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[Rule]Approval criteria

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Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
What's a "good map"? How do you measure how good a map is? I find this to be an idea that would be pretty much end up as "be friends with/please a few BATs and you can skip some rules to get your map ranked".

I'm also still wondering: what's a gimmick map?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Wishy wrote:

I'm also still wondering: what's a gimmick map?
Something like ziin's blythe or soaprman's fear factory, maps whose gameplay has things outside of the common gameplay for their mode by the use of storyboard or skin elements, to emulate something from where the song comes from as a gimmick.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
So we are talking about a mapping style that's almost non existent and then we have some subjective criteria that's basically a formula for disaster... this doesn't look like a good idea at all.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Is BIG BLACK considered a gimmick? Would you make a full spread for that song? I doubt it would even be possible to make a full spread. The simpler difficulties would be unplayable. I don't think it qualifies as a gimmick though. Difficulty is not a gimmick by normal definitions.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
It could be possible yet the map would suck. Not gimmick tho, just a hard map.
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d

TheVileOne wrote:

Is BIG BLACK considered a gimmick? Would you make a full spread for that song? I doubt it would even be possible to make a full spread. The simpler difficulties would be unplayable. I don't think it qualifies as a gimmick though. Difficulty is not a gimmick by normal definitions.
I think it's fair to say that the likes of 'BIG BLACK' are gimmick maps. They're hard for the sake of it. Basically, BD's maps which are made specifically for that.

Maps which are considered "fun," but contain unrankable features, would presumably go for approval as well. Things like Burais and sliders which start and end in the same place. By definition, a gimmick is something that's extraneous and is done for the sake of it, so forced difficulty would come under that.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

TheVileOne wrote:

Is BIG BLACK considered a gimmick? Would you make a full spread for that song? I doubt it would even be possible to make a full spread. The simpler difficulties would be unplayable. I don't think it qualifies as a gimmick though. Difficulty is not a gimmick by normal definitions.
Big Black is practically mapped at 180bpm, it is totally possible to create an easier difficulty.

Wishy wrote:

It could be possible yet the map would suck. Not gimmick tho, just a hard map.
Probably the map would suck, like every other easy difficulty ....
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Big Black is no gimmick it's just a hard map that started out as a joke.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

D33d wrote:

TheVileOne wrote:

Is BIG BLACK considered a gimmick? Would you make a full spread for that song? I doubt it would even be possible to make a full spread. The simpler difficulties would be unplayable. I don't think it qualifies as a gimmick though. Difficulty is not a gimmick by normal definitions.
I think it's fair to say that the likes of 'BIG BLACK' are gimmick maps. They're hard for the sake of it. Basically, BD's maps which are made specifically for that.
Whoa whoa wait
wat?
Big Back is mapped for the sake of being hard? wtf. Big Black has 720 BPM, BD mapped it at 180, it's mapped extremely easy compared to what would be possible with it. It's undermapped as is.
Please refrain from saying stuff like that. maps like that are hard, but they fit the song perfectly or are even undermapped (similar with Aqo's Cloudsmasher etc.)
Also, BD has made some hard maps, but really most of his maps are calm, easy ones, so don't refer to him as a difficulty mapper, he dislikes that himself.

eldnl wrote:

TheVileOne wrote:

Is BIG BLACK considered a gimmick? Would you make a full spread for that song? I doubt it would even be possible to make a full spread. The simpler difficulties would be unplayable. I don't think it qualifies as a gimmick though. Difficulty is not a gimmick by normal definitions.
Big Black is practically mapped at 180bpm, it is totally possible to create an easier difficulty.
Exactly, it IS already undermapped. Undermapping it even more will just feel stupid to play (one slider -> 8465643 MAIN beats passing by)
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Zarerion wrote:

eldnl wrote:

Big Black is practically mapped at 180bpm, it is totally possible to create an easier difficulty.
Exactly, it IS already undermapped. Undermapping it even more will just feel stupid to play (one slider -> 8465643 MAIN beats passing by)
it isn't undermapped. every foreground beat you hear in the song is mapped, so in fact, it is neither over- nor undermapped.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Wait Zarerion, you know why the BPM needed to be dropped at 360, right?

