Mi hai chiesto in #italian di scrivere qui cosa ne pensavo, quindi eccomi!! Ti ho già spiegato più o meno il problema in-game, che riguarda il timing. L'offset del primo timing point è a 00:02:114 -, quindi inizia dalla voce. Cosa che, come ti ho già spiegato, non è proprio corretta, non perché non sia giusto mappare seguendo la voce, ma perché non c'è una base sotto, quindi credo tu debba partire mappando dalla base strumentale (che parte a 00:02:971 -), in modo da essere coerente anche con tutto il resto della mappa! Facendo così, puoi eliminare tranquillamente il timing point a 00:35:550 -, dato che non serve. In più, il kiai che hai fatto iniziare a 01:18:921 - sarebbe meglio farlo partire a 01:19:772 -, sempre per seguire la base!
Visual stuff visual spacing is pretty dense, for example - 00:02:114 (1,2,3,4) - I'd make the visual spacing here consistent. I know you're trying to keep to a specific DS, but at this SR the nominal difference in DS is going to be pretty inconsequential when playing the map. Could even be something like this https://i.imgur.com/J4uP95q.png
Thank you for the screenshot-suggestion! I was struggling really hard while mapping the first part of the song. You can see how the notes overlap, and that was not something i intended to do. In the following days i'll work on finding the "perfect distance" for a slow part!
I'll mark as resolved when the change actually happen!
00:02:114 (1,2,3) [until 00:13:943 (5)]- would recommend simplifying the rhythm more to differentiate it from the more intense section
Example: https://gyazo.com/967b9c6b751d5d9f7663ac73947e4baa
Candidates for the "transformation" into 1/1 sliders would be:
00:02:286 (2,3) -
00:03:658 (2,3) -
00:05:715 (3,4) -
00:07:772 (2,3) -
00:10:515 (2,3) -
Working on them, trying to find a good pattern.
I have troubles with lowering rhythm density here to be honest. the only one which made sense to change here 00:05:715 (3) - was this one. The other 1/2 sliders like 00:07:772 (2) - are supported by a guitar sound at 00:07:943 - which is too strong to be ignored imho.
The lack of music at 00:02:114 (1,2,3,4) - makes it so that having only Circle -> slider -> slider sounds bad to the hear, and 00:03:486 (1,2,3,4) - is a mirror of that combo (vocal wise), so it should be circle -> slider -> slider as well, ignoring strong guitar sound 00:03:829 - .
00:02:286 (2,3) - this kind of an overlap doesn't look too hot. Something like this should look better: https://i.imgur.com/WHlvf0c.png Or even this: https://i.imgur.com/YErNX0L.png
00:03:658 (2,3) - same thing here and 00:13:257 (1,2) - here.
00:05:715 (3,4,5) - personally feel like the spacing could be increased a bit. https://i.imgur.com/Jo7N0dQ.png
00:13:775 (3,4,5) - You could give this more spacing from 00:13:604 (2) - because this is the part of the song where the instruments really come in.
00:15:832 (1) - I don't like how this is stacked under the sliderend because it kills momentum when it's unnecessary. It also stands out as it's the only one I see; it would be fine if you had done it elsewhere. I'd suggest stacking this on 00:15:146 (4) -
I made that choise due to the singer "taking a break to breath", so i wanted to stop the flow there , just like i did 00:12:918 (9,10) - here.
Nonetheless i mapped it in a way that , if needed , i could simply move that note under 00:15:146 (4) - and it would still "work" !
Waiting for extra feedback on this one, since i am fine with both decisions to be honest!
i swear i can't hear anything. Basically changing the rhythm to a 4 notes stream -> slider?
Maybe with smaller DS than the big stream at 00:20:886 (1) - ?
00:18:229 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - wouldn't the rhythm be more like this
https://gyazo.com/73eea134cd425f9bf64c17558fbee297
00:20:889 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18) - Please break up the stream combos. You could put them in 3 sets of 4. I'd remove 00:21:918 (19) - since there's no drum there. About emphasizing the vocal, you could Ctrl+G 00:22:004 (1) - to break the flow of the stream.
Split the combo (as requested) into three combos ( 4 + 4 + 5).
I understand that you'd like to stay loyal to the song by removing 00:21:918 (5) - , but this is a case (in my opinion) of simplifing rhythm by overmapping, since it's not easy for the brain to switch from drum to voice so suddently. It is actually easier to play the stream like this, rather than breaking it up. If you have any more questions about it feel free to re-open this!
00:20:889 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - I think it would be better to nerf these streams by putting quick slider, the stream is too big for Insane
Map argumentation: The stream is part of a 4.77* map, with a 175BPM (pretty low if you compare it to average stream map bpm's) so it should not be a problem to play.
