Chris wrote:

that really doesn't make sense, mainly what I read is them asking for an explanation so they weren't blindly following Two which is more than reasonable. "trust me cause I say so" isn't exactly the most convincing argument ever

I fail to see how they are doing anything but pointing out that Two has explained nothing in this supposed master plan

also how can you even claim Mashley is doing anything when it's Two asking him to use his hider ability on him, which could potentially end in his death

Like I said, maybe attacking isn't the right word.

After a gambit like that, and in addition to the hints that two's already given towards what he can do, it's better IMO to go ahead and have Mash hide behind Two. Having two explain more when it will just be detremental to town with an explanation is stupid. (Yes, I believe him when he says that.)

But yknow, I've noticed very few people think even near to the same way that I do on these forums. Maybe trying to explain it is pointless. I've just noticed that any time I pull a gambit large like that (which to my memory has never been when I'm mafia), one of the people attacking me (or more) has always been mafia. Also, I tend to fail to explain it properly enough to those who don't believe me (Though I'm not sure if this applied with any of my gambits in WWG in the past.).

It's simple, just have mashley formally agree to hide behind me tonight. If he's telling the truth then I won't die. If I die without taking him with me, he's mafia. If neither of us die, I'm town. Because of that, if he rejects this he's mafia.

Also, if you are opposed to such a pro-town idea, you are mafia as well. See how fun this is?

Two wrote:

It's simple, just have mashley formally agree to hide behind me tonight. If he's telling the truth then I won't die. If I die without taking him with me, he's mafia. If neither of us die, I'm town. Because of that, if he rejects this he's mafia.

Also, if you are opposed to such a pro-town idea, you are mafia as well. See how fun this is?

It's up to Mashley in the end but personally I don't see why not when you explain it like that. If he dies and you don't, you're getting lynched D2 anyways.

though I'm sure you know that so it's kinda awkward to even consider you're mafia as a 1:1 trade is always beneficial to town

Fine, but I want you to roleclaim and explain all of this Day 2. Now can we get back to discussing the lynch?

KRZY was lurking through all of this

why not?

unvote, vote: KRZY

So maf can't kill Mash tonight. If Mash dies regardless, Two is clearly maf, and we lynch him. If they kill Two, Mash will die with him if town and Mash will get lynched the next day if he survives. Two is implying he can't die overnight, which might be his role (BP?) or an entirely WIFOM claim to survive the night.

If neither of them die, Mash either didn't visit maf-Two and is an idiot, or visited Two and he is confirmed town. Pretty cool.

that was an "am I reading this right post" btw, I'm not Capt. Obvious II.

also: vote: Jinx thanks someone else for voting him else it'd be omgus. I liked what was brought up about Salvage cause it sounded like scumtalk to me. He's new, and newbies often (at least to my experience) have jack idea what's going on or what to say. Salv's input will be about as extensive as it was today I'm afraid. Not certain enough to vote [redacted because I forgot who brought it up. Lyby?] over it though and JInx is scummier in my eyes.

Ok so here are the possibilities if Mashley agrees to hide behind Two:

Neither dies: This means either both are town OR both are mafia. Likely the former.
Only Mashley dies: Two is mafia
Only Two dies: Mashley is lying about role or his agreement to hide (which means probably mafia)
Both die: Both are town and mafia got a free double kill. If there is a watcher, he can watch Two and determine who killed him.

To add to this, Mashley can psuedo-cop on later dates in the same way by hiding behind people to confirm them as town.

The only problem is, how does Hider interact with roleblocking? In most games, Hider takes priority over Roleblocking, so it's likely to be that way here as well.

Lybydose wrote:

Ok so here are the possibilities if Mashley agrees to hide behind Two:

Neither dies: This means either both are town OR both are mafia. Likely the former.

it doesn't necessarily mean that both of us are town, just means that I'm town since he supposedly didn't die from hiding behind me

Still though this strategy isn't airtight. He's not counting a busdriver or a roleblocker or a strongman to take them both down regardless of Two's apparent nightkill immunity(?) Heck if Lilac and pieguy got fancy there might be an interceptor around.

oh whoops nvm about roleblocker if Lyby says Hider goes first in natural order.

mod: confirm please. also votecount?

Wojjan wrote:

Still though this strategy isn't airtight. He's not counting a busdriver or a roleblocker or a strongman to take them both down regardless of Two's apparent nightkill immunity(?) Heck if Lilac and pieguy got fancy there might be an interceptor around.

In most games, Hiding takes priority over everything except Copying (this includes bussing and blocking). Furthermore, strongman can't directly target a Hider since it trumps even that.

mod: can we get an updated vote count?

