Wishy wrote:

Stream is terrible. 720p is unwatchable since it get's lagged constatly (image freezing) and it doesn't even look like 720p. Again it's not just me since I usually watch 1080p streams without major problems (while downloading shit via torrent at high speeds, meaning 3MB/s). Then again on low quality you can barely see combo count.

Wishy wrote:

Hitsound spam is annoying, though peppy is already working on this so I guess this is ok.

Wishy wrote:

And the 15 minutes rule is, indeed, useful, but there is a priorities problem. You can show up 20 minutes late, but then again you gotta join the game 15 minutes earlier than the time you arranged. Having to wait 15 minutes before the match w/o playing can be troublesome since your hands "go cold". I'd change that time gap to 5 minutes (unless your cat is on fire or you're playing Stream Compilation you shouldn't have any problem with this) and even let the player play 2 or even 3 warm up maps just in case.

Wishy wrote:

Only good thing I can say about this is the stream is almost always online, which is good, and most matches are being played w/o much trouble, but really there is A LOT to improve, rather than the 15 minutes thing. Like really I would love to know why you need the players to be there. If you want the initial line-up you can get that information via PM. You can set up the stream while players are just screwing around, etc.

silmarilen wrote:

if the stream is low quality because of the internet connection of the streamer, get someone to stream with a better connection.

silmarilen wrote:

also the delay on commentating can be fixed by either
having all the commentators in a tournament client and watching through there

silmarilen wrote:

or having an internal stream where they can watch and commentate and then that gets restreamed to the public one.

Makar wrote:

silmarilen wrote:

or having an internal stream where they can watch and commentate and then that gets restreamed to the public one.

...Why would want to do this? xD

Kanye West wrote:

Less delay, I presume. But there would be more work involved (setting up a second stream, etc.)

Wishy wrote:

If your Internet connection is not good enough, then get someone with a better one to stream (I could give it a shot but I'm not sure if my PC is good enough, wouldn't mind giving it a try).

Wishy wrote:

I don't understand what's going on with this "commentating delay". Just stream from your PC, don't talk, or either commentate from WATCHING your own stream from another PC rather than the osu! spectator client itself. If you're still getting commentating delay then you're doing something wrong (thousands of DotA/LoL/any game players stream and don't have this issue).

Wishy wrote:

Anyways the stream is "good enough" so none of what I said above is a really big complaint. It's improved a lot compared to last year and it is running smoothly. I'm still against the 15 minutes rule but to be honest, if you changed the warm up thing to something like 3 maps instead of 1 there shouldn't be any problem. Give this some thought since there is usually, from what I've watched, 10~15 minutes of pretty much nothing after matches so there is time to add 1 or 2 more warm up maps. Plus doubt anyone will care spectating people play crazy/interesting stuff like they already do before matches. Then again please don't use the "we need time to organize" card, because it's been several times that I've seen commentators talking random stuff or "answering questions" because there is nothing to do. There is indeed enough time to let the players play, into the multiplayer room already, a 2 extra maps just for warm up purposes. This would solve KRZY's problem I think.

Mr Color wrote:

I'm not about to do anything special or study any map or any of that bullshit. This isn't professional. If it were, you wouldn't see me commentating. I'm fine with you not liking the streams, and I'm also fine with you not watching the streams either.

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Also, this "if you don't like this tournament, you can shut up and go home" attitude is really coming off as unprofessional. This isn't just you, but from a lot of the staff over the last hundred pages. A lot of the criticisms have been unfounded/hostile, to be sure, but even polite concerns have been bluntly shrugged off and even attacked/threatened by the staff. I know you guys are human, and this is probably pretty stressful, but as people who chose to assume responsibility for something this big, you have an obligation to remain professional and rational at all times. This is true about any management/leadership position in life. Even if someone treats you unreasonably, you need to deal with it without resorting to the cold shoulder/iron authority. Even if you are truly considering everyone's input and making decisions accordingly, you're not giving off that impression, and I think a lot of the frustration from the players/viewers in this thread are coming from this impression that you are blatantly/rudely ignoring them in favor of your own judgement, and your own judgement only. Again, not picking on anyone in particular, but rather directed towards the staff in general.

