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Newbie Mafia 2! [Mafia Win!]
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Can you explain (in detail) how adam voting for you made you convince yourself that adam is townie?
Sure.Echo wrote:
Can you explain (in detail) how adam voting for you made you convince yourself that adam is townie?
This is obviously a random vote, but it has a reason for it. That reason is, of course, nonsense, and he's trying to defend his Mafia buddy.adam2046 wrote:
Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.
But if that last bit were true, he wouldn't state that as a reason, would he? That'd be a pretty bad slip, and I know adam's not stupid.
But assuming he did make a mistake in saying that, you will notice how adam continues to focus on me but without much claim still:
Either he is an experienced player trying to trick me into thinking he doesn't know what he's doing, he's hiding something (e.g. he is a Mafia and if he can seem to focus his attention on me and away from him all the better), or he's just sticking to me because he wants to accuse me at random, as I am an easy target for anyone at this point.adam2046 wrote:
I have only found strager suspicious and more suspicious.
I vote Stra-oh I already did that ^_^
If I were to be lynched because Echo is a Mafia (back to the first quote, where I suggest adam is defending his Mafia buddy) (also, I'm not accusing you here, just hypothetically) that'd be great because then the Doctor is killed and the Mafia get a free kill off anyone else. (Of course I would try using my ability to protect who I think is the most likely to be killed by the
Mafia.)
If I were to be lynched because adam believes I am a Mafia because I voted so early... I don't know what to say to that. I don't have the experience to say if early voting is a good idea, a bad idea, and if it's good or bad to vote for an early voter (etc. etc.).
If I were to be lynched because adam starts a trend (as he seems to be doing now) ... Well I'm sure you can guess the outcome (a lynched soul).
----------
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
For now I'll still say adam is on the town's side, though, out of gut feeling. By reasoning, though, adam seems to be a larger target as a Mafia.
(I'm too tired to proofread this so sorry for any mistakes.)
I have only played 2 of these games in my entire life.
I'm not voting you because you voted early, I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...That's why I was going to vote twice, I didn't actually realise I had voted on you.
I'm not voting you because you voted early, I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...That's why I was going to vote twice, I didn't actually realise I had voted on you.
I've played...adam2046 wrote:
I have only played 2 of these games in my entire life.
None.
=X
Okay. I understand the reasoning behind your second post.adam2046 wrote:
I'm not voting you because you voted early, I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...That's why I was going to vote twice, I didn't actually realise I had voted on you.
How do you explain the first post, though? Just a random vote?
This.Echo wrote:
The first two votes are called random votes. It's what you do at the start of the game. The vote for nardi was clearly indicated to be a temporary vote in order to get him to talk.derekku wrote:
0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.
Hold on a sec. You are claiming to be the doctor, yet you don't know why I'm not voting for you? I already said I believe you...strager wrote:
I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.
As for Echo, he is under my radar, but this is just how he plays: he pressures people to see if they slip. And if you step up with a role claim like that at the very beginning, you can bet that Echo is gonna be all over it. And so far you aren't doing a great job of protecting yourself
So yes, I have a different opinion than Echo, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna vote for him. Personally I'd rather wait a day and see what happens; some of your posts have been a little strange (hereby suspicious) but the fact that you might be (and probably are) the doctor is keeping me from voting for you.
Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:
If you followed any of the previous mafia/warewolf games, Echo got killed first or second day almost every game, so that's what he's referring toadam2046 wrote:
Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.
EDIT: randomly forgot a word :3
Yes I say in that post.
adam2046 wrote:
I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...
D'oh, didn't consider this. I was just commenting on what Derekku wrote and really thinking. Sorry to put any wrong on you. =X0_o wrote:
Hold on a sec. You are claiming to be the doctor, yet you don't know why I'm not voting for you? I already said I believe you...strager wrote:
I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.
Oh.adam2046 wrote:
Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:If you followed any of the previous mafia/warewolf games, Echo got killed first or second day almost every game, so that's what he's referring toadam2046 wrote:
Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.
xD
Okay I'm starting to miss words so I think I'll go to sleep now.adam2046 wrote:
Yes I say in that post.adam2046 wrote:
I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...
x_x
You're also starting to quote wrong.
strager wrote:
adam2046 wrote:
Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:
It's annoying that 90% of the posts in mafia/ww game threads are made when I'm either asleep or at school. Anyway, I vote strager as he seems the most suspicious to me and this game is confusing as hell compared to WWG.
