Really up to you. I find I'm more accurate by single tapping but whatever ya want to do if you feel like you're doing fine don't change anything.
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Is it worth switching to single tapping?
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actually he can't anymore because he turned his hand into a paperweightf i z i k wrote:
But...Bikko can do it better?thelewa wrote:
I can SS an OD10 map by alternating
i feel bad for laughing at that
It´s faster to improve with singletapping, it is really difficult to alternate correctly, and by that i mean that you FULLY alternate, and not just when a bunch of notes come together, and some other times you single. Singletapping is way more consistent and simpler to learn, simplicity is good, specially for your brain to get used to. I personally alternated when i first started, but i realised i was doing singletapping sometimes, so it wasn´t really a good style, i was caught in the middle of both. I´d say go singletap.
How is singletapping easier to learn though? When you alternate you know the next note will always be your other finger. When you singletap you gotta think about whether you do need to use your other finger or not. Add onto that the fact that alternating streams when you are a singletapping dude is a completely different set of finger movements being used.Ichi wrote:
It´s faster to improve with singletapping, it is really difficult to alternate correctly, and by that i mean that you FULLY alternate, and not just when a bunch of notes come together, and some other times you single. Singletapping is way more consistent and simpler to learn, simplicity is good, specially for your brain to get used to. I personally alternated when i first started, but i realised i was doing singletapping sometimes, so it wasn´t really a good style, i was caught in the middle of both. I´d say go singletap.
Its like such a roundabout way of playing the game I'm legitimately baffled whenever I see people singletap.
How about you switch to single-tapping and give it a serious try to get good at it before saying stuff that makes no sense.EcksDee wrote:
How is singletapping easier to learn though? When you alternate you know the next note will always be your other finger. When you singletap you gotta think about whether you do need to use your other finger or not. Add onto that the fact that alternating streams when you are a singletapping dude is a completely different set of finger movements being used.
Its like such a roundabout way of playing the game I'm legitimately baffled whenever I see people singletap.
on the contrary it takes even less thought to singletap and patterns become easier because it's easier to learn to tap on tempo with one finger than two because you can go at a fairly consisent speed but if you full alternate you have to constantly change your rate of tapping while also holding tempo so it becomes harder to read patterns and be sure of when to tapEcksDee wrote:
How is singletapping easier to learn though? When you alternate you know the next note will always be your other finger. When you singletap you gotta think about whether you do need to use your other finger or not. Add onto that the fact that alternating streams when you are a singletapping dude is a completely different set of finger movements being used.Ichi wrote:
It´s faster to improve with singletapping, it is really difficult to alternate correctly, and by that i mean that you FULLY alternate, and not just when a bunch of notes come together, and some other times you single. Singletapping is way more consistent and simpler to learn, simplicity is good, specially for your brain to get used to. I personally alternated when i first started, but i realised i was doing singletapping sometimes, so it wasn´t really a good style, i was caught in the middle of both. I´d say go singletap.
Its like such a roundabout way of playing the game I'm legitimately baffled whenever I see people singletap.
i mean ive used both styles altho im not near as good as you this is my way of seeing it.
None of that is what I'd call difficult though. Like for me, I don't ever think about patterns of notes. I just subconsciously thing "Ok, 3+1+5+3" or whatever, and my fingers do all the work.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
on the contrary it takes even less thought to singletap and patterns become easier because it's easier to learn to tap on tempo with one finger than two because you can go at a fairly consisent speed but if you full alternate you have to constantly change your rate of tapping while also holding tempo so it becomes harder to read patterns and be sure of when to tap
i mean ive used both styles altho im not near as good as you this is my way of seeing it.
I assume it's the same for you. You don't think about when you have to use both fingers and when you only gotta use one, do you?
Bassist Vinyl wrote:
this is EXACTLY why singletapping makes being accurate and holding tempo easier
That makes I think literally less than no sense.
this is EXACTLY why singletapping makes being accurate and holding tempo easierEcksDee wrote:
You don't think about when you have to use both fingers and when you only gotta use one, do you?
