Some people's brains are more easily able to understand rhythm and build the muscle memory required, so some people will take less time to build accuracy skill. Some people naturally have stronger wrists, so once they get used to the mechanics of streaming, they will be much better at it with less time. And so on. Of course people are not born programmed to play the game, but that doesn't mean nothing we are born with affects how we play the game...
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Can hardwork overcome natural talent?
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Plz. I play on a laptop with the laptop keyboard.takaharrue wrote:
People with less retries just have a different take at getting better. I came from a game where you had to retry 100s of times over and over before you got a good "time" in the game. So, retrying over and over is what I'm used to. That explains my high play count. Also, I'm currently playing Osu! with a rubber dome keyboard and a 120 fps laptop, and that's not good considering hardware is one of the most important things in Osu!, so I'm basically kind of crippled.
Also, just stop saying there is such a thing as talent. What kind of gene is gonna make you better at Osu!? Strong fingers? Anything that the average person can't improve on their own without having the genetics for? No. No one is just born with the ability to be good at Osu!. Do you know how ridiculous people sound when they say stuff like that? Even if you are "talented" anyone can catch up to your skill and then you will be on the same level, regardless that the other person is considered "talented". There's no one that will always be better than you no matter how hard you try, and no one that will be better than you with the same amount of total effort. I feel like people are just giving up on themselves when they say "oh ill never be gud cuz ppl r born with the genetics to play osu!! and i wasnt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Although I do agree about the talent stuff. People, just play the game, ffs stop making excuses for yourselves. I really doubt anyone can not be good if they seriously had something like 200k play count without mindlessly spamming retries. Sure, some may need more/less, but it won't change the fact that the ONLY way to get better is to PLAY THE FUCKING GAME MORE. Who cares if it takes a few thousand more tries? If you're not improving enough to make yourself happy then just quit.
Yea, I think what I should have said was some people might be better than me with less effort because it's easier to play with a good keyboard/computer and I didn't get a tablet until a month 1/2 ago, i've really only been active for like 2 months, the other 5 months were me playing like barely once a week.nooblet wrote:
Plz. I play on a laptop with the laptop keyboard.takaharrue wrote:
People with less retries just have a different take at getting better. I came from a game where you had to retry 100s of times over and over before you got a good "time" in the game. So, retrying over and over is what I'm used to. That explains my high play count. Also, I'm currently playing Osu! with a rubber dome keyboard and a 120 fps laptop, and that's not good considering hardware is one of the most important things in Osu!, so I'm basically kind of crippled.
Also, just stop saying there is such a thing as talent. What kind of gene is gonna make you better at Osu!? Strong fingers? Anything that the average person can't improve on their own without having the genetics for? No. No one is just born with the ability to be good at Osu!. Do you know how ridiculous people sound when they say stuff like that? Even if you are "talented" anyone can catch up to your skill and then you will be on the same level, regardless that the other person is considered "talented". There's no one that will always be better than you no matter how hard you try, and no one that will be better than you with the same amount of total effort. I feel like people are just giving up on themselves when they say "oh ill never be gud cuz ppl r born with the genetics to play osu!! and i wasnt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Although I do agree about the talent stuff. People, just play the game, ffs stop making excuses for yourselves. I really doubt anyone can not be good if they seriously had something like 200k play count without mindlessly spamming retries. Sure, some may need more/less, but it won't change the fact that the ONLY way to get better is to PLAY THE FUCKING GAME MORE. Who cares if it takes a few thousand more tries? If you're not improving enough to make yourself happy then just quit.
SanicHegehog
I can't even tell if you're serious anymore. I play with a laptop keyboard. And what does a tablet have to do with anything.takaharrue wrote:
Yea, I think what I should have said was some people might be better than me with less effort because it's easier to play with a good keyboard/computer and I didn't get a tablet until a month 1/2 ago, i've really only been active for like 2 months, the other 5 months were me playing like barely once a week.
I've played "actively" for almost 60 days and had roughly 250 plays over 9 months. 5 of those months I didn't even play. Sound like a similar situation?
Add that to the ~3-4k plays it took me to get your ranking and you're telling me that my gaming laptop allowed me to grab your ranking in 1/3 of your plays?
No. Just like GoldenWolf said, it's about efficiency in identifying barriers to improvement, and then grinding them out. It's not a big deal, and I don't see the point to bragging about rank/playcount ratio. You're still going to have to play a ton to get better and who really cares about play count. It's not like dragonhuman is better than rrtyui because he has half his playcount.
Ah, yes, whats talent? A good question indeed, but its pointless to think about it or even fight against others with your oponion.
