Interesting generalization there. How do you know that this game has pre-game chat?Sakura wrote:
No, scum get chat during pre-game.
forum
Newbie #9 - Knock! Knock! Knock! (Game End)
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If it's the same setup as the one in the wiki link that appeared, and is a newbie game, then it's very likely scum does not have daychat.Jinxy wrote:
Interesting generalization there. How do you know that this game has pre-game chat?Sakura wrote:
No, scum get chat during pre-game.
Or maybe im just assuming things due to playing this setup over 10 times.
Wrong. Scum don't want a 1v1 they most likely won't win.SenaSaki wrote:
scum doesn't want a 1v1 ever
Now you're just going into fake analysis territory.SenaSaki wrote:
and i doubt scum sakura would buddy up to me
well now that i think about it it might be a fake townslip
I've yet to see a single mafia game where mafia don't get pre-game chat. It's a very safe assumption.
fun fact: the last person to post in a thread has a 2 in 9 chance of being mafia
Just the same chance of everyone else, try againRoyston wrote:
fun fact: the last person to post in a thread has a 2 in 9 chance of being mafia
Another fact: The last person to post in a thread has a 7 in 9 chance of being town-aligned.
What do you guys think the set-up is? I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.
What do you guys think the set-up is? I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.
Man all the IIoA, it hurts.
Then vote him with me.CalignoBot wrote:
kookookook is scum too.
This. Sakura must be scum.Sakura wrote:
Then vote him with me.CalignoBot wrote:
kookookook is scum too.
Within 1 post you have acertained
IIoA.
Inside Information.
Rolefishing.
You must be new at this if can't see how this all points towards you being scum.
IIoA.
Inside Information.
Rolefishing.
You must be new at this if can't see how this all points towards you being scum.
Trying to persuade someone to vote other which has a vote already in D1 is a mafia behaviour.
Only mafia will try to end the day as soon as possible.
Only mafia will try to end the day as soon as possible.
Wagons give information, putting votes everywhere without reason doesn't.kookookook wrote:
Trying to persuade someone to vote other which has a vote already in D1 is a mafia behaviour.
Only mafia will try to end the day as soon as possible.
@kookookook: why do you want to know about the setup?
It's the reaction test that I'd like to see how Sakura reacted.
His reaction was obviously scum.
His reaction was obviously scum.
Better question, what's the motivation behind trying to speculate about the setup.DakeDekaane wrote:
@kookookook: why do you want to know about the setup?
If it was really a Reaction Test then pray tell what were you looking for as a "Townie reaction"
Your first post, but not the second.Sakura wrote:
If it was really a Reaction Test then pray tell what were you looking for as a "Townie reaction"
So saying you're scum for IIoA was townie but asking CalignoBot for voting you for the same reason is scummy?
Asking CalignoBot to vote. ppl will vote in their posts if they think it's necessary. Rushing is never a good way, especially in the start of a day.
No reply huh? Well not like I was expecting you to reply so quick but I was expecting something before going to sleep.
At least now there's enough information to go around and start scumhunting, and I'm gonna be mad if I see people doing more RVS stuff (I'm looking at you Saki... just kidding)
At least now there's enough information to go around and start scumhunting, and I'm gonna be mad if I see people doing more RVS stuff (I'm looking at you Saki... just kidding)
Oh nvm, you actually replied while i was typing.
I disagree. Rushing is a good way to start getting reads from people out of reactions and forming stances based on the current wagons, which gives scum less places to hide.kookookook wrote:
Asking CalignoBot to vote. ppl will vote in their posts if they think it's necessary. Rushing is never a good way, especially in the start of a day.
Btw, reaction tests are only reaction tests when they catch people by surprise, all your "Reaction test" did was make you look more scummy, if you're somehow town i suggest you change your way of approaching things because you arent doing very well.
In either case, gotta head to bed, work tomorrow, hope to see more activity in this thread.
So this was a "reaction test" directed to Sakura? really?
Maybe I should Vote: kookookook.
Maybe I should Vote: kookookook.
Yes. 5 minutes right after his post.DakeDekaane wrote:
So this was a "reaction test" directed to Sakura? really?
Maybe I should Vote: kookookook.
Hm. Interesting.
I'll keep my vote on Saki. Don't make the thread implode while I sleep.
I'll keep my vote on Saki. Don't make the thread implode while I sleep.
