an awful idea.
Most people who support this don't relaise how bad is this and how confusing will be this.

TheNutritiousGuy wrote:

What an awful idea.
Most people who support this don't relaise how bad is this and how confusing will be this.

As if the beatmapper knows what's best for the player.. lol

This would be awesome for compilation maps... but that's about it, other than a few other niche cases where the song completely changes rhythm partway through. Not worth implementing for the less than 1% of maps that would use it correctly.

This is, as much as people are hating it, a pretty good idea. However just letting people pick new difficulty settings mid song sucks so how about a timing section where you adjust the slider speed also adjusts the AR? Create a tickable box like "Inherit timing sections" or "3/4 time" that says "Inherit AR"

That way excessive use becomes tedious to make, and also goes par with an increase in slider speed which makes it generally harder to implement for difficulty alone without the map itself becoming a clusterfuck cesspool, thus ugly, thus unrankable.

Making a new feature hard to work with is not the best solution, but for the one or two maps that need it, REALLY REALLY need it, the change should be big enough for it to not be too jarring to change slider speed at the same time. It's a lazy patch-up solution but it's a solution nonetheless, no?

I think it sounds nice, but would be confusing. Mod the HELL out of it, then maybe

I mean, yeah. Why not. Stepmania did it, why wouldn't osu?

The maps would just get a bit more modding if there's any problem.

i see this got bumnped.

in my honest opinion, this literally would be used successfully in like less than 1% of maps, unless people started to map really weirdly timed songs and/or songs with extremely extremely dramatic BPM changes or style changes.

Also, using stepmania, and other rhythm games as an example just doesn't work. First of all because I really hate the notion of saying ,"omg well look this other game/person did it, so why can't we do it?" Like I seriously hate that argument; it's those people who say, "well this map did it on osu! why can't why I do the same thing in my map?" It's not really a legitimate argument. But anyways, secondly, stepmania and other rhythm games function differently in that notes come to a certain position, while in osu! the notes are stationary and approach circles move toward the note. It's very clear to see a change in speed in stepmania, but not as easy in osu!

Nevertheless, this could work, but i'm still leaning toward not supporting just because I don't see much of a use. If it does get implemented, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it to be honest. It's kinda hard to explain what i'm thinking. meh

I don't see this being useful except in multi-BPM maps with breaks in between the AR changes... very rare, I'd say

winber1 wrote:

Also, using stepmania, and other rhythm games as an example just doesn't work. First of all because I really hate the notion of saying ,"omg well look this other game/person did it, so why can't we do it?" Like I seriously hate that argument; it's those people who say, "well this map did it on osu! why can't why I do the same thing in my map?" It's not really a legitimate argument. But anyways, secondly, stepmania and other rhythm games function differently in that notes come to a certain position, while in osu! the notes are stationary and approach circles move toward the note. It's very clear to see a change in speed in stepmania, but not as easy in osu! h

Calm the fuck down, I know how stepmania uses it and I could from there imagine how osu! would use it. Is it really that hard to imagine this?
Even if it's harder to notice the speed changes in osu!, that still wouldn't change much. That's a good thing, right? Melts together better with the beatmap. But I seriously doubt you wouldn't notice the AR changes at all. They're suppose to change for a reason. A new section of the beatmap, a new bpm. There must be some sort of break before you can change the AR. Otherwise it would just cluster-fuck everything.

i think this is a pretty nice idea, if it doesnt play well in a map it will get modded out anyway.

silmarilen wrote:

i think this is a pretty nice idea, if it doesnt play well in a map it will get modded out anyway.

The autism is strong in this one.

Continue to discuss,I won't let this idea go so easy

I'd definitely enjoyed this feature, it will add a lot of variety in mapping, also changing CS - just imagine the possibility for new stream and other patterns, especially mixed with the spacing changes.
We already have changing slider velocity and even multi-BPM maps, so why not? People will adapt to this thing too. It could be used in constant BPM maps too, just for the visual design.

Just make it unranked feature like notes on sliders so only fun maps will be noticed and shitmaps ignored anyway, and when mappers learn to use it good enough to fit the map, slowly make some of those ranked.

Again, why not?

For strong BPM switches: Maybe yes.
For compilations (Marathon Maps): Yes
For the regular use: No. This will be poorly abused and cause just shitstorm.

