New mod team? A nice little addition to the mod workforce. I have to admit though, some of the choices for MAT members seem a bit odd. Some do not seem to have much experience if their kudosu and ranked maps are any indication. Nevertheless, congrats to all MAT members!

I hope that this will make that my maps get ranked a bit faster than before :3
It would be interesting to be a MAT somewhere in the future but i guess i lack experience.

Also, what's next? HATs? CATs?

*Rolls out the red MAT for the purple MAT's.*

Wojjan wrote:

where doing it man

where MAKING this hapen

Congrats to the new MATs.

See, that rhymes.

Nakata Yuji wrote:

Atmey wrote:

Priceless.

Couldn't agree more! XD

Why do I need mapping assistance when I have more experience than almost anyone on the team? This is just another step to make getting a map ranked even more needlessly difficult. Why can't these people just be BATs?

Agent Spin Here wrote:

Why do I need mapping assistance when I have more experience than almost anyone on the team? This is just another step to make getting a map ranked even more needlessly difficult. Why can't these people just be BATs?

I feel a bit like this. However, I won't judge this system just yet. Maybe it actually speeds up the process.

Congraduations for every MATs :3
Anyway...

/me doesn't have any other comments.

im sorry but what do we gain from this? is this a project to make it easier for BATs, or make it easier for mappers? to me it feels like you pass on the "dirty work" to MATs, which are IMO normal modders.

this is like the current system lol.

what is the difference between a MAT and a normal modder? other then MAT supposedly have a stronger voice then normal modders?

Yeah, seems good system.
But, more BAT member is effective way IMO.
I don't think it will be better than now.
Anyway, let's see how this system will works well.

to clarify: BAT are still allowed to mod maps that haven't been MAT-approved. However, we ARE more LIKELY to mod maps that have been proto-bubbled because they tend to restore our faith in humanity a little from modding the ones that aren't In all seriousness, this is a step up from our earlier system in that the people who mod well but are not ready to become BAT yet are both recognized and given a small taste of the power a BAT has, effectively serving both as a trial run for our future BATs, a beacon of hope for those aspiring to a red name, and a more effective quality control than the typical "I like this song and I'm a noob who can't tell quality so Imma star your map so it gets ranked for the prettiful song" that we had going before.

Gabi wrote:

im sorry but what do we gain from this? is this a project to make it easier for BATs, or make it easier for mappers? to me it feels like you pass on the "dirty work" to MATs, which are IMO normal modders.

this is like the current system lol.

what is the difference between a MAT and a normal modder? other then MAT supposedly have a stronger voice then normal modders?

Most BAT will now draw their attention to proto-bubbled maps selected by the MAT as opposed to taking standard mod requests or using a queue. Considering the number of the MAT, this effectively makes them managers of one big BAT wide modding queue and unites both the community and the team on one front as they act through the same conduit.

MAT are just normal modders who have proven that they are capable of handling a position of somewhat elevated status and are generally interested in contributing more to the community.

Gabi wrote:

im sorry but what do we gain from this? is this a project to make it easier for BATs, or make it easier for mappers? to me it feels like you pass on the "dirty work" to MATs, which are IMO normal modders.

this is like the current system lol.

what is the difference between a MAT and a normal modder? other then MAT supposedly have a stronger voice then normal modders?

^^' nice words, i couldn't have put it better myself,I like my Normal modder status, some of and i do see some of the players saying stuff like "oh wow, i want a purple name, I want to become a MAT" but i don't see why can't a player like I, who likes to mod would want a purple name. probably if it's to be noticed as a modder, then sure, but i tend to be a modder myself, , , , , well w/e, I'm still interested to see how things turn out ^^'

Edit: nice Ephemeral, that looks legit ^^'

The team will be large enough to encompass effectively anybody keen enough to join it provided they're an active modder and a recognized contributor. It won't be anywhere near as selective as the BAT is and like I said earlier, will operate on applications so everybody has an equal shot at getting in.

You guys are STILL missing the biggest problem there is...THE PRIORITY SYSTEM.
You say everything has flaws, but this has many majors ones.

• 8 priority still isn't enough IMO. Even then not enough BATs take care of the highest priority maps, because of the following.
• Over-starring. Maps will get starred for no reason, maps that have absolutely no progress (I'm talking to you kokoroanime) and just about the song, HORRIBLE maps will get starred. :<
• THE FUCKING SEA OF BUBBLES. Bubbles getting pushed up is useless if there's over 9000 of them. Well, you know what I mean.
• BAT favorites. The reason why some people have many ranked maps is that they ARE a BAT or know one too well.