But there's only 9 pages so far...
He can't take part in these wonderful conversations though.
Gah come on guys, he may be acting a little oddly, but keep in mind this is his first game, and Echo's been at him the whole time, can you really blame him for stumbling a bit?
That said, please don't be a mafia strager, if you get lynched tonight and you are, I have a feeling there will be shifty eyes pointed my way tomorrow
Gah come on guys, he may be acting a little oddly, but keep in mind this is his first game, and Echo's been at him the whole time, can you really blame him for stumbling a bit?
That said, please don't be a mafia strager, if you get lynched tonight and you are, I have a feeling there will be shifty eyes pointed my way tomorrow
strager: please explain to me how this doesn't look fishy.
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed. The real doctor wouldn't have wanted to expose himself - he'd die night 1 and the whole town would be in a bit of trouble.
None of adam's posts in any way indicate that he is townie, and no one should be able to confirm this. Yet strager claims to believe, and has managed to convince himself, that adam is townie. I suspect this is because strager is mafia and knows that adam is townie.
strager's explanation doesn't really fly either. He focusses on adam's random votes extensively, trying to impart meaning to them. Then, he goes into a whole heap of "if"s, none of which mean anything, due to WIFOM thinking. The only arguments that carry any weight are arguments backed with evidence.
Finally, the coup de grâce (in the same post):
If anything, that final backing out solidifies my argument. Good luck convincing me that you're not mafia. You don't have much time, nardi put you on L-1.
edit:
note to everyone: I've probably made just as many posts as strager has. If I can pick holes in strager's arguments and claims, then any lies, inconsistencies or logical fallacies I've made should also be just as evident. I encourage you to through and confirm or deny, for yourself, the authenticity of my train of thought.
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed. The real doctor wouldn't have wanted to expose himself - he'd die night 1 and the whole town would be in a bit of trouble.
Later, strager confirms that he convinced himself adam is townie after I pointed out a contradiction in his posts (bold added my me):strager wrote:
D= I didn't mean to.Echo wrote:
But if you weren't the doctor, you wouldn't care.
dammit WHY do the doctors always need to expose themselves on the first day?
But at this point, adam had only made 4 posts, two of which (here and here) were trash posts directed at strager and kuwarudo respectively, while his first post was a random vote and his latest post at this point was this one:strager wrote:
I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.Echo wrote:
strager wrote:
So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.Read that and tell me you never said you weren't convinced. You were absolutely totally completely convinced in the first quote that adam is not mafia.strager wrote:
I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia.
This post is either suspicious because adam made a vote with no evidence, or could be counted as a random early vote post.adam2046 wrote:
I have only found strager suspicious and more suspicious.
I vote Stra-oh I already did that ^_^
None of adam's posts in any way indicate that he is townie, and no one should be able to confirm this. Yet strager claims to believe, and has managed to convince himself, that adam is townie. I suspect this is because strager is mafia and knows that adam is townie.
strager's explanation doesn't really fly either. He focusses on adam's random votes extensively, trying to impart meaning to them. Then, he goes into a whole heap of "if"s, none of which mean anything, due to WIFOM thinking. The only arguments that carry any weight are arguments backed with evidence.
Finally, the coup de grâce (in the same post):
Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
If anything, that final backing out solidifies my argument. Good luck convincing me that you're not mafia. You don't have much time, nardi put you on L-1.
edit:
note to everyone: I've probably made just as many posts as strager has. If I can pick holes in strager's arguments and claims, then any lies, inconsistencies or logical fallacies I've made should also be just as evident. I encourage you to through and confirm or deny, for yourself, the authenticity of my train of thought.
Umm, I'll try...
le'see, I could be mafia and strager could be saying I'm definitley human because we are both mafia together?
That's about the only thing I feel like picking at.
le'see, I could be mafia and strager could be saying I'm definitley human because we are both mafia together?
That's about the only thing I feel like picking at.
He has a point, maybe we should lynch him tomorrow!adam2046 wrote:
Umm, I'll try...
le'see, I could be mafia and strager could be saying I'm definitley human because we are both mafia together?
That's about the only thing I feel like picking at.
Yeah let-wait me?
Echo's post makes logical points, but I still feel that a lot of his mafia "tells" are simply beginner slip-ups.
