This. You shouldn't have to look for mistakes and imperfections. If there's a problem, you will most likely see and will tell the mapper. This feels like a fight for kudosu, which it shouldn't be.Ryuukun wrote:
Its like some people are searching for at least 1 little mistake to get a Kudo.Metroid wrote:
Nazi modding is best for when the map has no major errors, when it's bubbled, and when the mapper is a veteran one.
I enjoy naziing. (EDIT: I mean, I enjoy being nazi'd. I mean ... I enjoy people naziing my maps.) Remember that you don't have to take every suggestion. At least go through and see if each nazi makes sense and could affect gameplay or appearance.eee wrote:
Also, this doesn't stop me from naz-eeemodding, probably nazi modding, but not naz-eeemodding,
my best advice is JUST DON'T DO IT, I've skipped tons of nazi modz, no need to complain. who wants to listen to a nazi, right?
Was that the post from me?Otium wrote:
after reciving my first nazi-modding post[/size]
I agree that many short repeating sliders are horrible. Not many in ranked maps, but they're there. I disagree with all sliders because some longer (two or more beats, sometimes one and a half beats)) repeating sliders are effective. My main issue with repeats, though, is that some are too long and some are too short in total length. This isn't as much of a problem if only a break follows, but it's annoying in faster maps like that Yu-Gi-Oh mix one where you don't know when they end.lukewarmholiday wrote:
Only things I think people should nazi to death are repeating sliders which almost everyone can agree when used improperly can seriously mess up the flow of a map. Of course the irritability of repeating sliders varies immensely on how they are used, how well they fit the rythm, IF THEY END IN THE DIRECTION THAT YOUR MIND THINKS THEY WILL END. Some mappers still try to have a slider repeat 3 times for one section then 4 times out of the blue for another section.
That's what I do mostly. If I notice spacing issues (with patterns, etc.) or timing issues (e.g. with slider starts) in the editor I usually point that out, too. Also, I sometimes save replays so I can go back and see my mistakes and not have to remember everything.lukewarmholiday wrote:
Honestly here's how you should mod.
Open up the map in play(or test if you're a bad player) and play through it, take note of anything that breaks your combo or flow, point it out.
Bam, a modded map.
I'm a combo nazi myself. I may close attention to combos greater than 8 or 12 notes (depending on the song). I also look out for single-note combos and make sure they make sense. (Creativity counts as sense; a mistake doesn't.)James wrote:
To those who mod with combocolors instead of 1-grid shit:
Please take a look at the pattern of the map first?
They might not follow the vocals...
They might follow the symmetrical patterns of the map layout...
They may intentionally not following the time signature(?) because
...Basically its the same as 1-grid shit.
Actually, I also consider whenever a certain combo drains too much from the life bar, yet the HP drain rate seems to be okay on most parts. If a combo spans for more than five seconds, I might ask for him to change his patterns or just reassemble the combo markings.Echo wrote:
Combo colours
Only point this out when the map gets into double digits too frequently. Otherwise you're wasting your time.
K, that's what I meant myself, but it didn't seem you meant that from your post.James wrote:
yes, its OK to combo mod. i didnt say its wrong, but try to look at the pattern/symmetry of the map first.strager wrote:
blablabla
they might be following the bgm and you keep on enforcing to use a new combo because you thought they are following the vocals...
... which is completely wrong.
and some people might add more combocolors because the map's drain rate is too high and they DONT want to change it.
some people also wants to KEEP their combos less than 10/12... forcing them to add combos > than 12 is a no no. especially for bats who doesnt want to bubble/star a map because the mapper doesnt want to change such trivial things like this.
I take this as a personal attack.James wrote:
you might be a nazi mod but im sure i'm far better than you when it comes to modding.
you nazi and i use my brain. (no offence)
Algorithmically the HP drain caters to the whole song and the hitcircle/slider patterns, but I'm talking about extreme cases where the HP goes dangerously low in certain parts. A classic example of this would be the original Airman map where with the new updates, the life bar gets drained out on the part where you'll probably think a break should be in (AKA that instrumental part).Echo wrote:
That's impossible because peppy's hp drain algorithm takes that into account.vytalibus wrote:
Actually, I also consider whenever a certain combo drains too much from the life bar,
I still think of that as naz-eeemodding, anything that has to do with design issues and hitcircles (nothing to do with timing) is a nazi mod.Rolled wrote:
Any nazi-mod alterations that do not involve symmetry is wrong.
Whenever I mod combo numbers, it's generally to make things make more sense. If the song itself is accented a certain way and if a mapper has mapped along those accents, then one certain numbering will make more sense and be better than random numbering.James wrote:
To those who mod with combocolors instead of 1-grid shit:
Please take a look at the pattern of the map first?