Especially on maps that quickly transition between 1/4 and 1/2
It's not.EcksDee wrote:
I assume it's the same for you.
Single tapping is intuitive because it ties finger movements to musical rhythm. For any given subdivision of the measure you'll prefer your dominant finger, only using your other finger when that subdivision becomes insufficient to fully describe the rhythm to be tapped. This allows rhythmic complexity to be built on top of a very simple, repetitive foundation. Alternating is non-intuitive because it actively disregards musical rhythm in favor of efficiency. You no longer have a simple, repetitive, foundation to start with, and as a result it's very difficult for a player not experienced with alternation to keep any semblance of rhythm.
Maybe you find alternation easier, but the average player does not, and as an experienced musician I can tell you that the concept single tapping is built on is far more prevalent in the music world than true alternation.
I started alternating at like 1000 to 2000 plays I believe. After getting used to it, I immediately saw a rise (relatively speaking) in skill and accuracy. I distinctly remember switching between singletapping and alternating on some demetori song on insane. And it just felt more natural.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
It's not.EcksDee wrote:
I assume it's the same for you.
Single tapping is intuitive because it ties finger movements to musical rhythm. For any given subdivision of the measure you'll prefer your dominant finger, only using your other finger when that subdivision becomes insufficient to fully describe the rhythm to be tapped. This allows rhythmic complexity to be built on top of a very simple, repetitive foundation. Alternating is non-intuitive because it actively disregards musical rhythm in favor of efficiency. You no longer have a simple, repetitive, foundation to start with, and as a result it's very difficult for a player not experienced with alternation to keep any semblance of rhythm.
Maybe you find alternation easier, but the average player does not, and as an experienced musician I can tell you that the concept single tapping is built on is far more prevalent in the music world than true alternation.
I might be illiciting some knee jerk reaction by saying osu isnt that much about maintaining a constant rhythm all the time. Osu is more about knowing how much time it takes for the next note to require pressing, including 1/4 1/2 and sometimes that weird 1/6 shite.
Or at least, I don't play it like that, by maintaining some foundational sense of rhythm in my hands.
Tho against an 'experienced musician' im totally out of my depth
It's really a matter of personal preference. I started off alternating, picked up single tapping later, now I just switch between both styles (and single tapping fingers) and I've found that I can play comfortably with either, like shifting gears on a bike. Each style helps with different patterns and tempos, though I'm sure it would depend on the player.
If you really want to know what to do, just give every style a try. Single tapping helped me improve my speed, at least.
If you really want to know what to do, just give every style a try. Single tapping helped me improve my speed, at least.
Lol'd at last sentence.EcksDee wrote:
I started alternating at like 1000 to 2000 plays I believe. After getting used to it, I immediately saw a rise (relatively speaking) in skill and accuracy. I distinctly remember switching between singletapping and alternating on some demetori song on insane. And it just felt more natural.
I might be illiciting some knee jerk reaction by saying osu isnt that much about maintaining a constant rhythm all the time. Osu is more about knowing how much time it takes for the next note to require pressing, including 1/4 1/2 and sometimes that weird 1/6 shite.
Or at least, I don't play it like that, by maintaining some foundational sense of rhythm in my hands.
Tho against an 'experienced musician' im totally out of my depth
The foundational sense of rhythm is mostly a mental thing. However, when you pass your comfort zone in terms of stream speed, "knowing" that exact timing while alternating becomes a little tricky, since it is smaller and thus harder to feel (same for long windows), but at the same time is not as detrimental to accuracy because of the reduced hit window gap between notes. It's just a bit deceptive.
Osu! is about maintaining a constant rhythm. That's what music is, it's ordered and neatly divisible, but there is more than one way to go about it. You have presented your method, but it's not the only one... and 'musicians' will far prefer keeping a beat with the respective body parts used as well (creation of music vs playing along). That is done by using the division method where 1 finger represents a 1/2 note and the other the 1/4 notes. Typical mapping will also cater towards these denominators, except for obscure usage of sliders which gives both styles a hard time. It's a game, not a musical instrument, so you don't have to do this, but many people prefer it since it makes more sense in their heads, where your sense of rhythm is kept.