Stefan wrote:

For strong BPM switches: Maybe yes.
For compilations (Marathon Maps): Yes
For the regular use: No. This will be poorly abused and cause just shitstorm.

Agree.

Too many people would fuck shit up with this randomly.

Let's unrank sliders, there's a potential for abuse and may cause a shitstorm.

How different approach rates would work

"This isn't ok you can't just change between AR 9 and 10 every 4 measures"
"wow killing mapper spirit #r00d"

Like it's an ok idea and I'd like to see it get implemented, as there are a lot of instances where maps would benefit from this

However, it would be like SV changes, where people would be like "haha look at this new feature

lets use it

all the time"

tuddster wrote:

Let's unrank sliders, there's a potential for abuse and may cause a shitstorm.

I think you misunderstood his statement

He's saying that it would be abused moreso than used correctly. Sliders on the other hand are used correctly moreso than abused :3.

There's no point doing it since the circles comes 1 by 1 anyway.
I think this will break the fluidity of the map. Like. Completely. Gosh. No.

I was JUST about to request this.
This thread lives for 3 years, why have I NEVVER seen it?
In any case, I strongly support it.

First of all, EVERYTHING I'm saying now is my own opinion. It's based on my own experiences and my own point of view, please respect that and don't insult me right off the bat.

Why do I want it?

a) BPM changes in a map.
You know, compilations made by users, maps like DeltaMAX or even just normal songs with varying AR.
AR >should be< mostly dependant on the density of objects in a map. If you have more objects, you need higher AR to make reading comfortable. And the higher your BPM, the higher your object density. This is why Banned Forever (high BPM => high density) does not seems comfortable to read for many players, we all agree here, yes?
So imagine you have a track that starts off at around 150 BPM, which, in my opinion, would work well with AR7 depending on the stream spacing n stuff, but then speeds up to 180 or 190. The AR would be far too low then. By using different ARs for different sections we could achieve two things.
First, we gain ARs that actually fit the pacing of the map.
Secondly the change of ARs implies the speedup and thus even helps the reading of said speedups. When you, as a player, see that the next approach circles are faster, you intuitively realize something will happen, and will react better.
EXAMPLE BEATMAP: ginkiha - Oriens [Extra] (Deif)
This song starts at 140 BPM and then goes up to 185. Back when I first played it I had a hard time even understanding what was going on since it's not really a sudden change or anything. It just felt off for me. Granted, I wasn't good at reading maps back then, but if there would have been an AR change in the map, I just might have had a better time reading the speedup.

b) SV changes
I know these days SV changes are kind of a controversial issue, if you do anything that exceeds what some people call "reasonable" it's instantly called abused, unreadable and BAD without second thought.
If AR could be changed according to SV, sudden slowdowns would be easier to read. Why is that? As far as I know, the current speed at which Sliderticks appear depends on the AR. Or rather, if the AR is lower, the slider will appear earlier and thus the sliderticks will appear earlier as well. That means: If you have a slowdown slider which would NOT be "readable" (in fact everything not 2B-style is technically readable, but let's just stick to that term for now) alone, using a lower AR for that AR would make the slider appear earlier, thus make the sliderticks accessible for the player to read faster and enable him to play the slider properly without needing to worry about overshooting it.
EXAMPLE BEATMAP: HujuniseikouyuuP - Sayonara Lechenaultia [Lechenaultia] or [Fay] (qq944364487)
This map uses some 0.5x SV multipliers which are kinda hard to get. A described earlier, variable AR might help for those.

c) Gimmicks
I know I'll get hate for this. But yeah I don't even care.
osu! has exceeded the state of being a simple rhythm game ages ago. By now, many mappers use various gimmicks to make their map more interesting, more challenging, more fun, more enjoyable. That includes weird spacing or SV changes, streamjumps etc. Please, guys, this is not a bad thing. You're free to dislike every gimmicky map but don't call it bad just for that reason. It's simply another form of progress.
Some like those. Others don't. It's subjective. Whether it's playable or not depends on the player's skills, NOT on the map.
I see a LOT of potential for multiple ARs to be used as a gimmick. It's possible to emphasize strong beats in the music or force the player adapt to another pace. Unless you don't change the AR with every circle so that the map will be a total mess, I can imagine this to be very fun and take "reading" to a whole new level.
Obviously, players will need to adapt to this. They are not used to adapting to new AR, let alone playing stuff like AR8 or AR10 at all (mappers putting AR9 on 132 BPM maps... *sigh*)
This would require them to learn a new skill in order to play as many maps as possible, and I can imagine that a lot of people, mappers, modders and players, can be afraid of this. But don't you think it just might be better in the long run? If players learn to play differing ARs they will also have less trouble playing maps that have lower or higher AR than they should have, like Banned Forever or Airman (my opinion, don't kill me. thx)

