mapped by Sotarks
submitted
ranked
This beatmap was ranked on 27 December 2020!
nominated by Stack and Nevo
New Discussion
Please sign in to post or reply
Discussions
Sort by

Yeah this is a thing.

Now it's obvious that all 3 top difficulties play and almost looks the same that I almost couldn't even tell I was looking at another difficulty revolving the mapset and anyone can see for themselves that

For examples if I may, 00:47:906 - is almost nearly the exact same in reform's difficulty between Armin's with barely much adjustments with a few rotations and sotarks whilst slightly different, neither of the 3 difficulties does this part any sort of justice

I really don't think I may need to give too many examples as I basically would have thousands, with the one above being one of the highest points of the song, to not even do some form of different variety that you have here is quite dissapointing.

And easy way of at least balancing it out is trim massively on the 2 difficulties, adjust the way the jumps are arranged,etc but you as a mapper should already know of this so I do not think I need to describe how you should map so i'll keep it simple.

And considering this:
Do not exploit or abuse existing systems. Following the Ranking Criteria and not trying to circumvent it is a given, and cases of disagreement should be resolved through a Ranking Criteria proposal. Beatmap Nominators should also not repeatedly exploit bugs or reward systems such as score, PP or kudosu.

^ this mapset falls under that category and if you dare say there is some difference, the difference is so marginal that it barely does enough for the seeing eye to agree with as showcased

anyways you probably will disagree but I am not going to let go of this for the sake of consistency and if you have anything against it, we can let this go through mediation and let other bns know what to say around this.

permalink

in the event it gets buried, #2042186 this has a bit of relevant discussion too

permalink

Merry xmas

permalink

Sotarks can't catch a break these days man Sadge :(

permalink

ok. can make changes to my diff, nerf sr, np

permalink

imo this map does not fall under the no pp exploit rule the map that broke the camels back and made the rule exist 1232372#1892477 is like A COMPLETELY different level of content bloat this map with 3 (arguably 2) similar diffs to that sets 12 (at the time)

I mean vetoes are subjective but I highly doubt this map is the kinda thing that rule was put in place to prevent at least in my eyes

I will not lie tho Armin and reforms diffs are VERY similar in a decent amount of places I even went measure by measure #2042186 comparing all three diffs and they definiately have many many many similarites
I think Sotarks diff is dense enough and spaced enough to clearly stand out on its own

3000iq strat say the diffs are similar cuz theres two guinea pigs in the bg nodnodnodnod

permalink

i really don't have the time and the energy for this, either this goes into mediation or may the GDers deal with this and give me changes.

thank you for reminding me how great osu mapping was.

permalink

Next time just Ctrl+H or Ctrl+J the similar diffs, and I guarantee you 90% of BN's will not recognize the similarities.

permalink

Vetoes are now just "things" pog.

Kinda wish the other thread was brought up considering how much Nevo put in to take a better look at literally everything and discuss possible outcomes which could have been suitable for it but unfortunate. Considering the length of the song would this even be a hassle to just rearrange some stuff and call it a day? At least this isn't 3+ diffs of the same thing like the other times.

permalink

If u spent more time on the actual map you wouldn't have to spend as much time on vetoes :)

permalink

@syl I really don't get how sotarks diff is a issue here you never even gave examples you just said "unoriginal low effort content in ranked" and called the three diffs identical with zero time stamps. Granted you didn't veto but you probably should use examples in the future.

permalink

it's not even drama monday yet

permalink

Also may i add that i just personaly think that passive aggressivity just doesnt help anyone here. Instead of insulting someones mapping one could just give a stance

permalink

how's my diff an issue Sylvarus ? iirc the issue here is that the 3 extras are "similar", please keep your passive aggresive attitude for you, thanks.

anyway i'm resolving that, since u told me in PM to resolve it.

permalink

resolved, don't shitpost thanks.

permalink
Marked as resolved by Sotarks

wait, reopening i resolved the wrong post.
please cheri confirm that i can push it again.

permalink
Reopened by Sotarks

resolved, after discussing with cheri

permalink
Marked as resolved by Sotarks

damn aint sylvarus the one spitting facts

permalink

greenhue real

permalink

This set should not have three basically identical pp jump extra diffs. Its just more unoriginal low effort content in ranked, I think one diff is more than enough.

permalink

agree

permalink

Yea

permalink

not agree

permalink
permalink

didnt know people actually cared about this but ill give my opinion on it.

I can kinda understand it if you compare top diff and reform as those are pretty similar to eachother. The comparison with Armin's diff doesn't work as well for me as Armin has way more circular movement in his chorus in contrast to the other 2 which have mostly linear in theirs.

The question is then howmuch sr / difficulty amount should be between diffs that are mapped the same before you would count them as some type of content bloat. you could say that .3 is not enough but thats up to everyone to define for themselves.