How is singletapping easier to learn though? When you alternate you know the next note will always be your other finger. When you singletap you gotta think about whether you do need to use your other finger or not. Add onto that the fact that alternating streams when you are a singletapping dude is a completely different set of finger movements being used..
Its like such a roundabout way of playing the game I'm legitimately baffled whenever I see people singletap
Thing is its easy to hit every circle while alternating but like people have said it's easy to misstime so unless your an experienced alt you simply mash through certain things, anyway I alternate maps I can't single at all ^
If you alt you are more likely to hit "the wall" faster. It's just how it is, both are good but your chances of being good at one are much higher.
All I'm saying is that if alternation is legitimately more intuitive for you, you're an outlier.EcksDee wrote:
Tho against an 'experienced musician' im totally out of my depth
I'm legitimately interested in the evidence for this.jesus1412 wrote:
If you alt you are more likely to hit "the wall" faster. It's just how it is, both are good but your chances of being good at one are much higher.
I've managed to cram both in, I gain the ability to alternate not because I thought it was better, but it just came naturally to me as my brain/fingers prefer alternating rather than focusing on one finger, however instead of alternating everything like most do, I usually just alternate everything unless everything is in a 1/2 stack, no matter what speed, this came also by accident, not by force. This is great for me since I can practice single tapping at least a little bit, and it has managed to get me to stupidly ridiculous single tap speeds, too bad it's not directly related to streaming for me.
If I were to choose either, I just say preference, but you might as well learn both.
If I were to choose either, I just say preference, but you might as well learn both.
What exactly is "the wall"?jesus1412 wrote:
If you alt you are more likely to hit "the wall" faster. It's just how it is, both are good but your chances of being good at one are much higher.
the stamina wall
I don't know how true that is. Alternating is moderately tiring, but I think attempting to single tap instead would be even worse.
I think the point they mean is..NarrillNezzurh wrote:
I don't know how true that is. Alternating is moderately tiring, but I think attempting to single tap instead would be even worse.
I actually don't know. You don't get tired when alternating, ever. Is that the point? It's less exhausting?
You don't push your stamina as hard as with singletaping
But then again it depends whether or not you play a lot of streamy maps/practice streams often, etc
But then again it depends whether or not you play a lot of streamy maps/practice streams often, etc
Not exactly true, but we haven't reached the skill level where we're playing 200bpm jump maps yet.jesus1412 wrote:
If you alt you are more likely to hit "the wall" faster. It's just how it is, both are good but your chances of being good at one are much higher.
Personally I alternate when it gets to 170bpm, as it's just too much strain afterwards
Topic Starter
Cool thanks for all the replies, guess I'll probably stick to alternating for now have tried single tapping a few times but don't really like it as much feel its easier for me to follow the rhythm of the song when I alternate.
If you really want to push past the standard skill level, you should learn how to single tap.Robbieyo wrote:
Cool thanks for all the replies, guess I'll probably stick to alternating for now have tried single tapping a few times but don't really like it as much feel its easier for me to follow the rhythm of the song when I alternate.
By that, I mean you're aiming for a long term goal of 270bpm
Most players hit the wall and progress becomes a rarity. Alting players get the speed burst at first "huh lol i can play scarlet rose". After a while the 1key players catch up and don't stop until they hit their own wall as they are FORCED to get faster. Both can be accurate as fuck but the wall is all about physical ability, not reading or accuracy.GoldenWolf wrote:
the stamina wall
jesus1412 wrote:
Most players hit the wall and progress becomes a rarity. Alting players get the speed burst at first "huh lol i can play scarlet rose". After a while the 1key players catch up and don't stop until they hit their own wall as they are FORCED to get faster. Both can be accurate as fuck but the wall is all about physical ability, not reading or accuracy.GoldenWolf wrote:
the stamina wall
Please show evidence for this not hurr durr i got draw good
Like how can you tell it's not
also sry i draw "A" for "Ability" weird
Black are alters white are people who use 1key when possible. most of the alt players aren't "fast" players. Fits the trend very nicely, few, far, and not as fast as the faster 1key players. I have provided more reasoning than you in this discussion. "hurr durr u have no base" has even less basis than what I'm saying.
