VelperK wrote:
Yeah, I thought that maybe with the recent DT bugfix peppy brought out it could be interesting to increase this mod's score modifications to 1,12 just like HR AND decrease FL's score modification to 1,06 so this way the mode rewards more skills than memorization.
Discuss, obviously!
hey ur sad memory is a GOOD skill because it shows how pro u are by remembering long combos but noone realizes how lazy they are not trying itDrafura wrote:
Okay dude I leave the thread have a good time to make this happend with your awesome sensefull arguments.
well how about pros like us so ur saying that u should reduce score 4 us real fairmiss_master wrote:
for me,DT is harder than HR..
little example : Antonia - Marionettemiss_master wrote:
for me,DT is harder than HR..
and if i do it do you have any prob with it?Seph wrote:
FL is easily exploitable, you can use gamma to make it easier, most hacks made are for FL cause its not easily detected when you watch a replay (in contrast with speedhacks where you can tell the difference between legit play and whatnot), hell you're even playing with gamma before, you even had those videos of it, ofc you'd say no.
FL is NOT harder than neither HD or DT, ITS A NO-MOD MODIFICATION. It's the same shit as if you were playing with none mods at all but with a big chunk of the screen darkened, you don't need skill at all for FCing stuff that way, just memory; which, I remind you, should be less rewarded than skill.Deif wrote:
In an utopic world, where no external aids can be used, FL would still be harder than HD or DT.
And, as Drafura stated before: DT becomes harder than HR when AR = 9 or 10. According to that, from AR0 to AR8 HR > DT. If we consider the grade of difficulty of a mode (aka multiplier value) pondering the # of ARs where that mode is more (or less) difficult, HR is still harder than DT in 9 out of 11 different ARs.
tl;dr version: HR/FL should still be 1,12x and HD/DT 1,06x.
According to the speed of the notes (or which is the same, the reflexes a player need to see-catch a note) that sentence is a mere fact, and not a biased opinion of me. It's true that DT is faster than HR in those ARs, thus more reflexes are needed.VelperK wrote:
"DT becomes harder than HR when AR = 9 or 10." Now you just stated a subjective fact, sort of speaking. This is not always the case though since DT needs a lot more of maniobrability of the ryuuta in order to catch something. In HR you just press dash in some need-to-memorize spot and you're done. And if you're going to put as an example a streamy map, that doesn't count because it'll be harder with DT than with HR if the CS was low enough.
I thought you meant that ONLY in those cases DT is harder than HR. If not then yes that's true, DT is always harder than HR with those ARDeif wrote:
According to the speed of the notes (or which is the same, the reflexes a player need to see-catch a note) that sentence is a mere fact, and not a biased opinion of me. It's true that DT is faster than HR in those ARs, thus more reflexes are needed.VelperK wrote:
"DT becomes harder than HR when AR = 9 or 10." Now you just stated a subjective fact, sort of speaking. This is not always the case though since DT needs a lot more of maniobrability of the ryuuta in order to catch something. In HR you just press dash in some need-to-memorize spot and you're done. And if you're going to put as an example a streamy map, that doesn't count because it'll be harder with DT than with HR if the CS was low enough.
VelperK wrote:
FL is NOT harder than neither HD or DT, ITS A NO-MOD MODIFICATION. It's the same shit as if you were playing with none mods at all but with a big chunk of the screen darkened, you don't need skill at all for FCing stuff that way, just memory; which, I remind you, should be less rewarded than skill.
I don't agree with that. Basically in HD once your eyes get used to the mod you're able to succeed ALMOST every map, with a few exceptions (Allow me please to say that as HD-Player). Anyhow, FL is much more difficult because you'll never get a 100% feeling where the next fruit will appear. I tried it so often for myself. In HD you are prepared of the fruits because you see them already in the upper part of the screen. For me personally the modification "FL > HD" is justifiable. And I guess it's like that for the majority, not for everyone of course.KairaLance wrote:
HD = FL
Memorization is a skill.Wishy22 wrote:
For some reason, there are players that think memorization equals skill,
Ahah HDKurokami wrote:
HD<FL
HD<DT
HD<HR
On low AR Maps:Kurokami wrote:
Memorization is a skill.Wishy22 wrote:
For some reason, there are players that think memorization equals skill,
Anyways
HD<FL
HD<DT
HD<HR
DT>FL
DT<=HR
FL<HR
These are really depends on the map of course. But If you want to change the multiplier for FL then you need to change the others too since FL>HD. This means they are not worth for equal multiplier.
As I said before:119410501 wrote:
On low AR Maps:
HD> FL
HD> DT
HD> HR
These are really depends on the map of course.
It's "NO MORE" possible to hack FL, the proof of what I say it's right the fact that even Hatsune Miku who was the smartest FL hacker got finally banned.Seph wrote:
No HR is definitely not harder than DT on most maps, its just in par with HR.
on high bpm maps DT is harder than HR, maps with weird patterns (such as fruits being close/silly hyperdashes appearing everywhere)
on a side note HR definitely does make a map harder, you'll need better reflexes and better ryuuta control over it.
also, are you seriously talking about Hatsune Miku in here? tell me, how long before he got banned? get your facts straight before you post something.