Still, thank you for running the tournament. The stream is also a huge plus, and even if there are issues with it, at least we have one this year.

Mr Color wrote:

I, kriers or cubes generally know the layout of the maps and what makes them hard or easy - we actually mention that in the streams
Valkyrie Dimension's high speed + speed-up beginning section
no pain, no game's overall tricky patterns + stream of stacks and sliders
45nen no Yukizakura's traps in Hidden
The low OD in Kyun Kyun Tamaran Inaba-Tan
The irregular rhythm in Shining Wizard
and so on and so forth. We're not professional and we're far from perfect, but anybody who's watched the streams thoroughly knows that we actually are knowledgeable about the map picks.

Also THANK YOU XGeneral2000 for the constructive criticism, even if, as stated above, in our case it's kinda moot

Mr Color wrote:

ztrot usually knows what he's talking about too and generally doesn't mention maps anyway

Zallius and ppy barely ever speak

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Also, I'd like to point out that I find it absolutely hilarious that every time someone mentions a player has an FC or SS, they break it.

Aqo wrote:

do it right
don't just sit quietly and talk about how you're drinking cola
(not meaning to offend anybody, I know it's hard and that you're new to this)

Mr Color wrote:

If both team are FCing the map, we're not gonna get all excited over nothing, it doesn't make sense!

Mara wrote:

I never understand how people can get so much drama out of these things.

Mara wrote:

I never understand how people can get so much drama out of these things. It looks like everyone is going to kill each other.

higurush wrote:

Offending the-

Aqo wrote:

higurush wrote:

Offending the-

this is the core of the problem. that people think of criticism as offense instead of as advice

Makar wrote:

I appreciate the criticism I have gotten so far. However, some of it only has the purpose of offending others because things don't go they way they would like it to.

Aqo wrote:

If I was sitting there as commentator and seeing full-FC-so-far, I'd look at accuracies and throw out stuff like "look at this player, he is really solid with acc on this bpm, he will keep it high all match long. this other player isn't good with 1/4 sliders, notice those slider100s. this player always claims he's not good with AR10, but so far he's SSing this HR map, what interesting standards". etc. dunno. talk about the players. talk about the meta aspect of the whole thing - the team rivalry, the predictions for the match, what happens to each team if they win or lose bracket-wise, and so on. there's always something to talk about.

Mr Color wrote:

It just annoys me to hear unfounded criticism over stuff we actually do correctly. It's like people are purposely trying as hard as they can to bitch about something.

Kanye West wrote:

Now that Aqo mentions it, you guys could incorporate more color commentary (see what I did there?) about the players, teams, maps etc. (Give us a more detailed overview of the map, analyze player strengths, weaknesses etc.) between maps and during lulls in play-by-play. Just some friendly critique.

Makar wrote:

Once the 15 minute rule was made people starting complaining about it even after we gave our reasons and they continued to say the same thing. This also led to people complaining about other things (streaming, commentating).

Loctav wrote:

I hope this makes stuff more clear now. If the critics ate unfounded and just consist of blaming/accusations about stuff that isn't the case, you get replies as before.
But if you actually stay calm and polite and remove your subtextual "you all suck and fail at everything and never think of us", you get appropriate answers.
Please always keep in mind that you are free to suggest something. But pulling off the "drama card" will make is totallyhomo discard any of your words/

KRZY wrote:

Makar wrote:

Once the 15 minute rule was made people starting complaining about it even after we gave our reasons and they continued to say the same thing. This also led to people complaining about other things (streaming, commentating).

I'd like to point out that this is wrong; it's the other way around. Several people, including me, have pointed out how the rule is more harmful than beneficial, yet all we got as a response was "you know where the door is" and "we need time to prepare streams." I've argued how this should not be of higher priority to players, but all Makar keeps saying is that he's given his reasons, he is right, and I am not listening.

I said I'd drop the matter, but his attitude is ridiculous.

