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Newbie #9 - Knock! Knock! Knock! (Game End)

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Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Sakura wrote:

If so then explain to me how wagons dont give information and how puttinv votes everywhere without reason helps finding scum.
Well, some people might not really analyze the situation, don't know what to vote, and just vote something, that they voted something.
Sakura, I saw that you analyze the game pretty closely all the time, which is a good thing, yet I can't really appreciate it, since you put pressure on one person, and at the end you vote him for those reasons, just because he wrote something, without much relation to the other people.


@Dake, a silly vote for kookook because he wanted to make a reaction test? are there any other reasons, or did your mind change ?

Some more activity would really be cool, since I can only see sakura main posting.. and some others.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I am looking at the other people actually, seeing the tone and motivation behind their posts in the way they vote or stay off the wagon or push something else, wagons generate reactions, not necessarily only from the person being wagoned but from the people outside of the wagon (like what you're replying right now) even if the votes were random.

Here's some insight for you, do you really think that people just roll a die and vote whoever the die tells them? All people have at the start of the game is the information on their Role PM, as much as they want their votes to be random, they won't be.

If by the end everyone has voted and everyone has 1 vote on them, then yeah that won't give much info, which is why I encourage people getting at least 2 votes (or 3 or 4 in larger games) during RVS, then people are forced to take a stance, which eliminates hiding places for scum.

I know your stance already, you dont think kookookook is scum, which is why you're doubting the wagon is heading in the right direction, that's already info to work with, even without you directly participating in the wagon.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Btw Irre, the mod never posted that he issued prods, yet you came back right away when I asked for you (among others) to be prodded, so you literally just showed that you are indeed reading the thread but not posting, you're actively lurking, why?
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Sakura wrote:

I am looking at the other people actually, seeing the tone and motivation behind their posts in the way they vote or stay off the wagon or push something else, wagons generate reactions, not necessarily only from the person being wagoned but from the people outside of the wagon (like what you're replying right now) even if the votes were random.

Here's some insight for you, do you really think that people just roll a die and vote whoever the die tells them? All people have at the start of the game is the information on their Role PM, as much as they want their votes to be random, they won't be.

If by the end everyone has voted and everyone has 1 vote on them, then yeah that won't give much info, which is why I encourage people getting at least 2 votes (or 3 or 4 in larger games) during RVS, then people are forced to take a stance, which eliminates hiding places for scum.

I know your stance already, you dont think kookookook is scum, which is why you're doubting the wagon is heading in the right direction, that's already info to work with, even without you directly participating in the wagon.
Never said I don't think he's not scum, and yeah good point with the wagonning. Then go on working with things you've just invented (the scum part), if it'll help you, why not.

About the posting, as soon as I came back i've wrote that I will post my statement later, what I've actually done. But I really don't think i need to prove that I was away for overnight and didn't have access to the internet. School Sakura, School.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
So instead of carefully addressing my points you go into discredit session, good job, you've earned yourself a vote
Unvote

Vote: Irreversible
I cannot see any town motivation behind that last post of yours at all.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
That was so obvious, well w/e lol
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Prod dodge.

@Irre, that's not a silly vote, I still find weird that this post is meant to be a reaction test for Sakura.

Also:

kookookook wrote:

I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.
This is still calling my attention. So I'm sticking to that vote.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

DakeDekaane wrote:

kookookook wrote:

I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.
This is still calling my attention. So I'm sticking to that vote.
for some reason this makes me think that it's his way of saying "I'm not a Vanilla, I've got a PR". might've been overinterpretting things, though.
SeiinaAraki
4 posts
Joined August 2013
SeiinaAraki
nuuu don't prod me.
I promise not to quickhammer, too.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
FoS: rEdo

Saki: Who's scum.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I'm actually thinking irreversible has higher chance of flipping scum, but i kind of feel bad because i have that feeling every game with him =/

Mostly trying to discredit me when I wasn't even attacking him, smells of chainsaw or WK.
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy

Irreversible wrote:

Never said I don't think he's not scum, and yeah good point with the wagonning. Then go on working with things you've just invented (the scum part), if it'll help you, why not.
Wait, you agree that wagoning helps generate reactions and then flip around and say the stances taken after wagon don't do anything?

Irreversible wrote:

@Dake, a silly vote for kookook because he wanted to make a reaction test? are there any other reasons, or did your mind change?

Irreversible wrote:

Never said I don't think [kookookook is] not scum. (Double negative?)
This part isn't quite reading right to me for some reason. Like, he considers votes on kook "silly", and then tries to back out of Sakura's interpretation that he thinks kook isn't scum, a bit too defensively.

What's WK, by the way?
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy
Rephrase: He considers Dake's vote on kook silly, not just any vote on kook
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
WK = White knighting, when scum protect a townie for town cred, kinda like buddying taken to the extreme.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Please tell me you two see what's wrong with rEdo's statement.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
He's trying to rolefish? that's all I see, either that or he's implying he knows kookookook is scum.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
EBWODP: he knows kookookook is town.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
He's openly PR-hunting. Town doesn't want to do this at the very least on D1; even if they see something like this, making it public is very anti-town.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

Sakura wrote:

EBWODP: he knows kookookook is town.
I don't know if he's town, it just looks like a slight newbie's play for claiming town with some role to me... or so I'd say if he wasn't lying.