In my oponion talent does exist and is the sum of various factors, be it things such as genes, personality and other per person things. Therefore you cant accurately measure it, talent got way too much variables, most of which we wouldnt even know they're here.
Its subjective on the person what they view talent as, oponions about have a wide range.
In my oponion talent is the ability to learn a specific skill, on a personal level, this excludes factors such as equipment, further watering down what one can define as talent...
In my oponion the Touhou game "Labyrinth of Touhou" reflexes a good (albeit simplified) idea about talent:
Im taking the extreme example of Patchouli Knowledge, shes very talented in magic power. Now magic power could be any other skill, as example, rythm feel to make it Osu! related.
The screenshot shows the skill upgrade screen which shows us two things, Patchy is already good at magic power, thats because of a mixture of genes, personality, past experiences and so on.
It also shows us that further upgrading her magic power costs only 1 skill point. Thats because shes talented at is, whatever talent might be for you.
She needs less effort to get better in that skill.
Now shes bad a physical skills (which could be again any other skill, say... cooking), she starts like this because her past experiences, genes, blablabla, etc etc. Not only that, shes also untalented at it: Upleveling her attack skill takes whopping 7 skillpoints compared to the 1 point for magic power.
She needs to put in more effort to get better at it.
However, if she is willing to make all this effort, she can also get good at it, better than some other person who might be talented at this skill. (sorry, id like to put a picture of her having more atk than Remillia Scarlet, which deffinitively is possible, but it takes more effort than im willing to make for this post)
Now both in the game, real life, and osu, you get skillpoints for doing hard work. When you wont put effort you wont get better, simple as that.
However unlike this game, you dont get to distribute your skillpoints freely in real life and since Osu! depends on your real life skill you wont get to distribute freely for Osu! either.
TL;DR Talented people will always learn the skills faster than those who arent as much talented, but the untalented can make it up by giving it more effort.
Edit: See this one person who rises faster in the ranks than you do? Maybe hes more talented than you... Maybe hes not but puts extra effort.
In my oponion talent does exist and is the sum of various factors, be it things such as genes, personality and other per person things. Therefore you cant accurately measure it, talent got way too much variables, most of which we wouldnt even know they're here.
Its subjective on the person what they view talent as, oponions about have a wide range.
In my oponion talent is the ability to learn a specific skill, on a personal level, this excludes factors such as equipment, further watering down what one can define as talent...
In my oponion the Touhou game "Labyrinth of Touhou" reflexes a good (albeit simplified) idea about talent:
Im taking the extreme example of Patchouli Knowledge, shes very talented in magic power. Now magic power could be any other skill, as example, rythm feel to make it Osu! related.
The screenshot shows the skill upgrade screen which shows us two things, Patchy is already good at magic power, thats because of a mixture of genes, personality, past experiences and so on.
It also shows us that further upgrading her magic power costs only 1 skill point. Thats because shes talented at is, whatever talent might be for you.
She needs less effort to get better in that skill.
Now shes bad a physical skills (which could be again any other skill, say... cooking), she starts like this because her past experiences, genes, blablabla, etc etc. Not only that, shes also untalented at it: Upleveling her attack skill takes whopping 7 skillpoints compared to the 1 point for magic power.
She needs to put in more effort to get better at it.
However, if she is willing to make all this effort, she can also get good at it, better than some other person who might be talented at this skill. (sorry, id like to put a picture of her having more atk than Remillia Scarlet, which deffinitively is possible, but it takes more effort than im willing to make for this post)
Now both in the game, real life, and osu, you get skillpoints for doing hard work. When you wont put effort you wont get better, simple as that.
However unlike this game, you dont get to distribute your skillpoints freely in real life and since Osu! depends on your real life skill you wont get to distribute freely for Osu! either.
TL;DR Talented people will always learn the skills faster than those who arent as much talented, but the untalented can make it up by giving it more effort.
Edit: See this one person who rises faster in the ranks than you do? Maybe hes more talented than you... Maybe hes not but puts extra effort.
seriously is there really anyone who's born with the talent to click circles
anyway, the more effort you put into (pretty much anything), the better you'll become. as long as you keep working hard you'll naturally become better than others... some peope just become better faster, doesn't mean you can't catch up to them.
(the title of the thread had a nice, simple idea but everyone just went way deep discussing about it wth)
anyway, the more effort you put into (pretty much anything), the better you'll become. as long as you keep working hard you'll naturally become better than others... some peope just become better faster, doesn't mean you can't catch up to them.