Topic Starter
Votecount 1.1:
Sakura (1) - SenaSaki
Irreversible (1) - Royston
Royston (1) - kookookook
kookookook (1) - Sakura
CalignoBot (1) - DakeDekaane
SenaSaki (1) - CalignoBot
You guys are terrible, some of you didn't even read the rules properly. Ratboy Genius will knock at your door and you'll pay for your sins. Face the wrath of Little King John.
seconded. knowing the setup won't do much for us, it'll be better for scum. maybe that's why you wanna know?DakeDekaane wrote:
@kookookook: why do you want to know about the setup?
Oops~
Unvote
Vote: kookookook
Forgive me my master, it wasn't my intention.
Unvote
Vote: kookookook
Forgive me my master, it wasn't my intention.
Keep in mind that mafia already has some knowledge of the setup, based on if they have a roleblocker or not.rEdo wrote:
seconded. knowing the setup won't do much for us, it'll be better for scum. maybe that's why you wanna know?DakeDekaane wrote:
@kookookook: why do you want to know about the setup?
well you guys caught me fairly quickly
@Royston: That's what i meant by Inside Information in one of the things i had against kookookook
yup, they can narrow up to two possibilities: either {B, C, 1, 3} if they've got two Goons or {A, 2} if they've got a roleblocker, which I hope isn't the case this time. we have no idea what's the scenario, though, so I guess it would be safer to consider that they've got a roleblocker, just in case it's actually true.Royston wrote:
Keep in mind that mafia already has some knowledge of the setup, based on if they have a roleblocker or not.
Not always. I can remember this really well of my first mafia game.Sakura wrote:
Wagons give information, putting votes everywhere without reason doesn't.kookookook wrote:
Trying to persuade someone to vote other which has a vote already in D1 is a mafia behaviour.
Only mafia will try to end the day as soon as possible.
If so then explain to me how wagons dont give information and how puttinv votes everywhere without reason helps finding scum.
Pretty much, yeah.CalignoBot wrote:
Does Saki always play like this?
Saki games I've seen.
First Saki game, he was town i was scum
We were both town
We were both town
We were both town
We were both town <- This one's a pretty good look since we both did 1v1 on D1.
I was town he was scum, but he got force-replaced out D1 (hi tsukasa)
First Saki game, he was town i was scum
We were both town
We were both town
We were both town
We were both town <- This one's a pretty good look since we both did 1v1 on D1.
I was town he was scum, but he got force-replaced out D1 (hi tsukasa)
And here's when I suddenly realize i've played a lot of games with Saki
I'm heavily against using outside experience for meta arguments, so I'll just assume you know what you're talking about for now.
[unvote]SenaSaki[/unvote]
[vote]kookookook[/vote]
[unvote]SenaSaki[/unvote]
[vote]kookookook[/vote]
Topic Starter
This is not MS.net.
Please remember that in future, thanks.
Please remember that in future, thanks.
Wait, could you explain exactly which part of his posts showed inside info? I get the IIoA and Fishing from his setup speculation post, but not the inside info part.Sakura wrote:
@Royston: That's what i meant by Inside Information in one of the things i had against kookookook
This is pinging to me slightly. You don't like to use outside experience, but you just stop voting Sena because of what Sakura posted?CalignoBot wrote:
I'm heavily against using outside experience for meta arguments, so I'll just assume you know what you're talking about for now.
And I'm the only one on this side of the earth for this game aren't I
He seems to know close to what setups are in play.Jinxy wrote:
Wait, could you explain exactly which part of his posts showed inside info? I get the IIoA and Fishing from his setup speculation post, but not the inside info part.Sakura wrote:
@Royston: That's what i meant by Inside Information in one of the things i had against kookookook
That does not answer my question at all
Which part of his posts
Which part of his posts
This one.
kookookook wrote:
What do you guys think the set-up is? I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.
...Yes, and I'm asking how that's inside info. It's major IIoA and minor rolefishing, but I don't see how thinking it's not certain setups is knowing something we don't.
He's already ruling out 2 possible setups for apparently no reason.
Wait a second, how the heck, is that statement major IIoA (the IIoA part i was talking about was the 7 in 9 chance of someone being town, which is weird to point out specially after I mentioned how useless that statement was). It's unknown information so it cant be IIoA.
Oh. Well, I thought that was what you meant by IIoA, from the wiki statement: "players who speculate about the setup more than they ask for other players' reasoning and/or accuse other players of being scum are probably group scum". I don't usually use all these terms myself.
It pretty much depends on context and wording, setup speculation at that point is no information, NOR analysis (There's nothing to analyze about the setup yet as there aren't no flips or claims)
Ok, I see. Back to the other thing:
That's all that caught my attention for now, going to bed soon. Would be nice if Cali talked a bit about why he just dropped Sena despite being "against using outside experience for meta arguments". Night.
