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Make ninja spinners more lenient on higher OD

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19
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +2
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley
This request probably might get denied, but I'll give this a shot anyway.

I know that OD makes spinner harsher (requires more spins to complete), but this behavior is a bit awkward for ninja spinners on some maps. I'm suggesting that the judgement should be lenient when the spinner length is very short. (After all, ninja spinners only exist on old maps, so I believe this shouldn't affect much anyway)

The following maps are what I found to have unique case:
  1. You Are An Idiot! [Insane] - This map is actually SS-able when the OD is 6 or lower. If the OD is 6 or lower, you can get 300 at best (and funnily, gets 50 without spinning); but if it's 7 or higher, you can only get 100 at best (and misses without spinning).
  2. Bowling For Soup - 1985 [Hito's Insane] - Same as above, but with OD range of 5 or lower versus 6 or higher instead.
When I said "unique case", I'm not referring to maps like Trans-Siberian Orchestra - Wizards In Winter [Impossible] where you'll always get 50 disregarding any OD settings.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama
lol I can think of 2 not-so-ninja examples from James training:
  1. BeforU - Love Shine [Hard]
  2. BeForU - Red Rocket Rising
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
Ninja spinners. \o/
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
i think knee socks had some too.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
This would mean that the OD needs to be reworked. I mean specific Difficult settings doesn't exist I guess (and honestly I don'f find it even worthful). It's unfortually a big issue which hasn't be disallowed in the past. (Sorry but who in the world find them "funny" to play? Not the concept or the Idea if it fits with the Song, just if they plays fine)
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley

Oinari-sama wrote:

lol I can think of 2 not-so-ninja examples from James training:
  1. BeforU - Love Shine [Hard]
  2. BeForU - Red Rocket Rising
Those maps are still SS-able.

You can see how Autoplay performs on the map, and also use HR and EZ mods or edit the OD of the maps I mentioned to see how it ends (and please never use DT or HT mod along, since Autoplay actually spins at 715 SPM and 380 SPM with respective mod. I can even beat Auto's spin on HT. :P)

Stefan wrote:

This would mean that the OD needs to be reworked. I mean specific Difficult settings doesn't exist I guess (and honestly I don'f find it even worthful). It's unfortually a big issue which hasn't be disallowed in the past. (Sorry but who in the world find them "funny" to play? Not the concept or the Idea if it fits with the Song, just if they plays fine)
I only requested to put some sort of minimum limit of required spin amount for a really short spinners. I don't want to have the whole OD reworked, just the spinners.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest

Stefan wrote:

I mean specific Difficult settings doesn't exist I guess (and honestly I don'f find it even worthful). It's unfortually a big issue which hasn't be disallowed in the past. (Sorry but who in the world find them "funny" to play? Not the concept or the Idea if it fits with the Song, just if they plays fine)
I think got the general idea, but could you please rephrase your sentences? I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here..
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
Do you really think that the game's mechanics will be reworked in the favour of something which shouldn't exist in maps?
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
@theo

1st Sentence: I mean that the Difficulty Settings (OD, HP, CS) is working at every map for the same (Except AR which depends on the BPM of the Song for a bit) and that the formula for these things cannot be edited for special cases.

2nd Sentence: At the past Ninja Spinner was allowed and we made them unrankable for the today standards (also for very obvious reasons)

3rd Sentence: Should be obvious enough what I wrote.

4th Sentence: Ninja Spinners would partly work like 1/2 Sliders if they are good-used but BECAUSE they cause always 100s (or Miss) they aren't allowed.

@Winshley: Maybe I missunderstood you (and I am sure that I did) but: The higher the OD you need more Spins to pass it and/or to get 300/100. As I said, the Difficulty Settings are working at every Map on the same calculations and you actually need to decrease the OD that the Spinner are not working as Ninja Spinners but as normal Spinners (even if they are quite short).

I apologize for my misleading (?) english. g.g
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
IMO, if you spin 450 SPM for the entire duration of a spinner, it should automatically 300. peppy isn't against changing broken things that result in lower possible score, as evidenced by the CtB hyperdash fixes.
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley

Stefan wrote:

Maybe I missunderstood you (and I am sure that I did) but: The higher the OD you need more Spins to pass it and/or to get 300/100. As I said, the Difficulty Settings are working at every Map on the same calculations and you actually need to decrease the OD that the Spinner are not working as Ninja Spinners but as normal Spinners (even if they are quite short).
I wanted to suggest to put the minimum cap of how many spins are required, so that you can still get 300 if you spin fast. I'm not trying to suggest to change the whole OD mechanics. :P

MillhioreF wrote:

IMO, if you spin 450 SPM for the entire duration of a spinner, it should automatically 300.
^ This is what I wanted.

As shown on the 2 non-SS-able maps I provided, it's actually SS-able when the OD is lowered. That's because the game somehow requires you to do additional 1 spin under original OD settings, which results in getting 100 at most. I want this behavior to be changed so that you can still get 300 under original OD settings, like what happened when you adjust to lower OD settings. This can be done by adjusting the additional 1 spin not applicable on such spinners (such as putting the minimum spin limit of 2 instead of 3 depending on the length of the ninja spinners).
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley
Bump for some feedbacks.
Abel
299 posts
Joined October 2012
Abel
Winshley you only want to take my #1 in Renard - Da Nu Nuttah ;A;
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley

Abel wrote:

Winshley you only want to take my #1 in Renard - Da Nu Nuttah ;A;
You're mistaken! D:

Like I said, this request is only for ninja spinners. Da Nu Nuttah is not that short. I only am referring to maps with spinners where Auto couldn't even score a single spin bonus (without DT and HT).
Kodora
Kodora
umm sorry

but all those maps was ranked before autoplay was even implimented

so i guess we cant judge them using any today's standarts

About the whole request: what if just impliment something like seperating OD by different settings for new editor (accuraccy settings, spin spinners settings etc). This will be very common & nice for today's standarts maps because some mappers love to set in map short spinners where auto can take only 1000.

by the way i love ninja spinners.
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley

Kodora wrote:

umm sorry

but all those maps was ranked before autoplay was even implimented

so i guess we cant judge them using any today's standarts
Some maps were even made before CatchTheBeat mode was implemented, and there was an issue with uncatchable fruits because they went off the edge of playable area. Guess what? peppy fixed that by forcing the fruits to fall under catchable area. You can see more SS records on Tatakau Monotachi.

So why not this request as well? ;)


Kodora wrote:

About the whole request: what if just impliment something like seperating OD by different settings for new editor (accuraccy settings, spin spinners settings etc). This will be very common & nice for today's standarts maps because some mappers love to set in map short spinners where auto can take only 1000.
That'll be a duplicate to this request.
Kodora
Kodora

Winshley wrote:

Some maps were even made before CatchTheBeat mode was implemented, and there was an issue with uncatchable fruits because they went off the edge of playable area. Guess what? peppy fixed that by forcing the fruits to fall under catchable area. You can see more SS records on Tatakau Monotachi.
one last important thing
what will be with scores what already was taken on this maps for all this years with current settings? they will be removed?
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley

Kodora wrote:

what will be with scores what already was taken on this maps for all this years with current settings? they will be removed?
They won't be removed, since it broke their Accuracy which results in lower score. Once it's taken effect, they can fix it with better Accuracy and better Score anyway. :P

Additionally, this change only affects specific scenario (spinner length being too short). Other scenarios (spinners which have enough length for Auto to score at least 300 without bonus) will not be affected.
Kodora
Kodora
Sounds reasonable, would be nice to impliment this :p
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