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Rokodo
1,104 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
Rokodo

lepidopodus wrote:

Maybe we should debate about this one again but kinda hard to gather those 'minorities lurking in somewhere between majorities'.
(Or making new topic or something like that.)

Wake up guys... *sigh*

EDIT: And I really think we should mention here about measures and barlines.

EDIT 2:
Well we should do something with these issues.

Countdown: Permit or not
Slider Velocity: Force/recommend some value or leave it to mappers to set freely
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: Allow it or not
Kiai Time: Should use/leave it to mappers & Set some restrictions/leave it to mappers
Note Combo: Limited to 999/no restrictions
Drum rolls: Not to use short drum rolls/spam drum rolls etc.
Spinners: Restrict them by some way or not
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: same as above.
Break Sections: Allow it or not
Custom Hitbursts: No way to fix this currently
Measures and Barlines etc...

Feel free to add issues. I know it's knida useless effort but well, I just wanted to try. Just don't laugh at me.
My personal thoughts on this:

Countdowns in taiko specific maps should not be permitted. Period.

There should be a warning for changing slider velocity like some sort of hint popup stating that 1.4 is the visual optimum based on authentic Taiko no Tatsujin games, and that this should generally be used as a default or base (i.e. not kiai time) velocity for maps. I also think some people might be confused by 1/3 + 1/6 or 'odd beat' timed maps (e.g. Metal Hawk) from TnT as they appear to use a different slider velocity if you do not recognize that the beats are not even such as is the case in 1/2 or 1/4 streams.

Note combo... I still prefer to map to 999 or under but we cannot stop people from mapping over this 'limit'.
We used to say no 1/8 in taiko maps, then Namco ruined that anyway. So I won't tell people what to do here anymore. It's really personal preference.

Finish notes should rarely be used in 1/4 timing let alone streams. There are a couple of exceptions, i.e. using a faster custom slider velocity and adding a few finishes such as D KD KD. As long as the notes aren't visually overlapping cases like this are acceptable for short periods of a map:


1/4 finish notes on 1.75x velocity.

Overlapping notes on BPM changes can be avoided if the mapper knows what s/he is doing, just make sure that the notes between different BPM sections are at least 1 beat apart and it should be readable. Sometimes slowdown just cannot be helped, even in my maps:


As long as the BPM is not going from insanely fast to insanely slow I think this is ok. It is subject to opinion.

Spinners cannot really be regulated but they shouldn't be used one after the other or for long periods, say for more than 4 beats.

Again, kiai time is hard to regulate in terms of how many times people use it. However, there should be a warning dialog as I would like to see when changing slider velocity for taiko specific maps that states it should be used for consistent periods during a) the chorus of the song or b) the ending section of the song if there is no notable chorus. I'm personally sick of seeing these kiai 'flashes' in taiko specific map attempts.

Break sections should not be permitted where possible, and forced ones can be deleted with minimal knowledge after the completion of a beatmap using Notepad if required. The only trouble is if the taiko difficulty is the only map in the set then you cannot export an osz as going back into the taiko difficulty will result in a break section being automatically added again. orz

Drum rolls are really determined by osu! and so the number of beats on them cannot be controlled as such. Repetitive drum rolls i.e. more than 2 in a row on taiko specific difficulties should really be avoided.

As for measures and barlines, I usually leave tick rate (which should control the amount of barlines as is my understanding) at 1 or set to 0.5. It doesn't seem to matter what you set it to in osu! below 1 at the moment.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
I mostly agreed with Rokodo.

Rokodo wrote:

We used to say no 1/8 in taiko maps, then Namco ruined that anyway. So I won't tell people what to do here anymore. It's really personal preference.
I think we should avoid to use 1/8, cause it usually too overlapped(and this means hard to read them properly), and hard to hit(as player should tap keys twice faster than 1/4). Most of case 1/8 does not match the song a lot. But we can't prohibit to use 1/8s, as Rokodo said.

Rokodo wrote:

Finish notes should rarely be used in 1/4 timing let alone streams. There are a couple of exceptions, i.e. using a faster custom slider velocity and adding a few finishes such as D KD KD. As long as the notes aren't visually overlapping cases like this are acceptable for short periods of a map:
So we need exact standard of that... I should think about that.

Rokodo wrote:

Spinners cannot really be regulated but they shouldn't be used one after the other or for long periods, say for more than 4 beats.
I think it shouldn't too close to next notes, as it can interupt hitting it. Of course, spamming spinners should be avoided.

Rokodo wrote:

Break sections should not be permitted where possible, and forced ones can be deleted with minimal knowledge after the completion of a beatmap using Notepad if required. The only trouble is if the taiko difficulty is the only map in the set then you cannot export an osz as going back into the taiko difficulty will result in a break section being automatically added again. orz
We don't need Break section in short maps but in the case that the map is long or osu automatically add those, it can be permitted.

Rokodo wrote:

As for measures and barlines, I usually leave tick rate (which should control the amount of barlines as is my understanding) at 1 or set to 0.5. It doesn't seem to matter what you set it to in osu! below 1 at the moment.
Uh... tick rate aren't affect barlines that way as I know. I mean, lots of mappers in osu ignore barlines, but in Taiko barlines are actually appeared when you play the game so I think we should check that barlines are placed properly.

EDIT:
Countdown: X
Slider Velocity: 1.4 recommend?
1/8 notes: Avoid
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: X (need standard)
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Avoid use this over two in a row.
Spinners: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 away from the next note.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Need warning
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Avoid
Break Sections: allow with certain circumtances
Measures and Barlines: Should be checked

uh.... something like this?
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
Countdown: DISABLE.
Slider Velocity: 1.4 unless special cases occur.
1/8 notes: 1/8 isn't usually practical on any rhythm game, not just Taiko.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: NO, unless you're going for something special.
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Only use when called for.
Spinners: No restrictions, just no overlapping.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 3x and lower than 0.33x.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.
Break Sections: try right-clicking to eliminate.
Measures and Barlines: Definitely. If it is necessary to keep adding red lines, do it.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus

Zekira wrote:

Countdown: DISABLE.
Slider Velocity: 1.4 unless special cases occur.
1/8 notes: 1/8 isn't usually practical on any rhythm game, not just Taiko.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: NO, unless you're going for something special.
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Only use when called for.
Spinners: No restrictions, just no overlapping.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 3x and lower than 0.33x.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.
Break Sections: try right-clicking to eliminate.
Measures and Barlines: Definitely. If it is necessary to keep adding red lines, do it.
Slighty different with mine, hmm....

