oh yeah, that's because split/merge were broken (not sure if they still are)

Just checked. Still are. When's it fixed?

Hey Woj-podge, do you have access to the Abandoned Wasteland, or are threads lost to you when you move them there

awp wrote:

Hey Woj-podge, do you have access to the Abandoned Wasteland, or are threads lost to you when you move them there

I can read it. I do that sometimes when I want to feel good about my life.

oh btw can I get sticky rights in OT please? I kind of want the wojjlog to be up there.

Also also I think it's high fucking time we unsticky Link's quest to yadda yadda.

whatever it was, its purpose was served. Made it so

Okay sorry but this is getting fucking ri****ulous can you please let me do my job. I am pretty sure I have this subforum under control, saying the word dick in off-topic is not against its rules.

It wasn't because of the word "dick"

I fuckin' hope not. Dicks is the new quantity by which everything is measured,

eg "It was cold as dicks yesterday, but it wasn't too bad today."

Guess cococococo's starting up again on his new account huh?

sucks, but yeah. I've given him plenty of warning about off-topic so far, so if you see him act up anywhere again there's really no need to be mild.

Well if he does it again might as well block him out of OT on top of the silence or just perma ban if necessary

Since the user "she" visits OT as well be wary, i've just had to cleanup over 100 posts of spam and necro on the Intrdocutions board from them (with an added silence and post block overall)

Sakura wrote:

Since the user "she" visits OT as well be wary, i've just had to cleanup over 100 posts of spam and necro on the Intrdocutions board from them (with an added silence and post block overall)

i'll handle this if it gets out of hand on the kill side

why not just disable the user's posting rights if they're that bad?

they've only done it in the introduction boards as far as i can tell, their posts here seem normal, the silence will prevent them from posting anywhere anyways, but when it's over they'll be able to post in here, just not in the introductions board.

Sakura wrote:

they've only done it in the introduction boards as far as i can tell,

it matters if they do it, not where they do it !

Hey Wojjan, have you and awpy-kins talked things through for the first?

I have read the PM but had flu for this entire week so it didn't really sink in enough for me to make a constructive reply. I've started trying to make some sense of the situation.

I'll be here when you're good and ready

There's still time anyway, so no rush.

okay, so, I have a LOT of questions about how good this is about to go, but here goes nothing

1. First off, what's going to distinguish the new OT from the old OT? The people who frequent it, at the start, are going to be the same, and so will the mentality. I understand, in spirit, what a spring cleaning like this is supposed to mean, but what will it accomplish?
   Which actual, new rules will you put in place to change the circlejerk mindset?

1. This begs the question: who's going to enforce these rules? Will I or dkun get some sort of forum-silencing, or do we just continue serving as OT janitors and write down the repeat offenders for the modmins to check out?

1. Next, what's going to distinguish the new OT from GD? In Off-Topic being a typical user (which I mean with no bad intent, but I also do detest the "moe cookiezi >w<" "arrow to the knee XD" mentality) will get you a LOT of flak. Largely for lack of critical thinking, or at least lack of wanting to use your critical thinking on a forum. It might not look the part, but being a mature, accostable person who can form their own opinion is one of the biggest tools to garner respect in OT. I fear that breaking the forum open to a wider audience is going to invite a lot of people who mistake it for a spam forum, which will cause another whiplash from the regulars, and so on and so forth.
   What's the goal in dispelling the circlejerk? Who do you want to help in doing so?

1. Off-Topic now, is not a forum for everyone. It's this sort of smarmy column at the back of the osu! newspaper. A salt factory where you can take any shit about osu! - and about OT itself - with a grain of salt, and take a step back from all the drama for a moment. I get the point of breaking Off-Topic open for more people, but what's the current OT core going to do if you change the forum's intent, rules, AND audience?
   Are you going to change OT's purpose anything? This is the most important question, we have to be on the same page here.

While i think about your ideas, i also wanted to give one of mine

Give the new (or the old if it doesnt get rehashed or whatever word was it) post count increase, and limit the non-increasable post count stuff to Forum Games, considering there are people that stay away from the whole forums just because they don't want their post count to increase, and with the current state of OT i don't see any real reason for post count not to increase.