Just got to point those out there might be more, and btw, Kudosu system is beautiful, don't fucking touch it.

Now onto the MATs. (Since I just dragged on about something else there. >_>)
If they're gonna stay something has to be done about the Pending Sea. Like said before this Assembly Line is just getting longer and longer. It was simple at first, BAT look, BAT like, other BAT look, other BAT like, RANKIES. And then is when we had the best maps. The classics. <3
Then you had to promote the fuck out of your map to get BATs attention if you were new. The bonus for modding was nice, kudosu. (I was here before it was implemented)
And now we have to get even more people's attention.

I forsee an even bigger sea of Proto-Bubbles. Just a warning, with a mass amount of MATs like this...

R.I.P.
Priority System
2009

FYI, it was in early 2009 when the kds system was implemented.

uhh...my post might sound a bit odd, they way I typed it... ._.
I'll just wait and see how this turns out though, good luck MATs.

Alex0686 wrote:

• 8 priority still isn't enough IMO. Even then not enough BATs take care of the highest priority maps, because of the following.
• Over-starring. Maps will get starred for no reason, maps that have absolutely no progress (I'm talking to you kokoroanime) and just about the song, HORRIBLE maps will get starred. :<
• THE FUCKING SEA OF BUBBLES. Bubbles getting pushed up is useless if there's over 9000 of them. Well, you know what I mean.
• BAT favorites. The reason why some people have many ranked maps is that they ARE a BAT or know one too well.

1. You're right. 8 priority isn't enough. I've been working on +20SP since I became a BAT. We're aware of this, and we are discussing alternative methods for assessing rank viability while still keeping it fair and accessible for all users - the MAT is one way of doing this. There are others which we will explore.
2. MAT were introduced to stem the song-starring hordes. Star priority is now a unit centric only to the MAT - the BAT have no reason to care about it any longer. Since the MAT is a composite group of most of the active community, maps will get ranked faster depending on how the community at hand views said maps. This will hopefully be fairer than the current system we have.
3. Many of the BAT are on holiday related leave, so activity levels on our part are slightly lower than normal. I'm sure you can understand.
4. This is completely baseless. I'm all for civil discussion, but if you're not going to back your statements up with any form of proof, then you probably shouldn't bother saying them in the first place. BAT will get their maps proto-bubbled like everybody else will.

There are enough MAT that finding a member who is willing to look at your map for proto-bubble viability should be considerably easier than it used to be to find a BAT active and doing the modding rounds. People in the MAT have been selected primarily for their activity, and inactive members will be cropped from the team on regular intervals.

I am not obliged to divulge any further, but the MAT are a composite facet of a new system which will be introduced fully later on in '10 anyway. This is but one step on the road, my friend. We are actually trying to make this better for everybody.

I remember before when I was a mod (BAT now)...
I wont forgot these moments during this time...
I mod, Saturos ranks. Active mods.. less than 5.. Reikin, awp, mtmcl, forgot...
Total pages in pending 15-16.. Never went higher than that.
Bubbles in pending, zero. Yep, zero... (or less than 5, but I remember having 0 bubbled maps before)
But a sea of stars~
We get alot of submitted maps every day during that time, no beatmap cap before.

Now....
Total pages in pending... 22..
Total active mods... about 10?
Bubbled maps... alot...
Starred maps... alot....

I think total submitted maps in pending should be really small.
Whats the problem then? You guys can answer that.

And I wish to all of you this new system, hope this system works now...

Ephemeral wrote:

Alex0686 wrote:

• BAT favorites. The reason why some people have many ranked maps is that they ARE a BAT or know one too well.

1. This is completely baseless. I'm all for civil discussion, but if you're not going to back your statements up with any form of proof, then you probably shouldn't bother saying them in the first place. BAT will get their maps proto-bubbled like everybody else will.

Yeah, I'm sorry about this statement, but it happens, not too much anymore, but sometimes it happens.
Not going to name anyone though.

I've been advocating for an alternate priority system that works somewhat better than the current popularity contest thing, but it can't move forward until peppy returns. The basic outline of the system can be found inthis post and has been improving in the privacy of the Mod Lounge ever since. However, I am really doubting how much the community is invested in improving the priority system because of their utter failure to produce any useful feedback on it.