True argumentation: honestly if you hear the sounds, the artist beats on the same drum for 12 times. I overmapped the 13th just to make it easier to play. It would make no sense to split the same sound into 3 slider kicks or so when there is no call for it D:
Please if anything is still unclear let me know here or in PM.
00:21:828 (12) - if you listen carefully, you may notice that the stream actually ends somewhere here.
00:21:914 (13,15) - these two circles therefore are to be removed. Might just be me though...
It's not just you! As you pointed out:
00:21:829 (12) - stream ends
00:21:915 - no hittable sound
00:22:000 (13) - strong sound on this one (maybe a finish?)
00:22:086 - no hittable sound
Which means two circles "should" be removed. Should, because to play it without those two ticks actually feels awful. A beatmap is not only a way to map instruments, it can be an instrument itself. I feel like those two extra notes help getting a better feeling of the increasing intensity of the song right before the singer's "Oh-".
Nonetheless what you pointed out is right and i'll keep this topic OPEN for others to watch and comment about.
If anyone is interested on the matter try removing the circle and play for yourself, then comment here!
The stream actually ends at when the singer says "OOOOOOOOOHHH"
If you want to increase the singers intensity, you could gradually space the stream instead rather than putting an unnecessary circle [00:22:085 (15)]
And I don't think changing it to a stream leading to a jump going to 00:22:172 (1) would affect gameplay negatively
Done. Stream ends at the beginning of the "oh" 00:22:000 (1) - and follows with the already mapped pattern
00:22:346 (2,3,4,5) - This does not sound like it's mapped to anything, I would suggest a longer slider before the glitched vocals
00:23:372 (1,2,3,4,5) - could change to this to better reflect the singer's "O-O-O-O-O-O"
https://gyazo.com/50167f1ca6eb9387b7a4a9e83fa3c407
00:24:572 (5) - could extend into a 3/4 slider going to 00:24:915 (6) - to better represent the guitar
My favorite beatmap of all times had a break time exactly like this. I just loved it , and i love it today as well, be it an older map or a "newish" one.
This diff will not include mapping during that part of the song, but that does not mean that other diffs won't have it mapped either.
Unless it's 100% necessary to get a beatmap nomination, which i'm not going for, i won't be mapping this part in this specific difficulty.
I was ready to face criticism for this.
i agree with kobold here regarding the breaks. lots of missed opportunity with not mapping this. i can see as to why you didn't map this but, you're your own mapper! map the way you would not someone else! i know you want to live up to your favorite beatmap but if it's been done before then nothing will change.
If i've decided not to map it it's because i felt that choise fitted my "style" and my overall decisions the best. I fail to see those missed opportunities to be honest, but as i already posted before, this does not mean that i will not try, in a future difficulty for the map, to map said piece, and eventually swap this one as well.
This is one of my first maps and as such i want to experiment as much as i can while still mapping something i can enjoy playing in my free time! We'll see what happens, but my decision for now is to keep this part as a "break time". Thank you for your feedback and i hope you can understand ! /ᐠ. ퟑ.ᐟ\
00:35:550 (1) [until 00:46:178 (3)] - you could decrease spacing a bit or increase spacing of 00:46:521 (1) - 00:57:578 (9) since the latter's more intense
Hi! Thank you for taking your time to look at my map! Please note that i've a bunch of stuff i need to take care of IRL before i can dedicate myself to the map again. Furthermore i have ~66 mods to take care of, which isn't a light task and might take some time...
Don't worry though! I will be back on the map soon enough! ♥ Thank you for your patience, you didn't waste your time!
00:36:750 (6,7) - definitely would've separate these two sliders by increasing the spacing between 5 and 6-7 to emphasize vocals.
00:47:721 (6,7) - as well as here.
You are right.
Changes:
•I used this chance to increase the "base" spacing between 00:35:550 (1,2,3,4,5) - , from "0 squares" (basically almost overlapping) to 4 full squares (x1.1DS) to match the previous slower parts in the map.
•00:36:407 (5,6) - spacing between those two slightly increased, 00:37:092 (7) - now rotates in the opposite direction (visual spacing stays the same, actual spacing is the same as 00:36:407 (5,6) - )
•00:37:435 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - adjusted spacing and flow to better match the changes to the combo before this part.
•00:47:378 (5,6,7) - same changes as 00:36:407 (5,6,7) - . Not 100% sure about the 00:48:064 (7) - rotating in the opposite direction here. Might ctrl+g.
Thank you!