Trend does not indicate an objective super-wall of objective universal suckage.
Just because most blacks have big dicks doesnt mean whites cant have dicks just as big.
edit:
I understand, and I am well, well aware that 95% of the top players are singletappers. This is the only 'reasoning' you have.
Your statement however is that alters hit the wall faster.
How do you know this is some kind of truth of the universe and not just the fact that most people singletap because of reasons?
Just because most blacks have big dicks doesnt mean whites cant have dicks just as big.
edit:
I understand, and I am well, well aware that 95% of the top players are singletappers. This is the only 'reasoning' you have.
Your statement however is that alters hit the wall faster.
How do you know this is some kind of truth of the universe and not just the fact that most people singletap because of reasons?
And that's why if you'd have read the posts you'd have realised even the title of the graph says "Typical players".
It's more common and easier for 1key players to progress in the long term, not all.
I used the front page of the ranking to indicate that MOST of the people who get good use 1key primarily.
EDIT:
It's more common and easier for 1key players to progress in the long term, not all.
I used the front page of the ranking to indicate that MOST of the people who get good use 1key primarily.
EDIT:
I understand, and I am well, well aware that 95% of the top players are singletappers.I don't, it's just what I have seen from observing friends/players in general.
Your statement however is that alters hit the wall faster.
How do you know this is some kind of truth of the universe and not just the fact that most people singletap because of reasons?
It in no way confirms the trend you graphed. Correlation does not equal causation, and there are a number of explanations for the relative lack of alternaters in the top 50, most of which have nothing to do with the actual limitations of alternation.jesus1412 wrote:
Fits the trend very nicely
Quite a few alters switch to single-tap when they hit that wall. That's what is skewing the statistics. I can assure you that the statistic is not 95% because of "follow the leader."EcksDee wrote:
How do you know this is some kind of truth of the universe and not just the fact that most people singletap because of reasons?
I haven't heard of anyone going back to full-alt after changing to single-tap and learning to play it properly. They still alternate when necessary, but primarily single-tap forever after the change because they get the results they want.
I haven't heard of any single-tappers changing to primary full-alt because it seemed better, but the other way around has happened a lot and many alternating players come to these forums and also pm asking for help with complicated maps, whereas single-tappers just post "pls help stream speed AR10 pls". That sounds like enough evidence for me... For whatever reason... You are free to deduce your own.
Top alternating players are seen as exceptional. We seem to set them apart. There's a reason for that and I don't know why, but it exists. It's probably all in our heads, but I wouldn't underestimate what goes on in our heads, as opposed to just our fingers.
You're not going to get any objective evidence, because noone is at the skill cap for the human race. But for those who are still progressing, there is plenty of this "trend."
theres no doubt a lot of factors in what makes a top player but if a lack of one factor is almost always the case, that ONE factor raises red flags. I played WoW and you know why there were no enhancement shamans on a single one of the top 100 arena teams in season 9 [keeping in mind, an arena team, like a player, has many things that make it work well]? enhancement shamans, like alternating, just weren't the most viable way. or it would have been seen more I think.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
It in no way confirms the trend you graphed. Correlation does not equal causation, and there are a number of explanations for the relative lack of alternaters in the top 50, most of which have nothing to do with the actual limitations of alternation.jesus1412 wrote:
Fits the trend very nicely
unless you have a good explanation for the lack of alternators besides lack of viability which I'd be interested in...
