Oh, okay then. It just sounded kinda complicated to me. But yes, its true even I hate high AR on easier ones altough I mostly use AR9 on my Rains. Well, the song itself is always fast enough to handle it.
Maybe because we don't know how to use iteldnl wrote:
AR10 haters everywhere :<
sadly this. sure its fun, but its hella fast most of the time.ZHSteven wrote:
because of the extreme speed.
i dont think having played an AR10 diff should never be a prerequisite for someone to map a map with that AR. you're just giving more restrictions to mapping style.ZHSteven wrote:
that is why I want to make sure people mapping AR10 MUST have played AR10 before, and know which pattern for AR10 is fun, which is not.
Edit: Since it is really hard to define "experience" in an accurate way, I have no choice but to choose 2. I totally against to write details in so called"rules".Drafura wrote:
Sadly this can't be a guideline. We can't say "no you'll not map AR10 cause you're too noob at it lol!!!1!".
I think for AR10 there's two way to go :
1) Restrict to a specific mapping with something like : "All jumps should be visible on the screen at the moment the player have to start the movement. (sightreadable)"
2) No guidelines : Let mappers do as they want and try to balance the diffs with the modding process.
The second choice is more creative but will obviously make the ranking process way more long (And actually even with the first choice it will be long).
If someone have any other ideas on how to proceed, it would be welcome. Just make sure the idea is about the map not the mapper.
I mean, if people cant see the difference between AR9 and AR10, there is a great chance that they use AR9 mapping style to map AR10 which is totally wrong. You are a experienced AR10 mapper and player I believe you know this.eldnl wrote:
I disagree with you, Steven, not because you can't play it properly we shouldn't use it like everything else, with time and practice, people with get used to it someday, and if you can't, play the previous difficulty!
lol I see~~just a joke~eldnl wrote:
With you I don't mean YOU but you.
I mean what I say is just a joke, I know you know what I know(oh dam what does it mean)eldnl wrote:
It is not a joke, but I don't know how to explain it.
Drafura wrote:
2) No guidelines : Let mappers do as they want and try to balance the diffs with the modding process.
You're confusing HR and AR10. AR10 doesn't make more hyperdashes, HR or smaller fruits do it.Seph wrote:
It doesn't do anything special except speed up the fruits, make more hyperdashes appear and etc.
I am pretty sure that you mean HR AR8,9 map or AR10 transition map not AR10 specific map.Seph wrote:
AR10 does make more hyperdashes appear compared to other ARs combined with smaller fruits
in case you dont believe me, get a map with jumps, with AR8, 9 and 10 and compare hyperfruit spawn
Totally agree this.Drafura wrote:
Hyperdashes are the best friends of AR10 mapping, cause they're allways readable. Of course overusing them doesn't make the map playable. I'm not against memorisation in AR10 but I think it should be kept for key parts of the song (3-4 jumps to learn is enough most of the time imo). About jumpy patterns if they fits perfectly with the song they can be considered as intuitive.
[/quote]Drafura wrote:
About the bpm I agree with Sey so I scrolled over 146 AR10 maps and the critical point (imo) seems to be 170 Bpm, at this point the map doesn't fit most of the time the low density makes the map much less sightreadable, and you'll have to memorize a huge amount of jumps. So I can propose around 180 bpm as a prerequist of AR10 mapping in CtB, what's your opinion ? (Keep in mind that this is all about timeline, wich means a high use of 1/4 on a low bpm song could be good enough for AR10 if the (base bpm)*2 <= 180 and vice versa)
Sey wrote:
Guidelines could look like this:Any better ideas or concrete examples?
- Only highly professional mappers with a great deal of experience should make use of AR10. You have to know what makes an AR10 song still enjoyable to play, and not everybody has enough qualification to deal with such an enormous speed.
how can we defferentiate highly professional mappers to normal mappers? also as Drafura says, "Just make sure the idea is about the map not the mapper. "- BPM needs to be seen as basis for those decisions. 120BPM plus AR10 for example cannot be matched up. If it's a song with fast rhythm and almost explosive beats it might work, but only if you have enough experience.