CalignoBot wrote:

He's openly PR-hunting. Town doesn't want to do this at the very least on D1; even if they see something like this, making it public is very anti-town.
ain't necessarily PR-hunting, I already said I wanna hear from him at first, and that way of talking is supposed to be a motivator for him to prove that he's not scum. I already mentioned he's a suspect to me, so if he won't talk, I'm okay with using a vote on him.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura


Guess this explains why he hasnt posted.
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
Sorry for inactivity. I don't really have anything to add. I suck at D1, sorry.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Royston wrote:

Sorry for inactivity. I don't really have anything to add. I suck at D1, sorry.
At least try to do something?
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
Well, I can offer moral support.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
If you're not gonna play I rather you replace out, I don't like people that sit down and do nothing.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
Sakura, it doesn't matter what I say, you always attack me immediately, and try to get me out. It has nearly always been like this. Either I say, he's scum, i get voted by you, he's not scum, i get voted by you, it just doesn't matter at all.

@Jinxy: Could you rephrase "Wait, you agree that wagoning helps generate reactions and then flip around and say the stances taken after wagon don't do anything?" ? I don't really understand what you're trying to ask me.

With my statement "I've never said kook is not scum' I just wanted to say, that i don't know if he's scum or not yet, that's all, lol.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Irreversible wrote:

Sakura, it doesn't matter what I say, you always attack me immediately, and try to get me out. It has nearly always been like this. Either I say, he's scum, i get voted by you, he's not scum, i get voted by you, it just doesn't matter at all.
So first i'm inventing, now I'm biased, how much else are you gonna pull to discredit me?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Irreversible wrote:

With my statement "I've never said kook is not scum' I just wanted to say, that i don't know if he's scum or not yet, that's all, lol.
And what are you doing to find out whether he is scum or not?
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy

Irreversible wrote:

@Jinxy: Could you rephrase "Wait, you agree that wagoning helps generate reactions and then flip around and say the stances taken after wagon don't do anything?" ? I don't really understand what you're trying to ask me.

Irreversible wrote:

and yeah good point with the wagonning. Then go on working with things you've just invented (the scum part), if it'll help you, why not.
Basically, you say Sakura has a good point that wagoning generates reactions, then you say that Sakura was just "inventing" the idea that people being forced to take a stance will make it harder for scum to hide. These two parts don't mesh at all, taking a stance is a reaction.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Sakura wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

Sakura, it doesn't matter what I say, you always attack me immediately, and try to get me out. It has nearly always been like this. Either I say, he's scum, i get voted by you, he's not scum, i get voted by you, it just doesn't matter at all.
So first i'm inventing, now I'm biased, how much else are you gonna pull to discredit me?
Try to feel how I do, I don't discredit you at all, it's just quite annoying that it doesn't matter at all what I write, I'm the bad one for you.... but yeah, just do what ever you want, I shouldn't go on discussing about it, since you'll surely use this against me at one point for sure. Sorry for that I think like this, but yeah.

For your other question, I'm waiting until the others post, since I don't wanna focus on kookook only, although it would be helpful to know what he thinks about all this.

@Jinxy: It is a good idea to get reactions, but at the end everything is like "OMG THIS IS SO SUSPICIOUS", the people get voted, all others 'wagon' as well, and that's it.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Sakura wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

With my statement "I've never said kook is not scum' I just wanted to say, that i don't know if he's scum or not yet, that's all, lol.
And what are you doing to find out whether he is scum or not?
And please don't tell me it's wrong now to wait until the others post. It's just the activity, since not many people are posting frequently.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
It's not wrong to wait until others post, but so far you've done a big bunch of nothing in terms of scumhunting.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Hope these help you get started, they are quite good guides.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19001
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15932
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo
now that was mean, Sakura :­(

Irreversible and Sakura's fight besides...

Vote: kookookook
I'm kinda tired of him not talking at all. I'm certain I must've overinterpretted that so called "weird PR call". he either randomly dropped by, saying "this setups are boring XXDXDXD won't be plaid" and stopped playing the game, or he's unexperienced scum and he doesn't want to talk at all, despite being asked for it.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Unvote: kookookook

Hold on a sec. I gotta think through a couple things.

Also don't want to risk a lynch since I believe KKK was at L-1.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Hey, Sakura vs Irre, again~

I think we should wait, if he doesn't post, then we could lynch him.

That was a risky move rEdo, but the fact that he doesn't even trying to defend himself is worrying me a bit.

@Irre, who would you focus on besides kook?
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
Lilac
Oh yeah, prodded 4 people by the way, votecount will happen soon when I've got more Ratboy Genius.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
CalignoBot, this unvote happens really all of a sudden, doesn't it? Couldn't you think about this earlier instead of vote so early?
@Dake: ^ Should answer your question
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
Um, I'm pretty sure he unvoted to avoid having kook at L-1. He said that in his post...
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Nope, if my count is right he's at 2 votes right now. I changed my vote to Irreversible earlier, whch is why i think rEdo voted since it wouldnt put him at L-1 anymore.

kookookook is being useless atm because he's not posting, imo he's going to be a liability for town no matter what and should be lynched anyway, he had a 48 hours silence during which he couldn't post but after that he still hasn't posted, he's been prodded I assume and probably eventually replaced out, if it happens then we may get a deadline extension, so I guess it should be better to let the slot be for the time being.

While that happens let's discuss Irreversible's reactions towards kookookook's wagon and his discrediting me.
SeiinaAraki
4 posts
Joined August 2013
SeiinaAraki
< was prodded sharply in the side. That hurts~

Anyhow, I really don't think a lot of the discussion right now is holding ground.
It might just be the avatars and pink background that doesn't make me take people seriously.
But the game's moving slowly. There's accusations of 'rolefishing' and 'misrep' but I don't quite see how that is going to lead to anything.
Especially if people haven't taken pressure yet.

Ugh
I'll try to get into this game soon with a VA-style readslist or something
just wait

btw what's the equivalent of an ISO on this forum
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