he is only just getting into the 200pp scores, give him some time.

Getting so happy for a 200pp score when there are players who shit out ~400pp plays daily while still being miles from cookiezi's actual skill level is funny.

thedamntrain wrote:

Getting so happy for a 200pp score when there are players who shit out ~400pp plays daily while still being miles from cookiezi's actual skill level is funny.

l00000l rekt

thedamntrain wrote:

Getting so happy for a 200pp score when there are players who shit out ~400pp plays daily while still being miles from cookiezi's actual skill level is funny.

holy shit dude you have so much hate in you hahaha
although I have to admit,that last post made me chuckle at the very least

f i z i k wrote:

thedamntrain wrote:

Getting so happy for a 200pp score when there are players who shit out ~400pp plays daily while still being miles from cookiezi's actual skill level is funny.

holy shit dude you have so much hate in you hahaha
although I have to admit,that last post made me chuckle at the very least

Stating the truth = so much hate. dafuq?!

You guys do realize he's been here for only 6 months, right ?
Basically, what silmarilen said.


Now @Woob, it's easy to see some people's points though, the thing is... you've already proven that you were able to DT stuff, and that's cool. But your top ranks is just filled of DTs and almost nothing else. (the only non-DT score that currently gives you some PP is your FC on lagomorphic)

This is far from being "normal", and even farther from looking like someone actually trying to become the next Cookiezi.
For example, here's a tiny list of maps that give around 200pp for a (decent) nomod FC :
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/164020?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/150837?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/195305?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/74684?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/341891?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/146985?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/54618 (really high acc required on this one, but the rhythm isn't too intense, good training imo)

As you can see, this is pretty much the kind of FCs people want you to perform, too. Heck, even 190ish FCs would be reassuring. We now are at a point where we're not even sure if you can FC stuff like Remote Control (or not), or just don't bother trying because it "won't give enough pp" anyway. Basically, in the end it just looks like another DT farmer, and people don't want to wait until you'll "hit a wall" to finally play other modes. It's not even sure you'll hit one at all in the end, you might just become another godlike DT player that will most likely never stop to improve at this rate, but that's nowhere near Cookiezi's versatility, right :/

(I didn't even talk about mods yet, I'm not expecting you to randomly pop 200pp scores on mods you """barely""" played, but you should consider play some HR / HD / HDHR someday. At the very least, HR, it's like the main signature of Cookiezi, the proof that your both your aim + acc are getting good)

Cheese wrote:

Stating the truth = so much hate. dafuq?!

What truth, he's been playing for 6 months and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

Seriously, the amount of retardation in this thread is astounding, really a place for people who don't know shit about this game to come up and go "lol no hdhrdt 500 pp scores yet wtf xDDDD". If you think his progression of skill is slow, then you're a dumbass - for what he's been playing with, his progress is really good. The only big thing that's validly questionable is if the final result is really a new Cookiezi, mainly because Cookiezi's approach at this game was entirely different. When he started, he mostly played nomod and HD, and he right away had low AR reading (which was normal at the time, but nowadays it's an important component of skill many players lack). Woobowiz needs to focus on reading and patterns a little more, and I personally don't think it's impossible to do it all later on.

Pacemaker wrote:

Woobowiz needs to focus on reading and patterns a little more, and I personally don't think it's impossible to do it all later on.

this is incredibly true

a way that i learned to read patterns is play with numberless hitcircles and no followpoints, combined with HD
for some reason that worked

Pacemaker wrote:

What truth, he's been playing for 6 months and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

What?


I don't get all the people saying he needs to practice nomod/hr/whatever and that he should stay away from dt because it's all he does, or that he needs to prove that he can play nomod by setting scores. Like Shiro said a while back, dt is good for improvement. He's still far away from Cookiezi-status, he needs to train everything (reading, aim, speed, accuracy), so why does it matter what order he does it in? Dt will help you improve your aim/speed faster than nomod would in most cases, it seems more beneficial for reaching his goal. If anything, he should get edited versions of songs that are high bpm and still challenge aim/speed while also being ar9.