Well I also do think it was hard to contact BATs. It felt like there was a line or a barrier btw BATs and unknown mappers. I hope MAT becomes a bridge btw BATs and mappers
I somewhat can't get rid of the idea of "extended process", but I can see how MATs work hard so I guess it is going to be ok.

Ephemeral wrote:

[*]You're right. 8 priority isn't enough. I've been working on +20SP since I became a BAT. We're aware of this, and we are discussing alternative methods for assessing rank viability while still keeping it fair and accessible for all users - the MAT is one way of doing this. There are others which we will explore.

I disagree. Some mappers map so fine they hardly have any faults on their maps... Getting 20 mod posts would be a bore for them. Yes, they can go and mod themselves for kudosu stars, but that's also a pain.

People want to speed up the ranking process, no? Making the SP requirement higher would result in even work and time.

Real1 wrote:

I disagree. Some mappers map so fine they hardly have any faults on their maps... Getting 20 mod posts would be a bore for them. Yes, they can go and mod themselves for kudosu stars, but that's also a pain.

People want to speed up the ranking process, no? Making the SP requirement higher would result in even work and time.

No map is without flaws.

Improvements can always be made.

The MAT is selected and specifically designed to prevent slowdowns as much as humanly possible. The sheer size of the team will prevent any bottlenecking in that department. Your concerns are noted, but they are nothing we haven't already gone through in the development phase with this plan.

Congratulations!

MAT <3 ~
Hope it works well~

Ephemeral wrote:

No map is without flaws.

Improvements can always be made.

While the former may be true, it occasionally goes unobserved, as the flaws, present or not, may be so insignificant that they do not get noticed.

I'll attest to the latter statement, though.

Ephemeral wrote:

Gabi wrote:

im sorry but what do we gain from this? is this a project to make it easier for BATs, or make it easier for mappers? to me it feels like you pass on the "dirty work" to MATs, which are IMO normal modders.

this is like the current system lol.

what is the difference between a MAT and a normal modder? other then MAT supposedly have a stronger voice then normal modders?

Most BAT will now draw their attention to proto-bubbled maps selected by the MAT as opposed to taking standard mod requests or using a queue. Considering the number of the MAT, this effectively makes them managers of one big BAT wide modding queue and unites both the community and the team on one front as they act through the same conduit.

MAT are just normal modders who have proven that they are capable of handling a position of somewhat elevated status and are generally interested in contributing more to the community.

are we really guarenteed that BATs will now draw their attention to proto-bubbled maps? i mean we were also promised that BATs would draw their attention to high star priority maps, but you know how that story goes.

your post is quite good and all, but what can we expect from this and what changes will we see? (this might have been answered, if so just direct me to the post again so i can re read it)

Ephemeral wrote:

Alex0686 wrote:

• BAT favorites. The reason why some people have many ranked maps is that they ARE a BAT or know one too well.

1. This is completely baseless. I'm all for civil discussion, but if you're not going to back your statements up with any form of proof, then you probably shouldn't bother saying them in the first place. BAT will get their maps proto-bubbled like everybody else will.

it is not completely baseless, i could show you a few examples, however this has nothing to do with the current topic and it would only spark up bad discussions and arguments.

Gabi, I do about 1/2 of my modding from p-bubbles, about 1/3 from the overdrive queue, and about 1/6 from requests. So yes, at least as far as I go, I do mod from the pubble queue.

Gabi wrote:

are we really guarenteed that BATs will now draw their attention to proto-bubbled maps? i mean we were also promised that BATs would draw their attention to high star priority maps, but you know how that story goes.

your post is quite good and all, but what can we expect from this and what changes will we see? (this might have been answered, if so just direct me to the post again so i can re read it)

Nothing is ever guaranteed, but the MAT system certainly promotes greater community input in the ranking process. BAT are advised - but not enforced - to draw their attention to proto-bubbled maps, and as SFG has detailed, most of us have already done so. This is different from SP in the sense that only trusted members can award the status to maps in the first place. There is little room for abuse, which makes it infinitely more reliable than the SP system for the BAT, at least.

For starters, the overall map quality level should directly increase from the community being directly involved in the process - whereas before, map quality was primarily determined by the BAT. More people means more viewpoints, more feedback, and more quality. That is one thing you can expect and should be able to see evident within a week or so, should everything go to plan.