(the title of the thread had a nice, simple idea but everyone just went way deep discussing about it wth)
OFFTOPIC:TheVileOne wrote:
If you have the time to spend 6 hours a day playing nothing but maps with DT then sure. You may not be #1 quality, but certainly you could be someone well above average. I would say mostly anyone has the potential to be in the top 1000 if they had enough patience. Very few people have the time or the patience to avoid bad habits, and the road isn't exactly enjoyable, which makes it hardly worth the effort to try to become the next cookiezi. I mean Cookiezi played the game until he went blind and it probably wasn't fun.
Cookiezi wasn't blind, that thing about him having eye injury is a sham. I'd lose my hand before my eyes if I play too hard
i don't see how your physiology at all relates to cookiezi's unless you're his twin?[MY] yummy90 XP wrote:
OFFTOPIC:TheVileOne wrote:
If you have the time to spend 6 hours a day playing nothing but maps with DT then sure. You may not be #1 quality, but certainly you could be someone well above average. I would say mostly anyone has the potential to be in the top 1000 if they had enough patience. Very few people have the time or the patience to avoid bad habits, and the road isn't exactly enjoyable, which makes it hardly worth the effort to try to become the next cookiezi. I mean Cookiezi played the game until he went blind and it probably wasn't fun.
Cookiezi wasn't blind, that thing about him having eye injury is a sham. I'd lose my hand before my eyes if I play too hard
Obama even said himself that hardware is really important in Osu!. My play count is really high because I retry a lot, look at my most retried map and your most retried map.Ethelon wrote:
I can't even tell if you're serious anymore. I play with a laptop keyboard. And what does a tablet have to do with anything.takaharrue wrote:
Yea, I think what I should have said was some people might be better than me with less effort because it's easier to play with a good keyboard/computer and I didn't get a tablet until a month 1/2 ago, i've really only been active for like 2 months, the other 5 months were me playing like barely once a week.
I've played "actively" for almost 60 days and had roughly 250 plays over 9 months. 5 of those months I didn't even play. Sound like a similar situation?
Add that to the ~3-4k plays it took me to get your ranking and you're telling me that my gaming laptop allowed me to grab your ranking in 1/3 of your plays?
No. Just like GoldenWolf said, it's about efficiency in identifying barriers to improvement, and then grinding them out. It's not a big deal, and I don't see the point to bragging about rank/playcount ratio. You're still going to have to play a ton to get better and who really cares about play count. It's not like dragonhuman is better than rrtyui because he has half his playcount.
[MY] yummy90 XP wrote:
Cookiezi wasn't blind, that thing about him having eye injury is a sham. I'd lose my hand before my eyes if I play too hard
It's a sham? According to what? If you're basing this on your own ideology that someone can't get an injury related to the eye before the hand from playing osu! then you're absolutely wrong. Has it occurred to you that there's factors outside of playing video games that may affect someone's eyesight?
Somewhere here he talks about his eyes - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tOv ... y71yw/edit
If only you had some way to determine what's talent and measure that to some extent.
You'll only know once you try.
You'll only know once you try.
omg I play eroge and like takoyaki I am like cookieziMathsma wrote:
Somewhere here he talks about his eyes - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tOv ... y71yw/edit
Who?
We should make a ranking based on genetics, so that we can ridicule people with good genetics and low rank.
I don't really see a point of discussion here, except trying to justify yourself for being worse than others.
I'll just leave these 2 responses here.
I don't really see a point of discussion here, except trying to justify yourself for being worse than others.
I'll just leave these 2 responses here.
GoldenWolf wrote:
Those "talented" people I see are only people who play (much) more than other players, play the right maps instead of retrying easy stuff for SS or whatever, and understand themselves what they do wrong and how to fix that asap (And no I don't think the latter qualify as a "talent")
If anything it's a luck factor of finding the right maps to play/practice on, or spending more time to find them than others
It just really irks me when people are saying X is better than them because they have "talent", when in fact they weren't playing/practicing as much/efficent as them
Aqo wrote:
natural talent is an excuse by people who refuse to hard work
The deaf piano composer god damn itGoldenWolf wrote:
Who?
Beethoven? I don't quite think he was alive recently, don't see how he could have played osu!Rewben2 wrote:
The deaf piano composer god damn it
10crystalmask01 wrote:
Kevin Durant (A pretty famous Basketball player in team Oklahoma City Thunder if you watch the NBA) said that quote.XK2238 wrote:
"hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard".
This quote makes more sense then the other one, since talent shouldn't be slacking off in the first place.
Reminds me of that story about the rabbit and turtle race. And we all know who won in the end, right?
the goat
Cookiezi vs the other top 10 players.
the gap in skill is insane, just on the top of my head :FC atama taisou, HD+HR matzcore, 99.97% 4D, while none of the other top 10 can do as of now.