The only benefit that nomod offers compared to dt is that it's harder to read and the patterns generally differ more. As the above posters said, these can be learned more later on. I think that the aim/speed/acc component of reaching Cookiezi status is much harder than the reading aspect.

DT doesn't train reading or aim or accuracy anywhere near as well as HR, plain and simple. DTable maps are far less complex and far less forgiving than no-mod or HR maps of similar star rating. While it's true all of that can be compensated for later, why wouldn't it be preferable to learn fundamentals first and build speed up later?

Pacemaker wrote:

and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

2k and up is a bit too large a range to be called "the best players in the game," don't you think?

Pacemaker wrote:

What truth, he's been playing for 6 months and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

Time has nothing to do with skill. It's the amount of plays. Someone who has played for 2 years with the same playcount should be at the same level as he is.

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

DT doesn't train reading or aim or accuracy anywhere near as well as HR, plain and simple. DTable maps are far less complex and far less forgiving than no-mod or HR maps of similar star rating. While it's true all of that can be compensated for later, why wouldn't it be preferable to learn fundamentals first and build speed up later?

Eh, it may train aim as well. HR has smaller circles but dt has bigger/faster jumps in some cases, it goes either way. Accuracy is true, but dt obviously still helps. HR is better for reading except that it's ar10 which may make you "unlearn" ar9 faster than if you were playing ar8+dt, probably not though.

The part about compensating later is questionable. I agree, building fundamentals (the more important parts) and then building up the less important aspects later on is a good way to go. The thing is, isn't speed part of one of the fundamentals? As I said in my other post, I believe the speed aspect is much harder to obtain than the reading aspect.

I understand the sentiment, but I don't think it's right to think of speed (or stamina) as you would aim, accuracy, or reading since it doesn't really interact with them in the same way they interact with each other. That is to say, speed is generally as simple as turning a knob; all your motions are foundationally identical, you just do them a bit faster.

The other three skills aren't so straightforward in how they interact with each other. Aim is the reliability of your muscle memory to hit an arbitrary location on the screen with your cursor, but without proper reading you won't know where that location is, and without proper hand synchronization you won't click while your cursor is over the note. Accuracy is your ability to synchronize your tapping hand with musical time (hand synchronization is a derivation of this), but again, that ability means nothing if you don't know when and where to click. Reading is your ability to translate osu!'s visual information into muscle movements, but ... etc.

What is speed, then? You could make an argument for speed representing raw movement potential, but I think you'd have a hell of a time explaining and justifying so slippery a concept, so I'd posit that speed is just the ability to do all three of the other skills faster, and that should make the divide fairly obvious. It's both the most fundamental and least fundamental skill.

EDIT: Before we start delving into what is and isn't fundamental and how the various skills interact, it's worth mentioning that aim, accuracy, speed, and reading aren't even foundational; they're the result of interactions between much more basic motor skills like muscle memory, muscle control, hand independence, etc., which can also be broken down further. A huge number of simplifications are made on this topic for the sake of casual conversation, and it doesn't help that the new difficulty calculations throw these sorts of words around despite using them in very different contexts than this sort of discussion would. So... tread with care.

I agree with what you said, speed is really just doing stuff faster in essence. You need to have reading in order to aim and you need to have aim in order to tap on the note, which ties in with accuracy. Speed is just doing all of this quickly, really.

The way I like to see it as is that there's a bunch of skills needed to be "Cookiezi status". For simplicity, the skills are divided into speed/aim/acc/reading because it's quite easy to define these skills and everyone knows what they are. You will eventually have to play dt to reach the speed aspect, also the reading aspect (ar10.3). You will also eventually have to play nomod to be able to read as good as Cookiezi, which includes ar8. Aim and accuracy can come from playing either dt/nomod/hr but are probably best improved by playing hr. In the end, everything will need to be practised, so does it really matter what order it's in?