Ranking time may also significantly speed up as a consequence of new internal organization introduced into the cycle through the implementation of the MAT. This should be visible soon, but not straight away - as there are still some backend things which need to be done internally to optimize this process. Ranking time will not slow down because of this system - this has been a major concern for some users and it is something we have thought very extensively about and has most certainly been accounted for.

In regards to any examples of perceived BAT abuse, I would be quite happy to forward any complaints to the appropriate people in the staff, should you have ample reasoning and proof to validate such claims.

And stemming on that, if people have issues with the MAT system that they would like to discuss in depth, I am often available on IRC most of the time (and always available via forum PM) and would be more than happy to answer any questions in real time you may have about the system if discussion within this thread does not sate your curiosity.

The only way we can advance as a community is to discuss these things as a community. Please, do not hesitate to ask questions or give feedback on matters that you may feel strongly about. We're all in this together, and every viewpoint helps.

Isn't good? If they will have something on the top of post subject like this with proto-bubbled.
If MAT are so major before we will get some mod from BAT// I don't know this much.. but I see on Modding Queues of some BAT =.=

I take a break, come back, and this happens.

Good news. Keep it up guys. BRB, modding again.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

DeathxShinigami wrote:

I'm not in agreement with Agnes or Shinde being on the team but everything else just looks dandy!

Ouch.

I'd blame ztrot, it's probably his fault some way or another. I was going to write something snazzy and intelligent, but I've things to do. Congratulations to the whole new team, and here's hoping to an improved and more expedient ranking system.

Well, there certainly has been more ranking recently. Cool.

And yeah, congrats guys.

Tell me one thing how can you guys prevent or save this situation
If MATs do good job.they find many good pending maps
but BATs can`t follow to mod most of them
We will get many empty bubbles
EVEN WORSE!! BATs skip MATs and mod what they want
MATs will also become lazy because their works are ignore

This is the worst situation IMO
think about it

Kytoxid wrote:

Well, there certainly has been more ranking recently. Cool.

And yeah, congrats guys.

I don't think that the "increased ranking" had anything to do with us though.

I'm just going to do what I can and hope for the best.

It seems mor diffcult to RANK a map o.o
The origin of MAT design is great, maybe it would takes a long time to ensure what MAT really do

Kytoxid wrote:

Well, there certainly has been more ranking recently. Cool.

And yeah, congrats guys.

Well the MATs were just added...what, yesterday?

I think the recent ranking is probably because of BATs on vacation from school.

If I were to say anything, this would seem like sort of a pyramid of steps before rank.

Modders: General modding, picking up mistakes, improvements made.

MATs: Confirmation that everything in the map can be and IS in high standard. Looking for further improvements to make the map better.

BATs: Approval of a map, fully confirming that is at high standard and also confirming that this map is good for the public.

Am I right on that?

Seems to me that this is just one more piece of "red tape" to have to go through that could keep otherwise good maps from being ranked.

That said, I hope that isn't the case and things will work more smoothly with this in place.

MarioBros777 wrote:

If I were to say anything, this would seem like sort of a pyramid of steps before rank.

Modders: General modding, picking up mistakes, improvements made.

MATs: Confirmation that everything in the map can be and IS in high standard. Looking for further improvements to make the map better.

BATs: Approval of a map, fully confirming that is at high standard and also confirming that this map is good for the public.

Am I right on that?

Pretty much. :O

MegaManEXE wrote:

Kytoxid wrote:

Well, there certainly has been more ranking recently. Cool.

And yeah, congrats guys.

Well the MATs were just added...what, yesterday?

I think the recent ranking is probably because of BATs on vacation from school.

There is some truth to that, I had a day off and went nuts.
But you guys are gonna do great <3

I'll spent my vacation time on studying(by force) ToT
Bye Bye and see you month later, guys!

A passage from Stranger in a Strange Land.

In Laputa, according to Lemuel Gulliver, no person of importance listened or spoke without help of a "climenole"--or "flapper" in English translation, as such servant's duty was to flap the mouth and ears of his master with a bladder whenever, in the opinion of the servant, it was desirable for his master to speak or listen. Without the consent of his flapper it was impossible to converse with any Laputian of the master class.

...

On the planet Terra the flapper system developed slowly. Time was when any Terran sovereign held public court so that the lowliest might come before him without intermediary. Traces of this persisted long after kings became scarce - an Englishman could "Cry Harold!" (although none did) and the smarter city bosses still left their doors open to any gandy dancer of bindlestiff far into the twentieth century. A remnant of the principle was embalmed in Amendments I and IX of the United States Constitution, although superseded by the Articles of World Federation.

