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What happened to rank/app mapsets?

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Lesjuh
Elite Mapper
2,442 posts
Joined October 2008
Topic Starter
Lesjuh

Shinde wrote:

sob story
The point I'm trying to make is that maps like yours will only attract more people to create short approval maps. The purpose of the approval section has always been for marathons/high score maps/gimmicky maps and your map doesn't belong in that category. You can tell us all about how you need almost a year to create a normal mapset for a 3 minute song :/ Ofcourse I think freedom and fun is important but what's the purpose of the approval category now? Something needs to change. Until then I'll be making 3 minute single diff maps (meh jk lol)

Let's just get rid of the whole approved section, solves this problem too \:D/
Neruell
408 posts
Joined May 2009
Neruell

Zelos wrote:

Why not just remove approval all together and make everything go for ranking.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
No need to repeat it, as peppy said in that thread that was his intention, i just hope it could happen sooner rather than later
Metro
692 posts
Joined April 2010
Metro
I repeat it because I'm stating my opinion.

Stop deleting my posts.

Neruell wrote:

Zelos wrote:

Why not just remove approval all together and make everything go for ranking.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Stop posting for the sake of increasing your post count then
Metro
692 posts
Joined April 2010
Metro
I won't stop posting because of your stupid thinking.
Shinde
osu! Alumni
707 posts
Joined April 2009
Shinde

Lesjuh wrote:

herp derp nice summary
You sure missed a lot of points that I don't feel like reiterating. Also your+Gladi's map doesn't belong in ranked when going by the rules. Good job. Don't try to argue common sense either. Rules are pretty serious business and definitely black and white.

I agree, let's get rid of approval. \:D/
Mismagius
9,239 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

Shinde wrote:

Also your+Gladi's map doesn't belong in ranked when going by the rules. Good job. Don't try to argue common sense either.
Except this is the reason he's trying to convince the BATs to merge Ranking and Approval?
Shinde
osu! Alumni
707 posts
Joined April 2009
Shinde
Well I do wish that good luck, since that's going to take a lot of effort. Having a large group of people agree on a middle ground when it comes to sticky issues has never gone smoothly in the past. That's been evidenced many times as-is. But osu! could always use less things for people to argue over.

My point with lesjuh was the hypocrisy of saying my map doesn't belong in App. when Tijd doesn't belong in Ranked by those standards. Until those standards and approval are dissolved, I don't see any error in either Tijd or my map.

I would support merge of App and ranked if it were presented in a reasonable fashion.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Metro wrote:

I won't stop posting because of your stupid thinking.
that's the easiest way to get banned other than posting CP, ddos, or cheating on a crapload of really hard songs.
Natteke
6,538 posts
Joined August 2009
Natteke
If you remove approval category, will I have to map 3-4 diffs for, say, a 10 minute marathon? It takes a lot of time to map just one dif for such a long song. Don't even try to reply with "Don't map songs like that".
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
The implications were that there would still be approval-like maps (extremely long maps, pretty much - you can map easier for shorter songs regardless of how bullshitstreamshit of a 40,000,000 score Extra-Another diff you have on a 3:00 song) that might not follow the same rules as the rest of the ranked maps in a ranking process. Special Ranked, maybe?
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

Natteke wrote:

If you remove approval category, will I have to map 3-4 diffs for, say, a 10 minute marathon?
I don't see a problem with doing 3 difficulties on a 10 minute song. Marathon songs just take more time. No big deal.
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Soaprman
You just have to be willing to finish it and find people willing to mod it. Yep.
zeroclover
468 posts
Joined December 2010
zeroclover
everything is under BATs rules now
osu = BATs game then...

it was right ppl in game complain abt rank and approved map when it was going weird
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Well, ultrainsane map can give high score, but they're a challenge anyway. So they're an example of what can go into "Ranked" maps.
Differently, maps that give an ultrahigh score in a relatively easy manner, they should go into Approved too with particular maps (with things that aren't so rankable or so, including the gimmick maps like ziin DJ Max style or Jubeat)
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
This whole fucking thread is bullshit. Let's get rid of approval? Well, let's just get rid of the whole damn game then. If scoring metrics doesn't matter anymore, then why should it matter how many maps are in a set?

