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Thanks for your comments and showing me your reasoning.Sir Minelli wrote:
I find no mayor problem with the judging. Per month a modder (if active enough) can reach 20 mod posts.blissfulyoshi wrote:
Sir Minelli's proposed system is pretty effective for me.
There are just a few things that caught my attention.
1. How are we going to judge to top 50 modders
50 people is quite a few people to evaluate, especially if we have to look at a large number of their mod post. Not all mod post people do display their full skill. Sometimes mods are asked just to check timings or evaluate skins.
If a Judge is checking his mod posts, it wont take long to give a grade. If the judge is checking a mod, and the mod was only about fixing timing, well in that case the judge will move to another of his mods, and check it.
A judge will not only see one of his mods. We need to check more mod posts of a particular modder, so that we have a bigger idea of his modding.
Again, we will judge based on the criteria I mentioned. After listening to your reasoning on irc, I have no more complaints about how the posts will be judged.No, we will check the mayority of his mods. All if needed. ^blissfulyoshi wrote:
I propose that we have each one of the top 50 modders that month to provide a link to their best modding post(s) (not sure if it is better to have 1 post or a few) that month for evaluation.---blissfulyoshi wrote:
2. Most of the BATs, GMTs, and well-known modders on the team will probably be on the 50 list (only a problem if your team of judges is small)
I don't want to take away the privilege from being The Modder Of The Month to a judge. So, if a Judge gets to be at the top 50 Monthly Kudosu list, It will get graded by a secondary Judge that most likely doesn't mod. This can be a GMT.In a way, I like this. But the fact of showing everyone else the flaws of a modder, (even if its done so that the others learn as well), might downgrade / demoralize the modder.blissfulyoshi wrote:
Besides those problems, it might be nice to add a forum to talk about these mod posts, since the judges might want to discuss them and these mod posts are a great example for new (and veteran) modders to follow.
I'm thinking that after a judge grades the modder, he can pm him telling him his pros / cons and the reason of his grade.
Keep it private.
If we want everyone else to know how to improve their modding skills, I suggest the creation of a new thread from one of the BAT members, explaining how to mod correctly, what to avoid, etc.
From here, the modders will have a better idea of what to do and what not to do. I guess you are right that demoralizing posts should be avoided. Private posts will work well for me, and if people read the top modder of the month's mod, people will learn to mod better. Maybe it will be okay to say what were the strengths of the top modder so people can now what to look for in his mod post and not have the modder be discouraged.
How are you going to judge?This is very difficult. You may think this is easy but it's actually going to be very hard to "judge." People look at modding very differently. Just look at all the mapping styles out there. One person might think "this is the best mod post ever" while another might completely disagree. You're going to have to work out how people judge right off the bat or else you will have some serious arguments later on.
I propose that we have each one of the top 50 modders that month to provide a link to their best modding post(s) (not sure if it is better to have 1 post or a few) that month for evaluation.I agree with Minelli. Check all of his/her modding posts.
Most of the BATs, GMTs, and well-known modders on the team will probably be on the 50 list (only a problem if your team of judges is small)Your BATs and GMTs won't be a problem. Look at your BAT rankings now, they won't be taking many spots, there is no issue. Why would you want someone to be graded by another individual who doesn't really mod? That's like asking a psychiatrist to operate on your kidney. I'll pass. I don't think BATs/GMTs/Judges/Whatever being on your Top 50 Modders of the Month list will be an issue anyway seeing there won't be many of them at all. And if it's motivating them to mod more, then why not? Besides if they're already modding then why shouldn't they be on this list?
I don't want to take away the privilege from being The Modder Of The Month to a judge. So, if a Judge gets to be at the top 50 Monthly Kudosu list, It will get graded by a secondary Judge that most likely doesn't mod. This can be a GMT.
Besides those problems, it might be nice to add a forum to talk about these mod posts, since the judges might want to discuss them and these mod posts are a great example for new (and veteran) modders to follow.Well, there's #mod but that's mostly just a place to set an idle message on to spam your map, but whatever it's #mod it works. Another forum is fine though there's nothing wrong that I could see with this point.
agreedWojjan wrote:
So we'll have people modding modding?
That is so weird.
And seems to me like this time woud be better spent on actual modding of maps...Wojjan wrote:
So we'll have people modding modding?
That is so weird.
Yes... and there is A LOT more modding posts than maps.Gemi wrote:
And seems to me like this time woud be better spent on actual modding of maps...Wojjan wrote:
So we'll have people modding modding?
That is so weird.
i'm not against this thing of modder of the month, i just think the method you planted isn't solid.... just think about the problem right now with the beatmaps that don't get mod.... modders (no BAT) mods just for kudosu, i'm mean with this, modding a beatmap isn't fun, i think modding moderations is masochistic xDSir Minelli wrote:
This is an extra feature to incentive modders to mod more / become better modders.
If you have any strong arguement against this feature, please let me know.
Otherwise, lets continue with it.
Lizbeth wrote:
Or another idea will be, an option, also enable after giving kudos, to Rate each moderations ( maybe 1-5 ). The user with higher rate will earn the badge.
Also the rate should be secret to prevent any troubles between users.
these are better ways, imoEkaru wrote:
a kudosu ranking of the month would be enough and would be similar to this. Heck, add a "top kudosu earner of the week/month" and multiple times, and you have a much better incentive than this.
No.Lissette wrote:
Lizbeth wrote:
Or another idea will be, an option, also enable after giving kudos, to Rate each moderations ( maybe 1-5 ). The user with higher rate will earn the badge.
Also the rate should be secret to prevent any troubles between users.these are better ways, imoEkaru wrote:
a kudosu ranking of the month would be enough and would be similar to this. Heck, add a "top kudosu earner of the week/month" and multiple times, and you have a much better incentive than this.