If during your first ever game you get persistently grilled throughout the entire day by an aggressive player like Echo, I don't care if you are human or mafia, you're gonna say something that draws suspicion. Honestly, I think the reason he draws the most suspicion is because Echo has made him the focus of attention all day; no one else has really had the chance to draw attention to themselves.
Bleh, I gotta go now, but just remember, he's a new player who doesn't know the ins and outs of this game. I don't think I can say any more, it's in all of your hands now. If you decide to lynch him, you better be confident in the fact that he isn't the doctor, because if he is, this game will be off to a very bad start.
EDIT: also
Unvote nardi
Vote adam
To someone with not a lot of experience I believe this would seem like a perfectly legitimate argument; the mafia wouldn't vote to lynch someone who they were going to kill at night anyway. Again, being a new player, he wouldn't get the idea of random voting and would attempt to analyze every action that is made, regardless of how small.strager wrote:
Indeed, which makes adam somewhat suspect because he is voting for me. Then again, if he were the Mafia, he'd kill me anyway. So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.
Well he says right there in the quote that he backed out because of your arguments, and while you may take that as being wishy-washy, I think it's just as reasonable to say that he changed his mind because your arguments convinced him that adam might not be as innocent as he thought.Echo wrote:
Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
If during your first ever game you get persistently grilled throughout the entire day by an aggressive player like Echo, I don't care if you are human or mafia, you're gonna say something that draws suspicion. Honestly, I think the reason he draws the most suspicion is because Echo has made him the focus of attention all day; no one else has really had the chance to draw attention to themselves.
Bleh, I gotta go now, but just remember, he's a new player who doesn't know the ins and outs of this game. I don't think I can say any more, it's in all of your hands now. If you decide to lynch him, you better be confident in the fact that he isn't the doctor, because if he is, this game will be off to a very bad start.
EDIT: also
Unvote nardi
Vote adam
Oops, I meant to put 0_o as the author of that. Sorry. >_< I was tired.adam2046 wrote:
You're also starting to quote wrong.strager wrote:
adam2046 wrote:
Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:
I basically said I changed my mind. I myself realized that such random voting brings about some if's which cannot be backed or anything. However, his persistence in his vote made me confused, making me think he was a "Townie." Now I think he may be a Mafia but I want to stick with my unbased believe that adam is not a Mafia.Echo wrote:
Finally, the coup de grâce (in the same post):Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
If anything, that final backing out solidifies my argument.
----------
Thanks for the defense, 0_o, but I fear that's making me look more suspicious (and you too) because it's almost as if you're defending me by being my buddy.
When I have time I'll look over all these posts and see if I have missed anything which could hopefully point the finger elsewhere. =X
EDIT: Add [spoiler] for consistency.
It is ^_^
Nice subtle way of telling your buddy not to look like your buddy~
Nice subtle way of telling your buddy not to look like your buddy~
I defending you because I don't want to risk killing the doctor -_- if i didn't think you were the doctor, trust me, you wouldn't be here right now
Well, if you insist.Echo wrote:
edit:
note to everyone: I've probably made just as many posts as strager has. If I can pick holes in strager's arguments and claims, then any lies, inconsistencies or logical fallacies I've made should also be just as evident. I encourage you to through and confirm or deny, for yourself, the authenticity of my train of thought.
I've never heard of this rule. Furthermore, I feel as though you're putting words in his mouth. He never claimed to be the cop, and you were the first person who said he was the doc.Echo wrote:
So now you're admitting cop? General rule: first to mention cop in any way is cop themselves.
I was going to vote you now, but since you're suggesting you're cop now, I'll let you defend yourself first.
Also, I'd like to point out.
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139874#p139874Echo wrote:
First, you claim an important role.
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139897#p139897Echo wrote:
Firstly, strager never claimed doctor.
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=140180#p140180Echo wrote:
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed.
Thus, I repeat
BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
However, I don't want to give the wrong idea. I agree with most of the things you've said about strager(one disagreement is that when he gives up, you think that's more scummy while I think it doesn't show anything but fatigue while another is that I'd like to give him more credit than doubt for backing off his claim that he should consider adam town for the day rather than have him continue pushing that adam is still town). But everything else looks right on the money.
I'd also like to add
That statement both implies that you were not defending yourself and states that you have a defense.strager wrote:
Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.
Oh, and Derekuu-Chan, this is a summery, not a suspicion list. However, I feel that I should apologize. I forgot that sarcasm can't be conveyed over the internets.