If I want one diff set for a hard map that is meant to give a challenge, that is what I'm going to do. Getting rid of approval isn't going to force rules of approval, it just means the marathon maps are just going to add score based on a per-map basis (I.E Top 40), and on a monthly chart. This thread will solve nothing. Instead of bitching and whining (even more so the fact that the bitcher and whiner here did something that breaks the rules far more than these!), why don't you reivew the maps you questioned, since they fit the "CURRENT STANDARDS. Just because some of you can no-life the game and thus have far more skill than the average player doesn't mean the maps in question are easy. Some of you are veteran players, keep in question the rest of the people that play this game, rather than yourself and your groups of friends.

All you're doing now is just blowing hot air since you're upset that your maps don't get ranked as fast as others. So you just try to justify your complaints and in the process, you're doing far more evil than good.

P.S - Gimmick maps aren't meant to be approved, silly jackasses.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
I agree with ztrot - the rules we have compromised with already give tremendous edge to the higher tier players who are arguably the ones catered for the most by mappers. I think out of all the people entitled to complain about the rules and regulations, good players are not a part of that.

What we should be doing is focusing less on this extremely vocal minority and instead tinkering with some ideas to get mappers proactively creating good easy/normal/hard difficulties instead of them being additions to an otherwise extremely difficult insane map.

Removing approval changes nothing. Approval has always been centered on score limit to preserve what pathetic fragments of tangible score metric that we have left. You would think that people who are well versed in said metric would wholeheartedly understand the need to cap the number of maps with extremely high scores in order to keep it some semblance of competitive.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

Ephemeral wrote:

You would think that people who are well versed in said metric would wholeheartedly understand the need to cap the number of maps with extremely high scores in order to keep it some semblance of competitive.
I don't understand the reasoning here in terms of "competitive" - competitive is based on individual map basis, isn't it? Has nothing to do with an absurdly high score on a map since they're all relative. Surely nobody around here still believes that Total Ranked Score is a viable metric for one's skill? It hasn't been for years.
mochi
779 posts
Joined June 2010
mochi
When did this thread become a discussion about skill level and extremely difficult maps...?
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Ephemeral wrote:

What we should be doing is focusing less on this extremely vocal minority and instead tinkering with some ideas to get mappers proactively creating good easy/normal/hard difficulties instead of them being additions to an otherwise extremely difficult insane map.
I agree with this. That's actually the main reason I made the Easy Series, though it didn't work that well in the end for a variety of reasons. The idea behind it was if there was a collection of good Easy/Normal/Hard difficulties that people would be more willing to make said good Easy/Normal/Hard. But again, didn't work and probably wasn't the best idea in hindsight.

awp wrote:

I don't understand the reasoning here in terms of "competitive" - competitive is based on individual map basis, isn't it? Has nothing to do with an absurdly high score on a map since they're all relative. Surely nobody around here still believes that Total Ranked Score is a viable metric for one's skill? It hasn't been for years.
I also agree with this. It's just unfeasible to play almost every map nowadays because there are way too many of them.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi

mochi wrote:

When did this thread become a discussion about skill level and extremely difficult maps...?
Yeah, quoting that.

The actual discussions is to decide BETTER the difference between Ranked and Approved, who the hell just mentioned deleting the "Approved" category?

By far some people Approved map ONLY because they didn't want to map easier difficulties. And no one spitting over that.

It's not about how fast a map get ranked, or how easily, or similiar, really ( i suck as a player, as a mapper and as a modder, still ) or how much a player is experienced. The ranked + approved diff mapset are still a better idea than one ( say 1 ) difficulty mapsets, and when you CAN map an easier difficulty, and you can make all type of players enjoy the song... yeah, it's better, much.

