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How do you read HD+HR? (MMzz has ocd)

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Total Posts
137
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
thelewa
So, up to this point I've memorized every single HD+HR score that I've done, but today I thought that this was a rather inefficient method. Retrying every map that I play about 50 times before I have the stacks and hidden circles memorized sucks balls.

The purpose of this thread is for people to tell me how they, as players, read HD+HR (especially stacks and circles under sliders) and not so much about giving me advice since I doubt anyone in here could actually give me useful advice. But I could probably learn from how other people play.

inb4 "practice"
telling someone to practice but not telling them how, is quite useless
Last edited by thelewa , edited 1 time in total.
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West
Play without Hidden.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama
I can't play HD+HR on the sort of crazy maps you guys play (yet), but whenever I have HD on I pay more attention to appearing circles rather than the circle that's due immediately. This works well when the map "makes sense" to me, but not so well if the circle timing do not match any of the tempo/lyrics/drums/instruments, since my eyes are not on the circle that's due and I'm solely relying on the rhythm.

I'm not good at memorising the map, so if I can't find the next circle after the slider I sometimes blind click on the slider endpoint by guessing with the rhythm. Yeah bad habit I know...
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
Reaction time.

no seriously. Honestly, I don't even play nomod sometimes. I just put on hardrock, sightread it a few times and I get it down. Actually, I've gotten some easy hard rock scores on the first try by just sightreading random stuff like this.

As for stacks, I've realized that I'm actually decent at reading hidden, and much of the time I don't even need the approach circle to read stacks and back and forth notes. Like, it's become intuition sometimes as to where an "unseeable" note is. Also, I can read the automatic osu! stacking pretty well too.

So for HardRock, basically it's just reaction time, as it is the same with AR 10.3 for me as well if I ever do play those types of maps. For stacks, I have no real way of doing this, but being able to read the automatic osu! stacking and being able to read weird back and forth patterns without the approach circles might help. Only I see of doing this practicing hd+hr or just hd on maps that have these weird patterns, which I don't have any in mind right now.

Edit: if I recall correctly this map might have some hard stacks to read on hidden (but they aren't like direct stacks, I mean like stacks that are under sliders and such). http://osu.ppy.sh/s/52547# but when I say I'm decent at reading hidden, I mean like I can sight read this on hidden on the first try and get like 95% accuracy still.

though I'm not at home right now so I can't really actually play the map and test whether this was the right map i was thinking about.
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
Use a more transparent hitcircle graphic, and focus on the numbers how/when they disappear for the stacks. Circles under sliders are more difficult to detect without memorization, but they're still visible so I'm assuming that by paying attention and getting used to watching for them, you'll be able to hit them instinctively.
HardRock is just reaction time. Unless you build up superfast reflexes, the only way to play with HR is memorization.
Last edited by TakuMii , edited 1 time in total.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
you can tell stacks by stack leniency
Michi
134 posts
Joined June 2011
Michi
fuck you lewa
Jenny
2,200 posts
Joined November 2010
Jenny
either more transparent circles with maybe some eyecatching thing in their center (whatever, like you get three circles and each of them has a star on it, so you recognize the number of clicks by the number of stars that shine through) or thicker ones and go with leniency/stacking offset - depends on skin and mood to me
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
It's really all about reaction to me. (then again I suck)

With maps nowadays that are focused on overdone jumps and annoying overlaps, you have to memorize them anyway.
BeatofIke
4,166 posts
Joined September 2011
BeatofIke

Shiro wrote:

It's really all about reaction to me. (then again I suck)

With maps nowadays that are focused on overdone jumps and annoying overlaps, you have to memorize them anyway.
Pretty much this more or less. Also more AR9 on slow BPM (120-180) insane maps (which I do not understand)!
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

buny wrote:

you can tell stacks by stack leniency
not all maps have this, and generally the problem is with those that don't
go play basara with HD and see how that goes for you.

Hidden is a stack memorization mode. It's impossible to sightread certain types of stacking on it perfectly and it will always boil down to memorization for players who are aiming for SS and are not satisfied with hitting circles at the last moment by reaction and hoping you're lucky. Completely invisible skins can make it easier to read but still not fix the issue.

You will never be able to first-play-for-SS with HD on maps with under-slider or leniency-less stacking. It's impossible.

If you want sightreadable HD stacks, help push darkmiz's suggestion forward t/116420.
and fight against the ranking of unreadable leniencyless patterns such as those used in the recent Kakuzetsu Skystar map.