When I said before
It was in response toBagelBob wrote:
I Vote Kuu for lying! This is NO wolf game!
Where I meant to show that kuu was lying about being in the game. Trying to stay low on the radar or just being kuu? I'll never know.kuu wrote:
I FORGOT AM I INVITED HERE---OH RIGHT IT'S THE WOLF GAME IM NOT IN.
And any parodies I do are for my own amusement. If they should happen to point out a newbie mistake that could be a scum-tell, so be it.
viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
When I say he "claimed" doctor, I was referring to this incident in the post above. I merely suggested he was doctor, and he "claimed" it by saying he "didn't mean to". As (I think) I've pointed out before, strager didn't claim doctor explicitly, which is what I mean by him not "claiming" doctor.
Yeah that's what I meant. I seriously need to stop posting after midnight. My brain just doesn't work right.BagelBob wrote:
Oh, and Derekku-Chan, this is a summary, not a suspicion list. However, I feel that I should apologize. I forgot that sarcasm can't be conveyed over the internets.
Okay, I'm going through the entire thread and pointing out suspicious actions.
MONSTER POST but there's a lot to go over. It's probably disorganized because this text box is so small. >_<
Not gonna proof read either. x_x
Of course, as BagelBob points out, his believing that I am the Doctor has swayed:
So does Echo really believe I am the Doctor? That's for anyone to decide for themselves but I believe his indecisiveness means he doesn't believe I am the Doctor. Thus, the only reasonable option is that Echo is a Mafia.
----------
To support BagelBob's point about Echo's indecisiveness, I'll bring up another quote from Echo:
0_o seems to be very forgiving, and I'm not sure how to take this.
----------
Also, if you post about absolutely nothing you're more likely to know about absolutely nothing. On the other hand, if you post about a lot of things, you probably know more than other people do.
So it seems as if Echo's "FOS" (first something suspect???) is Derekku it's completely unbased, because I am pretty sure Echo knows what I just said in the previous paragraph. So either that "FOS" is a random "FOS" or just meant to point figures elsewhere than the Mafia.
Also:
----------
----------
I noticed something which could be very subtle and thus I am totally over-looking-into:
BagelBob on the other hand says that the strategy could work. He's supportive of the Town, but I don't think he really believes I am the Doctor. Either way, only those of the Town would truly support the Town, so he's probably of the Town ("Townie" is the correct terminology?).
----------
Echo seems to be super defensive of adam in hislatest next-to-latest post. Why? I'm not pointing my finger at him.
MONSTER POST but there's a lot to go over. It's probably disorganized because this text box is so small. >_<
Not gonna proof read either. x_x
The last comment about "strager can go on day 2" means Echo suspects either I am not the Doctor or he is a Mafia (or both, but I doubt that).Echo wrote:
ISeriously, forget what I said about not bringing personal issues into the game; vote Kuwarudo. strager can go on day 2.
Of course, as BagelBob points out, his believing that I am the Doctor has swayed:
Also here, it is clear Echo doesn't believe I am the Doctor:BagelBob wrote:
Also, I'd like to point out.http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139874#p139874Echo wrote:
First, you claim an important role.http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139897#p139897Echo wrote:
Firstly, strager never claimed doctor.http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=140180#p140180Echo wrote:
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed.
Thus, I repeatBagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
Another:Echo wrote:
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?Echo wrote:
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.
There is an exception, of course, when it's all planned out, but you can't talk behind the scenes in this game so you can't use someone else as a substitute and act through them to protect yourself.
Why would he twist my statement into a role claim for a Cop but not believe my role claim for a Doctor? I know you don't think I'm a Cop and you're trying to confuse us.Echo wrote:
So now you're admitting cop? General rule: first to mention cop in any way is cop themselves.strager wrote:
I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).
I was going to vote you now, but since you're suggesting you're cop now, I'll let you defend yourself first.
So does Echo really believe I am the Doctor? That's for anyone to decide for themselves but I believe his indecisiveness means he doesn't believe I am the Doctor. Thus, the only reasonable option is that Echo is a Mafia.
----------
To support BagelBob's point about Echo's indecisiveness, I'll bring up another quote from Echo:
Which contradicts:Echo wrote:
That's not a claim, it's a passing suggestion.
----------Echo wrote:
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed.
0_o seems to be very forgiving, and I'm not sure how to take this.
