I wonder why it can happen that you improve your score but lose pp? It just happened to me on a song which was in my Best Performance list. I improved my rank and I lost around 20 pp. (I also lost 0,01 accuracy, maybe that's the problem)
Yeah. As long as people act like this I doubt anything good can happen out of all of this. :<Blue Dragon wrote:
lol someone deleted everything
Ok I improved the accuracy now, too and the PP got way higher now.roym899 wrote:
I wonder why it can happen that you improve your score but lose pp? It just happened to me on a song which was in my Best Performance list. I improved my rank and I lost around 20 pp. (I also lost 0,01 accuracy, maybe that's the problem)
Nope, I had the same issue even though I also improved the accuracy of my record. I guess it's some weird bug or something like that.roym899 wrote:
I wonder why it can happen that you improve your score but lose pp? It just happened to me on a song which was in my Best Performance list. I improved my rank and I lost around 20 pp. (I also lost 0,01 accuracy, maybe that's the problem)
Well, that's nice for you then. PP can still decrease even with improved accuracy though.roym899 wrote:
I wonder why it can happen that you improve your score but lose pp? It just happened to me on a song which was in my Best Performance list. I improved my rank and I lost around 20 pp. (I also lost 0,01 accuracy, maybe that's the problem)
Ok I improved the accuracy now, too and the PP got way higher now.
Player C realized that under the new Aqo replay point rewarding system, he should play the map a 1000 times on a machine disconnected from the net until he could do it in his sleep. Then he moved over to the connected machine, played it once and SSed it, scoring beau coup de Aqo-PP.Aqo wrote:
I'd just like to point something out that just occurred to me, which is related to how scoring and the PP system works with taking into account only good plays and not bad ones:
We have Player A and Player B, playing a map.
Player A first played that map with 89% accuracy and a few miss, and then proceeded to retry that map again and again for several hours, having about 50-100 retries on it, until eventually getting an SS on it. Even despite getting that SS, if Player A kept playing that map he would most likely get 95%-97% accuracy on an average run.
Player B played that map and had 98% accuracy on his first try. He thought he might try going for an SS on it, so he played it again, then getting about 98% again, maybe slightly higher. He then decided this map isn't very fun for him, and moved on.
Who do you think is a more skilled player, A or B?
And who is PP going to rate higher?
Only rewarding good plays and not penalizing for bad plays is one of the main factors that lead PP to rate farming over skill on a lot of the maps. While it's understandable that penalizing bad plays might be demoralizing for all of the players who are not used to competitive ranking boards, the system has to work in a way that makes sense when going with the decision of only taking into account good plays (this is related to worth of SS/S/etc, on different levels of OD. An SS on low OD usually means no more than "farming" and not actual "skill" with the current system and the nature of what maps players choose to play. Rewarding extra for high-accuracy on a system that ignores retries basically rewards extra for farming and for playing easier maps).That's not farming. Farming would be if you could just keep playing new maps and have your PP grow without end. You can't do that in the new system, because the weighting curve will cut you off after so many maps, and the only way you can get more PP then is to score higher than your previous plays. It might look like you can farm, because if your PP is built on junk already, playing low level maps can stoke things up a bit and look like farming. But it's ultimately self defeating... eventually you'll need to post better and better plays to advance. Plus, better scores means that you get to add more of them together (because the weighting function won't push them under the threshold until later)... it's bonus squared. Sure there is a bit of an issue with PP being "soft" for lower values... where a player might be able to advance quicker in the short term with lower level maps, but another player playing higher level maps will be actively becoming a better player, and will ultimately be able to score higher.
and what's stopping good players doing the same and beating the "noobs" ranks?Jordan wrote:
ROFL just as expected. Now that everyone knows high weighted maps every noob can go farm good ranks on simple maps and get loads of pp for nothing. Gj publishing the list...
lazinessnrii wrote:
and what's stopping good players doing the same and beating the "noobs" ranks?
i thought the point of online games with rankings WAS competitivityJordan wrote:
ROFL just as expected. Now that everyone knows high weighted maps every noob can go farm good ranks on simple maps and get loads of pp for nothing. Gj publishing the list...