For slider velosity we may recommend to use it but cannot force it, as it can be one feature of osu Taiko. Actually I experienced some mappers who even avoid using 1.4 cause they think it's too slow.

For spinners, yeah it shouldn't be overlapped, but if BPM is quite high, is it possible to interfere next note 'technically', not by visually or something like that?

For scroll change, yeah, we should avoid using too hight, and I think we restrict the lowest limit cause if it's too slow it's almost impossible to hit them. (It's slighty different with high speeds, as putting high speed mapper force the players to memorize some part (possilbe, but shouldn't be used too much) but if it's too low... You know, we really need great accuracy to hit the notes, as the notes are way tooo slow.) I think the lowest limit should be x0.5. Anyway, should we force putting warning if there's sudden, and big SV change?

What do you think about limits to use finish note, Zekira? How long should the distance between the big notes and other notes be?
Numbers 596108
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2011
773 posts
Joined November 2009
Numbers 596108
ah...BPM...i think...Need change to...no limit...
like this music...it be about 0.5~6.0 BPM in there
Last edited by Numbers 596108 , edited 1 time in total.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Uh... Shin garyou tensei has actual BPM drop so it would be Ok... I was talking about SV change (no actual BPM change but change in the speed of the notes)

Anyway 0989596108, you oppose to set a limit to the note speed, right?
Numbers 596108
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2011
773 posts
Joined November 2009
Numbers 596108
yes...but I will do everything to fight this restriction
this has been a bit unfair...
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Well then, feel free to post your opinion here. You suggested x8 or.... x4? anyway you want higher limit, right? Well my case I don't want to set highest limit but too high speed should be avoidable, as player should memorize whole thing...
Numbers 596108
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2011
773 posts
Joined November 2009
Numbers 596108

lepidopodus wrote:

Well then, feel free to post your opinion here. You suggested x8 or.... x4? anyway you want higher limit, right? Well my case I don't want to set highest limit but too high speed should be avoidable, as player should memorize whole thing...
lol...8x is too fast...about 4x ...i agree it can add...
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Uh... then how about this one? "Avoid to use over x4"? Not a restriction so over x4 can be used if the mapper reeeeeeeeeally wants to use but maximum should be x4 in most case, What do you think? Though there should be discussion before we set an exact limit... Well, I support x4 if it does not restrict 'all' maps over x4.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
What do you think about limits to use finish note, Zekira? How long should the distance between the big notes and other notes be?
For normal cases, 1/3 and 1/2 should be the farthest it can get.

For songs with less than 85BPM though, 1/4 is allowed.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus

Zekira wrote:

For normal cases, 1/3 and 1/2 should be the farthest it can get.

For songs with less than 85BPM though, 1/4 is allowed.
I think 1/4 streams in Big note should be prohibited even low BPM, as it drops readability.

Anyway for big notes, can 1/3 with SV=1.4 be limit? That means if we use SV = 1.9 we can use 1/4 with Big notes?

EDIT :
Countdown: X
Slider Velocity: 1.4 recommend?
1/8 notes: Avoid
Finish Notes in streams: Big note shouldn't closer than 1/3 in SV=1/3 (Other words, If you set higher than 1.87 you can use Big notes with 1/4 streams)
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Avoid use this over two in a row.
Spinners: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 away from the next note.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Need warning? Avoid using over x4, don't use under x0.5
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Avoid
Break Sections: allow with certain circumtances
Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed

Just my thoughts so we need more discussing & mapper's opninions.

EDIT 2:
Re-mentioning Zekira's

Countdown: DISABLE.
Slider Velocity: 1.4 unless special cases occur.
1/8 notes: 1/8 isn't usually practical on any rhythm game, not just Taiko.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: 1/4 with SV=1.4 --> NO, unless you're going for something special. + For songs with less than 85BPM though, 1/4 is allowed.
Kiai Time: no restrictions
Note Combo: no restrictions
Drum rolls: Only use when called for.
Spinners: No restrictions, just no overlapping.
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 3x and lower than 0.33x.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.
Break Sections: try right-clicking to eliminate.
Measures and Barlines: Definitely. If it is necessary to keep adding red lines, do it.

There's some slight difference...
aabc271
osu! Alumni
1,334 posts
Joined August 2009
aabc271
Well, as lepidon's request, i will add some of my opinions here~

Countdown: Permit when it is better to turn it on
Slider Velocity: I recommend 1.4, but i think 1.6 is OK. Not recommended to use other SV unless in special circumstances
1/8 notes: Should be avoided unless in very slow songs ( BPM <80, but only use them at most a few in a song, never spam 1/8 notes )
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: No. Finishes should be also avoided in 1/6 and 1/8. I think using finishes at 1/3 is the limit
Kiai Time: No restrictions, but do not use too much in a song
Note Combo: No restrictions
Drum rolls: Not recommended to use drum rolls that are shorter than a 1/1.
Spinners: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 ( 1/1 is recommended ) away from the next note
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Avoid using anything higher than 2.5x and lower than 0.33x
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Should be avoided if possible
Break Sections: No restrictions, but do not use breaks which are too long ( >20s )
Measures and Barlines: Should be checked if the barlines are placed correctly. Add red lines only when needed
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Seems there's some consensus about these issues:

Slider Velocity: 1.4 Recommend
1/8 notes: Should be avoided
Finish Notes in streams: Not with 1/4, Ok with 1/3. (We exact standard limit though.)
Kiai Time: No restrictions
Note Combo: No restrictions
Drum rolls: Avoid usginf drum rolls shorter than a 1/1, avoid using 2 in a row, etc.
Limitation of Scroll speed: Need to be regulate, but everyone has some different point of view about exact limit.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Avoid
Measures and Barlines: Need to be placed correctly