I can see where you're coming from, but to me it reads more as a really dumb reason (can't be x because x is boring) than no reason. Besides, if he did know inside information which allows him to rule out setups, I really don't think he would just freely talk about it, even as a random post.Sakura wrote:
He's already ruling out 2 possible setups for apparently no reason.
That's all that caught my attention for now, going to bed soon. Would be nice if Cali talked a bit about why he just dropped Sena despite being "against using outside experience for meta arguments". Night.
If you know me, you'd know I analyze anything (even RVS reasons), due to the fact that in the very first pages of the game scum still hasn't settled into it, and all the information people have for starting to find information is their Role PM, maybe such things wont become apparent now, but as the game goes on you'll realize that most probably he has a reason for saying those things.
Also i do totally see your point on CalignoBot it's pinging me in the wrong direction as well since you mentioned it, so I'd like to hear his answer to that as well.
Also i do totally see your point on CalignoBot it's pinging me in the wrong direction as well since you mentioned it, so I'd like to hear his answer to that as well.
kook's saying that these setups are boring could be a slight way to claim a role, you know. he could've wanted to narrow up the possible setups, in order for us to give hints about his role, so I wouldn't be that sure about suspecting him right away.
but yeah, I kinda question myself what would be the reason for that...
but yeah, I kinda question myself what would be the reason for that...
In that case it makes it even MORE suspicious, no PR would give him/herself away this soon without heavy fire at them, consider that he started getting voted by other people after that statement, not before.
sounds interesting if that's how you think of it. I'd like to hear something from him first, though. kook, why did you think these two setups aren't likely to happen? are you really a PR, or just trying to cover up something you don't know?
FoS: kookookook
FoS: kookookook
It was just really shitty wording.Jinxy wrote:
This is pinging to me slightly. You don't like to use outside experience, but you just stop voting Sena because of what Sakura posted?CalignoBot wrote:
I'm heavily against using outside experience for meta arguments, so I'll just assume you know what you're talking about for now.
And I'm the only one on this side of the earth for this game aren't I
What I mean is using someone else's experience outside of your own. It's all well in good to understand how people think from playing with them several times, but it's a lot less convincing when someone with little to no experience playing with that person to go back to games they didn't play in to try to figure out how that person thinks second-hand.
Basically, going through and meta-diving is pretty useless in my eyes and I'm willing to accept the premise is true for now.
People need to post more often.
CalignoBot: You asked me if Saki is always like this, I said yes, I never said he was town, in fact I said he can pull this as either alignment (keyword being: "always") is that strong enough for you to unvote him?
CalignoBot: You asked me if Saki is always like this, I said yes, I never said he was town, in fact I said he can pull this as either alignment (keyword being: "always") is that strong enough for you to unvote him?
I was more asking whether trying to put pressure on him is going to be useful at all. The fact that you stated he was and were willing to prove it so easily is enough to convince me at this stage.
@Mod: prod anyone that can be prodded
I wonder if we're the only four that are actually into this game, huh. ._."
Speaking of Saki here's one thing you should be aware of, Saki loves to quickhammer regardless of alignment, so be careful with putting people at L-1
Sorry that I lacked of activity, I wasn't at home for overnight, i'll let you know what I think in a few hours at least.
Well, some people might not really analyze the situation, don't know what to vote, and just vote something, that they voted something.Sakura wrote:
If so then explain to me how wagons dont give information and how puttinv votes everywhere without reason helps finding scum.
Sakura, I saw that you analyze the game pretty closely all the time, which is a good thing, yet I can't really appreciate it, since you put pressure on one person, and at the end you vote him for those reasons, just because he wrote something, without much relation to the other people.
@Dake, a silly vote for kookook because he wanted to make a reaction test? are there any other reasons, or did your mind change ?
Some more activity would really be cool, since I can only see sakura main posting.. and some others.
I am looking at the other people actually, seeing the tone and motivation behind their posts in the way they vote or stay off the wagon or push something else, wagons generate reactions, not necessarily only from the person being wagoned but from the people outside of the wagon (like what you're replying right now) even if the votes were random.
Here's some insight for you, do you really think that people just roll a die and vote whoever the die tells them? All people have at the start of the game is the information on their Role PM, as much as they want their votes to be random, they won't be.
If by the end everyone has voted and everyone has 1 vote on them, then yeah that won't give much info, which is why I encourage people getting at least 2 votes (or 3 or 4 in larger games) during RVS, then people are forced to take a stance, which eliminates hiding places for scum.
I know your stance already, you dont think kookookook is scum, which is why you're doubting the wagon is heading in the right direction, that's already info to work with, even without you directly participating in the wagon.