funny, I thought the point of games overall was fun :/Blue Dragon wrote:
i thought the point of online games with rankings WAS competitivityJordan wrote:
ROFL just as expected. Now that everyone knows high weighted maps every noob can go farm good ranks on simple maps and get loads of pp for nothing. Gj publishing the list...
why would anyone do that anyways? the list of highest pp ranks is there.Tanzklaue wrote:
plus some bored cracks could get behind the alggorythm, but that's really unrealistic.
but it is and it isnt, the list goes some way but is flawed imo, either with high rank maps that dont give much, or maps that arent even on it that give a fucking shitloadBlue Dragon wrote:
why would anyone do that anyways? the list of highest pp ranks is there.Tanzklaue wrote:
plus some bored cracks could get behind the alggorythm, but that's really unrealistic.
This is like score farming. Boring. That's what stops at least me from doing it. The original aim of PP was to reward good scores, not a certain set of beatmaps. :>nrii wrote:
and what's stopping good players doing the same and beating the "noobs" ranks?Jordan wrote:
ROFL just as expected. Now that everyone knows high weighted maps every noob can go farm good ranks on simple maps and get loads of pp for nothing. Gj publishing the list...
btw you could already do this by checking people like sette and shadowsouls top ranks, full of hards you could dt for easy pp
Everyone loves playing hards with DT...nrii wrote:
and what's stopping good players doing the same and beating the "noobs" ranks?Jordan wrote:
ROFL just as expected. Now that everyone knows high weighted maps every noob can go farm good ranks on simple maps and get loads of pp for nothing. Gj publishing the list...
btw you could already do this by checking people like sette and shadowsouls top ranks, full of hards you could dt for easy pp
NoJAKANYAN wrote:
Everyone loves playing hards with DT...
I'm not really crying over nothing xD just saying what Tom said: farming is boring. I want to play the hardest diff of a map to gain pp (talking of already high rank) not simple diffs that give me 5 times more pp than some insanes :[nrii wrote:
dont get me wrong im not saying its good this way, just that this guy is crying over nothingTom94 wrote:
This is like score farming. Boring. That's what stops at least me from doing it. The original aim of PP was to reward good scores, not a certain set of beatmaps. :>
Just be patient~peppy wrote:
I plan on making a fallback pp calculation for people with less top-500 records. I don't plan on increasing the number past 500 (because it begins to get both intensive to calculate, and less meaningful with the current algorithm) but do plan on allowing people without such records to still improve their pp to visible levels. This will likely work based on your ranks achieved (and possible ranked score).
Depends on OD of coursenrii wrote:
does anyone else think 95-97% hr needs a boost? i've overwrote a couple of my easy hd SS with this range of hr acc and lost 3-4 pp per score. i know that the acc is bad but as someone who doesnt play hr, its a lot harder in my eyes to get a 97% on hhr than an SS on hd yet the hd SS was giving me more pp for a lower rank
the map i lost loads on was od8, i grinded it for an hour and took a 98% hd+hr and gained loads more than hd SS was worth, so thats fine, but the 96~ run i made to start dropped me by 4 pp from a hd SS. i forgot to mention this was actually hd+hr, so double mod vs hd ss and i still lost pp just from the acc drop.Kert wrote:
Depends on OD of course
I'd say that 97+ is good enough for OD8 HR and could be counted as a better score than HD SS
96+ for OD9 and OD10
I am skeptical about this. Programs have managed to do much more complicated things without unreasonable performance strains. It seems more likely that peppy doesn't want to fix a design flaw with the algorithm itself that makes going past 500 ranks meaningless. In the programming world, these flaws are probably based on dependencies.Yuugoh wrote:
Again, this.Just be patient~peppy wrote:
I plan on making a fallback pp calculation for people with less top-500 records. I don't plan on increasing the number past 500 (because it begins to get both intensive to calculate, and less meaningful with the current algorithm) but do plan on allowing people without such records to still improve their pp to visible levels. This will likely work based on your ranks achieved (and possible ranked score).