As for the "This will be abused!" argument: Are you sure? I mean, surely, mappers will try to use such a new feature, and maybe it won't work out just as well as planned, but who of you decides where "abuse" starts? Isn't that term too subjective already?
If something really is just stupid in a way that it makes absolutely no sense, rhythmically or gameplay-wise, we still have modders and BATs who have the opportunity and duty to point out such issues and get rid of them. However I expect mappers, at least the experienced ones, to treat this with caution and not overuse it when it's implemented.

So that's why I want multiple ARs in a map.
Just give new stuff a chance. Try new things, adapt, and make progress. You will notice it is not all bad just because it seemed a little bit off at the beginning.

Just making a tl;dr of why I don't give support to this, keep in mind this is my opinion and feel free to disagree...

The idea is awesome, I would love to see it in many maps and think it would be very cool to play, but the thing called Hard Rock make all of this pretty pointless because of the AR10 cap imposed by the system, HR basically makes AR>=7 go up to 10 (or very close to it, in AR7 case) making the whole mapper work pointless. The mapper have all the work to time the song, select a lower AR specifically for that slow part, which probably won't be bellow 7 because of the current mapping meta, then a player do not like that change and just throw the HR mod and everything is AR10 making it somewhat similar to constant BPM speed mods in Stepmania.

HR with the current maps is just a bad designed mod, it basically throws 99% of insane maps to CS5/OD10/AR10, just because there are caps for both AR and OD without the Double Time mod (and even the DT have a cap too), which is pretty ironic because you can have negative AR with the Easy and Half-time mods. And since this mod cannot be removed or redesigned without completely destroying the current ranking/scoring system, this "different Approach Rates in a map" request would be just another bad design piled up into this.

It would be really cool to play a map built like this, like Zarerion said in his post, AR, BPM, SV and snapping distance are mainly what make the feeling of the map, the variable AR could help to build an even better feeling if well executed, but in the end it's just unfair if some people are competing by using a fixed speed (AR10 with HR) the whole map long.

Bump!

I was just about to make a request for this, but then I decided to save the mods some time and search for a similar request and what do you know... I found one!

Anyway, i think this feature would be really useful and it will add a new level of variety to maps.

bump! please.. this needs some more discussion

ar should get bpm multiplier
FXD

^are you serious?

Not so sure about sudden changes, but being able to set a start and end point would work quite well (think - what deltamax does for tempo, you should be able to do to AR)
e.g. in the timing panel, if you set AR7 at 0ms and AR9 at 10000ms, it should be AR8 at 5000ms, AR8.5 at 7500ms, etc.

Oh, I think I made this more confusing. Oops.

for me i think it could increase when a higher BPM is in effect and/or slider velocity increases/decreases

now I understand why it got kinda denied. The idea is good but your reasons/way to do it are just...
ugh, just not the way to do it.

Will this result in maps with AR10 and a section of 2X approaching circle ~~

It seems to be a good idea (: but ONLY in real BPM changes. Thus, it would be available just for red lines (that ones that set BPM sections). And such things feels doing work well on drastic BPM changes only. Or in gradual increasing/decreasing BPMs.

i don´t think this may aproved,imagine, 3 hits with diferents ARs,It´s like put a normal and a insane map in the same map,If this go to osu i may be only allowed to Insane maps

I like this
For calm parts you can use 7.5-8, and for faster parts you can use 9-10 (For example Yousei Teikoku - Wahrheit)
Also this would work well for marathoncompilations and such

now that I look at it again, the only useful thing about this seems to be marathons or songs that heavily change their style.

Blue Dragon wrote:

now that I look at it again, the only useful thing about this seems to be marathons or songs that heavily change their style.

yeah, especially for song compilations where there is a heavy change in bpm, the ability to change AR to that will be definitely useful.

although, i CAN see people abusing this function though and there will need to be new set rules in order to prevent that.