0_o wrote:
I don't really find nardi particularly suspicious, it's just that everyone else just seems innocent
0_o wrote:
as much as kuwarudo's posts can be annoying/pointless, I'm inclined to believe him in his villager claim, and I don't want to lynch a townie just so I don't have to skip over some useless posts. So (sorry) unvote Kuwarudo
0_o seems to stay away from the fray, even though he encourages it. He slips under the radar in most of his posts.0_o wrote:
I just don't have enough to go on to vote anyone right now, we need people to talk so we can get to know them and base decisions off of their arguments.
He doesn't state how he came to this conclusion and how he ruled out anyone as being pro-Town.0_o wrote:
ok, as of now the only 2 people i haven't "diagnosed" in my mind as pro-town is adam2046 and nardi.
----------
True, but 0_o has posted about absolutely nothing as well.Echo wrote:
derekku has posted about absolutely nothing. All the so-called votes he's pointing out as "suspicious" are random votes made at the start of the game.
Also, if you post about absolutely nothing you're more likely to know about absolutely nothing. On the other hand, if you post about a lot of things, you probably know more than other people do.
So it seems as if Echo's "FOS" (first something suspect???) is Derekku it's completely unbased, because I am pretty sure Echo knows what I just said in the previous paragraph. So either that "FOS" is a random "FOS" or just meant to point figures elsewhere than the Mafia.
Also:
I can't change my mind? If everything were set in stone this game wouldn't be fun. You may see I seem like a hypocrite because I mentioned Echo's indecisiveness, but this is different. Rather than jumping around some ideas like Echo has to try and put up a convincing argument, I stated that I changed my views because of a valid argument. How is my case wrong?Echo wrote:
Finally, the coup de grâce (in the same post):Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
----------
By the "defense" I meant Echo accusing me of using my role claim as a Doctor to defend myself. I didn't mean defending myself against his arguments.BagelBob wrote:
I'd also like to addThat statement both implies that you were not defending yourself and states that you have a defense.strager wrote:
Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.
----------
I noticed something which could be very subtle and thus I am totally over-looking-into:
And BagelBob's response:Echo wrote:
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?Echo wrote:
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.
Echo shows that a certain strategy won't work for the Town, and BagelBob says it does. Echo also probably doesn't believe I am the Doctor (see first part of this post), and thus thinks I am "drawing attention away from the real aux roles." He is thus stating a plan will fail, and tries to fail that plan. More reason to suspect Echo is a Mafia.BagelBob wrote:
Oh, and I have to disagree with you on that matter. A fake-claim by a town could work out nicely. I certainly don't think that's what's happening here, but I could see it working.
BagelBob on the other hand says that the strategy could work. He's supportive of the Town, but I don't think he really believes I am the Doctor. Either way, only those of the Town would truly support the Town, so he's probably of the Town ("Townie" is the correct terminology?).
----------
Echo seems to be super defensive of adam in his
I've explained why I've been mixing and matching "claim" and "didn't claim" here:
As for putting you on cop: I didn't (and still don't) believe you are doctor. Thus, since you so eagerly claimed doctor, when I don't think you are, your reluctance to mention anything to do with the cop after I suggested it makes me think there's something more to that.Echo wrote:
viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
When I say he "claimed" doctor, I was referring to this incident in the post above. I merely suggested he was doctor, and he "claimed" it by saying he "didn't mean to". As (I think) I've pointed out before, strager didn't claim doctor explicitly, which is what I mean by him not "claiming" doctor.
I don't believe you there.Echo wrote:
I've explained why I've been mixing and matching "claim" and "didn't claim" here:Echo wrote:
viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
When I say he "claimed" doctor, I was referring to this incident in the post above. I merely suggested he was doctor, and he "claimed" it by saying he "didn't mean to". As (I think) I've pointed out before, strager didn't claim doctor explicitly, which is what I mean by him not "claiming" doctor.
0_o already has for me:Echo wrote:
As for putting you on cop: I didn't (and still don't) believe you are doctor. Thus, since you so eagerly claimed doctor, when I don't think you are, your reluctance to mention anything to do with the cop after I suggested it makes me think there's something more to that.
If you want me to explain why I mentioned the Cop, here's why.0_o wrote:
And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??