I don't think the order is too important. As long as he does eventually practise everything and doesn't just play dt forever, lol.

Sure, I just think it's easier to learn how to do things first then work on doing them faster rather than perfecting a few things then trying to learn more.

Pacemaker wrote:

Cheese wrote:

Stating the truth = so much hate. dafuq?!

The only big thing that's validly questionable is if the final result is really a new Cookiezi, mainly because Cookiezi's approach at this game was entirely different. When he started, he mostly played nomod and HD, and he right away had low AR reading (which was normal at the time, but nowadays it's an important component of skill many players lack). Woobowiz needs to focus on reading and patterns a little more, and I personally don't think it's impossible to do it all later on.

I couldn't agree more. cookie had 4 years to learn every aspect of the game with different standards compared to nowadays. When woobwoob would play some AR7 nonmod DjPop maps or really old maps, people would probably start hating, that he needs to challenge himself with speed or higher ar. So no matter what he does, bitches always gonna bitch.



This thread should still getting closed tho

[-Cloud-] wrote:

This thread should still getting closed tho

what's the point of locking it? it already has 89 pages and people are eager to see woobowiz's progression. it's not like anything new is discussed in G&R anyways. unlike the other blog-like threads that have died or are dying atm, this one's still active

Noobsicle, when have you seen a German poster not being a douche canoe?
just leave it

Noobsicle wrote:

[-Cloud-] wrote:

This thread should still getting closed tho

what's the point of locking it? it already has 89 pages and people are eager to see woobowiz's progression. it's not like anything new is discussed in G&R anyways. unlike the other blog-like threads that have died or are dying atm, this one's still active

Because it's nothign different to Threads like "Oh look my video, I did that run" and "Am I good enough for my rank". It's attentionwhoring and besides that, people here are doing nothing but bitching about eachother or shitposting (Atleast you see this more than constructive discussions).

Riince wrote:

Noobsicle, when have you seen a German poster not being a douche canoe?
just leave it

Because I think this thread is pretty much unnecessary, I'm a douche? Get real. I'm just stating my opinion. And with your comment about germans you're more rude and douche than me.

[-Cloud-] wrote:

This thread should still getting closed tho

Don't click on it if you don't want to read about it lol. It's something different and a lot of people like seeing his progress.

Rewben2 wrote:

[-Cloud-] wrote:

This thread should still getting closed tho

Don't click on it if you don't want to read about it lol. It's something different and a lot of people like seeing his progress.

Nah. A thread like this shouldn't be tolerated in my opinion. And I'm not that kind of guy who keeps his mouth shut and looks away.

tokaku wrote:

Pacemaker wrote:

What truth, he's been playing for 6 months and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

Time has nothing to do with skill. It's the amount of plays. Someone who has played for 2 years with the same playcount should be at the same level as he is.

NarrillNezzurh has half the plays of Woobowiz and he is 1.1K rank. Your argument is invalid. On top of that his scores are HDHR scores. Much Swag, Very impressive, so Skill.

[-Cloud-] wrote:

Nah. A thread like this shouldn't be tolerated in my opinion. And I'm not that kind of guy who keeps his mouth shut and looks away.

it fits the criteria dood
and you're 89 pages too late lol
edit: 90*
edit2: woooooooahhhhhhhh 1337 posts in this thread grats!!

It's still a forum, not a blog. It would be cool, if ppy would creat a section for this.

tokaku wrote:

Pacemaker wrote:

What truth, he's been playing for 6 months and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

Time has nothing to do with skill. It's the amount of plays. Someone who has played for 2 years with the same playcount should be at the same level as he is.

that's also wrong, many people have 3x plays of other players yet less experience *aka playing maps to 100% or fc, so retrying right away etc.