Oh and a note about merging posts, use "Merge threads" not "Merge posts" that one works for some reason
When I try to access anything from the MCP it tells me that's "not allowed as quickmod"
Ok that is weird, Merge threads works for me (merge posts doesnt), basically just click Merge threads from the dropdown box and it SHOULD give you a list of threads where you can "select for merge" are you seeing this?

Also why not give wojjan access to our BAT cave *runs*

--Now for answers!-- (I will answer with what i know tho, since im only half-aware of how this is going to work, dkun and/or awp would be better at explainint this)

Wojjan wrote:

Which actual, new rules will you put in place to change the circlejerk mindset?

iirc these was pending discussion until you accepted but might as well discuss these now.

Wojjan wrote:

This begs the question: who's going to enforce these rules? Will I or dkun get some sort of forum-silencing, or do we just continue serving as OT janitors and write down the repeat offenders for the modmins to check out?

dkun already can silence (silence extends to the forums) since he's a chat-op while so can do any BAT/Admin, you can just report it to us via a !report -post link- reason or a PM and keep doing your job as usual, this is assuming silencing would be the form of application of said punishment, ultimately awp or me can prevent them from posting in OT or modqueuing for repeat offenders.

Wojjan wrote:

I've considered for a long while to implement a new rule in OT that quoting posts by other people, without adding anything of merit outside the quote, will just get your post deleted when I catch it. I never got to actually enforcing it, but it could be a step away from the Offtopic-collective thought.

I always thought of quoting a whole post the same as saying "I agree with this" i never saw a problem with that IMO.

Wojjan wrote:

What's the goal in dispelling the circlejerk? Who do you want to help in doing so?

I always thought the point of this was helping newcomers who usually get shot down immediately by the circlejerk without any hope,

Wojjan wrote:

Are you going to change OT's purpose anything?

I don't think it's purpose will change at all, just the way it's portrayed to the public.

Wojjan wrote:

Perhaps an introductory post by the mods, explaining how OT works in an easy-to-understand manner would be in place? Off-Topic gets criticised often for being so purposeless, actually slapping the purpose on there, in big letters, will shut those people up too.

This is quite a nice idea.

Wojjan wrote:

I want to change forum games. Forum Games has some good threads which are, you know, actual games, but a LOT of bad threads. I propose adding THESE RULES to what constitutes a game.

I havent moderated forum games so i don't really know how stuff works there, but if there are really bad threads in there then they should be locked, simple.

Wojjan wrote:

-About communicating this to OT-

Can't really comment on this, i like transparency, but there is a reason it's being done on the April 1st. awp or dkun may be able to inform you better than me.

the goal of the new off topic is just to get rid of the elitism and accepted shitposting that's so pervasive there right now. Your suggestion to delete unsubstantial posts on sight (quoting without adding anything significant) is encouraged.

It'll still be an open-ended board where you can take the piss out of osu!, or make threads that rely on others to goof around in for content etc. It's General Discussion with much more relaxed rules.

Not sure right now how we're going to enforce the "Don't be a dick" policy in a way that won't piss off people or seem one sided. I'd like to propose that it's okay to criticize behaviours and ideas, but not people.

OK: Your idea is fucking stupid
NO: You're fucking stupid

So basically we're going to elevate the /b/ that is OT to the /r9k/ that is OTHD

awp wrote:

NO: You're fucking stupid

You're fucking stupid is what built this country though. I mean, even I chew people out when I moderate them sometimes! There's a difference between being a dick and being mean, slim as it is.

Wojjan wrote:

So basically we're going to elevate the /b/ that is OT to the /r9k/ that is OTHD

I do not understand your foreign language

why do "Count until x" threads exist? Isn't it against the forum rules to flood/spam?

I'm killing them all off once the OT remake hits.

btw are we making post count increase on the remake (but ofc not in forum games)?

it might be easier to justify "no shitposting" if we do make that change

Are we going to have some kind of discussion thread about this, so we can discuss what needs to be changed?

Yes, this one, since wojjan can't access ML

For proper discussion purposes, couldn't we just unapprove a new thread?

where's the charm in that?