The quote in question:
Why I mentioned the Cop is simple: he must exist assuming my conclusion on which roles are in the game is correct. Thus, I would use your knowledge that role-claiming is disadvantageous for a Town player, and advantageous for the Cop himself and a Mafia.strager wrote:
I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).Echo wrote:
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Echo write: Villagers don't lie about aux roles. (Nested quote limit, sorry.)
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?
There is an exception, of course, when it's all planned out, but you can't talk behind the scenes in this game so you can't use someone else as a substitute and act through them to protect yourself.
However, in my previous post I have stated that BagelBob believes claiming Doctor is a good idea, so this may apply to the Cop but I am not sure.
That is, I don't care much about the Cop now but I should/will be later in the game, especially when there is a role claim. (If the alleged Cop is lynched or killed by the Mafia we would know his role. If he weren't, and he wasn't the Cop (because the real Cop would probably come out), he'd be a Mafia. So, if he isn't lynched, I would protect him and if someone was killed by the Mafia it would be known the alleged Cop is a Mafia. If the Mafia did try and kill him he is likely really the Cop.)
strager wrote:
0_o seems to be very forgiving, and I'm not sure how to take this.Well (at the time I wrote this at least) there was simply no one who set off any warning bells in my mind.0_o wrote:
I don't really find nardi particularly suspicious, it's just that everyone else just seems innocentI voted for him because he was being annoying, saying he wanted to quit because he was a townie changed my mind; if he was threatening to quit (which he did) why would he lie?0_o wrote:
as much as kuwarudo's posts can be annoying/pointless, I'm inclined to believe him in his villager claim, and I don't want to lynch a townie just so I don't have to skip over some useless posts. So (sorry) unvote Kuwarudo0_o seems to stay away from the fray, even though he encourages it. He slips under the radar in most of his posts.0_o wrote:
I just don't have enough to go on to vote anyone right now, we need people to talk so we can get to know them and base decisions off of their arguments.
erm, what? Besides you and Echo I'm pretty sure I've contributed the most to this game out of the players so far. Though granted most of my posts have been on the topic of keeping you aroundHe doesn't state how he came to this conclusion and how he ruled out anyone as being pro-Town.0_o wrote:
ok, as of now the only 2 people i haven't "diagnosed" in my mind as pro-town is adam2046 and nardi.
"Diagnosed" was in quotations because it was mainly just my instincts/first impressions of the 2 or 3 posts each person (again, besides you and Echo) made so far. It definitely isn't "official", it's just those were the two people who when I read through made me go "mm, I dunno about this guy..."
Do you really think it's that hard to keep track of saying whether you claimed doctor or not, unless there was a reason behind mixing claim with not claim?strager wrote:
I don't believe you there.Echo wrote:
I've explained why I've been mixing and matching "claim" and "didn't claim" here:Echo wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263
When I say he "claimed" doctor, I was referring to this incident in the post above. I merely suggested he was doctor, and he "claimed" it by saying he "didn't mean to". As (I think) I've pointed out before, strager didn't claim doctor explicitly, which is what I mean by him not "claiming" doctor.
You're drawing conclusions from Suburu's pregame story now? Any one of the four combinations are possible. There is absolutely no way you can tell which combination is being used in the game. Don't even try to go there.strager wrote:
Why I mentioned the Cop is simple: he must exist assuming my conclusion on which roles are in the game is correct. Thus, I would use your knowledge that role-claiming is disadvantageous for a Town player, and advantageous for the Cop himself and a Mafia.
It's never good to role claim on the first day, when there's nothing you can do to prove or disprove the claim. And since you can't talk outside the thread, you can't use it to convince anyone anyway.strager wrote:
However, in my previous post I have stated that BagelBob believes claiming Doctor is a good idea, so this may apply to the Cop but I am not sure.
What strikes me the most is how you repeatedly confirm you know adam is innocent, then suddenly back out of that claim when I say it's impossible for you to know that. This is what makes me think with almost 100% certainty that you are mafia.
0_o, I see your points but still don't know what to think ultimately. I mean, you could be playing Mister Nice Guy to try and not get killed (this makes sense because many accuse me of being a Mafia and if that were true I would kill the person attacking me the most and certainly not the one defending me).
On my comment about you just watching the fray: I still stand by that view because you've only fed the discussion ("fire") and not jumped into it yourself. You'd jumping a little more now, which is good (or bad?), because we get more information and view points.
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What? O_o
Also, I do still believe (unfoundedly, like most beliefs ;P)adam is innocent, for what it's worth.