Keeping my vote on Salvage for now thanks to his blatant OMGUS on my one vote.

I meant strongman on Two, since he seems to imply that he's somehow making it through the night. Also, I'm pretty sure Hiding never took privilege over busdriving. mod: confirm that too.

ok well, bus drivers are usually town. If you're a bus driver don't be stupid and swap Two with anyone.

doublepost instead of editing

In natural order resolution you find an action that cannot be modified by another action and resolve that first. Unfortunately both Hider and Bus Drive would be dependent on each other (if hider resolves first, bus fails. if bus resolves first, hider target changes). On the mafia wiki page, the suggested order is hider first, then bus.

Hider takes priority over everything in my games (Except strongman, but I use strongman abnormally and stronger than the role normally is.)

As for what this game is doing? No clue.

Wojjan wrote:

mod: confirm please.

Hiding takes priority over busdriving. Hiders cannot be roleblocked, but bus drivers can.

also votecount?

Votecount:

JInxyjem (4) - Mashley, 0_o, Wojjan, bmin11
Salvage (2) - Lybydose, Rolled
Lybydose (2) - animask, Salvage
Wojjan (2) - jinxyjem, KRZY
KRZY (1) - Two
Gabi (1) - akrolsmir
Raging Bull (1) - Gabi

Vote: Quaraezha

has literally contributed nothing other than a vote on Two, and then an unvote

Gabi has done the same, nothing but a random vote


I really don't want to go through and check all 18 people so someone do it for me please

Prod everyone who didn't post in the last 24 hours please , specially Gabi.



I find Gabi's extreme lurking pretty suspicious , but i'd like to hear what he has to say first.

prod: Gabi

People who strike me as inactive:

animask
Rantai
Q
bmin11
Raging Bull
Gabi
KRZY

If you resent this categorization please do speak up.

ninja'd. It might be helpful to note that Gabi's the only one who hasn't spoken in 24 hours.

Oh , well .. i didn't notice that sorry D:

I'm not inactive ._. I just don't know what to say really.

Two wrote:

It's simple, just have mashley formally agree to hide behind me tonight. If he's telling the truth then I won't die. If I die without

Also how come if Mashley hides behind two, two won't die?

I've posted everything I wanted to say, which were...

1. Deaf is bull shit (which it was)

2. Agree on Mashley hiding behind Two and all those possibilities

3. Why seek for Watcher on D1?


I just didn't felt like pointing it out again as they were obvious/had no impact or significant point out on others.

Posting here before i go to sleep.

That said, i'm going to unvote. Will continue when i wake up tomorrow

Everyone seems to be trying to guess roles here and talk about them. There isn't really much going on besides that besides Two and his odd roleclaim. (I just skimmed those other posts that seemed to talk about roles people could have.) I think some of the mafia may be the ones that are discussing about how roles work because they have a better understanding of what the roles could be like.

Always when I'm sleeping.

Give me a bit, 8 pages popped up out of no where.

Heh I figured that restriction was silly.

I see no reason for Two to expose himself as a mafia if Mashley is the hider (ie Mashley dies solo tonight), leading me to believe, at the very least, he's not mafia (going either town or independent). Call it whatever you want but I also don't believe both are mafia out to scheme the big plan.

^ That goes from the perspective of me if I were playing in that position. Seems idiotic to expose yourself like that, if mafia.

I don't see why lurking all day without posting anything is suspicious. I just keep this page open all the time, that is all.

Unvote

Alright, back from school, and read the few pages back.
One: I still don't believe random 1-votes are going to do jack in scum-hunting, especially after 1 real day has gone over without any scummy action. Asking us to keep the useless votes there made me feel that wojjan is mafia and making us keep the votes away from his mafia buddies.
Two: I agree with Rantai; Two exposing himself as mafia just to kill Mashley really doesn't sound like something he would do.

Votecount: (Since I'm back...)

JInxyjem (4) - Mashley, 0_o, Wojjan, bmin11
Salvage (2) - Lybydose, Rolled
Lybydose (2) - animask, Salvage
Wojjan (1) - Jinxyjem
KRZY (1) - Two
Gabi (1) - akrolsmir
Quaraezha (1) - Chris

Not Voting: Rantai, Quaraezha, LadySuburu, Raging Bull, Gabi, KRZY. Deadline is in around 3 days.

I guess everyone is fine with letting people off the hook just because they said "there was nothing to say"?

Well, I'm not sure what to make of it.