I dont really mind getting diffs cut here but I do really wonder what the point of it is

permalink

TLDR: ez solution is to remove reform or nerf it to smth like 5.2ish(if this turns out to be an actual issue)

permalink

damn waef rlly got me there ngl

permalink

the point of this is literally in the expectations for beatmap nominators

"Do not exploit or abuse existing systems. Following the Ranking Criteria and not trying to circumvent it is a given, and cases of disagreement should be resolved through a Ranking Criteria proposal. Beatmap Nominators should also not repeatedly exploit bugs or reward systems such as score, PP or kudosu."

pretty sure what is essentially content bloat of a pp map is counted as exploiting a system?

but yea you can legit just trim armin diff (if ur going by sr) or nerf reform or something of the sorts

edit: i dont really care for pp maps or not, i have literally made some my self, but do think 3 diffs of almost identical mapping is kinda dumb, regardless if pp or not

permalink

also a fun idea might be to just ctrl+g some jumps to squares and call it a day like i did for https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/950289#osu/2044364&m=0 cause apparently thats enough change

permalink

00:32:274 - i was really confused when i saw this on armin's and then switched to reform's lol

removing one diff would be enough or, as always, make them noticeably different from each other, these 3 diffs use really similar patterning through the whole diffs but, to me, armin and reform's are too similar overall

permalink

Yeaaaaa that could work as long as there are noticeable differences

permalink

agree with sylv

permalink

personally the song is kind of joke like and the set is rather low effort altogether. Its hard to say that the mapset host REALLY wants to push this for ranked as it's hard to take the set even semi-seriously, but here we are.

I don't really care if this is ranked or not; I just find it funny we are still on this topic after years of trying to figure out a solution and maps like this always keep coming back.

As for pp mapping technically it's intentionally abusing/exploiting flaws in difficulty calculation to inflate rank. Is this against the rules? At this point its pretty sad going through BNs who nominate a bunch of good/rank-worthy maps getting flamed/kicked over pushing this button once but even among BNs/NAT(etc) there isn't a clear consensus.

And in regards to the similarities, they are clear density difference between Gift and Armin/Reform's and between Armin/Reform's there are clear differences in jump structures. Though I do think some of the general advices to the diffs would be more of an improvement to the map(s)

permalink

This actually made me curious so I decided to waste like 30 minutes and go measure by measure through the diffs

tldr;
armin and reform are very similar sotarks diff is more spaced and more denses and doesnt share like any patterns with the other two diffs.

have fun if you wanna read my measure by measure writeup thingie
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

BLOBWOB! have fun if you wanna rread this

Sotarks diff is definately to me the most different in terms of rhythm, spacing, and actual difficulty
To me Reforms is a easier sotarks diff but is more similar to armin due to the difficulty and density in multiple sections

From the start to 00:10:801 (1) - the 3 maps all have different rhythms for mapping the song similar but considering the song i mean idk what more you would want lol

00:12:064 (1,2,3) - all three diffs do the same rhythm here for the "PlayStation" line understandable

00:13:327 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - all three diffs same rhythm all use two triangles or a star for the jump pattern

00:13:959 (5,6,7) - Sotarks and Armin do the same rhythm and pretty much the same thing Reform does same rhythm but adds in a stacked circle

00:14:590 (1,2,3) - Sotarks and armin do the same 1/1 circle 1/2 rhythm here reform throws has the slider and circle inversed for the snare over the vocal Sotarks mirrors the 1/2 sliders where armin does a blanket

00:15:853 (1,2,3,4,5) - Sotarks is different through use of 3/4th slider past that rhythms are the same armin and rform are pretty much the exact same sharp pattern but its mirrored and in a diifferent spot

00:17:117 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - spacing of sotakrs diff is like double the other two but this measure is same rhythm (reofrm should totally nc the second vocal here) past that its all sharp angle reforms two jump patterns are the same size where armins second one grows in spacing

00:18:380 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - storks rhythm deviates from the others with more dense circle usage and use of back and forth stacked jumps where armin and rform are more normal similar but different Reform mirrors the sliders @00:19:801 (2,3) - to reflect the subtle vocal difference Armin just like maps kinda random shapes shrug

00:19:643 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Storks diff is like completely different with its much heavier 1/4 usage compared to the other two also its spacing reform and armin both just kinda go along with their diffs established spacing the put the triple in a different spot which is kinda neat

00:20:906 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Sotarks has more "dense" rhythm since he doesnt use a 1/1 slider past that yeah this is the same rhyhtm and even patterning since armin and reform both stack the circle

00:22:169 (6,7,8,9,10,11) - Sotarks uses questionable spacing here wont even lie Reform and armin both map the same rhythm reform is more sharp where armin is doing more circule flow like both are using cicular flow but armins is more obvious at least imo

00:23:432 (1,2,3,4) - Stork has biggest spacing doesnt use a stack and spacing the sliders out the most armin spaces them out more than reform and also stacks the circle