Oh, and let me try.
What strikes me the most is how you repeatedly confirm you know I am guilty, then suddenly back out of defending yourself against the attacks of my post earlier today when you yourself say a lack of defense means you are a Mafia. This (okay, not really this last sentence, because that's just BS) is what makes me know with 100% certainty that you are a Mafia.
My vote still stands against Echo.
(Yeah it was a bit longer and cooler but what can I say? I know this for a fact now.)
On my comment about you just watching the fray: I still stand by that view because you've only fed the discussion ("fire") and not jumped into it yourself. You'd jumping a little more now, which is good (or bad?), because we get more information and view points.
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Uh...Echo wrote:
Do you really think it's that hard to keep track of saying whether you claimed doctor or not, unless there was a reason behind mixing claim with not claim?
What? O_o
I was explaining that my mention of a Cop was NOT a role claim and I was assuming my prediction near the beginning of the game was correct for this reason, and only this reason.Echo wrote:
You're drawing conclusions from Suburu's pregame story now? Any one of the four combinations are possible. There is absolutely no way you can tell which combination is being used in the game. Don't even try to go there.strager wrote:
Why I mentioned the Cop is simple: he must exist assuming my conclusion on which roles are in the game is correct. Thus, I would use your knowledge that role-claiming is disadvantageous for a Town player, and advantageous for the Cop himself and a Mafia.
It was not a "sudden" backing out. You mentioned something which "foiled my plans" and I explained that it did "foil my plans." Accepting your argument causes more suspicion?Echo wrote:
What strikes me the most is how you repeatedly confirm you know adam is innocent, then suddenly back out of that claim when I say it's impossible for you to know that. This is what makes me think with almost 100% certainty that you are mafia.
Also, I do still believe (unfoundedly, like most beliefs ;P)adam is innocent, for what it's worth.
Oh, and let me try.
What strikes me the most is how you repeatedly confirm you know I am guilty, then suddenly back out of defending yourself against the attacks of my post earlier today when you yourself say a lack of defense means you are a Mafia. This (okay, not really this last sentence, because that's just BS) is what makes me know with 100% certainty that you are a Mafia.
My vote still stands against Echo.
(Yeah it was a bit longer and cooler but what can I say? I know this for a fact now.)
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Topic Starter
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Hey hey Echo!
I didn't vote for you ^_^
I didn't vote for you ^_^
So I'm throwing things at strager.
But don't just sit back, say, and I quote, I "need to stop being so fucking aggresive. strager has never even played before, and you're throwing every fucking thing in the book at him."
THEN THROW THINGS AT ME. BUT BE DAMN SURE YOU BACK IT UP WITH QUOTES FROM THIS THREAD.
LIKE I DID. LIKE STRAGER DID. LIKE 0_o DID. LIKE BAGEL DID. He's enjoying the game. I'm enjoying the game. We're all enjoying the game. If you're not, get out.
But don't just sit back, say, and I quote, I "need to stop being so fucking aggresive. strager has never even played before, and you're throwing every fucking thing in the book at him."
THEN THROW THINGS AT ME. BUT BE DAMN SURE YOU BACK IT UP WITH QUOTES FROM THIS THREAD.
LIKE I DID. LIKE STRAGER DID. LIKE 0_o DID. LIKE BAGEL DID. He's enjoying the game. I'm enjoying the game. We're all enjoying the game. If you're not, get out.
Saying that strager is new is an awful point, if you want go take a quick peek at my first mafia game...no I'll wait.
See?
Saying someone is new to the game isn't a very good excuse if they're capable of being smart.
See?
Saying someone is new to the game isn't a very good excuse if they're capable of being smart.
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I made a mistake.Echo wrote:
So I'm throwing things at strager.
But don't just sit back, say, and I quote, I "need to stop being so fucking aggresive. strager has never even played before, and you're throwing every fucking thing in the book at him."
THEN THROW THINGS AT ME. BUT BE DAMN SURE YOU BACK IT UP WITH QUOTES FROM THIS THREAD.
LIKE I DID. LIKE STRAGER DID. LIKE 0_o DID. LIKE BAGEL DID. He's enjoying the game. I'm enjoying the game. We're all enjoying the game. If you're not, get out.
I am enjoying the game.
Again, sorry for saying that to you. I was comparing you to everyone else for the wrong reason.
I'll go back through the thread tomorrow and look at everyone's points again.
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