Quoted for truth.Gemi wrote:
And seems to me like this time woud be better spent on actual modding of maps...
I think this would cause a decrease in modding as people spend their time going through mod posts and trying to decide who was the best modder instead of actually modding songs.Shinde wrote:
I agree it would probably cause a small, perhaps bigger than that, increase in modding
Gemi wrote:
I think this would cause a decrease in modding as people spend their time going through mod posts and trying to decide who was the best modder instead of actually modding songs.Shinde wrote:
I agree it would probably cause a small, perhaps bigger than that, increase in modding
Modding modders seems like a waste of time to be honest, with less time devoted to modding maps and more time devoted to judging who is the best modder. [As has been stated above]As has been previously stated, only a select few judges will be doing the 'mod modding', and only during a specific time of the month. This would have such a small impact on the overall mapping/modding community that I'm quite positive it'd fail to be noticed.
No judge can never be totally impartial, and again its wasting time that could be spent modding.A valid point, but that's what a number of Judges is for. This helps to balance things out to keep things fair for everyone
I think the 'Top Modders' should be above things like modding for an awardThe 'Top Modders' perspective on modding will change just because of this award? I don't think so. I think they'll continue to mod with contribution to the osu community as higher motivation than this award. But certain things motivate certain people. The current 'Top Modders' are people who freely contribute to the community for little more than the thanks they recieve from the mapper. If this award will motivate people who aren't motivated by community involvement, as it will, then it is well worth having.
The people who you'll likely get to this job are those who would otherwise be modding. Also, if you want a fair system you need to go through a LOT(ie. all of them for those with high amounts of mod posts) of mod posts and check how good tSir Minelli wrote:
No offense, but only a few judges will be doing this... ONCE per month and will not be much of a time consuming work at all.
Lol?Sir Minelli wrote:
But no one has actually listed the negative aspects. Do I smell jealousy?
Do you realize how many posts you'll have to read through? 50 users and a few dozen posts from each, that makes hundreds of posts to rad. That's not a quick task.Sir Minelli wrote:
Number of Kudosu is not always the best indicator for knowing whos the best modder. In most cases it is NOT.
That is why monthly the top 50 kudosu earners will be listed in a chart.
From here, judges will read their posts and will know who modded the best.
Don't agree with this. Modding isn't just about finding mistakes, it's about making maps better. If the mapper took the suggestion, then the modder has helped improve the map, and deserves a kudosu.Sir Minelli wrote:
4 .- Try to avoid only "suggestion mod posts" Try to find actual mistakes and post them.
If you only suggest something and get a kudosu, it might get denied.
As I said... try to avoid only suggestion posts.0_o wrote:
Don't agree with this. Modding isn't just about finding mistakes, it's about making maps better. If the mapper took the suggestion, then the modder has helped improve the map, and deserves a kudosu.Sir Minelli wrote:
4 .- Try to avoid only "suggestion mod posts" Try to find actual mistakes and post them.
If you only suggest something and get a kudosu, it might get denied.
Thank you GOD.0_o wrote:
gotcha
4 .- Try to avoid only "suggestion mod posts" Try to find actual mistakes and post them.What if the maps modded have very little or no mistakes in them? If you modded 10 maps in a row with no mistakes and posted suggestions would that count as abuse? I think this needs to be specified a little more clearly because "abuse" and "suggestion" are subjective to both the modder and the person who judges the posts.
If you only suggest something and get a kudosu, it might get denied.
It is correct to give suggestions once in a while, but do not abuse these type of posts for your own benefit.
6 .- Making a difficulty for a particular beatmap is not a reason for obtaining kudosu anymore. It will get denied.Should this be denied outright? Surely receiving one kudosu for helping create a difficulty isn't such a bad thing, and if there is 1 difficulty by the mapper and 1 guest difficulty surely it is helping because otherwise the map couldn't be ranked? Of course if this was abused it would be a bad thing, but the rules could be specified.
I hope you got me this time.Shulin wrote:
4 .- Try to avoid only "suggestion mod posts" Try to find actual mistakes and post them.
If you only suggest something and get a kudosu, it might get denied.
It is correct to give suggestions once in a while, but do not abuse these type of posts for your own benefit.Shulin, it is very unlikely that you mod 10 maps in a row and give only suggestions without finding any possible mistakes.Shulin wrote:
What if the maps modded have very little or no mistakes in them? If you modded 10 maps in a row with no mistakes and posted suggestions would that count as abuse? I think this needs to be specified a little more clearly because "abuse" and "suggestion" are subjective to both the modder and the person who judges the posts.
By Abusing this system, I refer to modding only maps that are bubbled / about to get ranked, posting a single suggestion while skipping all the hard work, and recieving kudosu for it. Try to aim your moddings to maps that are in the need of a solid mod in order to avoid future missunderstandings.
It is easy to notice if you slacked or not.
If you modded the map, gave only one suggestion... the comes another modder and posts like 15 mistakes he found, then you are doing it wrong.6 .- Making a difficulty for a particular beatmap is not a reason for obtaining kudosu anymore. It will get denied.It is already being denied to everyone else.Shulin wrote:
Should this be denied outright? Surely receiving one kudosu for helping create a difficulty isn't such a bad thing, and if there is 1 difficulty by the mapper and 1 guest difficulty surely it is helping because otherwise the map couldn't be ranked? Of course if this was abused it would be a bad thing, but the rules could be specified.
You will already have your difficulty ranked for everyone else to play. That should be enough.
I have recieved already like 5+ difficulties for some of my maps and I never gave kudosu because the first time I did, a BAT denied it.Shulin wrote:
Other than that I think this system will have a positive affect.