That the BPM is halfed makes absolutely no Difference - except the Main Reason why it hasn't the Original BPM.
The Map is "perfectly" mapped to the Song. And: It's pretty easy to map lower Diff for this kind of Songs.
Mismagius
9,239 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

eldnl wrote:

TheVileOne wrote:

Is BIG BLACK considered a gimmick? Would you make a full spread for that song? I doubt it would even be possible to make a full spread. The simpler difficulties would be unplayable. I don't think it qualifies as a gimmick though. Difficulty is not a gimmick by normal definitions.
Big Black is practically mapped at 180bpm, it is totally possible to create an easier difficulty.
No, it's mapped at 720. Get your facts right. I'm the mapper, and I've never said that. It was mapped at 720 and intended to be 720. If it sounds 180 to you then too bad.

And yes, maps like Big Black/Airman are gimmicks because they are more about difficulty than any other mapping element.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

Blue Dragon wrote:

No, it's mapped at 720. Get your facts right. I'm the mapper, and I've never said that. It was mapped at 720 and intended to be 720. If it sounds 180 to you then too bad.
While being mapped at 720, you will play it like a 180 BPM map with some sliderjumps, sorry for wording that badly.

Tanzklaue wrote:

it isn't undermapped. every foreground beat you hear in the song is mapped, so in fact, it is neither over- nor undermapped.
it actually is.
there are many unmapped sounds.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Zarerion wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

it isn't undermapped. every foreground beat you hear in the song is mapped, so in fact, it is neither over- nor undermapped.
it actually is.
there are many unmapped sounds.
..where? Are you talking about things like 00:20:204, 00:38:939 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) or 01:03:918 (3) ?..

Maybe BD just avoided to overmap it and for that he put 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 1/2 Breaks there. You can't tell me that TBB is undermapped. It isn't because of the halfed BPM or for not being a pure Streamer Map.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
It would still make a terrible full spread. There will be 1/16th sounds that will need to be mapped with 1/1 sliders. How bad will that sound? The tick rate will not even line up during some parts, and if you set the tick rate high, each slider would just be a spam of sound. Bad sounding sliders are the main reason why I don't think all songs need full spread. There are plenty of songs that just sound terrible when you simplify the beat and if you try to fix this problem, it greatly increases the difficulty of the map. It's very difficult to create a balance and sometimes the mapper just need to settle for a subpar sounding difficulty.
Saturnalize
1,490 posts
Joined March 2011
Saturnalize
Are we talking about approval criteria or BD's map?
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
The BATs are discussing amendments to this rule in the BAT/MAT sub forum. It doesn't matter what is discussed in this thread anymore. The general consensus among the BATs is that the current rule is insufficient and needs to be changed. The BATs will come to a decision on how it will be changed.

I've kept up with the BAT discussion and it's leaning towards raising the marathon minimum length to 8 minutes, and having anything below 8 minutes go through an approval system by 3 BATs based on various criteria about the song and the feasible mappability of that song. There is still discussion whether criteria is going to be specific and open to any type of song given that the mapset contains a Hard difficulty. Certain songs/ mapping approaches can be considered as focused towards the upper skill range and thus do not need to include the lower difficulty sets.

This rule is moving into new and interesting directions.

You can keep up with the latest discussions here.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
Approval will remain the domain of marathon maps as it always has, as the ranking criteria gives plenty of provisions to allow for most maps. Gimmicky or non-mode mapsets can be assessed on an individual basis and do not require explicit mention within the criteria itself.
Kyouren
5,583 posts
Joined October 2012
Kyouren
Excuse me, I want to ask
Why this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/93850 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/95746 is approved whereas the time 5:59?
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

gokugohan12468 wrote:

Excuse me, I want to ask
Why this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/93850 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/95746 is approved whereas the time 5:59?
Because BATs aren't assholes lol like are you seriously gonna deny a nigga an approved map because of like 1 second. I'd understand maybe 30 seconds, but 1 second honestly isn't even noticable in a song, and it'd be kind of dickish of the staff to not make an exception for something so slight.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

gokugohan12468 wrote:

Excuse me, I want to ask
Why this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/93850 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/95746 is approved whereas the time 5:59?
Well, because website is bugged and shows 5:59 instead of 6:03 (before it didn't count end of map where spinner ends, but where it started, so it had shorter time then it really has. Reported it ~3 months ago, but they fixed it only ingame, not on website.
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