00:37:946 (5,6) - If you listen it almost sounds like the singer is taking a breath here, so you could map this as a 1/2 slider to represent that better.
00:37:775 (3,4,5,6) - The breath is "showed" by the lack of a single note.
00:40:518 (3,4,5,6,7) - the rhythm would go like this as it repeats often. For playability and repetition 00:43:261 (3,4,5,6) - follows the same "choise" as the first one, even though it could be mapped as 5 notes.
00:38:035 - Problematic sound here. It would be a full 5 * 1/4 rhythm, but the singer "breathes" right at 00:37:949 (5) - , that's why i decided to have a small gap there!
Moreover it feels better to play when paired with a similar rhythm 00:42:921 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -.
Yet again, let me know what you think!!
The slider placement is sometimes a bit iffy. 00:39:150 (5,6,7) - for here example you could try something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/13133210
00:40:521 (3,4,5,6,1) - no reason to have the spacing that is on-par with 00:20:886 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this stream, the song right now is rather calm compared to what it was during the stream.
00:40:864 (1,2) - could change to this to make both the drum and vocals use active rhythm
https://gyazo.com/6bb7d21238bcdccf160865b0af4253f9
00:40:864 (1) - slider ends on stronger sound than it started on. this leads you to place a circle on a very weak sound here 00:41:207 (2) - . moving this 00:40:864 (1) - to the big white tick should fix things and having an object here 00:40:864 should address the slider issue. you would also have to include a different type of 1/4 rhythm to account for 00:40:778 (6,7) - .
Hi! Thank you for taking your time to look at my map! Please note that i've a bunch of stuff i need to take care of IRL before i can dedicate myself to the map again. Furthermore i have ~66 mods to take care of, which isn't a light task and might take some time...
Don't worry though! I will be back on the map soon enough! ♥ Thank you for your patience! Your work will not go wasted i swear ;_;
at 00:41:892 (5) - i would prefer this kind of rhythm https://imgur.com/a/Uou2q3N that has clicking on the big white tick and percussion. just me though
Feels too wrong for me , but you have a good point. The slider end is pretty strong and reflects 00:41:721 (3) - as well. Might reconsider this in the future!
00:43:264 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3) - really like how you use symmetry here, perhaps you should be making more of these in the future.
Hi! Thank you a lot for the extensive modding , supported by screenshots to help me get an idea of what i should do! I wanted to let you know that i truly appreciate you taking some time to help me with this map!
I apology for the late reply, but i am not able to login anymore today, so i will have to take a look at your mods starting tomorrow!
00:43:264 (3,4,5,6) - this would become way too dense if i added a micro-stream right there. also 00:43:521 - is not as strong as 00:40:778 (6) - , so it can get ignored to avoid too dense rhythm!
i would get rid of 00:43:264 (3) - and replace 00:43:092 (2) - with a 1/2 slider because it feels more reflective of the music and reduces the rhythm density which feels a bit too high imo
00:43:435 (5) - you could have a kickslider at the end of the triple to account for the little ringing noise. you could make 00:43:778 (1,2) - kicksliders as well if you want to keep going with the ringing - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/13120694
00:46:178 (3) - could change to this to better represent the guitars
https://gyazo.com/72b9ae019b6d4a04ba3282bda0596dba
you need to distinct 00:46:178 (3) - from 00:45:492 (1,2) - because currently you arent reflecting the distinction the music is making
00:46:350 (2) - music differenciates here
00:46:178 (3) - this coincided with a "vocal" and a drum beat, so it makes sense to start the shift here. Changed it into circle -> triple -> circle slider to better show the distinction made by the music. Thank you for the input!
00:48:407 (1,2,3) - since the vocals are sort of fading here, you could change the rhythm to this to better reflect the guitar (again)
https://gyazo.com/d57f95738375c49fd8cbeecd0ac902b2
Although, not entirely sure if I hear the 1/4 rhythm there, but I'm quite certain about it
00:48:921 (3,1) - spacing between the circle and the slider end should increase. it emphasizes the vocal and the clap more and shows that the song changes - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/13120702
00:49:604 (3) - You could Ctrl+H this and move it back to emphasize the guitar riff here, then move 00:49:946 (4) - accordingly if you want to maintain the current spacing
00:51:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - could change again for the guitars
https://gyazo.com/79dae93dd453d71a8b1dffbf7257b9f5
Now whether or not there are 1/4 rhythms, not sure
Some flow issues like 00:51:492 (3,4,5,6,7,1) - doesn't play very well, you want (1) somewhere in front of the stream, for example. 01:25:092 (3,4,5,6,1) - this too 01:26:807 (5,6,7,1) - and this - the direction of the spaced triple doesn't matter that much imo, but if the note after it is at a sharp angle it feels super awkward to play
I kinda of enjoyed the idea of going "back" after the stream, but i'll do some experiments to improve the flow as much as i can.
