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A little rant about skins.

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Topic Starter
Gabi
if this isn't the appropriate forum please move this somewhere else to the correct one.

first i'd like to say, this isn't your "omg this map i cant fc cause of skin wtf" topic. this is in general speaking to all skins that are made. also i'd like to apolegise if i did not make myself clear on some points.

For me, different skins are very annoying. not all skins are bad or unreadable, but the only one i perform best with is the one i started with a long time ago. some custom skin really messes up game play and in my oppinion, can ruin some great maps sometimes. for now i can just delete the skin, however in the future that wont work anymore.

i know that alot of people are against removing skin elements cause thats how the mapper wanted the map to be played. but what about the player? shouldn't he atleast be able to be comfortable with playing the map? it makes the map harder to read and unfair.

i know people are going to say its as much unfair for me as it is for other people, but i think thats bs.... why should we not be able to choose by ourselves?

anyways now to my main point, i think there should be some guidelines for skins.

*Spinners should have a center point. it makes it easier to see where you are spinning.

*Cursor should not blend in with skin or color so its not visible anymore. (hitcircles and spinners) this is what pisses me off the most, it makes it impossible to see where your cursor are when you make fast movements.


*Hitcircles color should not blend in with hit.png color. it makes it really hard to read approach circles.

feel free to agree/disagree or add more points. but those are just what ruins the most imo.

if this topic is useless and ´nothing will ever be changed, feel free to remove it. i would just like to hear peoples oppinions about this.
Derekku
If there's something blatantly wrong with a skin, then someone would've (or should, for future maps) brought (bring) up the issue in the thread. :X
anonymous_old
I am annoyed at some map-enforced skins.

I point them out when I can, if the map isn't ranked yet.

Otherwise I either delete the skin manually or just not play that map. If I do play it "the meant it was meant to be played," I don't find it as fun as it could be. Nothing wrong with that.

However, most of the ranked skins were "good enough" for the rankers for the map to be ranked. People have different opinions and you can state them freely. It's still the same as "I don't like this stream" or whatever, though.
anonymous_old
Sir idiot, who ninja'd my last post:

If you can't find the centre of the spinner, it is difficult to spin closely around the centre of the spinner.

"Spinners should have a centre point" means that the spinner graphic should indicate somehow the centre of a spinner.

"To see where you are spinning" refers to where on the spinner you are spinning. Yes, you know where your cursor is, but if you don't know where the centre of the spinner is, you don't know where your cursor is relative to it.

EDIT: Sir idiot's post has been removed.
peppy
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Derekku

peppy wrote:

Oops I seem to have deleted useless posts in this thread.
Aww, I missed them :(
Lybydose
Red and Green.

I can't tell the difference between these colors. Your red cursor against your green hitcircles/background/spinner is nearly invisible to me.

Brown vs. Red/Green and Violet vs. Blue are also fairly bad for me.
lukewarmholiday
Whoops I accidentally said i am a cocksucker.
lukewarmholiday
*Spinners should have a center point. it makes it easier to see where you are spinning.
No. This shouldn't be a guideline.

There we go, constructive post.
anonymous_old

Lybydose wrote:

Red and Green.

I can't tell the difference between these colors. Your red cursor against your green hitcircles/background/spinner is nearly invisible to me.

Brown vs. Red/Green and Violet vs. Blue are also fairly bad for me.
I completely forgot about colour blindness and osu!.

That's a major problem, IMO: accessibility. Maybe osu! can have built-in colour blindness simulation filters to help skin makers and such?
Sleep Powder

lukewarmholiday wrote:

*Spinners should have a center point. it makes it easier to see where you are spinning.
No. This should be a guideline.

There we go, corrected post.
How hard is it to make a little center point...really?
Jinxy

lukewarmholiday wrote:

*Spinners should have a center point. it makes it easier to see where you are spinning.
No. This shouldn't be a guideline.
Agreed, this should be a must.


animask wrote:

How hard is it to make a little center point...really?
LuigiHann
Yes, this should be part of the ranking criteria. A skin should not be ugly, and a skin should not fuck up the map. But no, I don't think the player should be able to change/remove skin elements, just like the player can't move or delete hitcircles that they don't like. It's part of the map.

And incidentally, I don't think the cursor should be skinnable on a per-map basis at all. It's too important.
Topic Starter
Gabi

peppy wrote:

If you have a problem with skins in maps, do as I have said before and point them out. We likely need more stringent ranking criteria for these, but they will never be togglable and will be enforced after we move to osz2.
i usually only play pending maps (or some ranked maps when i hear they are very good) so i do look at some pending maps. but i don't have alot of time know, so it's impossible for me to go through all maps, find one with a skin and then say "your skin is annoying" espcially when i get bothered by most custom skins. and i cant do much about it when they are ranked.

i think it would be nice if we could choose our hitcircles atleast. what you have said is probably final, im sorry if i offend you by trying atleast. i just want to say how strongly i disagree with some skins.
Hanyuu
cursor and spinner are the only problem i have with custom skins
lukewarmholiday
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Sleep Powder
People usually try to focus spinning in the center of the spinner when they spin.
With no center it makes it awkward to spin.
lukewarmholiday
Oh yeah tablet users

rolf.