On one hand you're right it's not helping town at all, on the other hand repeating what others say to 'say something' isn't too helpful either.

Though it would be nice to hear opinions.

I think we need to lynch someone who's inactive, they aren't bringing anything to the game anyways

Gabi wrote:

Posting here before i go to sleep.

That said, i'm going to unvote. Will continue when i wake up tomorrow

17 hours ago.

I don't really like the Lynch all Lurkers policy style play, but I've got nothing better right now and I've started to get a little annoyed by lurkers over the past few games.

Still, I'm going to reread over what we have in the thread and hope I find something.

LadySuburu wrote:

I don't really like the Lynch all Lurkers policy style play, but I've got nothing better right now and I've started to get a little annoyed by lurkers over the past few games.

Usually I wouldn't either, except the only thing that's happened so far is Two and Mashley's N1 plan.

No one has really talked about anything else other than Two's claim, which led to that.

It's pretty much the only option I can see, and even after calling most of these people out they've still yet to post

anyone willing to roleclaim? make this interesting please

unvote, vote KRZY

please don't tell me you're going to let this one slide

Two seems intent on getting me out of the frame.

Vote: Two

you seem intent on dying

since your two posts on this page are the most anti town things you can do

grats

why would you vote for two when they're basically confirmed town

How's Two confirmed town now? Wasn't his plan to make him so? .. Oh god Two how i envy you and your persuasion powers , people already trusting him already on d1, cool.

The fact that he concocted on his own a plan to make his alignment confirmed means that he has nothing to hide: tonight's plan will confirm two as either town or mafia, and a mafia member would avoid that attention.

vote: KRZY I mean what the hell. If you read that and aren't voting KRZY yet I'm gonna have Two shout at you a lot until you do.

Salvage wrote:

How's Two confirmed town now? Wasn't his plan to make him so? .. Oh god Two how i envy you and your persuasion powers , people already trusting him already on d1, cool.

Maybe confirmed was too strong of a word, but come D2 he should be.

assuming Mashley is hides behind him, and Mashley isn't Mafia and isn't lying about hider anyways

I doubt he is though

but it's possible they are both mafia lol, which is even more unlikely

Wojjan wrote:

I'm gonna have Two shout at you a lot until you do.

omg whyyyyy

whenever you rub against me like a cat I think you're mafia

Vote KRZY
you mad that the one roleclaim is a role you can't nightkill?

KRZY wrote:

anyone willing to roleclaim? make this interesting please

Two wrote:

Anyone want to claim aux anyway? Just one person please.

I don't see much difference between these quotes. They were both asking for a role claim if we go to the basis. Ofcourse, Two shows better intention by saying "just one person please", but you can't entirely say KRZY's would be anti-town move as you guys were pressuring the fuck out of us as if we were students who could not finish their homework. Or do you guys seriously need more posts saying "Ya I agree" with a wall of texts? Or do you think you can force a good idea by wagging the person's neck like you guys did? (and calling that as a pro-town actions as well). I think you guys are overreacting against lurkers for D1 while there are nothing but few to talk about.


That's that. Can't lie that OMGUS vote looked awfully terrible. I'll vote after he posts something he would want to say about his actions

Unvote for this useless RV I sticked with.

hi gabi do a trick
come on boy do a trick

vote : Gabi


Yeah , just look at the thread and keep lurkin.

Salvage wrote:

How's Two confirmed town now? Wasn't his plan to make him so? .. Oh god Two how i envy you and your persuasion powers , people already trusting him already on d1, cool.

are you even reading the thread? Two is not actually confirmed town right now, but will either be confirmed mafia or town after the first night. Since it would be utterly stupid for a mafia to do such a gambit that would confirm him as mafia like that, chances are very high that he is town.

So basically anyone attacking or questioning Two right now is not acting in the town's best interests.

unvote, vote: KRZY

FoS: Salvage

Lybydose wrote:

Salvage wrote:

How's Two confirmed town now? Wasn't his plan to make him so? .. Oh god Two how i envy you and your persuasion powers , people already trusting him already on d1, cool.

are you even reading the thread? Two is not actually confirmed town right now, but will either be confirmed mafia or town after the first night. Since it would be utterly stupid for a mafia to do such a gambit that would confirm him as mafia like that, chances are very high that he is town.

are you even reading my posts? Chris said "Why vote for two if he's confirmed town" , and he is not confirmed town as i stated in my post , he could be tommorrow as he couldn't be it (and yes it sounds stupid to make such a plan being mafia but who knows) , i was just correcting Chris .. i really don't understand your way to think Lyby , pay more attention pls.