Those spaced triple were a big pain for me while mapping the part. I want them to be spaced because we are in kiai time and they must feel different from the ones used before, but i've never mapped something like this.
I'll take a deeper look at those combos before marking as resolved.
Stream now matches its "twin" (00:40:521 (3,4,5,6) - ). Spacing decreased by 10% (DS x0.9) Please open this topic again if you feel like the distance is still too big. I wouldn't go under DS x0.8 though.
Please note that this stream should "Mimic" the previous one, so a change in DS on one would reflect on the other as well.
Thank you!
00:52:007 (1,2,3) - 00:51:150 (1,2,3) - 00:56:121 (7,8,1) - 01:01:607 (4,5,6) - A bit nitpicky, but i think these jumps would look better with constant spacing.
00:52:350 (3) - would prefer a triple leading into the slider to be consistent with how you use triples
00:53:550 (7) - distinct this from 00:52:864 (5,6) - as the vocalist is making a distinction here
i really recommend this rhythm https://imgur.com/a/BC2wcVD at 00:54:578 (4) - . because of how you prioritize vocals from 00:56:807 to 00:35:550 (1) - it just feels really weird to not follow the distinct percussion because having so many back to back sliders just doesnt feel rhythmically dense enough, it also limits object placement and thus musical reflection.
00:54:578 (11,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3) - you really should follow the percussion more closely during this sustained vocal. in the previous section just prior you focus on vocals. When the vocals disappear during the sustained vocal, you should focus on the percussion. This means that 00:54:578 (11,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3) - needs to be reworked because it's not following the percussion very well due clicking not occuring on the most important sounds. here's one viable rhythm option https://imgur.com/a/cYG1ncz starting at 00:54:235 (10) - .
Changed. I will work on the flow later. Also you suggested a slider at 00:56:807 (11) - despite it being consistent with the rest of the combo, a strong guitar sound starts at 00:56:978 (1) - , basically on the slider end, which is far too strong to ignore. This is why i went with 3 circles to end this part before the small stream!
00:56:121 (7,8,1,2) - again to better reflect the song
https://gyazo.com/ce989bb39b955a442920c19c2e2df65f
00:56:632 (9) - as discussed in IRC you can Ctrl+H this and move it back to it's current position to make it look better
00:57:321 (6,8) - really should make the distinction with the vocals here by using a different 1/4 rhythm. lumping it all in one stream doesnt reflect distinction in vocals in this case. also i dont believe the stream has enough support to begin here 00:57:064 (3) - . 1/4 sliders here 00:57:321 (6,8) - would work fine here, as for 00:57:064 (3,4,5) - it's your choice really but just dont have an object here 00:57:064 (3) - and you should be good
00:57:664 (1,2,3,4,5) - would recommend this sort of rhythm
https://gyazo.com/66a1b9be1532e6610f33b963c3d4186e
Same thing for the following similar sections, but just edit as necessary to follow any other instruments
00:57:664 (1) - ends on stronger sound than it started on. making 00:57:321 (6,8,1) - 1/4 sliders and placing a 1/2 slider on 00:57:835 is the best rhythm to follow
00:57:832 (1) - I would put more space between this circle and this stream 00:57:318 (3,4,5,6,7) - because it might not fit due to the speed the player has when he reaches this point. Probably putting it a little lower like this could work better https://gyazo.com/01d04edc4f7e171cd9e3810ec8200028
00:59:892 (1,2,3,4,1) - recommending a kind of weird rhythm, but
https://gyazo.com/396ba40f576601e8774f00aea32cc1f5
Since the drums go with that weird double tap sound
01:02:975 (1,2,3) - This pattern might fit better if you put it below this triple 01:02:632 (6,7,8) - Something like this https://gyazo.com/1614ca9ed99422190d4d0452c6d149e5
01:03:321 (3) - curving this slider so much actually hurts "aesthetics", so to speak. This way it looks better, slightly: https://i.imgur.com/TIqWcz4.png
01:06:750 (5,6,1) - you should be more clear with what you are following here. 01:07:092 (6) - ends on a really important sound and because it's being reflected through a sliderend, you cant reflect the distinction relative to 01:06:750 (5,1) -
01:08:464 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - not sure what you're doing with the rhythm here and going to the specifics would be lengthy, but
Would be better if you focused the active rhythm on the vocals while keeping passive rhythms to the drums (circles and slider heads on vocals and slider tails on drums)
Example for the first section [01:08:464 (1,2,3,4,5,1)]
https://gyazo.com/ac9ee1482b4fc31887a3ccbade0d2166
Just do something similar for the remaining sections
from 01:08:464 (1) - to 01:13:607 (4) - i would prefer more 1/2 slider rhythm followed by stacked circles 1/2 beats apart. alternating those two rhythms starting the odd beat works nicely. Also I'm almost 100% positive your timeline is not lined up properly and that you missed a metronome reset somewhere because a lot of the big white ticks and the odd beats aren't lining up with the music
01:08:807 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - don't know if you're aware of that or not, but you can make a perfect geometric shape by pressing ctrl+shift+D. This way you can make STARS. And TRIANGLES. Sometimes simple squares too.