It ranks effort, no viable skill ranking will ever be incorporated into osuAqo wrote:
However PP is supposed to rate skill, not effort, right?
Are you suggesting its impossible?JappyBabes wrote:
It ranks effort, no viable skill ranking will ever be incorporated into osuAqo wrote:
However PP is supposed to rate skill, not effort, right?
Ok, good point. However performance is still directly related to skill. To perform well you must first perform, and if you don't perform enough or at all you won't get rated for it - this much is true. But to be able to perform well you need the skill to do it, or else even with enough time it shouldn't be possible for you.lolcubes wrote:
There is no system in the world which measures true skill. These aren't skill points, they are performance points, and they judge a person's performance. A person can be skilled to unmeasurable levels, however if he doesn't perform then he won't have good performance points.
While performance is affected by skill, it is not skill rating.
This is true, but back then you had to spend a year or so to get even to top 100, because of the amount of beatmaps. It certainly doesn't take a year to get to high PP, if you really deserve it. Playing should be rewarded, not how "good" you are while you aren't playing.Aqo wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my belief that PP was introduced because people complained that the old scoring system rated how much time players put into the game and not how "good" they are, which is why the need for a new rating system arose.
While players who don't perform do not deserve a high performance rating, isn't the inverse true as well? Players who do get high performance rating should be the ones that perform well, not just the one who perform a lot.Well, this is already happening. It's just that you probably didn't get to that number yet.
I thought we already established that even if we had a perfect difficulty calculation formula for maps it wouldn't be used to rankings because: I don't have a clue why not actuallyTheVileOne wrote:
I have to say this about differences in harder difficulties. My thoughts i that it would be balanced if the pp system took percent failed in mind when it decided how Easy/Hard something is. And the harder a map is, the lower the pass rate, and that means it will be worth more pp regardless of if it's popular. Remember there are different factors that determine how much pp a difficulty is worth. I'm not sure what exactly those factors are, but I have no reason to assume they are inaccurate and we shouldn't make such claims without evidence of such inaccuracies.
Besides the difference is probably fairly insignificant anyways. But even if I did assume it would matter, then it would give difficulty the point advantage anyways, which would invalidate the balance claim. Harder difficulties get higher pp gains. What's so wrong with associating difficulty with skill level?
I still feel almost everyone would prefer a system based on difficulty rather than the amount of players which play a map; I think it would be less flawed than the current system atleast. Even if one in 5 maps were slightly out it's still better than the current weightings which appear to be random maps everywhere.peppy wrote:
Such thoughts could potentially be used to make a new star rating system, but are redundant in pp calculations. I am not using any map heuristics in pp calculations because they always have limitations, and can be manipulated by mappers.
plus those maps were insanes, but you are too good for this gameTom94 wrote:
Lol. Today I actually tried ranking hards to see how far I could get. In mere 3hours of ranking I got from #37 to#25#23! What the hell. (Nearly) all of the #1s I did today were easier than the DT I did yesterday... which earned me zero to 1 PP per rank.
We srsly need a way to properly filter the easier maps. It's just ridiculous how easy one can rank if one just ranked the easy, boring stuff. D:
Well.. to be fair, I got a good day in terms of accuracy today.
Still easy compared to the ranks I usually do... and the ones other good players usually do. :>Tanzklaue wrote:
plus those maps were insanes, but you are too good for this gameTom94 wrote:
Lol. Today I actually tried ranking hards to see how far I could get. In mere 3hours of ranking I got from #37 to#25#23! What the hell. (Nearly) all of the #1s I did today were easier than the DT I did yesterday... which earned me zero to 1 PP per rank.
We srsly need a way to properly filter the easier maps. It's just ridiculous how easy one can rank if one just ranked the easy, boring stuff. D:
Well.. to be fair, I got a good day in terms of accuracy today.