So, I'd say hardwork is good obviously but can not overcome personality/gene such as confidence, degree of nervousness,finger length etc.
the gap in skill is insane, just on the top of my head :FC atama taisou, HD+HR matzcore, 99.97% 4D, while none of the other top 10 can do as of now.
So, I'd say hardwork is good obviously but can not overcome personality/gene such as confidence, degree of nervousness,finger length etc.
more recent scores hereaizhid wrote:
Cookiezi vs the other top 10 players.
the gap in skill is insane, just on the top of my head :FC atama taisou, HD+HR matzcore, 99.97% 4D, while none of the other top 10 can do as of now.
So, I'd say hardwork is good obviously but can not overcome personality/gene such as confidence, degree of nervousness,finger length etc.
http://rc.mugzone.me/?lang=en#!player/uid=116&mode=0xs
What was Cookiezi's play count before being banned?
Rewben2 wrote:
"Natural talent" is only going to get you so far, and that isn't far at all. You are only going to get good from practising and playing, there's a reason that all the top players have been playing for 3+ years.
theLiminator wrote:
What was Cookiezi's play count before being banned?
around 100k
xDDDDDDDDDtakaharrue wrote:
Oh no worries, guys. I found it, I guess there is a gene that codes for Osu! skill after all. Wow, that's funny. I should submit my findings to a scientific journal.
whats this?? here it says he plays every dayBassist Vinyl wrote:
more recent scores here
http://rc.mugzone.me/?lang=en#!player/uid=116&mode=0xs
he plays on that third party client still occasionally, for fun not for competition anymore. Not everyday. Before yesterday he hadn't played in 18 days.iderekmc wrote:
whats this?? here it says he plays every dayBassist Vinyl wrote:
more recent scores here
http://rc.mugzone.me/?lang=en#!player/uid=116&mode=0xs
But even with that casual playing he's still setting some scores that noone currently can match.
In fact, just yesterday, he set rank 1's [if he had done it here] on | quite | a | few | songs | [maybe more than those but im too lazy to check every single one]
all hail
Higher output with less input. That's natural talent.
omg wtf, cookiezi is still playing, LOL. XD
Coffee Hero
more recent scores hereThere is 0 proof that that is actually him iirc
http://rc.mugzone.me/?lang=en#!player/uid=116&mode=0xs
whats this?? here it says he plays every day
he plays on that third party client still occasionally, for fun not for competition anymore. Not everyday. Before yesterday he hadn't played in 18 days.
But even with that casual playing he's still setting some scores that noone currently can match.
In fact, just yesterday, he set rank 1's [if he had done it here] on | quite | a | few | songs | [maybe more than those but im too lazy to check every single one]
all hail
But really, why wouldn't you be playing on the actual client if you're capable of Cookiezi level play?Shirokami- wrote:
There is 0 proof that that is actually him iirc
to keep the legend aliveNarrillNezzurh wrote:
But really, why wouldn't you be playing on the actual client if you're capable of Cookiezi level play?Shirokami- wrote:
There is 0 proof that that is actually him iirc
Who says they are playing legit? Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqke9kWHX3U is a timewarped score with a namechange.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
But really, why wouldn't you be playing on the actual client if you're capable of Cookiezi level play?Shirokami- wrote:
There is 0 proof that that is actually him iirc
Topic Starter
he plays on that third party client still occasionally, for fun not for competition anymore. Not everyday. Before yesterday he hadn't played in 18 days.
But even with that casual playing he's still setting some scores that noone currently can match.
In fact, just yesterday, he set rank 1's [if he had done it here] on | quite | a | few | songs | [maybe more than those but im too lazy to check every single one]
all hail[/quote]
do you have proof from his twitter? (I can't even find that >.>)
But even with that casual playing he's still setting some scores that noone currently can match.
In fact, just yesterday, he set rank 1's [if he had done it here] on | quite | a | few | songs | [maybe more than those but im too lazy to check every single one]
all hail[/quote]
do you have proof from his twitter? (I can't even find that >.>)
Topic Starter
more recent scores hereand how does this site work? rrtyui #83? what? thelewa is #183 and GGBY is #1 (as apposed to #79)
http://rc.mugzone.me/?lang=en#!player/uid=116&mode=0xs
what's going on?
Coffee Hero
It goes by scoreNitBean wrote:
more recent scores hereand how does this site work? rrtyui #83? what? thelewa is #183 and GGBY is #1 (as apposed to #79)
http://rc.mugzone.me/?lang=en#!player/uid=116&mode=0xs
what's going on?
Topic Starter
[/quote]
It goes by score[/quote]
do they have to upload every single song if they want it to register? I didn't even know this client existed
It goes by score[/quote]
do they have to upload every single song if they want it to register? I didn't even know this client existed