They wrote:

Welcome to Off-Topic

• A Word of Warning Beforehand

Off-Topic is a part of the forum that is not quite the same as other subforums you'll find on the osu! board. It is a place where everything you read has to be taken with a pinch of salt: It's a forum that houses jokes about osu!, and its community, but also about Off-Topic itself, and even about parts of the internet entirely outside the game, some of which you might not even be familiar with! This implies two things:

◘ Because of a certain pervasive sarcasm around this subforum and its users, it's very important to have a good grasp on the English language. If not, you will probably misinterpret something or other. But if you don't, look Eʟsᴇᴡʜᴇʀᴇ and you might find that the subforum of your own language has an Off-Topic thread of its own!

◘ Because of a similar pervasive joking attitude, you're expected upon entering this forum to be able to roll with the punches. You're going to be "the new kid" in the social circle for a while, and you probably won't get a joke or two at first. Be flexible. Take a joke. Learn from mistakes. Act mature. Follow these guidelines and you'll find people will accept you a lot faster!

We Like It Cozy

So ｂｅ ｆｌｅｘｉｂｌｅ!

◘ Something a lot of people forget when you arrive here, is that the subcommunity in the subforum has a history of four years behind it! There's going to be a crowd of regulars and - like it or not - they'll influence what we consider a "quality" post. So, what can you do about that? First things first, we have a Wʜᴏʟᴇ Lᴏᴛ of Oᴛʜᴇʀ Pʟᴀᴄᴇs where you can Bᴇ Yᴏᴜʀsᴇʟғ and Mᴀᴋᴇ Fʀɪᴇɴᴅs. If you don't fit in in this crowd, odds are, with all the thousands of people on osu! you'll find a place where you do. But if you really want to make it work, be mindful of your audience. Test the waters first, take your time and take it easy.

THINGS TO DO:
⚠ - Check if your topic wouldn't fit better in any other subforum linked in the above little bit.
⚠ - Find out if the regulars are people you want to associate with. They won't leave for you, you're joining them.
✓ - Join the conversation on things you like. You'll have more luck with an existing topic than a new one.
✓ - Be yourself in a way that opens you up to us. Show us how you're awesome. You're making friends here.
✗ - Be yourself in a way where you don't care about what people think about you. This is a community.

We Like It Smarmy

So ｔａｋｅ ａ ｊｏｋｅ!

◘ This subforum is built around quick wit, humor, and rough quipping. Especially that last bit is known to cause some issues. What if you post something hilarious, and somebody disagrees with you? They're even calling you names, what a dickwad! When somebody makes a joke about you, they probably don't mean it as a personal attack, even if it's worded this way. If you found somebody's post offensive, don't make a big scene in public about them being a bigger dickwad for calling you one, take it up with one of the moderators and they will get back to you shortly. An argument you avoid is one you both win.

THINGS TO DO:
✓ - Make lighthearted jokes about anything and anyone. As long as it stays superficial, almost anything is allowed.
✓ - Give people flak over the jokes they've posted or things they've said. Joke about them, like the above rule.
✗ - Go overboard with the first two rules. When somebody asks you to stop, stop. Doubly so when a moderator contacts you.
✗ - Throw around slurs and insults consistently without provocation.
✗ - Use the above to weasel-word what constitutes harassment, against a user, person or group.
✗ - Overreact or start a public fight when somebody else throws anything at you.

We Like It Tidy

So ｌｅａｒｎ ｆｒｏｍ ｍｉｓｔａｋｅｓ!

◘ We have a bit of a way of organising ourselves in Off-Topic: keep it simple and consistent. Getting acquainted with the way the forum is built and what kind of topics go where is very important, because a lot of stuff which shouldn't go here ends up here because it is the less-serious part. Especially when creating a new topic, consider the following golden rule: can this thing I'm about to post generate five pages of discussion about the thing? If it can't, we have a Tʜʀᴇᴀᴅ Aʙᴏᴜᴛ Aʟʟ Kɪɴᴅs ᴏғ Tʜɪɴɢs and a Tʜʀᴇᴀᴅ Aʙᴏᴜᴛ Pᴇʀsᴏɴᴀʟ Tʜɪɴɢs which are both quite popular, and could get you a better response than making a fresh thread just for your subject would. If you're gutsy enough, you can always try, the worst thing is you'll fail.

