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[osu!mania] Hold ends shall not count into "6 notes" limit

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Total Posts
19
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
You are not allowed to put more than 6 notes simultaneously.
Considering most keyboards use USB connections which do not allow 7 simultaneous presses, we make this rule to help more people enjoy the game.
After discussing this case with peppy internally, I wanted to clarify this rule.

Objecting this rule regarding borderline cases like this:



Actually, I agree with not having "7 objects to be placed on the same time" that are supposed to be "PRESSED".
But I disagree that "hold ends" are counted into this rule, because holdends are no objects that are supposed to be PRESSED but to be released, thus won't cause ghosting, because you release 2 keys to press 5 others (which will not cause ghsoting, since you don't PRESS more than 6 keys)

So concluding to this, I want the rule to be changed to the following (new sentence is written italic):

You are not allowed to put more than 6 notes simultaneously.
Considering most keyboards use USB connections which do not allow 7 simultaneous presses, we make this rule to help more people enjoy the game. The end of hold notes are an exception, because they are released and not pressed.
Discuss.
SapphireGhost
osu! Alumni
2,618 posts
Joined June 2010
SapphireGhost
The end of hold notes do not count into this, since they don't require to be pressed but released.
The end of hold notes are an exception, because they are released and not pressed.
It looks better with the wording adjusted slightly.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Agreeing here, adjusted the OP
chonicle
201 posts
Joined August 2009
chonicle
I'm not sure about ppy's view on this but 6 note limit is basically set by ppy. Most mappers will be happy if holds end doesn't count in the 7-key rule, thus allow more style to come into osu!mania. I support this o.o
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
peppy said that hold-ends shouldn't be counted into this rule, since, like I said, they are "released and not pressed".
I can send you the log about it, but unfortunately I am not able to publish it.
Maiz94
1,376 posts
Joined June 2010
Maiz94
If 3 holds and 4 notes at the end of the hold ends between them :



does that also counts as into 6 notes limit at the end of them?

If no, I definitely want this rule to be changed. I'm craving to use that pattern above to be used for my map. :d
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
End of holds do not count. Factually it means that you have 4 simultaneous notes on your example, not 7.
At least I want to clarify that with this rule change.
chonicle
201 posts
Joined August 2009
chonicle

Loctav wrote:

peppy said that hold-ends shouldn't be counted into this rule, since, like I said, they are "released and not pressed".
I can send you the log about it, but unfortunately I am not able to publish it.
Well I think that makes sense then, we can push this forward.
xxbidiao
450 posts
Joined November 2008
xxbidiao

chonicle wrote:

Loctav wrote:

peppy said that hold-ends shouldn't be counted into this rule, since, like I said, they are "released and not pressed".
I can send you the log about it, but unfortunately I am not able to publish it.
Well I think that makes sense then, we can push this forward.
:o :o :o :o :o
He finally want to lift some limitation :D :D :D :D :D

"No 7key rule" has many limitation level when explained in different words.
Actually it's me who, when discussing the 7key issue, firstly pointed this out.

Since this is possible to play in some cases (and you know I'm a firm protester on 7key issue)I think to remove this is OK.
Agka
680 posts
Joined January 2009
Agka
Consider timing though.

Having this rule enabled would mean holds need to be lifted slightly before the other keys are pressed; this implies that the OD needs to be just lenient enough to allow a hold release actually be released within a frame that allows for a MAX judgement in this particular case.

In other words, this is going to demand a lower OD if it were ever approved, so that way easier maps that end up using this rule (and are in fact rankable) as a justification for themselves to complain, actually have this in mind, instead of pointing and crying that this rule allows them.

Other than that, I'm not sure to support it, but hey, what the hell, more options is happier mappers and players.
xxbidiao
450 posts
Joined November 2008
xxbidiao

Agka wrote:

Consider timing though.

Having this rule enabled would mean holds need to be lifted slightly before the other keys are pressed; this implies that the OD needs to be just lenient enough to allow a hold release actually be released within a frame that allows for a MAX judgement in this particular case.

In other words, this is going to demand a lower OD if it were ever approved, so that way easier maps that end up using this rule (and are in fact rankable) as a justification for themselves to complain, actually have this in mind, instead of pointing and crying that this rule allows them.

Other than that, I'm not sure to support it, but hey, what the hell, more options is happier mappers and players.
No OD0 has the same MAX range as OD10. (Only with difference on 300)
That's why I say in some cases.
You can press the hold start in the exact timing, release the slider a little earlier (still make average error in MAX range causing a MAX judgment) and then hit the note/slider start
Agka
680 posts
Joined January 2009
Agka
300 is still an important margin though. Makes or breaks an SS.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Generally, there seems to be no one having a valid reason to not allow this mapping technique in general. Therefore I am bubbling this.
Please throw your objection on the rule (if existing) till Saturday.
If no objections rise up, I'll finalize this.
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
Amended.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
That sounds pretty logical to me, good that it's changed. :)
HanzeR
921 posts
Joined May 2012
HanzeR
yes yes yes yes yes thank you yes
-kevincela-
Elite Mapper
2,796 posts
Joined February 2010
-kevincela-

HanzeR wrote:

yes yes yes yes yes thank you yes
Roxas
osu! Alumni
1,354 posts
Joined August 2011
Roxas
I support this, but Agka is right.
Maiz94
1,376 posts
Joined June 2010
Maiz94
Finally <3
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