They might not follow the vocals...
They might follow the symmetrical patterns of the map layout...
They may intentionally not following the time signature(?) because
...Basically its the same as 1-grid shit.
^This I agree completelyMogsworth wrote:
Generally, when I nazimod, I DO look at what the mapper is going for and merely attempt to help them polish it. Pointing out blatant errors is also part of this. However, I need to call something out:Whenever I mod combo numbers, it's generally to make things make more sense. If the song itself is accented a certain way and if a mapper has mapped along those accents, then one certain numbering will make more sense and be better than random numbering.James wrote:
To those who mod with combocolors instead of 1-grid shit:
Please take a look at the pattern of the map first?
They might not follow the vocals...
They might follow the symmetrical patterns of the map layout...
They may intentionally not following the time signature(?) because
...Basically its the same as 1-grid shit.
I've gotten better since back in the day with this sort of thing, it's merely a point of doing this:
A) Following the song's style.
B) Following the style of the map.
C) Analyzing the accents and patterns of the map.
D) Finding which numbering helps make the map flow more smoothly.
...all of this at the same time.
Like you said in your other post, there's nothing wrong with combo number modding, but like people have said in the past, it needs to make sense.
As far as the acceptability of nazi-modding: don't look for just things to change, for crying out loud. The level I personally mod at is incredibly perfectionist, but I don't look for problems like crazy, I just point out exactly what I notice. If I think that people are picking at straws for things to change, then I will deny them kudosu. If the nazi-mod post is actually helpful, then they get it.
Does it matter he's someone with an opinion adding to the discussion, you don't need you use such harsh language just because you don't know someone.Rolled wrote:
who the fuck is this guy
lrn2sarcasmrust45 wrote:
Does it matter he's someone with an opinion adding to the discussion, you don't need you use such harsh language just because you don't know someone.Rolled wrote:
who the fuck is this guy
Saturos wrote:
inb4failisnoted, oh wait.Derekku Chan wrote:
lrn2sarcasmrust45 wrote:
Does it matter he's someone with an opinion adding to the discussion, you don't need you use such harsh language just because you don't know someone.Rolled wrote:
who the fuck is this guy
It's for the kd. Yes, I myself am sometimes greedy. I'm sure everyone has greed in them somewhere and may "use" it to nazi mod some time. If you have a problem with that, don't give the kd's or ask a BAT to remove kd's. (Hopefully the BAT will have good judgment and perhaps deny your request to deny.)EEeee wrote:
but for anyone who has to, HAS TO, find something wrong with a perfect map,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, DAMN
I meant to say pure naziing, as in checking every single note to make sure it's snapped and things like that. I understand and agree with your position, and am not saying that type of naziing is intolerable or just for kd's.Mogsworth wrote:
Not all nazimodding is done for kudosu. Like I stated before, I nazimod out of tough love. I won't nazi a map if there's nothing else I can do to make it better within an individual's style.
Doing the former is stupid. I end up only polishing things that stick out (since no map is perfect, but I don't go looking for the individual imperfection, anyone who does that should stop right now and get smacked).Echo wrote:
Instead of trying to find something wrong with a perfect map to get kd (which I would definitely not give btw), go find an unmodded map and get definite kd for modding that!
Same. Not many people go to the Help/WIP section from what I see, and that will surely get you kd's (especially older posts which give you two kd's =]).Mogsworth wrote:
Doing the former is stupid. I end up only polishing things that stick out (since no map is perfect, but I don't go looking for the individual imperfection, anyone who does that should stop right now and get smacked).Echo wrote:
Instead of trying to find something wrong with a perfect map to get kd (which I would definitely not give btw), go find an unmodded map and get definite kd for modding that!
Also, I second the latter.
I wouldn't either, since those are things that might noticeably improve a map. You can actually spot them while playing.Doomsday93 wrote:
i don't consider stuff like "New Combo" or "Whistle Here" to be nazi modding but thats just me.
Yes.Card N'FoRcE wrote:
So, if a map has lots of 1-2 square grid inconsistancies, just tell the author about it and report just some examples.
IMHO the best way to make him understand how to make a map look better is to make the author fix these kind of things by himself because he will become self-aware of its mistakes.
How did everyone miss this?eee wrote:
I still think of that as naz-eeemodding, anything that has to do with design issues and hitcircles (nothing to do with timing) is a nazi mod.
The main reason I did not bother mentioning #mod is because very few new mappers or modders know about #mod. Most ppl do know about channels besides #osu unless they actually explore a bit.strager wrote:
@blissfulyoshi, No offsense, but that post was a little off-topic.