01:14:292 (1,2) - rhythm should be like this if you want to follow both vocals and drums
https://gyazo.com/c5d1beb7a6867331999f8bfdb87fb3e3
01:17:035 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - there are triples here that you missed out on mapping. they feel stronger than the vocals so i suggest you do something like this - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/13120712
then you can slow down the slider at 01:18:235 (2) -
01:19:092 (3,5) - should've went for a simple symmetry here. Like this: https://i.imgur.com/6BVxxf1.png
01:19:607 (5) - slider ends on stronger sound than it started on. the slider ends on a sound that is begging to be clicked on. also it's common practice to ignore these vocals here 01:19:092 (3,4,5) - when all the instruments cut out at the peak of the buildup because you want the silence to contrast the loud and intense impact. Examples of map doing this silence thing is determination symphony. the only time you would only map those vocals is if they were very distinct sounds at an equal timing apart. An example is monstrata's tatoe which has a reverse slider for the tatoe vocal
01:19:950 (6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4) - I don't think there are any 1/4 rhythms throughout this entire section? If anyone can confirm pls do
01:22:346 (1) - I'd make this 2 circles because the slider ends on a really loud sound I feel should be actively clickable
01:23:718 (5) - I would Ctrl+G this, just a personal preference in order to keep it flowy, not a big deal if you leave it like that
01:23:718 (5) - the guitar sound is different from the others , so it should play differently and break the flow in my opinion. The other 4 sliders "fit" into a similar sound scheme ,but this one doesn't so it's best to have the flow broken there!
01:24:149 (2) - Only this one is "overmapped".
The sound 01:24:064 (1) - supports the note.
The sound at 01:24:235 (3,4,5) - supports a triple.
I wouldn't mark this as a problem, but i'll keep it here to see what other people think.
01:29:204 (6) - Doesn't look too good imo. Maybe something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/13330753
01:29:207 (9) - if you want, could become a 1/1 slider to really emphasise the strong vocals here
01:30:064 (5,6) - can't be too sure if there's 1/4 or not, but assuming there is, could change into a 1/4 slider instead since the drum on the blue tick isn't as prominent
On Hard, it would look something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/13330805 so similar for the Insane but with sliders
01:33:492 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - a very sudden increase of spacing, but I'm mostly concerned of the fact you've changed rhythm so much in this part. Plays rather awfully. Would definitely try to simplify the pattern by using 1/2 sliders.
The song shifts its rhythm as well. This combo is really similar (if not exactly the same?) as one used in one of my favorite beatmaps. I don't see a problem with the combo. If you do it once it plays rather smoothly and follows vocals exactly.
Thank you anyway for pointing this out. I might SLIGHTLY adjust the position, but the overall idea of the combo will remain.
I really suggest changing this. Introducing this '1/4 gaps between sliders of varying lengths' concept at the very end of the map is an idea to avoid. also this rhythm ignores the percussion and focuses on the vocals which is unrepresentative of the music when considering this is an insane diff imo
01:34:007 (3) - would recommend just leaving this as a circle
Becomes consistent with 01:34:692 (6) and much better to play tbh
Would also decrease spacing since this is a sudden rhythm change
01:35:378 (2,3,4,5,6) - would change to this to fit the vocals
https://gyazo.com/a180f2ccebd2459bf61cb3811af36976
01:35:721 (6) - ends on stronger sound than it started. leads you to start the jumps too early on the weaker sound here 01:36:064 (1) - when you really want the jumps to start on the stronger sound here 01:36:235 (2) - . this rhythm https://imgur.com/a/wchusWf at 01:35:378 (2) - would address this problem by having clicking on strong distinct sounds
01:36:232 (1) - progressively increased the spacing between notes here to better show the climax of the map
I might need to adjust the shape / pattern though.
01:40:264 (1) - could continue the objects instead of the spinner. would be a better conclusion imo