For countdown, we need to talk as some have differnt view. Also we need to discuss about exact limit of Finish notes and Scroll speed.
Still open for new issues, and need more opinions.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
I still say no to countdown ._.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Actually I don't like countdown too. Well, if other mapper think so, we can restrict countdown but if not, we can't restrict that.
To decide this, I think we need more opnion.
aquabluu
5,024 posts
Joined February 2008
aquabluu

lepidopodus wrote:

Countdown: No. But I've always been lazy to disable it in my maps, so yeah. I'll work on it.
Slider Velocity: The standard is 1.4. Any higher or lower and the beat spacing will look odd. Minor exceptions, perhaps.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: In small amounts, maybe (see Oodain)
Kiai Time: Unreasonable to make a song unrankable due to >1 minute of Kiai. Loosen the rule for Taiko, especially authentic maps. (see Kimi no Akari, Taiko Ranbu: Honoo no Maki)
Note Combo: IMO, more than 999 is fine, but ONLY if the song is more than 3 1/2 minutes long.
Drum rolls: Fine, as long as there are no more than five short drumrolls in a row (see Numujika ac.10)
Spinners: Not more than three short spinners in a row, otherwise, no restrictions. (see Numujika ac.10, PaPaPa Love)
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: This should be done only for novelty's sake, not for a ranked map.
Break Sections: Breaks are forced no matter which part of osu you're playing, but it really isn't necessary for Taiko

Feel free to add issues. I know it's knida useless effort but well, I just wanted to try. Just don't laugh at me.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
(see Numujika ac.10)
The worst case for drumroll examples.

Ever.
Lokamp
2,530 posts
Joined January 2009
Lokamp
Hmm, let's see...

Countdown: Anti-estethic to see and to hear in osu. And that means NO countdown!
Slider Velocity: Generally for Tv sized Taiko maps using a x1.30 multiplier is good, but I think it's better to let mappers set them for themselves...
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: uglyuglyuglyUGLY! It doesn't have much sense, perhaps.
Kiai Time: For song choruses is fine, but even for this stands all to mappers's choice. Even because some taiko original songs from Namco games abuse of Kiai time for over half map (Examples: Taiko Go!-Go! Godaime Opening song or Okashi Deka no Uta)
Note Combo: I personally love using particular max combo numbers as a continuation to Namco's, but for the other mappers can be good enough to let them choose how many notes insert (just, don't fill 1-minutes song with an exagerate number of notes... @.o
Drum rolls:Meh, it's good for me, until (as said before from others) don't stack 4-5 sliders on a row, or a serie of sliders which changes continously speed...
Spinners: there isn't a minimum/maximum value for them. Just, don't let players insets TOO MANY on a row, even if some exeption are seen on Taiko games (see Speed King)
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: It's fine; just leave a little zone with no notes between BPM's changes from slower to faster; and vice versa, from faster to slower isn't needed a zone without beats...
Break Sections: If someone wants to map something in Taiko mode, maybe he/she must stay away to use break zones, in my opinion...
Measures and Barlines Maybe for specific maps, skilled guys with a storyboarding experience can set a particular Taiko drum for their songs! I know it's hard, but maybe by encouraging people to try this artistic road, players would enjoy better playing that map...
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

lepidopodus wrote:

Maybe we should debate about this one again but kinda hard to gather those 'minorities lurking in somewhere between majorities'.
(Or making new topic or something like that.)

Wake up guys... *sigh*

EDIT: And I really think we should mention here about measures and barlines.

EDIT 2:
Well we should do something with these issues.

Countdown: Permit or not
Slider Velocity: Force/recommend some value or leave it to mappers to set freely
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: Allow it or not
Kiai Time: Should use/leave it to mappers & Set some restrictions/leave it to mappers
Note Combo: Limited to 999/no restrictions
Drum rolls: Not to use short drum rolls/spam drum rolls etc.
Spinners: Restrict them by some way or not
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: same as above.
Break Sections: Allow it or not
Custom Hitbursts: No way to fix this currently
Measures and Barlines etc...

Feel free to add issues. I know it's knida useless effort but well, I just wanted to try. Just don't laugh at me.
Countdown: What is wrong with a countdown?

Slider Velocity: I believe this should stay at 1.4 for most songs, unless the song has a very slow bpm ( Like under 100 )

Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: No.

Kiai Time: I think kiai should be regulated to some point, because not every part needs kiai. Maybe once or twice a song is fine, depending on length of song and how many times it play a chorus.

Note Combo: I think mappers should be able to have a combo as big as they like, I know its in namco tradition or something to do this, but I guess it could fall into terms for the length of the map. (Like a 2 minute song shouldn't have 100000000 combo. lol)

Drumrolls: Ends and starts should be at least a half a measure apart.

Spinners: Spinners are fine in a good moderation like kiai and sliders.

Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Someone fill me in on what this means >_>

Break Sections: I wouldn't see a problem in this as long as there not very long breaks, or again, depending on the length of the song. If a map is 2 minutes you should map the whole thing, but if its, lets say 4 minutes, mapping can get a bit repetitive.

I didn't read everyone else's post because i'm in a bit of a hurry, but I will keep an eye on this.
Mara
4,906 posts
Joined November 2009
Mara
What about custom skins in taiko diffs? Is it allowed or disallowed?
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

LunaticMara wrote:

What about custom skins in taiko diffs? Is it allowed or disallowed?
Depends on how annoying the hitburst is, we should try and keep it to the normal taiko skin though.
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
OK,so here's my two cents....

Countdown: Eh it doesn't affect gameplay,so I don't mind having them.(heck,my taikomaps have them too)
But a big no-no for authentic maps.

Slider Velocity: Keep it at 1.4,unless it's absolutely necessary to use another value.

Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: IDK,it depends on the song itself.(sometimes it sounds better that way)
But keep it at a minimum.

Kiai Time: Depends on the length of the song...but for regular length songs,perhaps one or two is enough.

Note Combo: Once again,depends on song length.For regular length it's better to keep it under 999.

Drum rolls: Unless it's authentic or on Kantan/Futsuu,no drumroll spamming.

Spinners: Not too much,and no having notes immediately after spinners.After all,spinners cover the whole screen.

Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO.Overlapped notes are impossible to hit.

Break Sections: Since breaks or the lack of it won't affect taiko gameplay...I don't mind having them.

Custom Hitbursts: I'd rather not have them.

Measures and Barlines etc... IDK about this...
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Countdown: Seems quite lot's of mappers don't mind whether it's turn on or off... Should we say 'avoid countdown', or just set no restriction about this?
Slider Velocity: Lots of mapper think 1.4 is fair, but we don't need to force it. Let just say 'recommend' it.
1/8 notes: lol seems everyone missed this one. Anyway it needs to be avoided.
Finish Notes in streams: Seems most mappers don't like this. Anyway we need to set exact limitation, as mappers sometimes set SV other than 1.4.
Kiai Time: Some said about some criteria. See above.
Note Combo: Seems some mappers like certain number, but basically we don't need to regulate this, right?
Drum rolls: Of course everone don't like spamming...
Spinners: ^
Sudden change of Scroll speed: We need some exact limitation of this. We got some opnions already...
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: We don't like this.
Break Sections: Seems it's not that necessary in Taiko, let's say... avoid this unless the song is long?
Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed

Hmm... any suggestion?

EDIT: subject changed.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

lepidopodus wrote:

Countdown: Seems quite lot's of mappers don't mind whether it's turn on or off... Should we say 'avoid countdown', or just set no restriction about this?
Slider Velocity: Lots of mapper think 1.4 is fair, but we don't need to force it. Let just say 'recommend' it.
1/8 notes: lol seems everyone missed this one. Anyway it needs to be avoided.
Finish Notes in streams: Seems most mappers don't like this. Anyway we need to set exact limitation, as mappers sometimes set SV other than 1.4.
Kiai Time: Some said about some criteria. See above.
Note Combo: Seems some mappers like certain number, but basically we don't need to regulate this, right?
Drum rolls: Of course everone don't like spamming...
Spinners: ^
Sudden change of Scroll speed: We need some exact limitation of this. We got some opnions already...
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: We don't like this.
Break Sections: Seems it's not that necessary in Taiko, let's say... avoid this unless the song is long?
Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed

Hmm... any suggestion?

EDIT: subject changed.
Looks fair. :3
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Still need more opnion. This post should be more active than now.
*send some invitations to other mappers*
arien666
6,301 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666
Countdown: I prefer not to use this thing orz
Slider Velocity: Unless yours is TaikOsu, 1.4 is the best speed imo ;_;
1/8 notes: Except Hataraku2000 or else crazy songs, It doesn't need to be overused orz
Finish Notes in streams: NEVER except OOdain...
Kiai Time: As 'DON'T CUT', do not cut Kiai Time while that's highlight part ;_;
Note Combo: Maximum 999 is fine on TV-size or the songs which are up to 2min. Else, unlimited orz
Drum rolls: Doesn't need to be overused but... WTF YMCK...[Muzukashii...]
Spinners: ^
Sudden change of Scroll speed: I dunno but if rhythm distance is too short, it should not be used orz
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NEVER.
Break Sections: If TaikOsu, allow :3 If Taiko-only? I dunno ;_;
Measures and Barlines: Depends on song's data orz



:3?
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
Countdown: Depend on songs
Slider Velocity: no restriction imo.
Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: NO unless obviously slow (e.g. BPM 100
Kiai Time: similar to solo diff, except those created by namco
Note Combo: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Drum rolls: I suggest at least drumroll should at least last 1 beat, also dense rolls should be avoided (I don't know why there's 1/8 drumroll sometimes...)
Spinners: NO restrictions
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Overlapped notes are absolutely unrankable. At least no two notes should be so near, not even due to BPM changes.
Break Sections: No restrictions to break or not, but no need to put break section on breaks, TaikOsu of course allow~
Custom Hitbursts: I closed that function ._.
Measures and Barlines etc... <- same as solo
1/8 notes <- NO way for fast songs, also applied to 1/6
Sudden change of Scroll speed <- Avoid whenever possible.




More about SV: 1.4 would not be a good choice for every song, while we should never try to force taiko map in osu to become another namco demonstration, and I used to start with 1.6 or 1.8...

Authentic is shouldn't be our standard, show our creativity under a reasonable way will be fine enough :D
aquabluu
5,024 posts
Joined February 2008
aquabluu
1/8 notes should be restricted to songs with BPM of <170, and never used on anything but the top-level difficulty.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
In fact 1/8 patterns rarely appear in a song, and they should be restricted unless it's obvious to be 1/8... and the 1/8 shouldn't be long too. (5 maybe)
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Authentics are not determined by SV=1.4....

It seems mappers participated in here usually prefer 1.4 but lots of them think it can't be forced, so basically there won't be some kind of restriction, though we may be able to recommend or advice to use 1.4. (Maybe mappers who supports 1.4 want some consistency with patterns so it can be easily read)

Anyway we need more opnions...
Mic
66 posts
Joined March 2009
Mic
1.Countdown: Depending on the beginning of the song
2.Slider Velocity:126↓BPM=2.6-2.8,126↑BPM=1.4-1.6(1.4 is better)
3.Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: It will affect map artistic,so it doesn't permit
4.Kiai Time: Decides according to the song
5.Note Combo: (4)
6.Drum rolls: Namco also in using
7.Spinners: Restrict them by some way(4)
8.Overlapped notes by BPM Changes:(4)
9.Break Sections: not
10.1/8 notes:(4)
11.Sudden change of Scroll speed:(4)
---
i can only reply these :oops:
"don't forget that your map does for who"
ShanaTan
184 posts
Joined August 2009
ShanaTan
Well imo almost everything is optional considering that this is taiko osu! afterall. Although I do feel that some things need to be considered when specifically mapping a taiko map.

For example. . .

Countdown: Really, this should be up to the mapper, although I prefer maps that doesn't use a countdown.
Slider Velocity: Again I think this should be up to the mapper, although keeping it within a certain limit would be nice, like not using a too high SV when the bpm is high etc.
1/8 notes: This is definately a pain too see, especially if the number of notes in a 1/8 stream exceeds by 5.
Finish Notes in streams: Ugh this is one of the things that is a pain aswell unless the bpm is really low >.<
Kiai Time: Nothing special here, just don't overuse it.
Note Combo: Up to the mapper.
Drum rolls: Up to the mapper although seeing alot of high bpm drumrolls in a row is very tiring.
Spinners: Well same thing as ^ basically.
Break Sections: Up to the mapper.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: I guess this is one of the things I don't want too see.