Lybydose wrote:

So basically anyone attacking or questioning Two right now is not acting in the town's best interests.

Well no because they could technically both be mafia. Unless the mod pops in to say "yo sup Two is town" you don't take that for granted.

I'm not saying he isn't though. Two is so protown he can't pro any harder. Just saying that definitely in Salvage's case I'm gonna give him the benefit of being a maybe-skeptic.

Nothing much too say although I do like to see Two explain what bmin quoted.

Vote: KRZY

Not sure about editing posts...so

FoS:Gabi Saw him lurking for like 10 minutes here and still no posts ._.

Wojjan wrote:

hi gabi do a trick
come on boy do a trick

I don't want to. If Two is protown right now, and KRZY is showing signs of him being anti-town my vote will have to go for him.

Vote : KRZY

Votecount:

KRZY (5) - Two, Wojjan, Mashley, Lybydose, Gabi
Gabi (3) - akrolsmir, Salvage, Raging Bull
Lybydose (2) - animask, Salvage
JInxyjem (1) - 0_o
Wojjan (1) - Jinxyjem
Quaraezha (1) - Chris
Two (1) - KRZY
Salvage (1) - Rolled

Not Voting: Rantai, Quaraezha, LadySuburu.

what , oh sorry


unvote Lybydose


Didn't realize i had a vote already.

unvote, Vote Gabi

posts again and still doesn't even bother to do anything but vote, wow

krzy actually has 6 votes right

Voting KRZY as well. Just bandwagoning since I'm always here late.

One more 1500 word paper due this week zzzzzz

actually unvote. I want to give him a chance to respond without potentially hammering. Not sure how many hours are left in the day at all really.

FoS KRZY, though.

Chris wrote:

unvote, Vote Gabi

posts again and still doesn't even bother to do anything but vote, wow

What exactly do you expect me to do except for voting?

generate discussion

for example, you can point out any observations you've made

attack people

defend people

speculate about the setup

the possibilities are endless

Gabi wrote:

What exactly do you expect me to do except for voting?

more than this

hi

Vote : Raging Bull

THEN

Posting here before i go to sleep.

That said, i'm going to unvote. Will continue when i wake up tomorrow

THEN

I don't want to. If Two is protown right now, and KRZY is showing signs of him being anti-town my vote will have to go for him.

Vote : KRZY

post your thoughts/opinions on stuff, every post you've made has just been to vote or unvote, have you even read the thread?

Ah well, i have to admit this is my first mafia game, i didn't think people would be so agressive on the first day. But at the moment i dont really have anything to add and my vote stays where it is. Allthough i would like to see KRZY defend himself.

And yes i have read the thread.

Yeah , the it's my first game thing doesn't really work here , it's my first game also and i'm not lurking the shit out of the thread , if you really are town then help town , don't act like mafia or u'll be voted as such.

Actually it's my second game , whatever.

Votecount:

KRZY (6) - Two, Wojjan, Mashley, Lybydose, Raging Bull, Gabi
Gabi (3) - akrolsmir, Salvage, Chris
JInxyjem (1) - 0_o
Salvage (1) - Rolled
Lybydose (1) - animask
Wojjan (1) - Jinxyjem
Two (1) - KRZY

10 votes are required to lynch.

Sorry, I think I've overcommitted myself with my current workload, I'm gonna drop out of this one.

gogogo Kiddo-kun

Waiting for a confirmation from Kiddo-kun...

I'm basically waiting for KRZY to respond, but I'm kinda doubting he will at this point.

the second bandwagon forming kind of makes me think we hit oil

why's that i'd like to hear smart two.

Gabi wrote:

I don't want to. If Two is protown right now, and KRZY is showing signs of him being anti-town my vote will have to go for him.
Vote : KRZY

Oh come on bandwagon harder.

Gabi wrote:

Ah well, i have to admit this is my first mafia game, i didn't think people would be so agressive on the first day. But at the moment i dont really have anything to add and my vote stays where it is. Allthough i would like to see KRZY defend himself.

Town doesn't win by being passive.

I'll keep my vote where it is, though if KRZY continues to remain silent I'll probably have to switch.