00:25:801 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - rhythmwise similar sotarks and reform KINDA do the same thing with like a linear slider pattern that moves vertically but like both are clearly different Armins diff is just like different

00:27:222 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - armin does some shape angled jumps that work down the screen Stoark does some overlapping triangle thingie reform does some stack thing

00:28:327 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Stork and reform do the same kinda thing but storks is more spaced out adn rotated and in a different part of the screen but the rhythm iis the same armin just kinda maps jumps so shrug

00:29:748 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3) - armin does some pseudo star/"N" pattern Reform builds up spacing but its pretty low spacing compared to the other two Sotarks does some "N" jump pattern thast up in the corner and rotated compard to armin

00:31:011 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - mmm the maps are finally less boring to look at now the three diffs effectively do the same thing growing jumps with a ctrl h or ctrl j slider to reflect eh end vocals

00:32:274 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - again pretty much the same between all three diffs sotarks technially has the biggest spacing armins is prob the hardest do to the amount of movement required but ye the same outside sotarks lack of ncs

00:33:538 (1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1,1) - this is more than one measure but like come on All three are effectively the same technialyl reform doesnt use a break I would bet most mappers would map this with the same exact rhythm so shrug

00:42:380 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Sotarks maps the 1/4 more actively reofrm and armin do the same buzz slider i think this is completely fair lol

00:43:643 (1,2,3,4,5) - same rhythm different way of mapping the jump prob down to styles idk

00:44:906 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - armin reform same rhythm sotrk did some other random shit idk armin and reform the jumps are similar its just two triangles reforms first triangle is much more sharper (which is actually something reform consistently does ive noticed)

00:46:169 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - sotarks is doing his own thing rhythmwiser armin reform are pretty much the same thing reforms spacing is like 30% (im guessing) bigger tho

00:47:432 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - reform armin same rhytm same "N" pattern granted its rotated but like shrug Sotarks is just being himself differnt pattern and rhythm

00:48:696 (1,2,3,4,5) - stok differnt rhtyhm with the 3/4 slider and also has the smalelst spacing :3c armin and reform both use a mis of mirrored sliders and simialr angles and spacing for the jumps

00:49:959 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - all same rhythm reform uses a bigger jump to hightlight the "under the tree' line where stok adn armin dont but its all the same abck and forth pattern

00:51:064 (1,2,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,1,1) - they all map the same part different sotarks uses 1/3 sliders armin is a repeat and reform is all active circles

permalink

so having gone through the difficulties and hearing this song more times than the people who mapped it I can say! Reform and Armins diffs are pretty similar

I still think the mapset having 2 diffs that are similar is completely fine and not a real issue since its 2 and not like 10 diffs but shruggggggggg

Sotarks diff is definitely the stand out looking at them all it rarely shared the same patterns and rhythms and when it did it was usually like double the spacing

Reform and Armin had some legit patterns that were the same but rotated but I think its way more down to like mapping style similarities than copying of each other like the repeat usage of the "N" kinda jump pattern

To bor's thing This map prob isnt like some crazy high effort set that has super crazy amounts of dedication behind it. I'm pretty sure Sotarks noticed it was almost Christmas and noticed he would break his yearly tradition if he didnt rank a christmas themed song. I dont inherently think this is a bad thing but to each there own. I doubt he'll care to even contest the veto or whatever this is

Im also indifferent to if the map gets ranked or not

Does the map add anything to the ranked section? Well it would be a newly ranked Sotarks Christmas set and some people do actually care for things like that so I don't think this set hurts or anything lol.

ANYWAY i tried to be as unbiased as possible if anyone actually goes through the three diffs like i did poke me :3c
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tldr;
read bors last paragraph

permalink

also jsut to add no there wasnt a real point in me doing this I just wanted to go through and look at every single object

I HATE THIS SONG NOW

permalink

changes:

  • reform's diff 00:32:274 made these into horizontals
  • armin's diff 00:32:274 made these into squares, and 00:47:748 changed the flow of that pattern
  • my diff didn't change.

now all the similarities are gone.

please check again and confirm so we can push it at least in time for 26th december.

permalink

yo time to go measure by measure part 2

/s

permalink
  • added some 3/4 rhythm to make it a bit more different
permalink

sylvarus is ok with the changes, so i'm resolving this since he told me to resolve in PM.

permalink
Marked as resolved by Sotarks

yo uh title is wrong

according to original yt vid, the F in "for" is supposed to be capitalized: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rx3dDigwDM it also has it in sytho's ranked set https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1291109#osu/2679998

permalink

agree

permalink

F

permalink

Unfortunate

permalink

whoops

permalink

tes

permalink
Marked as resolved by Sotarks

why have "for Christmas" in tags? would remove since it's already in the title :)

permalink

ye

permalink
Marked as resolved by Sotarks
/