KRZY wrote:

Will picking maps that are in the map pool for warmup purposes be allowed? If so, will this not interfere with the MP history later on? I've been told by Loctav after last match that, when we were trying to play the tiebreaker map for fun, we should do it in another room because it will make the MP history look confusing. Is this still the concern?

XPJ38 wrote:

too much text in this thread

less blahblah, more JB/vikings/baguettes/datBrazilianSingerNobodyKnows/PortugalSucks/etc.

Makar wrote:

Think of it this way then: If we are not able to have anything finished by the time you are supposed to play, you won't be able to play because nothing will be setup yet and things will be late. We don't do this so we can be lazy, we do this so you are able to play your match in the time that you had asked for. I've never once asked you to quit the tournament.

KRZY wrote:

Finally, please clarify what "being ready to play" means. If it means the teams must join the multiplayer match via the management's invites 15 minutes prior to the match, then I strongly disagree with this and would like to hear the reasoning behind it.

Loctav wrote:

I tried to keep the time-before-match section as short as possible. Setting 15 minutes is the result of examining the last two round where I hosted many of the hold matches.
These 15 minutes are a pure result of examination of how the majority of matches went and we decided that this amount is low but also high enough to ensure everything (not only the stream, but also giving the teams the chance to shortly discuss their setup and gathering their team) runs smooth without disturbing the schedule and make the tournament run as planned.
You have to keep in mind that such scaled tournaments, spread over such a long time, need a lot of organization, it eats hell of time.
I can understand if you feel like being in the disadvantage because you get 15 min cut off, but also keep in mind that delays of 20+ mins can happen due to hectic situations, since the "match was already supposed to be started".
I highly prefer taking 15 mins of your time than stressing you, me and all the others with circumstances that are resulting out of the lack of time.
It might appear as a disadvantage to you for the first, but on the second, this is only for helping mostly you to have a flowing tournament, that don't make you fail because of hectic, stressed and chaotic situations.

If you are able to collect your teams very quick, you're absolutely free to warm up till time is used up or to calm down and mentally prepare for the ongoing match.
If you collect and warm up or warm up and collect makes no difference, yet the first options is more profitable for the whole OWC.

Mr Color wrote:

You guys were seriously having an argument over hands going cold.

hands. going. cold.

That's all I'll say.

buny wrote:

Good organising, I still see no map pack.

Metro wrote:

buny wrote:

Good organising, I still see no map pack.

Just download each map and stop complaining about stupid shit.

buny wrote:

Metro wrote:

Just download each map and stop complaining about stupid shit.

Just upload the pack and I won't complain about "stupid shit"
Pretty hypocritical when you're complaining about others complaining.

buny wrote:

Regardless of how important it is, it shouldn't go ignored.

Just a quick fix for a small issue is all I'm asking for. No need to be angry.

buny wrote:

Thank you.

s4nCh wrote:

Group Stage 1-3: 7-9 Dec

SteRRuM wrote:

When will we get the group stage 1-3 schedule?

SteRRuM wrote:

schedule

xsrsbsns wrote:

Tired of waiting

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... lemc#gid=0

Use at your own risk.

- Changed SDR for the Netherlands/Ukraine match because the one uploaded was only calculated from only 4 games instead of all 7
- Linked only to mp info, but not to result post or stream
- Did not modify SDR for Thailand & Latvia in the group table because of bugged Inaba game
- Used max scores played by Auto because existing ones are wrong/different
- "Map Usage Percentage" is now (times selected / 16 matches) because this info makes more sense than dividing by 75-77 total maps played
- Slider end combo drops are counted as FC too (sry Kyou)

Mr Color wrote:

Also, the SDR for France is exactly -3,333.

CHECK 'EM

KRZY wrote:

Mr Color wrote:

Also, the SDR for France is exactly -3,333.

CHECK 'EM

Implying France will be 3rd in their group

Mr Color wrote:

KRZY wrote:

Implying France will be 3rd in their group

Oh god.

OH GOD.

You know, that might just happen.

Wishy wrote:

Will there be a week between groupstage and knock-out stage? Asking since there are a few pending matches.