And why is the topic title HD+HR. HD is easier the higher the AR is, since there's less stacking. Try playing EZ+HD now that's a real challenge.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
I'd like to know what Shilkey has to say about this. What is his words of wisdom.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
Last thing I saw Shilkey say on the matter, in a multiplayer room, is:

"hate hidden"
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan

theowest wrote:

I'd like to know what Shilkey has to say about this. What is his words of wisdom.
AR10 feels slow for him, and so does for me... And I'm not even light years close to Shilkey's level

I guess you need to play approach rates HIGHER than 10 to be able to play ar10 without any reading problem. Try playing ar9+dt on insanes or ar7/8+dt+hr on hard difficulties unless you're cookiezi or shilkey
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
thelewa
but shilkey was banned for hacking on that other account
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan

thelewa wrote:

but shilkey was banned for hacking on that other account
He wasn't banned for hacking, his other account's scores are still there. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/76414&m=0 He was banned for bug abusing
Miracle Lotus
Miracle Lotus
ragelewa, please.
You're the hdhr master, you'd know best.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Aqo wrote:

buny wrote:

you can tell stacks by stack leniency
not all maps have this, and generally the problem is with those that don't
go play basara with HD and see how that goes for you.

Hidden is a stack memorization mode. It's impossible to sightread certain types of stacking on it perfectly and it will always boil down to memorization for players who are aiming for SS and are not satisfied with hitting circles at the last moment by reaction and hoping you're lucky. Completely invisible skins can make it easier to read but still not fix the issue.

You will never be able to first-play-for-SS with HD on maps with under-slider or leniency-less stacking. It's impossible.

If you want sightreadable HD stacks, help push darkmiz's suggestion forward http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/116420.
and fight against the ranking of unreadable leniencyless patterns such as those used in the recent Kakuzetsu Skystar map.

And why is the topic title HD+HR. HD is easier the higher the AR is, since there's less stacking. Try playing EZ+HD now that's a real challenge.
with hd it should be played by flow, the patterns in basara are predictable if you have flow.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
predict is not read
basara has no flow
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
having a good flow makes it easier for the map to be readable since you'll have a good indication of where the next beat is.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
basara has amazing flow.

at least if you define flow as "the map represents the character of the song perfectly". plus basara with hidden is relatively easy as many patterns have repetition, and those who don't have repetition are easy to read anyway.

and it is possible to first try SS maps with hidden notes with hidden mod if the map has distinct rhythms, so you just know that there has to be a note.
Last edited by Tanzklaue , edited 1 time in total.
Mismagius
9,239 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
basara has shit flow and it's a terrible map

my opinion > your opinion

also, need help on playing HD+HR ): I get like 95-96% with HR on maps, but then I try HD+HR and often miss many times or get a 89% FC or so
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
Why on earth did you of all people make this thread, lewa? :P
You can talk to any other hdhr pro in the game with your reputation. Forums are useful if you can't do exactly this.


Still it's a nice topic to discuss, though I can't add more than OP because I'm prone to failing stacks myself until I memorize them properly.
Tshemmp
1,405 posts
Joined June 2011
Tshemmp

Tanzklaue wrote:

basara has amazing flow.

at least if you define flow as "the map represents the character of the song perfectly".
This is not flow for me. A map has flow when the objects are placed on spots where your hand would naturally move next ("on its own").

You are talking about fittingness.
Soarezi
Soarezi
swing your right arm and smash your face on your keyboard and hope for the best
Darksonic
Global Moderator
2,794 posts
Joined November 2010
Darksonic
Sometimes I just play the map without mods to memorize stacks, streams, rhythm, etc. Then add HD+HR (Not HR only because it's harder to read for me), and yeah, reaction.
Purple
467 posts
Joined May 2011
Purple
also, need help on playing HD+HR ): I get like 95-96% with HR on maps, but then I try HD+HR and often miss many times or get a 89% FC or so
I suffer from this issue as well, i just cant acc hd+hr and sometimes cant even do jumps in it (snap jumps)

Also AR10 + DT doesnt make HD reading any better. If anything it makes it worse since it gives you a much tinier amount of time to react to stacks.
ethox
osu! Alumni
357 posts
Joined August 2010
ethox
>reading Hidden
stopped reading there

Play it without the Hidden mod and add it afterwards you can feel the tempo of the map. This is hard though since, as already stated, maps today are made difficult by fitting jumps in arguable places and placing notes under sliders. The ranking criteria makes all notes readable with a reaction time fast enough. The hardest kind of patterns to read in my experience are like the one in BARUSA of MIKOSU (you all know which one I'm talking about).

But then again what do I know, I can't play effectively beyond 180 BPM and I mostly play oldies. But if you keep having accuracy problems HR, click to the song and move to the map, most of you use two hands while playing this game so it is not too hard.
she_old
she_old

thelewa wrote:

but shilkey was banned for hacking on that other account
p/1833948
Last edited by theowest , edited 4 times in total.
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