THINGS TO DO:
✓ - Create new threads with substantial, meaty, original content.
✓ - Post things that aren't as substantial in threads designated for it, so that it may know its moment.
✗ - Create duplicate threads about subject another thread already covers.
✗ - Post in threads that are very old without something extremely substantial and meaty to add to them.
✗ - Immediately shoot down any new thread without letting it have its run. Who knows what could happen?
✗ - Make posts that don't add anything new such as replying with just "lol" or ">w<", or quoting someone without adding to it.

We Like It Serious (sometimes)

So ａｃｔ ｍａｔｕｒｅ!
◘ While Off-Topic is a very fun forum to be a part of once you're settled in, it takes some effort to keep this entire show running smoothly. For this cause, there are two designated Off-Topic janitors: WOJJAN and DKUN. (that's me on the left!) We are responsible for the Off-Topic damage control: when somebody makes a thread here which should've gone elsewhere or already existed, we move and merge them. When a conversation gets out of hand, we lock a thread (and in worse cases move it to the Abandoned Wasteland) but while we don't often administer silences or timeouts to the ones responsible, we have friends who do. Anyone on the Admin team (which are those fine lads and lasses with the Green names) is also moderator in here, and counts as much as they do anywhere else on the forum. They still count here and they will have those powers, and are not afraid to use them. So if you fuck up along the way, and you get enough DINGS for the janitors to notice you as a DINGUS, expect some consequences.

THINGS TO DO:
✓ - Report inappropriate behavior which wronged you or annoyed you to us, through PM or otherwise.
✓ - Contact us for questions or information that's not about somebody who broke something. We can show you the way.
✓ - Call us out on mistakes you think we might have made. We're human! It happens, and we'll gladly right the wrongs.
✗ - Publicly complain about what you consider rude or wrongful intervention. It will only make things worse.
⚠ - Know that moderators are people too, with personal lives, sleep schedules, but also feelings (sort of).

I wrote a guide on OTHD for new users. Tell me what you think (tomorrow)
My eventual goal is writing a similar post about what's actually and concreetly going to change from OT Mk I to OT Mk II. Those two together will be the basic ruleset of the new OT.

I had an idea of making the old OT invisible somewhere during the merge, and come out with only a few of its absolute best threads left, all locked but visible to everyone in a separate Valhalla, subforum on the same level like Forum Games.

Well, so much for discussion; you just summed up everything I would of liked to of discussed, or much rather, it's ~perfect~.

Also I'm pretty sure that the old OT is going to be archived into Wasteland? (and we know what this means to users) Although, I do agree with taking out some of the best of the threads that are left, and separate Valhalla them.

Not to mention she can now discuss it in the lounge

I hopped into the OT archives briefly: these are all the threads I found that I considered Valhalla material. Feel free to take a look, sift through them, and once any amount of these is secured in a valhalla, drop the OT-bomb.

http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/14433
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/17780
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/17995
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/16495
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/21099
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/21154
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/32065
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/37200
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/38161
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/40144
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/43819
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/49454
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/51348
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/60204
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/61060
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/63531
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/64149
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/79053
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/79240
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/79352
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/99979

A word of warning, paragraph three:

I say drop the bit about being "the new kid". We don't want to foster circle-jerking from the getgo; the idea is to start the forum fresh. The history will be there, but let's not call attention to it as if it's a requirement or expectation.

Because of a similar pervasive joking attitude, you're expected upon entering this forum to be able to roll with the punches. You're going to be "the new kid" in the social circle for a while, and you probably won't get a joke or two at first. Be flexible. Take a joke. Learn from mistakes. Act mature. Follow these guidelines and you'll find people will accept you a lot faster!



Scratch out that sentence, and suddenly you have pretty much everything OTHD should be in a single paragraph

I dunno, I still feel like people paying heed to they who came before them is important. Mostly because I care about my flock, I'm afraid the current regulars could end up with no place to stay on the forum were OT to change too much.

how about:

Because of a similar pervasive joking attitude, you're expected upon entering this forum to be able to roll with the punches. Be flexible. Take a joke. Learn from mistakes. Act mature. Follow these guidelines and you'll find that the people who were already around will accept you a lot faster!

just so the history keeps a little bit of merit