Well that's my opinion =P
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Ok let's arrange these opnions...

Countdown: At first lots of mapper said there should be no countdown in Taiko map, but as discussion progressing, there are many opnions that we don't need to regulate that. So just saying 'We recommend not to use countdown, but if you think it's better, feel free to use it.'. Is it sounds fair?

Slider Velocity: Still lots of mapper favors 1.4, but can't force it to every map, so let's say 'recommend 1.4 but feel free to use other value, unless it's too high or too low.' Is it sounds fair?

1/8 notes: 'Avoid using 1/8 notes, and 1/8 stream over 5 notes is considered as annoying.' Is it sounds fair?
Some more opinions:
  • aabc271: Should be avoided unless in very slow songs like BPM <80
    arien666: Avoid unless it's a crazy map.
    aquabluu: Should be restricted to songs with BPM of <170
Big Notes in 1/4 streams: Seems most mappers don't like this so let's just say 'don't use Big Notes in 1/4 streams in SV=1.4.' Anyway we need to set exact limitation, as mappers sometimes set SV other than 1.4.
Opinions for Exact limitation:
  • lepidopodus: Over SV=1.8, Big notes in 1/4 stream is allowed.
    Zekira: Allow if the BPM is lower than 85.
    aabc271: Restrict less than 1/4. Over 1/3 is ok.
    wmfchris: Allow if the BPM is really low like BPM 100.
Kiai Time: 'Do not overuse.', and maybe we can add 'putting it in chorus parts is recommended'... and maybe some more.

Note Combo: Seems there's no need to regulate this. Just say 'Do not overmap too much.'

Drum rolls: 'Do not spam.'
Some more opnions:
  • Rokodo: Avoid 2 in a row.
    aabc271: Avoid shorter than 1/1.
    aquabluu: No more than 5 in a row.
    Lokamp: Don't stack 4-5 sliders on a row, avoid series of sliders which changes speed continously.
    MMzz: Ends and starts should be at least a half a measure apart.
    wmfchris: Drumroll should at least last 1 beat, dense rolls should be avoided.
Spinners: 'Do not spam.'
Some more opnions:
  • lepidopodus: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 away from the next note.
    Zekira: No overlapping.
    aabc271: End of sppiner should be at least 1/2 ( 1/1 is recommended ) away from the next note.
    Lokamp: Don't insert too many on a row.
    crystalsuicune: Avoid notes immediately after spinners.
    Natsumerin: Make it as closer to the next note as possible.
Limitations for note speed change (SV change): We got some suggestions. 'You can use SV changes over this limit, only when you have good reasons for it.' <--- How is it?
Opinion for Exact limitation:
  • lepidopodus: x0.5~x4.0 (Technically it will be doubled BPM with x2.0.)
    Zekira: x0.33~x3.0
    0989596108: ~4.0
    aabc271: x0.33~x2.5
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: NO

Break Sections: 'We recommend not to use it, unless the song is long.', looks fair?

Measures and Barlines: Need to add uninherited section if it's needed. Pulse needs to be corrected.

Some opinions may omitted by mistakes orz
Still this is opening for other opinions.
And I think we can add some advice to mappers, like samiljul said, 'It's not good to put sudden, very long streams of 1/4 notes in the map filled with 1/2 streams.'...?
Last edited by lepidopodus , edited 1 time in total.
Krisom
osu! Alumni
2,867 posts
Joined April 2009
Krisom
Ok, asking some questions I have not seen.

Spinner lenght.-
I've seen the "do not spam" and " don't place a note/slider too close to it. What about the lenght of it?

SB.-
Some storyboards seem ugly on taiko diffs. Should this be regulated? A different storyboard should be used for a taiko diff? or should we avoid storyboards on taiko diffs?

Video.-
Same as above

Background.-
(Yeah, i'm pointing out visual stuff) Making a different backgroundwith roko's template is not hard enough. Should a different background for a taiko diff be forced? or it may use too much space in the end?

That is
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
NatsumeRin
Countdown: up to the mapper, but better no.
Slider Velocity: 1.4~1.6. if the song is really slow, maybe could increase it a bit.
1/8 notes: for <100 BPM: it's fine to use it, 100~160: better not to use it, but if not more than 5 combos it's acceptable. >160: if there's not a good reason i'll just say no.
Finish Notes in streams: for <100 BPM it's fine. but not more.
Kiai Time: depends on the song.
Note Combo: i don't mind it..
Drum rolls: consider the current situation osu's drum roll can't be the same as authenic... so another use could be "for 1/4s"
Spinners: if OD is not high it's easy for every user to finish, make it as closer to the next note as possible.
Break Sections: "few notes sections", but not break.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: it's ok if not weird.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus

Krisom wrote:

Spinner lenght.-
I've seen the "do not spam" and " don't place a note/slider too close to it. What about the lenght of it?
Length itself isn't that problem. Just don't put it too close to the next note, as some mappers said above.

SB.-
Some storyboards seem ugly on taiko diffs. Should this be regulated? A different storyboard should be used for a taiko diff? or should we avoid storyboards on taiko diffs?
Yeah, sometimes it's ugly, but it can be easily fixed in most case.(method is different by case though.) I think we don't need to regulate that, unless everyone says it's ugly.

Video.-
Same as above
Personally I don't care about video that much. If it's bad for playing Taiko, it would be bad for playing other diffs as well.

Background.-
(Yeah, i'm pointing out visual stuff) Making a different backgroundwith roko's template is not hard enough. Should a different background for a taiko diff be forced? or it may use too much space in the end?
I think If the BG isn't that too ugly with Taiko it doesn't need to be forced, but we can advice and introduce to use some kind of templates(yeah, like Roko's one) in the guidelines.
Well these are my personal opinion.