By the time the Champion returned from Mars the principle of access to the sovereign was dead in fact, regardless of the nominal form of government, and the importance of a personage could be told by the layers of flappers cutting him off from the mob. They were known as executive assistants, private secretaries, secretaries to private secretaries, press secretaries, receptionists, appointment clerks, et cetera - but all were "flappers" as each held arbitrary veto over communication from the outside.

These webs of officials resulted in unofficials who flapped the Great Man without permission from official flappers, using social occasions, or back-door access, or unlisted telephone numbers. These unofficials were called: "golfing companion," "kitchen cabinet," "lobbyist," "elder statesman," "fiver-percenter," and so forth. The unofficials grew webs, too, until they were almost as hard to reach as the Great Man, and secondary unofficials sprang up to circumvent the flappers of primary unofficials. With a personage of foremost importance the maze of unofficials was as complex as the official phalanxes surrounding a person merely very important.

mtmcl wrote:

A passage from Stranger in a Strange Land.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Alace wrote:

Tell me one thing how can you guys prevent or save this situation
If MATs do good job.they find many good pending maps
but BATs can`t follow to mod most of them
We will get many empty bubbles
EVEN WORSE!! BATs skip MATs and mod what they want
MATs will also become lazy because their works are ignore

This is the worst situation IMO
think about it

That would be the same situation as we got before having MATs. We are atlease giving a shot and we found out that BATs are motivated on the new Proto Bubble system. I think this system would not bring us to the worse situation then we had before having MATs.
Spamming Stars also brought the situation when BATs turn away from high priority maps

well the only worry i have so far is the constant bad modding posts, stupid posts not explaining what needs to be fixed, ect from some MATs >_>. really i like the idea of MAT, but they should not really be modding so badly sometimes :/, i respect alot of the BAT's on here because they can be great at modding, but MAT's as yet have to show me anything to respect :/

i do not mean this as a troll or a flame, i am just pointing out a worry i have over this, and hope no one takes offence, its just its starting to get to me a little,

these are the ppl we will have to come to before we go to bats, so we have to have respect for there modding, but atm with how ive seen some of the modding happening, that is 100% impossable

Could you give an example? I can't think of a mod post that does not tell you what to fix, it pretty much removes the reason for modding.

am i allowed to quote ppl without creating a massive flame at me?

jericho2442 wrote:

am i allowed to quote ppl without creating a massive flame at me?

PM it to me.

pm'd enough info for you to understand what i mean :/

but yea MATS, try to up your modding a bit

mtmcl wrote:

In Laputa, according to Lemuel Gulliver, no person of importance listened or spoke without help of a "climenole"--or "flapper" in English translation, as such servant's duty was to flap the mouth and ears of his master with a bladder whenever, in the opinion of the servant, it was desirable for his master to speak or listen. Without the consent of his flapper it was impossible to converse with any Laputian of the master class.

...

On the planet Terra the flapper system developed slowly. Time was when any Terran sovereign held public court so that the lowliest might come before him without intermediary. Traces of this persisted long after kings became scarce - an Englishman could "Cry Harold!" (although none did) and the smarter city bosses still left their doors open to any gandy dancer of bindlestiff far into the twentieth century. A remnant of the principle was embalmed in Amendments I and IX of the United States Constitution, although superseded by the Articles of World Federation.

By the time the Champion returned from Mars the principle of access to the sovereign was dead in fact, regardless of the nominal form of government, and the importance of a personage could be told by the layers of flappers cutting him off from the mob. They were known as executive assistants, private secretaries, secretaries to private secretaries, press secretaries, receptionists, appointment clerks, et cetera - but all were "flappers" as each held arbitrary veto over communication from the outside.

These webs of officials resulted in unofficials who flapped the Great Man without permission from official flappers, using social occasions, or back-door access, or unlisted telephone numbers. These unofficials were called: "golfing companion," "kitchen cabinet," "lobbyist," "elder statesman," "fiver-percenter," and so forth. The unofficials grew webs, too, until they were almost as hard to reach as the Great Man, and secondary unofficials sprang up to circumvent the flappers of primary unofficials. With a personage of foremost importance the maze of unofficials was as complex as the official phalanxes surrounding a person merely very important.

This quote beautifully captures the trouble.