Just take every single top rank from himnrii wrote:
please keep farming shadowsouls top ranks, pleaseTom94 wrote:
Still easy compared to the ranks I usually do... and the ones other good players usually do. :>
he doesn't think that, nobody in germany thinks that.thelewa wrote:
Just take every single top rank from himnrii wrote:
please keep farming shadowsouls top ranks, please
If he still thinks that he's the best player in Germany after that, well shit.
You probably lost internet connection and scores didn't submit online.RAMPAGE88 wrote:
I don't know what's happend .. I can only do a local score http://prntscr.com/dhj8r
yesterday I had 3 maps in first place and all moves to local score only no online score
I do. Not really.Tanzklaue wrote:
he doesn't think that, nobody in germany thinks that.
This.silmarilen wrote:
ive been getting a lot of pp only to see them disappear over night, but i think there is a topic in technical support about it
Something like this. I got 20 pp daily then all of them disappears until I'm sleeping. And even the graph is not showing it.silmarilen wrote:
ive been getting a lot of pp only to see them disappear over night, but i think there is a topic in technical support about it
Bullshitlewa strikes again!thelewa wrote:
I'm starting to get pissed off
I'm still at #10 even though I'm not supposed to even be in the top 100
Yes and you belong in top 5.silmarilen wrote:
i agree #10 is too high, but you definetly belong in the top 100
Well, this is a thread made to point out questions and discuss about the system in general. So we post its errors in order for peppy to fix them...BrokenArrow wrote:
just sick of people crying about how their epic ultra scores didn't give them pp at all.
peppy please fix standard maps giving more pp than taiko difficulties. there's a huge skill-difference between them, and it's annoying to see easy/normal #1 hunters having a better overall rank than people who are at least ABLE to get into the top 40 of a taiko diff. (while those easy/normal rankers barely pass them)
yeah I forgot for 1 minute that this isn't Offtopic, my fault.VelperK wrote:
Well, this is a thread made to point out questions and discuss about the system in general. So we post its errors in order for peppy to fix them...BrokenArrow wrote:
just sick of people crying about how their epic ultra scores didn't give them pp at all.
peppy please fix standard maps giving more pp than taiko difficulties. there's a huge skill-difference between them, and it's annoying to see easy/normal #1 hunters having a better overall rank than people who are at least ABLE to get into the top 40 of a taiko diff. (while those easy/normal rankers barely pass them)
It's okay if you don't care, though that "0 fucks given" was unnecesary, and no, i'm not crying or anything. It's just weird, that's all
BrokenArrow wrote:
just sick of people crying about how their epic ultra scores didn't give them pp at all.
peppy please fix standard maps giving more pp than taiko difficulties. there's a huge skill-difference between them, and it's annoying to see easy/normal #1 hunters having a better overall rank than people who are at least ABLE to get into the top 40 of a taiko diff. (while those easy/normal rankers barely pass them)
A's killing the PP. DXVelperK wrote:
It's just weird, that's all
I don't think this has to do anything with this thread.jesse1412 wrote:
LOL MY NAME IS JESSE
no, he single-handedly resolved this whole issue.Kurokami wrote:
I don't think this has to do anything with this thread.jesse1412 wrote:
LOL MY NAME IS JESSE
LOL..?? seriously 0 pp VelperK!VelperK wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2
0 pp
Jordan wrote:
ok I got no pp from http://osu.ppy.sh/b/699
what
the
fuck
That is because the maps you played have been de-valuated fast. Usually new maps. I gained about 50 pp for one map (it was a new map), and when pp loss was calculated I lost 26 pp on that map. I think this is actually working as intended.Tanzklaue wrote:
I get pp drops since 3-4 consecutive days \o/
all of them happen when it is evening-night in germany.
Same happened to me with a #1 on a new maplolcubes wrote:
That is because the maps you played have been de-valuated fast. Usually new maps. I gained about 50 pp for one map (it was a new map), and when pp loss was calculated I lost 26 pp on that map. I think this is actually working as intended.Tanzklaue wrote:
I get pp drops since 3-4 consecutive days \o/
all of them happen when it is evening-night in germany.
Also some of your year long scores might have been fading out.