NatsumeRin wrote:

Spinners: if OD is not high it's easy for every user to finish, make it as closer to the next note as possible.
Others are not that different from other mapper's opinion but this kinda conflicts with some mappers, anyway we need to discuss about this, maybe.
My case I sometimes feels hard with clearing spinners even ith OD=5, but when I use differnt key with same keyboard with same arrangement, it's easier to clear that. Anyway I'm worrying about the next note can be interupt too much if the note is too close to the spinner.

(That 'Overlapped notes by BPM Changes' seems too ambiguous and it confused everyone orz)
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris

Krisom wrote:

Spinner lenght.-
I've seen the "do not spam" and " don't place a note/slider too close to it. What about the lenght of it?
Background.-
(Yeah, i'm pointing out visual stuff) Making a different backgroundwith roko's template is not hard enough. Should a different background for a taiko diff be forced? or it may use too much space in the end?
Spinner - imo there should be some break (1/2) between a short spinner (1 beat?) and the next notes. But for longer spinner it doesn't matter.

Background - The "taiko background" provides a bar to let people know what they're playing. But in osu we can know that from the windoe frame so I don't think a different background is forced to be used.

=======More idea========

As taiko's HP bar isn't drained during empty time, I think there's no need to set up break sections.

Speed change: At least it should be changed between two streams, but not during the streams to confuse players?

1/4 Big notes: A footnote should be made that if the song is obviously fast, then BPM 2xx 1/2 big notes is ok~
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Agreed with spinner thing, though I think every spinner should be 1/2 away from the next note.
About background, yeah, we don't need to force that, though we can introduce something about that.

Ah, that speed change, I agree about that, slight change of the speed change (let's say 'less than x0.5') isn't that problem, but I think sudden big change of speed chagne during 1/4, 1/6, 1/8 streams is too much.
arien666
6,301 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666

Rokodo wrote:

Note Combo

Preferably, keep the circle count of taiko specific maps at 999 or below. (In accordance with Taiko no Tatsujin tradition.)
This is no longer actieve for the rules since Shimedore's Oni is with 1414 notes even it's authentic
orz
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
We already made that rule obsoleted long time ago, arken.

lol 45 days late reply.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
WHY NOT

Countdown: No
Slider Velocity: 1.4. If it's to slow, use an inherit throughout the song.
1/8 notes: Unless you know what you're doing here, don't.
Finish Notes in streams: Uhh, depends on stream speed? But no.
Kiai Time: Use it in choruses and such, no limit of usage...
Note Combo: If it surpasses 3 minutes and you wanna make some sort of crazy Oni, then it's fine. Don't let this limit you.
Drum rolls: Scarce use. DO NOT use it for every long note in the song. Maybe use it to label Inner Oni pathway :3
Spinners: If used in a cool way that makes sense it's fine. Can be used as a ninja note, and made very long
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Uhh, hard to explain how this would fit. It's fine if you wanna add a ninja note, I guess.
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Yeah, this is bad.
Break Sections: Noooo. Tire the person! Kill his arms! He deserves it!
Measures and Barlines: Uh, what? I guess it depends...
Yuzeyun
7,646 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
I never saw this thread o.o

Countdown: NO.
Slider Velocity: 1.40.
1/8 notes: If the song's <75 BPM, you can. the SONG, not the map. (ee. Sack, 35 BPM. inb4 who would map this ?)
Finish Notes in streams:^ (but not with 1/8 unless the SONG is <40 BPM)
Kiai Time: Don't spam.
Note Combo: 99,999 (who would do higher ?) **EDITED because my pootin' Taikomiza is going to 8.000 notes, that is friggin' huge**
Drum rolls: Use them.
Spinners: Not too long (Don't do Mosquito like I do : Making a 300-hit spinner)
Sudden change of Scroll speed: Ninjanoting yeah, else use progressive change (Rokodo does on some of his maps.)
Overlapped notes by BPM Changes: Seriously this is s・・・(I miss because of intempestive BPM changes that are x0.5 x1 x0.5 x2)
Break Sections: Break as using 2/1 notes ? yeah. Else no.
Measures and Barlines: I HAVE NO CLUE.
Coro
2,394 posts
Joined September 2010
Coro
How does one make a short drumroll in TaikOsu? A short slider gets converted into 2 notes...
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock

CoroQuetz wrote:

How does one make a short drumroll in TaikOsu? A short slider gets converted into 2 notes...
You can't. Usually people end up doubling the BPM
Rei Hakurei
1,983 posts
Joined February 2011
Rei Hakurei

CoroQuetz wrote:

How does one make a short drumroll in TaikOsu? A short slider gets converted into 2 notes...
afaik, shortest drum roll is about 7/4-2/1 slider (drum roll counts 1/4 beat as 1 rolls, 1/2 beat as 2 rolls, and 1/1 beat as 4 rolls.)
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Hello everybody,
some people may knew it allready, I have want to say some things about the Gudelines. Overall they are okay, but I think there should be some things changed/added or settled in another way as you will see in the following approach, why.
(I will try to make it in a good understandable english and apologize my self if it is not or contains misstakes)

So, let me show you what I have.

The "Taiko Specific Map Guidelines"
1. I noticed that some rules in this guidelines(e.g. HP Drain, Finish Notes) are not fiting anymore to what you guys have decided together and that many Taiko players think, this guidelines are "rules", but in many cases it is said "recommended" or "should be...", so it is I think clear, that we have much more space for mapping as most people thing we have.

About the first point you will find more information in the comming section(3.) I have made.
About the second point I can just say, that we should avoid to show this gudelines as "rules" and try to explain new mappers that they can actually just learn how to map right in this gudeline and that they don't need to follow everything, like for example: OD 7, HP Drain 7.

2. Maybe I'm overtaking it or got the wrong few in the following sentence, but I think also - I'm sure there are more aspects - due to this, people are going a bit too far with the generel ranking criterias because, it seams like that in more and more cases it is not anymore importand, how much a map makes fun. It is more importand right now, how rankable it is.
Unclear contact like in IRC or so: ,,You can't do that, it break the rules!" makes the people worry about there maps. But which 'rules'? Dosen't it makes in this way much more fun as following the not existing 'rules'? It is better when new mappers dosen't make any werid things, but for experience mapper it should be possible enought to make some other things which are also rankable/playable enough without geting the crittic ,,You don't follow the rule".
People should say instead for example: ,,This speadpart is really not fitign to the music; to the part".