P.S - Gimmick maps aren't meant to be approved, silly jackasses.
i don't approve this (silly joke, seeing the discussion). However, they are good maps, the mapper take much time to create, and then ...you just make them end in the graveyard, calling them "silly jackasses" ? This show how much respect someone have for users, really.
Lesjuh
Elite Mapper
2,442 posts
Joined October 2008
Topic Starter
Lesjuh

ztrot wrote:

This whole fucking thread is bullshit. Let's get rid of approval? Well, let's just get rid of the whole damn game then. If scoring metrics doesn't matter anymore, then why should it matter how many maps are in a set?

If I want one diff set for a hard map that is meant to give a challenge, that is what I'm going to do. Getting rid of approval isn't going to force rules of approval, it just means the marathon maps are just going to add score based on a per-map basis (I.E Top 40), and on a monthly chart. This thread will solve nothing. Instead of bitching and whining (even more so the fact that the bitcher and whiner here did something that breaks the rules far more than these!), why don't you reivew the maps you questioned, since they fit the "CURRENT STANDARDS. Just because some of you can no-life the game and thus have far more skill than the average player doesn't mean the maps in question are easy. Some of you are veteran players, keep in question the rest of the people that play this game, rather than yourself and your groups of friends.

All you're doing now is just blowing hot air since you're upset that your maps don't get ranked as fast as others. So you just try to justify your complaints and in the process, you're doing far more evil than good.

P.S - Gimmick maps aren't meant to be approved, silly jackasses.
umad? Getting rid of approval would solve the problem this thread is about. Ofcourse it would create a lot of new problems so we have to either make clear rules or change something.
I know your map fits the current standards and there's nothing wrong with it, but you should understand that a single diff with under 18 million points that doesn't break any rule could just as well be ranked with two easier difficulties. Do you just want to allow people to create short 1-diff maps for approval, fine. Don't be surprised when more mappers appear with such maps, including me. And stop telling mappers to add easier difficulties and go for ranking.

Just because some of you can no-life the game and thus have far more skill than the average player doesn't mean the maps in question are easy. Some of you are veteran players, keep in question the rest of the people that play this game, rather than yourself and your groups of friends.
There are hunderds of maps far harder than yours ranked. I'm not saying that because I'm better than the average player, but because it's a fact.

P.S - Gimmick maps aren't meant to be approved, silly jackasses.
Disturbia. Max score 8 million. Approved because of it's gimmick.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
honestly, approval is probably there to at least give mappers some incentive to include easier maps in the set in order to push it for ranking instead. if we remove approval, higher tier mappers are just going to start mapping insanes non stop without really catering for the other playerbases.

i'm sure you can see why this is bad, score metric aside
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
So make 80m maps rankable if they have easy;normal diff and then we're all happy, plus you get some more low tier diffs since mappers gonna want their maps ranked instead of approved. Right now if you map some streamy 3m long song you get like 30m max score and you don't even bother with other diffs since you know you can't go for rank. Just delete that score rule and make approval maps those that have NO easy diffs, or those that have about 15 diffs and stuff idk (ofc marathon maps should never be ranked).
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
80m ranked maps is probably out of the question. at best, i could see the limit being raised to 30-40mil
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
Lesjuh the current cap is 15 mil so until rules are sorted out and are not in the air or subject to change I will not use them. End of story.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
As of the New Rules Draft, Approval are just treated the same as Ranked but with a few difference(about score, draining time and spread). This push people making Insanes Only mapset, just make it return like before, when Approved maps really had something different from Rankeds (other then being 1-diff spreads)
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Soaprman

Lesjuh wrote:

P.S - Gimmick maps aren't meant to be approved, silly jackasses.
Disturbia. Max score 8 million. Approved because of it's gimmick.
Actually, the definition of the approval category changed silently at some point in time because gimmick maps don't fly anymore.

I'm all for reverting it, of course.
Cygnus
1,517 posts
Joined December 2011
Cygnus
Laziness in making another diff?
Monsterpiece
Monsterpiece
A song with only 1 diff can't be ranked :)
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Pointless topic is pointless, this shouldn't have been discussed the way it did, please read: t/56754 next time.
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