Here's some insight for you, do you really think that people just roll a die and vote whoever the die tells them? All people have at the start of the game is the information on their Role PM, as much as they want their votes to be random, they won't be.
If by the end everyone has voted and everyone has 1 vote on them, then yeah that won't give much info, which is why I encourage people getting at least 2 votes (or 3 or 4 in larger games) during RVS, then people are forced to take a stance, which eliminates hiding places for scum.
I know your stance already, you dont think kookookook is scum, which is why you're doubting the wagon is heading in the right direction, that's already info to work with, even without you directly participating in the wagon.
Btw Irre, the mod never posted that he issued prods, yet you came back right away when I asked for you (among others) to be prodded, so you literally just showed that you are indeed reading the thread but not posting, you're actively lurking, why?
Never said I don't think he's not scum, and yeah good point with the wagonning. Then go on working with things you've just invented (the scum part), if it'll help you, why not.Sakura wrote:
I am looking at the other people actually, seeing the tone and motivation behind their posts in the way they vote or stay off the wagon or push something else, wagons generate reactions, not necessarily only from the person being wagoned but from the people outside of the wagon (like what you're replying right now) even if the votes were random.
Here's some insight for you, do you really think that people just roll a die and vote whoever the die tells them? All people have at the start of the game is the information on their Role PM, as much as they want their votes to be random, they won't be.
If by the end everyone has voted and everyone has 1 vote on them, then yeah that won't give much info, which is why I encourage people getting at least 2 votes (or 3 or 4 in larger games) during RVS, then people are forced to take a stance, which eliminates hiding places for scum.
I know your stance already, you dont think kookookook is scum, which is why you're doubting the wagon is heading in the right direction, that's already info to work with, even without you directly participating in the wagon.
About the posting, as soon as I came back i've wrote that I will post my statement later, what I've actually done. But I really don't think i need to prove that I was away for overnight and didn't have access to the internet. School Sakura, School.
So instead of carefully addressing my points you go into discredit session, good job, you've earned yourself a vote
Unvote
Vote: Irreversible
I cannot see any town motivation behind that last post of yours at all.
Unvote
Vote: Irreversible
I cannot see any town motivation behind that last post of yours at all.
That was so obvious, well w/e lol
Prod dodge.
@Irre, that's not a silly vote, I still find weird that this post is meant to be a reaction test for Sakura.
Also:
@Irre, that's not a silly vote, I still find weird that this post is meant to be a reaction test for Sakura.
Also:
This is still calling my attention. So I'm sticking to that vote.kookookook wrote:
I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.
for some reason this makes me think that it's his way of saying "I'm not a Vanilla, I've got a PR". might've been overinterpretting things, though.DakeDekaane wrote:
This is still calling my attention. So I'm sticking to that vote.kookookook wrote:
I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.
nuuu don't prod me.
I promise not to quickhammer, too.
I promise not to quickhammer, too.
I'm actually thinking irreversible has higher chance of flipping scum, but i kind of feel bad because i have that feeling every game with him =/
Mostly trying to discredit me when I wasn't even attacking him, smells of chainsaw or WK.
Mostly trying to discredit me when I wasn't even attacking him, smells of chainsaw or WK.
Wait, you agree that wagoning helps generate reactions and then flip around and say the stances taken after wagon don't do anything?Irreversible wrote:
Never said I don't think he's not scum, and yeah good point with the wagonning. Then go on working with things you've just invented (the scum part), if it'll help you, why not.
Irreversible wrote:
@Dake, a silly vote for kookook because he wanted to make a reaction test? are there any other reasons, or did your mind change?
This part isn't quite reading right to me for some reason. Like, he considers votes on kook "silly", and then tries to back out of Sakura's interpretation that he thinks kook isn't scum, a bit too defensively.Irreversible wrote:
Never said I don't think [kookookook is] not scum. (Double negative?)
What's WK, by the way?
Rephrase: He considers Dake's vote on kook silly, not just any vote on kook
WK = White knighting, when scum protect a townie for town cred, kinda like buddying taken to the extreme.
Please tell me you two see what's wrong with rEdo's statement.
He's trying to rolefish? that's all I see, either that or he's implying he knows kookookook is scum.
EBWODP: he knows kookookook is town.
He's openly PR-hunting. Town doesn't want to do this at the very least on D1; even if they see something like this, making it public is very anti-town.
I don't know if he's town, it just looks like a slight newbie's play for claiming town with some role to me... or so I'd say if he wasn't lying.Sakura wrote:
EBWODP: he knows kookookook is town.
ain't necessarily PR-hunting, I already said I wanna hear from him at first, and that way of talking is supposed to be a motivator for him to prove that he's not scum. I already mentioned he's a suspect to me, so if he won't talk, I'm okay with using a vote on him.CalignoBot wrote:
He's openly PR-hunting. Town doesn't want to do this at the very least on D1; even if they see something like this, making it public is very anti-town.
