90% Dimming limit: Why?

Doodley

Joined January 2010

Doodley 2012-09-02T18:35:43+00:00

Not to jump in the middle of things here, but I'd like to show off a comparison between 90% and black background. I left my own skin on.

When was the last time you were ever actually distracted by a map background? Be honest.

Play a map with just a background. And then play it with 90% dim. And finally, play it with a black background. Come back and tell me just how much the background stole away your eyes in the middle of things. Because I have never, ever blamed the background for screwing me up.

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T18:38:33+00:00

Peppy labeled editing the mapset's files (which includes removing/editing backgrounds/skins/storyboards) as cheating. He does not think that playing with 100% dim compared to 90% dim is cheating (or maybe I'm wrong, you gotta ask him). "Hardcore" players started complaining before fun spoiler was in place, when peppy said not to remove backgrounds. It's been like a month or two since you could dim the background. Most "hardcore" players don't even know about the background dim because all of their stuff is all removed.

Gens

osu! Alumni

3,485 posts

Joined August 2008

Gens 2012-09-02T18:42:55+00:00

DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:
This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.

BATs could be able to edit it online (as we already can with online offset and other thingies), in case someone disagrees with something being deletable in an old map. The mapper can then just request a BAT to fix it. That way, everyone who doesn't like it complains about the map and not about osu!~
Scores would be kept, as it makes no sense to delete them; it's not like peppy was planning a score reset for when osz2 came.

I had a feeling the idea had already been brought up and it was shot down, but well, I haven't been really active these days to know what's going on.

Natteke

6,538 posts

Joined August 2009

Natteke 2012-09-02T18:59:17+00:00

Mithost wrote:
"If there is no disadvantage for a 90%, then it makes no sense that a 100% dim would be considered cheating"

I'll use the analogy from the last thread. What if you were an artist. You make a nice painting of a mountain, a sunset, whatever you like. You painted that picture to be appreciated the way you made it. A few years later, an art critique walks into the art gallery where your painting is. He walks up to your painting, looks at it for a total of 10 seconds, then takes some scissors and cuts out a slice of your painting, a key part of it to be precise. He then chooses to critique it like he would to any other piece of art. Your first question would be, "Why would this man cut my picture?" His response is, "I can critique your painting better when I remove the distractions."

LOL Strong logic, then how about not allowing any changes to the map? Let's just keep all BGs at 100%, skins as they are etc if you want to keep your "painting" fully assembled? it should be either that or nothing at all.

Also how very nice of you all to speak for every mapper out there. I'm a mapper and I prefer people who play my maps to enjoy my work any way they want, with or without skins or backgrounds, as long as they have fun, I'm happy.

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T19:09:42+00:00

Gens wrote:
DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:
This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.
BATs could be able to edit it online (as we already can with online offset and other thingies), in case someone disagrees with something being deletable in an old map. The mapper can then just request a BAT to fix it. That way, everyone who doesn't like it complains about the map and not about osu!~
Scores would be kept, as it makes no sense to delete them; it's not like peppy was planning a score reset for when osz2 came.

I had a feeling the idea had already been brought up and it was shot down, but well, I haven't been really active these days to know what's going on.

I guess at this point we're just waiting for peppy to comment after he reads every counter-argument in this thread to his proposed plan.

Come on, peppy, we're waiting for you!

( ´ ・ω ・)

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T19:22:46+00:00

This isn't a feature request and sadly I don't see why he would reply to this one. I hope he does, but it's not guaranteed.

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T19:31:54+00:00

Mithost wrote:
This isn't a feature request and sadly I don't see why he would reply to this one. I hope he does, but it's not guaranteed.

This isn't the feature request forum, this is General Development.

edit: I just tried out 90% dimming for myself. The background/storyboard is still very noticeable, even after the dimming, and is very different from a 100% removal. It's much more noticeable in gameplay than it is in a screenshot.

( ´ ・ω ・)

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T19:44:31+00:00

It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T19:52:53+00:00

Mithost wrote:
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.

If he can be convinced to go to 90%, he can be convinced to go to 100%. It might take a long time as it has in the past, but I really hope he sees the response and goes back on his current decision, for the best.

( ´ ・ω ・)

Doodley

310 posts

Joined January 2010

Doodley 2012-09-02T19:55:01+00:00

Mithost wrote:
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.

This is one of the things that bothers me about the toggles. Peppy never ever wanted to add them in: when he did, he added a condition so you could actually appreciate some of the creativity that goes into osu!.

So even after getting their toggles, people still complain.

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T20:13:16+00:00

DADDYCOOLVIPPER wrote:
Mithost wrote:
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
If he can be convinced to go to 90%, he can be convinced to go to 100%. It might take a long time as it has in the past, but I really hope he sees the response and goes back on his current decision, for the best.

He put it at 90% max for a reason. I don't believe you understand the word compromise.

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T20:25:50+00:00

Mithost wrote:
He put it at 90% max for a reason. I don't believe you understand the word compromise.

I don't believe in compromise when it comes to features like this, just unwillingness to go all the way, for whatever reason.

( ´ ・ω ・)

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T20:34:02+00:00

Well it's his game and no matter what people complain about, he doesn't have to change anything. Stop whining about 10% background dim differences.

CXu

osu! Alumni

3,558 posts

Joined March 2009

CXu 2012-09-02T20:41:31+00:00

I love how this one random guy "represents" all these "hardcore" players of osu!

Wafuu~/Boats

~Mod one of these and get a cookie!~
Mod queue.
Feel free to poke me in-game if you have no idea what I'm talking about in my mod.

fartownik

2,189 posts

Joined December 2008

fartownik 2012-09-02T20:53:50+00:00

Doodley wrote:
Peppy never ever wanted to add them in: when he did, he added a condition so you could actually appreciate some of the creativity that goes into osu!.