My point is easy: Why should be something unrankable (when it is playable and really fun) because it dosen't following this not existing 'rules'?
This guidelines should be seen as guidelines, while modding should be something to do with "playable - not playable // looks objective good // looks not good, etc.".
(These guidelines are based on authentic Taiko no Tatsujin games and should be followed in order to produce a fun and enjoyable taiko specific map.) - Many people forgot that.

I don't say it should be like that, it's just my personal view. I could be in some points wrong, but some should be right.
Anyway, let's go to the next section, the guidelines them self. There you will see some of my opinions and questions.


3. The Guidelines them self

  1. Difficulty Settings and Song Setup:
    Is it really true, that in TnT the ratio to HP Drain and OD, 7 and 7 is? This seams really high and it didn't felt in the TnT AC like this.
    Didn't saw any discussion about this. Edit: And also, every song have an own HP/OD that fits to it. -> Considering BPM and rightness of offset/ offset/BPM changes
  2. Custom combo colours:
    Maybe it should be written down that same coulour choose like in gameplay is prefered? Since it is harder or makes the quality of modding lower because of no visual view. Edit: It's also easier for Taiko modders in this way to mod the Taiko map.
  3. Slider Velocity
    1.5 and 1.6 may be tolerable in some cases with a slower BPM.
    I would more say, the visual view is more importand then the technically. Dose someone like 1/4,1/5,1/6 or not is just a personal view.
    So the case with a slower BPM is just one reason.
  4. Finish Notes

    lepidopodus wrote:

    Seems most mappers don't like this so let's just say 'don't use Big Notes in 1/4 streams in SV=1.4.' Anyway we need to set exact limitation, as mappers sometimes set SV other than 1.4.
    Mh, I think it dosen't matter, how many mappers it like or not. More significant is how usefull it is in some cases. Edit: Short: Still no limitation choosen.

    It happens often that in a song a part appear which follows the beat oooooooO(8 notes), but we need to map like oooooo O (6+1 note).
    I say this makes the ->Insert Ozzy's word here: flow<- unstable and sounds sometimes weird too. I want to show you a good example:
    AU - Infinite of Nuclear Fusion[Taiko Oni]
    ^ The climaxx sounds are hearable in the kkkkddddK(01:11:051). If I would change it now to kkkkddddk it would make the ...K K... meaningless and would be weird played as kkkkddddk K one. Also don't forget how it sounds.

    Also there is in 01:33:251 a kkD one, but it is playable because you see the big don in the speed part coming, so you can act also better as when it is directly at the stream.
    These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour.
    For a player it is also possible to play a big hitcircle in a end of a stream and if this player can't do it, he can just play it as a small one.

    Zekira wrote:

    Finish Notes in 1/4 streams: NO, unless you're going for something special.
    I think this regulation fits really good, since it said that it should be not used, but in special things okay is. Like climaxx timelines, or linear map styles (...K K...ddddK K...).
    About Dddddddd I can say, this should be not used since, the big don is overlapping the first notes.
    dddddddD has not this problem, because the big don has been overlapped just a bit by the small don's.
  5. Kiai Time
    Kiai (a concept based on Taiko no Tatsujin's "go go time") sections are only to be used for the chorus(es) of a song. Do not use short "flashes" of kiai like you might use in an osu! standard map. The maximum number of kiai sections to be used in a taiko specific map is 3.
    I think this one is also a bit unclear. Songs with a lenght over 4min have sometimes 4 kiai times and it is not wrong to use a kiai time also in another climax time. -> Often usefull in ends of opera songs with there loud imposand insturments.
    I would say to write down ,,unless it is going for something special.", too.
  6. Spinners
    Um, I'm honest. I saw also some cases with oooooooo(spinner) which have fit good, but this is to rare to change it now... hmpf.
    Edit: Oh, has been allready mentioned by Rokodo.
  7. Break Sections
    Taiko specific maps should not contain any break sections whatsoever.

    lepidopodus wrote:

    Break Sections: 'We recommend not to use it, unless the song is long and have small breaks.', looks fair?
  8. Drumrolls
    Looks fine how it is, but what do you think about drumrolls after streams? Also in special moments allowed?
  9. Overlapped notes by BPM Changes:
    Mh, that's a real hard question I'm also thinking about... there are really cases, which are okay, but to spam it is is really not good and useless. It makes the map sometimes more interesting and a miss dosen't mean that a map is now bad because, it could be not fc'd in the first play.
  10. Edit:Audio of hitcircles
    - The normal use should be ,,Normal", not ,,soft" because, the option ,,soft" makes the hitcircles quite.
    - The sound of the hircircles should be at least a bit loder then the music it self?

That's it for now from me. Really long, mh?
So, what do you think about some points and my opinion from beginning?

Edit: Because of playable -> rankable. Don't get it wrong, it should be playable for most people, not like 1/8 notes.
Last edited by OnosakiHito , edited 5 times in total.
Luna
2,354 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna
Just wanted to ask what the general guidelines are for Muzukashii diffs on maps that use both 1/4 and 1/3 snap.
I think I remember authentic maps where 1/3 streams of 6 are used (dddddd or kkkkkk) alongside the generic 1/4 triplets (ddd/kkk) but I'm not really sure and can't remember what maps I'm thinking of so I'm not able to check it myself~
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
1/4 finishes never
1.4 always
breaks if it fits
song setup, who cares
drum rolls for silly things, scarce use
spinners as would be used in TnT
overlaps, no it's stupid
kiai, choruses or emphasis sections

hmph. how it should be.
Backfire
3,205 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire
I used 1.0 for cosmos, and no one complained :x
Yuzeyun
7,646 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun

OzzyOzrock wrote:

Song setup, who cares
ok

brb 10/5/5/10

at 99.832BPM

Song setup should be close to authentic, 5 to 7 are the most popular (I am mapping with 6 now, instead of 5)

1.4 if not too fast nor too slow (TSUPSEUDOGAMUSH is in 1.4 and is terribly played. I barely read the notes :/)
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus

OnosakiHito wrote:

Mh, I think it dosen't matter, how many mappers it like or not.
You don't really think that mappers and players are totally seperated, do you. Most of them are also top-rankers(except guys like me), you know.