Salvage wrote:

why's that i'd like to hear smart two.

mafia logic: "oh shit they're bandwagoning one of our members quick bandwagon someone else they'll never know"

So you're saying that Gabi's playstyle isn't scummy at all? .. i personally voted him cause i find it way scummier than KRZY .. i'm not saying he's post isn't scummy at all cause it kinda is , but Gabi doesn't even want to help town and it's posting useless stuff, that's my reason atleast.

no I never said that, but KRZY is scummier than Gabi at the moment

Lybydose wrote:

mafia logic: "oh shit they're bandwagoning one of our members quick bandwagon someone else they'll never know"

it also works the other way, "oh look a bandwagon is forming let's hop on it"

I'm waiting for krzy to respond like everybody else, the only thing that struck me as odd is everyone instantly jumping on the bandwagon after Two voted for them <-- trying to associate themselves with the most confirmed town

also can we get a correct votecount cause both of the last ones have been wrong~

really? o.o // I've gone through everything twice and that votecount seems right. I probably just suck at hosting = =

Mod: How much time is left?

I'd say wait at least 24 hours (if there is 24 hours left) from his (KRZY) last post before assuming he won't post again. I've been in plenty of situations where I post right before sleeping/going to uni etc then wake up/come back to find that stupid choices have been made.

Vote: Salvage

Unneeded aggression towards newbie lurkers (seriously there is a difference between pressure to get them into a productive state and "I'm better than you" attitudes) and an omgus vote that seemed to just slide under the table. Now, you may disagree with me but I really don't like the way you're posting.

*useless post*

Also: Users browsing this forum: Rantai and 22 guests

Oh come on guys. I might as well point everyone who doesn't post as lurkers

Edit: Friendly jab at the invisible browsing mode.

Rantai wrote:

*useless post*

Also: Users browsing this forum: Rantai and 22 guests

Oh come on guys. I might as well point everyone who doesn't post as lurkers

Completely unrelated to the game:

Users browsing this forum: Rantai and 33 guests

Wut.

Is there a storm of some sort brewing?

Uhhh. They're all gone.

Users browsing this forum: Raging Bull and 0 guests

Well, KRZY has some explaining to do, and Gabi, well, he's new but I do expect some opinions from him soon.

I'll decide when KRZY explains his actions, so for now unvote

I'm think there's around two days left. According to pieguy, anyway.

@Rantai : I'm sorry , seems like i'm just building my playstyle and i'm being influenced by Two a lot D:

As of this post there is 37:58 left

Quaraezha wrote:

What are the vote countss?
Also, away from home, so no internet.
Currently at Internet Cafe

usually even at the Internet Cafe you can click the previous page(s) and read the vote count

I'll give KRZY until the end of the day to say ANYTHING before he gets my vote

if he doesn't he's worse than Gabi because at least they respond

lol sorry had a calc exam today and was preparing for that for the past day. You can ask bmin and he will confirm that I was absent from #korean all day yesterday also.

lemme post something in a moment



edit: ok here goes.

KRZY's view of events

1. Two played a strong card, which would confirm him as either a town or a mafia after N1.

2. The general consensus (well, not general, but the general expressed consensus) was that Two was town. (This, as a couple of people have explained, is because if Two was mafia, he wouldn't do such a risky thing.)

3. I was generally bored by the lack of progress after Two and Mashley, and ask for a roleclaim.

4. Somehow that makes me very Mafia, and Two votes for me.

5. Here I throw a bait, voting for Two and thinking the first person to really actively jump on the would-be bandwagon started by Two is likely to be Mafia, willing to get an easy free lynch on D1.

6. Then I figure out that you don't have to be Mafia to start the bandwagon; after all, I look so much like the Mafia by voting Two. Bait was too strong to be called a bait anymore.

7. Shit goes wrong.



I know this sounds like the classic "cool story bro" instance, but that's what happened in my point of view. I'm not a particularly skilled Mafia game player, and I still don't understand why asking for that roleclaim made Two vote for me. But I do understand one thing: town, and I, have a better chance of winning if one of its members is not lynched D1.

I also don't understand why lurking and saying nothing is that bad of a thing to do. Maybe it's because being passive doesn't help at all?

Now my course of action would be to vote whoever really jumped quick on the bandwagon, because

5. Here I throw a bait, voting for Two and thinking the first person to really actively jump on the would-be bandwagon started by Two is likely to be Mafia, willing to get an easy free lynch on D1.

but there is so many :S

Unvote for now.

hard to believe that you were just baiting mafia when you, right before that, were asking people to harm town's chances by roleclaiming

not to mention that your vote for me seemed much more reactionary than pre-meditated

Two wrote:

when you, right before that, were asking people to harm town's chances by roleclaiming

Yes this is the part where I don't understand, why does asking to roleclaim harm the town's chances?

someone else can take the reigns for that one, for I am far too lazy

People who roleclaim shouldn't do so unless they can find a way to work around getting nightkilled. If someone claims cop on D1, without a doc he'll be sure to go N1.