What creativity are you talking about? Googling a random image and putting it as the background is nothing creative. The creativity itself exists in osu! in the form of beatmaps (their patterns and rhythm), not the image under them. If the map is good it will keep being good even if you delete the image of it. Though if you want to mask your beatmaps' faults then you add a cutie nice bg that brings people to play it.

As a mapper/(hardcore) player/modder/MAT:
THE MAPS ARE JUST ENOUGH.

winber1

4,520 posts

Joined February 2010

winber1 2012-09-02T21:25:00+00:00

fartownik wrote:
THE MAPS ARE JUST ENOUGH.

Some reason for me, I actually like having a background. I feel like I'm missing something important if it's just black, so even before this fun spoiler thing, I rarely removed the background. I only did if I was extremely determined to FC something, or the bg was just way too overwhelmingly colorful, which not that many maps were imo.

For me, the background is actually important, even if I do use 90% dim. But probably that's because i'm weird.

my code doesn't work still

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T22:00:23+00:00

winber1 wrote:
fartownik wrote:
THE MAPS ARE JUST ENOUGH.
Some reason for me, I actually like having a background. I feel like I'm missing something important if it's just black, so even before this fun spoiler thing, I rarely removed the background. I only did if I was extremely determined to FC something, or the bg was just way too overwhelmingly colorful, which not that many maps were imo.

For me, the background is actually important, even if I do use 90% dim. But probably that's because i'm weird.

Adding the option to remove the background won't hinder you from doing what you want, though. The only people this change affects are the ones who would have a problem with it, so why have the change in the first place?

( ´ ・ω ・)

Ekaru

3,617 posts

Joined July 2008

Ekaru 2012-09-02T22:01:43+00:00

CXu wrote:
I love how this one random guy "represents" all these "hardcore" players of osu!

*looks at this guy's profile*

9 warnings - a lot related to various forms of trolling - in about a week, and he can't even easily FC Hards on top of that? Well, damn, this has got to be the most effective trolling attempt on osu! that I've ever seen.

EDIT: And now he'll claim that he's not a troll and then the topic will dissolve into a flame war and then get locked. Just watch. ;P

CXu

osu! Alumni

3,558 posts

Joined March 2009

CXu 2012-09-02T22:04:23+00:00

My popcorn is ready.

Wafuu~/Boats

~Mod one of these and get a cookie!~
Mod queue.
Feel free to poke me in-game if you have no idea what I'm talking about in my mod.

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T22:11:38+00:00

~~inb4lock~~

:3

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T22:19:11+00:00

Ekaru wrote:
*looks at this guy's profile*

9 warnings - a lot related to various forms of trolling - in about a week, and he can't even easily FC Hards on top of that? Well, damn, this has got to be the most effective trolling attempt on osu! that I've ever seen.

EDIT: And now he'll claim that he's not a troll and then the topic will dissolve into a flame war and then get locked. Just watch. ;P

I know you called it but I'm not trolling, a very skilled player was talking to me about it and said that he and a few others would stop playing if peppy disallowed the ability to remove a storyboard and that it'd cause imbalance, so I made a thread about it.

( ´ ・ω ・)

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T22:32:42+00:00

A very skilled player and his friends are scrubs and cant handle backgrounds.

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T22:52:21+00:00

Mithost wrote:
A very skilled player and his friends are scrubs and cant handle backgrounds.

I'm afraid I'll have to trust the very skilled player and his friends over you, they are the professionals after all

( ´ ・ω ・)

jesse1412

1,457 posts

Joined January 2010

jesse1412 2012-09-02T22:55:56+00:00

Mithost wrote:
A very skilled player and his friends are scrubs and cant handle backgrounds.

You are a scrub. Good day sir.

I just need to add this too: stop posting.

You are trying to form an argument by insulting people.

Just came back to add this: seriously stop.

Really I can't emphasize this enough: leave.

apologize to all the actual posters.

Last edited by jesse1412 2012-09-02T23:02:43+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T23:01:36+00:00

lollll this "argument" is going downhill fast now.

jesse1412

1,457 posts

Joined January 2010

jesse1412 2012-09-02T23:01:48+00:00

Mithost wrote:
lollll this "argument" is going downhill fast now.

go away.

Seriously this thread was going great but someone had to insult a group of people they don't even know.

Last edited by jesse1412 2012-09-02T23:10:40+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

Phish_old

154 posts

Joined January 2011

Phish_old 2012-09-02T23:05:44+00:00

Mithost wrote:
lollll this "argument" is going downhill fast now.

go away srsly

bad English :3

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T23:17:22+00:00

jesus1412 wrote:
Mithost wrote:
lollll this "argument" is going downhill fast now.
go away.

Seriously this thread was going great but someone had to insult a group of people they don't even know.

Keep it to PM, you're adding to the problem even though you want to help get this to peppy.

All we can do is wait, now.

( ´ ・ω ・)

Mithos

636 posts

Joined February 2011

Mithos 2012-09-02T23:21:22+00:00

"I don't think peppy will give into your ideas"

"Get out"

Well that escalated quickly.

Anyways... If you really want to get peppy to see this, PM him. You can argue this with him. Me leaving this thread wont get peppy here any quicker. :/

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T23:22:45+00:00

actually I just had a thought

The more you post, the more noticeable it is in the forums, keep posting!

(just joking, I'll PM peppy a link to this thread now)

( ´ ・ω ・)

Zare

1,512 posts

Joined March 2012

Zare 2012-09-02T23:27:26+00:00

calling peppy here will only cause him to lock this thread, which should have happened 4 pages earlier. So yeah, go ahead.

DaddyCoolVipper

342 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

DaddyCoolVipper 2012-09-02T23:43:41+00:00