P.S. I didn't notice Drafura's mod multiplier but I definitely support that, but most likely impossible to happen, as for now that is.
Edit: AR hackers aren't really hard to detect, on contrast to FL, on hard maps that is. You'll know someone who hacks when you get common sense, its a great skill to have, and most of you don't even have it.
Kurokami wrote:
Memorization is a skill.Wishy22 wrote:
For some reason, there are players that think memorization equals skill,
Playing with the pression of FL, especially the 200x FL, is a skill, remembering all the spots while playing is a skill.VelperK wrote:
You can't improve memory with a game, FL is used by people with a genetical advantage over others in this topic to get higher scores because the admins/developers think that this trait should be rewarded as a skill, which of course is not.
1- THAT'S WHY I MEAN, you can actually EARN a skill with the hidden mod, your brain can get used to it by training with it quite a lot...Sey wrote:
I don't agree with that. Basically in HD once your eyes get used to the mod you're able to succeed ALMOST every map, with a few exceptions (Allow me please to say that as HD-Player). Anyhow, FL is much more difficult because you'll never get a 100% feeling where the next fruit will appear. I tried it so often for myself. In HD you are prepared of the fruits because you see them already in the upper part of the screen. For me personally the modification "FL > HD" is justifiable. And I guess it's like that for the majority, not for everyone of course.VelperK wrote:
FL is NOT harder than neither HD or DT, ITS A NO-MOD MODIFICATION. It's the same shit as if you were playing with none mods at all but with a big chunk of the screen darkened, you don't need skill at all for FCing stuff that way, just memory; which, I remind you, should be less rewarded than skill.
I don't want to go OT anymore, read my PM, after you read it, take it as a personal opinion.Seph wrote:
Can't tell if stupid or what.
Just because the "smartest" hacker got banned doesn't mean they'd stop producing those kind of hacks. They only update theirs to match the current build so it won't get detected.
Read my reply with the common sense part for AR hackers, you most definitely need that, common sense I mean.
1- There is no pression if you are relaxed, that's something external to the game though.119410501 wrote:
Playing with the pression of FL, especially the 200x FL, is a skill, remembering all the spots while playing is a skill.
FL skill is based on prediction, intuition AND memory, not just memory, and it gets trained with experience. A player who plays for long time FL gets improved and can memorize faster than a player who just started TRAINING it.
I could reverse it as " X (<- depending on how good your genetical reflexes are)"VelperK wrote:
2- Why do you think we have memory for there? That's right! Play the map X (<- depending on how good your genetical memory is) times and let your memory do the rest! Nothing else ;D
The simple fact that FL is hard accepts automatically the fact that memorizing is a skill.VelperK wrote:
1- There is no pression if you are relaxed, that's something external to the game though.119410501 wrote:
Playing with the pression of FL, especially the 200x FL, is a skill, remembering all the spots while playing is a skill.
FL skill is based on prediction, intuition AND memory, not just memory, and it gets trained with experience. A player who plays for long time FL gets improved and can memorize faster than a player who just started TRAINING it.
2- The fuck? THIS IS MEMORIZING.
3- You can't train something that doesn't relate with a game at all (not a skill), and should be developed outside of it.
That's fallacious, and you're mad.119410501 wrote:
The simple fact that FL is hard accepts automatically the fact that memorizing is a skill.
Deal with it. Or think whatever you want.
Your fact is wrong. You dont need reflexes for something you CAN NOT OBSERVE.119410501 wrote:
I could reverse it as " X (<- depending on how good your genetical reflexes are)"VelperK wrote:
2- Why do you think we have memory for there? That's right! Play the map X (<- depending on how good your genetical memory is) times and let your memory do the rest! Nothing else ;D
But with Alzheimer, memorizing is a skill.VelperK wrote:
random example: dealing with Alzheimer is hard, but not a skill at all. -.-
You can't improve memory with a gameYes, you can.
You can improve your HR skills since it affects the direct gameplay of the mode (std, taiko and o!m too). Oh and you can also improve your reflexes ingame if you play a lot too indeed. Yes, HR does require memory but only for hard spots, overal speaking you just need more precision with the catcher.119410501 wrote:
So HR is not a skill since is suitable only for people with good genetical reflexes? Oh, HR requires memory too. Doesn't it?
1- I meant that dealing with Alzheimer is hard if you're the guy's kin for example. It's nothing related to what you said.Kurokami wrote:
But with Alzheimer, memorizing is a skill.VelperK wrote:
random example: dealing with Alzheimer is hard, but not a skill at all. -.-
/me runs*You can't improve memory with a gameYes, you can.
You can improve your FL skills since it affects the direct gameplay of the mode (std, taiko and o!m too). Oh and you can also improve your memory ingame if you play a lot too indeed.VelperK wrote:
You can improve your HR skills since it affects the direct gameplay of the mode (std, taiko and o!m too). Oh and you can also improve your reflexes ingame if you play a lot too indeed. Yes, HR does require memory but only for hard spots, overal speaking you just need more precision with the catcher.