Also I never enforced this to other mappers and players. This so called 'guidelines' might be the sole regulation that exists for now, but those were never official (and this is why I always end up saying 'I can't enforce anything to them'), but people usually tend to follow this. Why? who knows?
(At least this can be shown as consensus by people outside Taiko community, though.)

Try to gather some more guys if you want to make consensus? Even I can't say something like 'Most of mappers/players blahblahblah' before clarification in here.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito

lepidopodus wrote:

OnosakiHito wrote:

Mh, I think it dosen't matter, how many mappers it like or not.
You don't really think that mappers and players are totally seperated, do you. Most of them are also top-rankers(except guys like me), you know.
You should know that I don't think in this way... but as I said before, isn't it more importand what is technically - good - possible? It is not a small tribute to exclude patterns and can make sometimes a part a bit weird. It would give mapping a little new dimension again because, people are "allowed" to use one~two patterns more.
And people answering with ,,no" without reason makes me a bit suspicious.

lepidopodus wrote:

Also I never enforced this to other mappers and players. This so called 'guidelines' might be the sole regulation that exists for now, but those were never official (and this is why I always end up saying 'I can't enforce anything to them'), but people usually tend to follow this. Why? who knows?
(At least this can be shown as consensus by people outside Taiko community, though.)
Uh... maybe I explained it a bit wrong/not understandable. But I didn't spoke about you guys who made this 'gudelines', also not that you enforced to the players.
More about the whole Taiko community where some players/mappers got it probably wrong. Like you said: (At least this can be shown as consensus by people outside Taiko community, though.)
I don't know how many and who could read that what I have wrote down, but it is directed to all people in this community since I noticed that the last months.

lepidopodus wrote:

Try to gather some more guys if you want to make consensus? Even I can't say something like 'Most of mappers/players blahblahblah' before clarification in here.
I said just one time "many" and I used it, based on what I saw in the last month(also in multiplayer).


Hum... I'm a bit sad about this answer, to be honest(yeah I can't demand more). Right now I just got the answer to try to get maybe more people, but for what...?
The first point was just a generel fact point I noticed and I'm sure people who want to say something about it(like noticed it too) will post something in this thread.

But the second point dosen't need 'more people' for now, since I propose some things and asking why some guidelines are changed without any discussion(maybe I need to wait for Zekira,aquabluu, Crystal?). People will find this thread and post somethng when they want.
If something really needs more people for a better discussion and clarfication, sure, I will do it. But for now we are in the 'opinion-phase', right?

Or people maybe just don't want to discuss, then I don't know what to say. Yep.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
I don't really interested since I'm quite busy these days (better to say that I'm too busy to give some attension on this) so nobody stops you to initiate the discussion. Too be honest I don't even get the exact point, lol.

You can make the map whatever you want, but if you are using something prohibitted without any discussion, you will face some kind of resistance since they don't think it is the right way. So You need to persuade them first. The problem is, this kind of discussion does not always follow logical way. Even if you think something is logical and actually it is, but if it is disliked or thought as wrong by community, that can't be used until those guys change their thoughts since it's a game, not a science or something.

Nah I guess I don't need to intervene this. I have no authority.

Be careful though, some kind of prejudice can block your effort to psuade them.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Just see it as opinion for the gudeliness then, maybe the first sentence is confusing too much. But yes, I can understand that you have no time, so, maybe the best would be to wait then for more opinions.
since it's a game, not a science or something.
Uuh... I think thats probably right what you say.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Well, I guess you need to specify what exactly you think it needs to be change. Curntly you are talking about too many things, and that's quite confusing to me.
Oh, and something written by rokodo in 1st page isn't same with our agreement. Those are his thoughts, though it looks quite similar with current so called 'guidelines'. *goes back to study*
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Some features that we considered as 'rules' are broken by Namco itself. Whatever.
Mentalism1
113 posts
Joined April 2011
Mentalism1
thank you
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito

lepidopodus wrote:

Some features that we considered as 'rules' are broken by Namco itself. Whatever.
Then let's change finnaly this - in some cases - stupid guidelines and make them to real rules, which makes more sense. It still gets me into nervs.
This gives us also benefits in the future! - I just want to remember: As I know and heard, peppy said long time ago that we could get some more rights if we would finnaly have real and stable rules.
Or let's make a new Taiko mapping Thread if Rokodo is not willing to change it(or if he have no time, seams more to be that case).

Going to open a discussion thread about this soon since we shouldn't be the only one who consider this.

Edit: Made some changes in this post, (edits): viewtopic.php?p=1102490#p1102490
Also improved the grammer for better understanding.
Yuzeyun
7,646 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
@^ You should change the Slider Velocity part. For HIGHER BPM (Above BPM 260), 1,4 is NOT recommended. Using 0,70 should be allowed on songs above BPM 300, tho. I once mapped a song at 300+ BPM with SV 1.4 and barely read the notes. (0,35 above 600 and so on)
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
@Gezo: At the moment I'm writing down the Taiko rules and I'm at point Slider Velocity. That's what I wrote:

  1. Slider Velocity
    The Slider Velocitys, 1.40 and 1.60 should be used(1.40 is the standard slider velocity that is recommended to be used in taiko specific maps while 1.60 is the standart slider velocity for slower BPM songs).
    Exeptions: Lower slider velocitys are allowed to be used in songs with a really high BPM above 260~280. Recommended SV is 1.20 for this. It also depends on how readable the notes are, in their current position.
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/130800 BPM 270 with SV 1.40 is still readable since there are not many notes. Maps with more notes are not recommended since even 1.20 is allready stucked a bit.

Well, BPM 300... there was no case in this way for ranking. The only thing we can say is using 1/4 notes with SV 1.20 or smaller or taking half of the BPM 150. Other things are allready unrankable for a Taiko diff..

(Don't forget, the rules are for maps which are dedicated to the ranked modus. offline maps are another category)
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