Actually I dont see a must to restrict BPM for AR10 map, but I will keep my thoughts about BPM anyway=.=- You must be sure that your patterns are fc'able with AR10. If not better don't use it till you gained more mapping experience. You can also ask other CTB players to testplay your map but keep in mind that only a few are capable of playing AR10.
I agree with this
I agree CS affects hyperdash generation, but I never encountered an AR change wich generates more or less hyperdashes. Can you give me an example of hyperdashes wich are affected only by AR ?Seph wrote:
it was comparison to maps, thats why i said try doing it on a map and change its AR, and also smaller fruits affects the spawn.
Don't ask for examples, it doesn't happen. The hyperdash system has nothing to do with the speed of falling of the notes.Drafura wrote:
I agree CS affects hyperdash generation, but I never encountered an AR change wich generates more or less hyperdashes. Can you give me an example of hyperdashes wich are affected only by AR ?Seph wrote:
it was comparison to maps, thats why i said try doing it on a map and change its AR, and also smaller fruits affects the spawn.
http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_CriteriaRanking Criteria wrote:
The mapset must have a well-designed spread of difficulties, [...]
That was the point of making this thread, but it went a bit offtopic with AR10 mapping. It wasn't made pretending to include any new Rule/Guideline, but to have a small guide like: http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/InsaneOnosakiHito wrote:
I would rather suggest you to make a Guide out of this(as we are doing it for Taiko atm) and add it as closed sticky thread after you are done with your discussion.
After all, you explain how to make a good spread, so as guide this would fit better. It doesn't even need to be strict, rather approximately.
My bad, didn't understood it this way.Deif wrote:
That was the point of making this thread, but it went a bit offtopic with AR10 mapping. It wasn't made pretending to include any new Rule/Guideline, but to have a small guide like: http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/InsaneOnosakiHito wrote:
I would rather suggest you to make a Guide out of this(as we are doing it for Taiko atm) and add it as closed sticky thread after you are done with your discussion.
After all, you explain how to make a good spread, so as guide this would fit better. It doesn't even need to be strict, rather approximately.
That's a topic to discuss here: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/87. Please, stay on-topic and let's make this basic guide.Sey wrote:
I want to start a new topic here. What do you people think of distance between note and spinner?
For now Ranking Criterias say:
"Avoid placing notes closer than 1/2 to a spinner (1/2 is acceptable) as far as possible. This is because, depending on the BPM of the song and length of the spinner self, fruits are largely indistinguishable from spinner fruits when too close together."
Especially the second part distracts me. On which BPM can we say that fruits are indistinguishable from spinner fruits? Do you all agree on a 1/2 distance? This should be explained more detailed in the Ranking Criterias.
Please give some opinions.
Take a look at this.Krah wrote:
Platter: Some easy HDashes can be used with caution.Serioulsy this one isn't satisfied for a huge number of platter.
Probably because this guideline isn't clear.
Even in old mapset like this http://osu.ppy.sh/b/247642, can this pattern 01:33:397 (1,2,3) - be considered like "easy hdash" ?
Or in more recent maps http://osu.ppy.sh/b/308262, this kind of thing 00:04:714 (3,4) -
But if there is only "easy dash" there is no more interest in platter.
Seph wrote:
That's supposedly a Rain imo.
ZHSteven wrote:
about difficulty, in my opinion,
CUP: should be able to FC without dash.
means nothing.... if it must say, mean to be kind to all players
Salad: should not contain 1/3 or lower(1/4, 1/6, etc) dashes, and i think Hdashes could be introduced if it really fit the map.
challenge to new comers, but easily HRed, DTed by normal players.
Platter: may contain 1/4 jumps, but try to use them wisely. also 1/4 Hdashes not recommended at all. So does the tricky streams.
challenge to normal players, but not hard to FC. easily HR+HD, DT+HD by skillful players.
Rain: only extremely pattern cannot be used.(continuous reverse jump, max normal jump, 1/4 varies spacing big jump, tricky jump, etc)
Challenge in FC for skillful players, but easily being HDed by top players.
Overdose: no limitation so long as they fit the map.GO IN HELL!!! request for an "S"(jk wwwww