Guess this explains why he hasnt posted.
Sorry for inactivity. I don't really have anything to add. I suck at D1, sorry.
At least try to do something?Royston wrote:
Sorry for inactivity. I don't really have anything to add. I suck at D1, sorry.
If you're not gonna play I rather you replace out, I don't like people that sit down and do nothing.
Sakura, it doesn't matter what I say, you always attack me immediately, and try to get me out. It has nearly always been like this. Either I say, he's scum, i get voted by you, he's not scum, i get voted by you, it just doesn't matter at all.
@Jinxy: Could you rephrase "Wait, you agree that wagoning helps generate reactions and then flip around and say the stances taken after wagon don't do anything?" ? I don't really understand what you're trying to ask me.
With my statement "I've never said kook is not scum' I just wanted to say, that i don't know if he's scum or not yet, that's all, lol.
@Jinxy: Could you rephrase "Wait, you agree that wagoning helps generate reactions and then flip around and say the stances taken after wagon don't do anything?" ? I don't really understand what you're trying to ask me.
With my statement "I've never said kook is not scum' I just wanted to say, that i don't know if he's scum or not yet, that's all, lol.
So first i'm inventing, now I'm biased, how much else are you gonna pull to discredit me?Irreversible wrote:
Sakura, it doesn't matter what I say, you always attack me immediately, and try to get me out. It has nearly always been like this. Either I say, he's scum, i get voted by you, he's not scum, i get voted by you, it just doesn't matter at all.
And what are you doing to find out whether he is scum or not?Irreversible wrote:
With my statement "I've never said kook is not scum' I just wanted to say, that i don't know if he's scum or not yet, that's all, lol.
Irreversible wrote:
@Jinxy: Could you rephrase "Wait, you agree that wagoning helps generate reactions and then flip around and say the stances taken after wagon don't do anything?" ? I don't really understand what you're trying to ask me.
Basically, you say Sakura has a good point that wagoning generates reactions, then you say that Sakura was just "inventing" the idea that people being forced to take a stance will make it harder for scum to hide. These two parts don't mesh at all, taking a stance is a reaction.Irreversible wrote:
and yeah good point with the wagonning. Then go on working with things you've just invented (the scum part), if it'll help you, why not.
Try to feel how I do, I don't discredit you at all, it's just quite annoying that it doesn't matter at all what I write, I'm the bad one for you.... but yeah, just do what ever you want, I shouldn't go on discussing about it, since you'll surely use this against me at one point for sure. Sorry for that I think like this, but yeah.Sakura wrote:
So first i'm inventing, now I'm biased, how much else are you gonna pull to discredit me?Irreversible wrote:
Sakura, it doesn't matter what I say, you always attack me immediately, and try to get me out. It has nearly always been like this. Either I say, he's scum, i get voted by you, he's not scum, i get voted by you, it just doesn't matter at all.
For your other question, I'm waiting until the others post, since I don't wanna focus on kookook only, although it would be helpful to know what he thinks about all this.
@Jinxy: It is a good idea to get reactions, but at the end everything is like "OMG THIS IS SO SUSPICIOUS", the people get voted, all others 'wagon' as well, and that's it.
And please don't tell me it's wrong now to wait until the others post. It's just the activity, since not many people are posting frequently.Sakura wrote:
And what are you doing to find out whether he is scum or not?Irreversible wrote:
With my statement "I've never said kook is not scum' I just wanted to say, that i don't know if he's scum or not yet, that's all, lol.
It's not wrong to wait until others post, but so far you've done a big bunch of nothing in terms of scumhunting.
Hope these help you get started, they are quite good guides.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19001
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15932
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19001
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15932
now that was mean, Sakura :(
Irreversible and Sakura's fight besides...
Vote: kookookook
I'm kinda tired of him not talking at all. I'm certain I must've overinterpretted that so called "weird PR call". he either randomly dropped by, saying "this setups are boring XXDXDXD won't be plaid" and stopped playing the game, or he's unexperienced scum and he doesn't want to talk at all, despite being asked for it.
Irreversible and Sakura's fight besides...
Vote: kookookook
I'm kinda tired of him not talking at all. I'm certain I must've overinterpretted that so called "weird PR call". he either randomly dropped by, saying "this setups are boring XXDXDXD won't be plaid" and stopped playing the game, or he's unexperienced scum and he doesn't want to talk at all, despite being asked for it.