In all honestly I can usually judge the center of a circle because the size of the circle is static every time, and after playing enough I've gotten used to where the center is.
kideddie1501
Not for me, Luke is looking at the big picture here, some will complain about the teeniest detail of things that really don't make much of a difference. It's like bitching over the color of the "BACK" button or something totally irrelevant to gameplay.
lukewarmholiday
I'll give em this cookie since with osz2 out you can't even manually add a dot to the center.(unless I am mistaken)

Actually, If we don't hand this off to user accountability maybe put a forced dot in the center of spinners over the graphic? Or options toggle/etc.

Would fix people from whining about preexisting/pending maps with spinners like this.
anonymous_old
Or people stop making retarded spinner images in the first place.

A playable skin is better than a flashy skin, unless it's user-selectable.
lukewarmholiday

strager wrote:

Being playable is better than being flashy/original
beatmapping_guidelines_in_a_nutshell.txt
kideddie1501

lukewarmholiday wrote:

strager wrote:

Being playable is better than a flashy/original
beatmapping_guidelines_in_a_nutshell.txt
Yup
lukewarmholiday
Alright, just so I'm not going to possibly be misinterpreted in the long run let me ammend my post.


Try to be original and flashy. Always shoot for it when mapping/skinning/anything.

When you start realizing things aren't working like they should, start trimming the fat/reworking it. If people are disliking something of yours, reevaluate it. It's near impossible to see all your flaws when beatmapping, which is why we moderate.
kideddie1501
Me? :?
lukewarmholiday

kideddie1501 wrote:

Me? :?
No not you

But I need to start being more cautious of my wording in discussion posts. I don't want to wait for a person to say BUT THAT MEANS YOU WANT EVERYTHING PLAIN, or something similar.
anonymous_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Teara
Why don't someone just request a feature where the user can force Osu! to use the default skins when the map is actively played, and in reply's you can see the full glory of the skin. A win/win situation for everyone, since Everyone can force osu to use default skin when playing. Thus, the mapper doesn't do all the hard work for nothing, so when you did well you can watch your reply and go oh wow, this is perrttty.

(But let me guess it was requested but denied, but I'm to lazy to search now) I mean we can turn off video's/combo bursts... so why not skins?

Lets face it, why do we play Osu ? I at least try to have fun.

I have to agree with Gabi here. I'm so used to playing with the standard skin of osu, that custom skins ( not all, but most ) tend to throw me off balance and this can be quite annoying.
Mystearica
Gabi's right, I don't know how many maps I've attempted to play where the skin gave me a really hard time. I DO appreciate you guys mapping this stuff making a complimentary skin to go with your map, the effort is definitively noted. But yeah, as Gabi says, a skin shouldn't make a map harder to play. So many skin elements make maps hard to read it's getting really annoying.

I just copy over the skin I use entirely into a song folder if I get really annoyed. Waste of 5~6 mb everytime but what choices do I have?

Also, the whole "Force Default Skin" thing isn't really my cup of tea either. I don't use the default skin and I find it harder to play with it because I'm very used to another skin. This forcing idea seems pretty silly to me also. Why should someone be forced to play any map with xyz skin? We should have a choice.
Teara

Mystearica wrote:

Also, the whole "Force Default Skin" thing isn't really my cup of tea either. I don't use the default skin and I find it harder to play with it because I'm very used to another skin. This forcing idea seems pretty silly to me also. Why should someone be forced to play any map with xyz skin? We should have a choice.

Ok, let me rephrase that. My bad

The currently selected skin the user is using. Also this can be a option you can enable/disable in Options.
CheeseWarlock
I tolerate custom skins, but naturally I'll point out anything that needs to be changed before ranking. I'm not too concerned about minor playability issues, maybe because I'm not the most serious player. If it looks good and plays fairly well, I'll let the mapper skin it how they want.

Forcing skins, though, I rarely appreciate. m980's iNiS-style maps make good use of it, but generally I think you should let the user choose unless you have a VERY SPECIFIC AND LOGICAL REASON for forcing that skin.

EDIT: Forcing skins IS acceptable, though, when there's already been a lot of skinning done by the user, and they want to complete the look. But still try to make the forced skin be somehow relevant to the look or feel of the map.
anonymous_old

Teara wrote:

Why don't someone just request a feature where the user can force Osu! to use the default skins when the map is actively played, and in reply's you can see the full glory of the skin. A win/win situation for everyone, since Everyone can force osu to use default skin when playing. Thus, the mapper doesn't do all the hard work for nothing, so when you did well you can watch your reply and go oh wow, this is perrttty.
No.

In all that time it took you to type that, you could have searched for the request.
Topic Starter
Gabi
please unless you have something good to discuss try not to spam up the topic.
Lesjuh
Delete all skins except for the one you use.

Delete custom skins in maps.
awp

JInxyjem wrote:

lukewarmholiday wrote:

*Spinners should have a center point. it makes it easier to see where you are spinning.
No. This shouldn't be a guideline.
Agreed, this should be a must.


animask wrote:

How hard is it to make a little center point...really?
It's not a matter of difficulty. It's a matter of "does it belong".
Topic Starter
Gabi

awp wrote:

animask wrote:

How hard is it to make a little center point...really?
It's not a matter of difficulty. It's a matter of "does it belong".

strager wrote:

If you were given the choice between 'playable' and 'flashy,' go with 'playable.'
this ^. if the centerpoint does not belong there, then dont put the spinner in the skin :\.
awp
It can be playable without a big glaring dot in the middle of it.
anonymous_old

awp wrote:

It can be playable without a big glaring dot in the middle of it.
It still has to be clear where the centre of the spinner is. Otherwise, other players may not find it (easily) playable.
awp
Yes, it does. And I'm saying that can be achieved without a glaring dot.
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