It's not unviable. Just harder to master.
yeah but in a game where everyones basically in a constant race to the top in a sense, that makes it unviable. kind of like how a slow car is 'just as good' as a fast car because it can go just as many miles before needing to be serviced, but in the end, it's just not going to be as viable in a competitive setting like that. Yeah the slower/harder to master car/tapping style can get just as far as the faster car, but the fast/easier to master one will always, always be ahead of itjesus1412 wrote:
It's not unviable. Just harder to master.
this analogy might have some flaws and it might be a little over iterated but I think it's valid, probably
I single tap and I think that alternating is farking impossible. I probably am okay at alternating, but not very good since I usually single tap most of the notes.EcksDee wrote:
How is singletapping easier to learn though? When you alternate you know the next note will always be your other finger. When you singletap you gotta think about whether you do need to use your other finger or not. Add onto that the fact that alternating streams when you are a singletapping dude is a completely different set of finger movements being used.Ichi wrote:
It´s faster to improve with singletapping, it is really difficult to alternate correctly, and by that i mean that you FULLY alternate, and not just when a bunch of notes come together, and some other times you single. Singletapping is way more consistent and simpler to learn, simplicity is good, specially for your brain to get used to. I personally alternated when i first started, but i realised i was doing singletapping sometimes, so it wasn´t really a good style, i was caught in the middle of both. I´d say go singletap.
Its like such a roundabout way of playing the game I'm legitimately baffled whenever I see people singletap.
Correlation does not equal causation. That single factor does raise red flags, but without proper evidence you can't prove that it's the cause. Maybe few top players alternate because they started off single-tapping and never found a need to learn to alternate. Perhaps many of those top players are old enough that alternation simply wasn't a commonly known thing when they were learning. Perhaps they just don't see a need to learn it because what they have now is working. And of course, this disparity in the top bracket of players gives alternating a certain stigma, meaning new players are less likely to pick it up, leading to fewer alternating top players a few years down the road. It's entirely likely that these things are reasons why alternating isn't more common, and none of them have to do with the viability of alternating at all.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
theres no doubt a lot of factors in what makes a top player but if a lack of one factor is almost always the case, that ONE factor raises red flags. I played WoW and you know why there were no enhancement shamans on a single one of the top 100 arena teams in season 9 [keeping in mind, an arena team, like a player, has many things that make it work well]? enhancement shamans, like alternating, just weren't the most viable way. or it would have been seen more I think.
unless you have a good explanation for the lack of alternators besides lack of viability which I'd be interested in...
Personally, I've found alternation to be a very valuable skill to have, and I firmly advocate learning it and using it side by side with single tapping. Where one fails, the other shines.
Yes both should be learnt. I'd just advice one is learnt before the other.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
Correlation does not equal causation. That single factor does raise red flags, but without proper evidence you can't prove that it's the cause. Maybe few top players alternate because they started off single-tapping and never found a need to learn to alternate. Perhaps many of those top players are old enough that alternation simply wasn't a commonly known thing when they were learning. Perhaps they just don't see a need to learn it because what they have now is working. And of course, this disparity in the top bracket of players gives alternating a certain stigma, meaning new players are less likely to pick it up, leading to fewer alternating top players a few years down the road. It's entirely likely that these things are reasons why alternating isn't more common, and none of them have to do with the viability of alternating at all.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
theres no doubt a lot of factors in what makes a top player but if a lack of one factor is almost always the case, that ONE factor raises red flags. I played WoW and you know why there were no enhancement shamans on a single one of the top 100 arena teams in season 9 [keeping in mind, an arena team, like a player, has many things that make it work well]? enhancement shamans, like alternating, just weren't the most viable way. or it would have been seen more I think.
unless you have a good explanation for the lack of alternators besides lack of viability which I'd be interested in...
Personally, I've found alternation to be a very valuable skill to have, and I firmly advocate learning it and using it side by side with single tapping. Where one fails, the other shines.
Of course you would prefer alternating over single tap when "single tap fails", because you would rather use an alternative method than putting in the effort to improve your speed/stamina thus hurting you in the long run as you play higher bpm.
It's like taking the elevator rather than the stairs - one takes more effort, sure I might take a while longer to get there but it is more beneficial to me if time isn't of essence.
And what would happen if I kept doing this each day, for each month? Each year? There would be a point where I could probably get there faster than if I took the elevator (unless it was some really large building)
It's like taking the elevator rather than the stairs - one takes more effort, sure I might take a while longer to get there but it is more beneficial to me if time isn't of essence.
And what would happen if I kept doing this each day, for each month? Each year? There would be a point where I could probably get there faster than if I took the elevator (unless it was some really large building)