Sorry about people misunderstanding the first line of my post, I was referring to this

thedamntrain wrote:

Getting so happy for a 200pp score when there are players who shit out ~400pp plays daily while still being miles from cookiezi's actual skill level is funny.

[-Cloud-] wrote:

attentionwhoring

Starting a project and showing others your progress = Attentionwhoring ? Stop using words you don't know the meaning of, pls.

tokaku wrote:

Pacemaker wrote:

What truth, he's been playing for 6 months and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

Time has nothing to do with skill. It's the amount of plays. Someone who has played for 2 years with the same playcount should be at the same level as he is.

Duckk wrote:

that's also wrong, many people have 3x plays of other players yet less experience *aka playing maps to 100% or fc, so retrying right away etc.

Neither one is entirely accurate. They're statistics.

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Pacemaker wrote:

[-Cloud-] wrote:

attentionwhoring

Starting a project and showing others your progress = Attentionwhoring ? Stop using words you don't know the meaning of, pls.

He stated, that he also did this thread for his ego. Did you even read the thread?

w/e

[-Cloud-] wrote:

He stated, that he also did this thread for his ego.

That's what most people do who start big projects, what exactly is unusual about that? Your definiton of attentionwhoring is still wrong

that's still not attention whoring
i mean where's all the oppai at

Pacemaker wrote:

Cheese wrote:

Stating the truth = so much hate. dafuq?!

What truth, he's been playing for 6 months and he's being compared to the best players in the game.

Seriously, the amount of retardation in this thread is astounding, really a place for people who don't know shit about this game to come up and go "lol no hdhrdt 500 pp scores yet wtf xDDDD". If you think his progression of skill is slow, then you're a dumbass - for what he's been playing with, his progress is really good. The only big thing that's validly questionable is if the final result is really a new Cookiezi, mainly because Cookiezi's approach at this game was entirely different. When he started, he mostly played nomod and HD, and he right away had low AR reading (which was normal at the time, but nowadays it's an important component of skill many players lack). Woobowiz needs to focus on reading and patterns a little more, and I personally don't think it's impossible to do it all later on.

6 month or 3 years it doesnt matter its about if you play alot or not. And i never said he was progressng slow? Anyway if he wants to keep lying to himself its fine i guess.

Pacemaker wrote:

[-Cloud-] wrote:

He stated, that he also did this thread for his ego.

That's what most people do who start big projects, what exactly is unusual about that? Your definiton of attentionwhoring is still wrong

When people admit that they're doing it (also) for the attention it begins to be attentionwhoring. Atleast for me.
People are different.

NarrillNezzurh has half the plays of Woobowiz and he is 1.1K rank. Your argument is invalid. On top of that his scores are HDHR scores. Much Swag, Very impressive, so Skill.

Its about hit.

What's more impressive about getting top 1k with 15k plays is the amount of autism in your brain required to play like that. I can imagine these people losing sleep over their playcount/rank ratio.

thedamntrain wrote:

What's more impressive about getting top 1k with 15k plays is the amount of autism in your brain required to play like that. I can imagine these people losing sleep over their playcount/rank ratio.

I like you

[-Cloud-] wrote:

Nah. A thread like this shouldn't be tolerated in my opinion. And I'm not that kind of guy who keeps his mouth shut and looks away.

you heard it here first folks, if he doesn't like it, it needs to be gone, because not clicking a thread is so hard!

hey that sounds like the main argument against gay rights

[-Cloud-] wrote:

It's still a forum, not a blog. It would be cool, if ppy would creat a section for this.

You can request it : https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/4

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

thedamntrain wrote:

autism

You've misspelled "skill."

Since when is playing a metric fuck ton each day skill?

It isn't.

The only thing going for the guy is Play Time to Rank now. Cut him some slack, you can't really change the speed at which you get better, it is kind of a set thing. Those who improve tons in small amounts of plays are lucky to have such a trait others either think or are actually improving at slower rate by virtue( *cough* Lewa *cough*) (I think that word has the opposite meaning but whatevs).