Also, I have to disagree with you a bit. Not even a fifth of the maps in Help/WIP are by pro mappers or are near rankability. New modders can take requests in #mod. This is useful because (a) the mapper (probably) cares about their map, (b) the modder and mapper can speak live if the modder has any questions, and (c) most requests in #mod are so the mapper gets mods, not stars or a BAT.
Me ^^blissfulyoshi wrote:
The only problem I have with creative requirement is who is the judge.
There is always something about a map that can be done better. Even a beginner can make comments like Echo's "this doesn't flow very well," even if they can't spot specifics.blissfulyoshi wrote:
If a newer modder mods a known mapper's beatmap, it is as almost as hard to find a mistake in these beatmaps as a beatmap that was well modded already.
Big square grids are bleh. But some 180s (when there's no overlap) can make clever traps, eg. (1) (3) (2), in a straight line with proper spacing.Echo wrote:
For example, I cringe every time I see a map where each beat makes a 0, 90 or 180 degree angle with the last beat (fully spaced, of course >.>)
Sounds like an SFG mod.LuigiHann wrote:
I just got nazi-modded. Every item in the list began "align with..."
I feel violated
I always counter with "no, that breaks symmetry with X," or "that causes overlap."i do NOT mod like that anymore, unless the alignment failure noticably disrupts the mapMetalMario201 wrote:
Sounds like an SFG mod.LuigiHann wrote:
I just got nazi-modded. Every item in the list began "align with..."
I feel violated
Honestly, that would probably be an okay thingStarrodkirby86 wrote:
*anticipates to see a lot of Pending Beatmaps go down the drain if such policy is enforced*Echo wrote:
Actually, that just led to an idea. How about we add a "creativity" requirement for ranked maps? *prepares to get flamed*
Tidy, even sliders and patterns can certainly have a better effect on the feel of the map, as they make it feel more stable. Even chaotic patterns can still be tidy and solid, because angular structure that looks tight lends a satisfying edge to a map. A bit of thought towards the presentation of a map can make it stand out and make it look like the mapper really knows what they're doing.Mr Color wrote:
I always feel like nazi-modding sliders until the mapper makes them look nice. I know it's entirely pointless and it's just something that bugs me and shouldn't, but I spend too much time on it either way. I can't enjoy a map if I can't enjoy how it looks, to me it makes part of the flow.
Thankfully I very rarely mod, because I keep pointing things like that out but I don't think it's nazi-modding but rather map-polishing. You're turning into what looks like a rough draft to a final state. At least that's how I feel about the whole situation. So if it is nazi-modding then, well, to me it is useful, perhaps even necessary.
I know exactly what you mean. Quite a few of my recent modposts include slider fixes because they're not symmetrical, blankets can be made better, etc. Since that's the intention anyway, why not make it as good as possible?Mr Color wrote:
I always feel like nazi-modding sliders until the mapper makes them look nice.
Exactly. My approach to presentation in a map is based on how much it looks like it's trying to be fancy. If the mapper's making half-hearted blankets and big sliders which are supposed to look pretty, then the map's ugliness becomes painfully obvious. Even so, sometimes, if something looks a tiny bit off, making it absolutely perfect can be much more trouble than it's worth. When it boils down to taking everything out of grid snap, there's only so much that a mapper should have to put up with.those wrote:
I know exactly what you mean. Quite a few of my recent modposts include slider fixes because they're not symmetrical, blankets can be made better, etc. Since that's the intention anyway, why not make it as good as possible?Mr Color wrote:
I always feel like nazi-modding sliders until the mapper makes them look nice.
says the guy who modded 100 maps in just a few days.Philippines wrote:
Some nazi mods are useful too imo.
This is mainly referring to the trend back then of people going, "This spacing is 1-grid off!" in an effort to get very easy kudosu. If it's for aesthetics then it's fine, but back then kudosu-whoring in this fashion was a real problem. Then again, that was back then, not now, but eh.Miya wrote:
I do some nazi mod too sometimes. I care about map aesthetic. If i found some pattern that's awkward because maybe it's mapper mistake, i will mention nazi mod. If we mention the reason nicely, i think people can understand and accept nazi mod too.
Nah that's still a problem today.Ekaru wrote:
kudosu-whoring in this fashion was a real problem. Then again, that was back then, not now, but eh.
I'm talking about an era where, like, one in every 4 or so mod posts looked like this:Charles445 wrote:
Nah that's still a problem today.Ekaru wrote:
kudosu-whoring in this fashion was a real problem. Then again, that was back then, not now, but eh.
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